April 17, 2014, 02:12:41 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: MIGRATION IS COMPLETE - ONLY FORUM ISSUE I AM AWARE OF IS AVATARS - YOU MAY NEED TO RE-ADD YOURS
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 - 3/1/08  (Read 97189 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Blonde
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9286



« Reply #620 on: March 01, 2008, 02:32:24 PM »

"None of us here are detectives, CSI, or DNA experts. "

Sorry But How Do You Know their are No CSI, or DNA experts HERE
Logged

Woman must not depend upon the protection of man, but must be taught to protect herself.
Jo-An
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 418



« Reply #621 on: March 01, 2008, 02:32:38 PM »

Sorry if this has been posted today, I am still catching up. This is a rough tranny of an article posted today at>
http://www.crimesite.nl/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6547


~~~

Perhaps one of our nice Dutch posters can go to the link above and give us a clearer translation?.....Thanks in advance, if you can.


Here you go!

Joran van der Sloot in the looney bin

It almost escaped our attention that Joran van der Sloot has been put in the looney bin.
That is what Bon Dia, an Aruban newspaper is saying. The paper based this on a source close to Joran van der Sloot. His family denies. That is not so strange, that they deny it because up till now they have denied pretty much everything that had anything to do with their son's actions.
The paper also mentions that Joran flipped and that the threats (surprise surprise!) would have gotten to him. Poor guy. Could he be a human being of flesh and blood after all?

If the story is true, it's very interesting. Moreso because considering his calender age he has acted  and reacted very criminally grown-up until the end. Could something finally have snapped in his twisted mind? Maybe we should be grateful to Patrick van der Eem for offering him all these joints. It's known, and the experts can confirm that, that smoking pot for the mentally chalenged, can work as a catalyst and can not seldomly lead to psychological decompensation.

Now we have to wait for a leak from Joran's shrinks who will definately try to pull the big secret from him, the secret that has captivated almost everybody since the drive that Patrick and Joran took. Because that Joran caries a terrible secret with him, that has become very clear to even the biggest fool. In any case we'll have tot wait and see what is true about this and whit smoke will rise from the mental institution so that the head of the Aruban justice department can say the words "We got him".
Logged
sharon
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 3217



« Reply #622 on: March 01, 2008, 02:33:13 PM »

Shar - it was the 48 hours program and we do not have that video posted any longer. It was in a bucket that was closed due to copy right issues. Carpe probably still has it and could prolly repost it if I asked. I hate to bother him with this though. I'm sure there is a transcript around somewhere.

Rob -- don't bother Carpe. I'm sure I can find the transcript -- or references to it in 'cache' on the net somewhere .

I also remember Meri posting (blogging?) somewhere about Dompig's 48 Hours comments -- and the Raytheon November 2005 information. I can visualize the headline. lol. My research is so lame  And my memory is beginning to follow. 

I'll probably be able to find it later 
Logged

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world.  Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has!" Margaret Mead
Nut44x4
Maine - USA
Asst Moderator
Monkey Mega Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 18000


...and Injustice for most


« Reply #623 on: March 01, 2008, 02:33:56 PM »

The only thing I can think of is the Persistence will leave Aruba for the safety of International waters and an announcement will be made. Other than that - I have nothing.


Again, I am a bit stunned, but I would like to thank the searchers and all on board the Persistence for everything they have done...may you have a safe voyage home.
Logged

Brothers and Sisters, I bid you beware/Of giving your heart to a dog to tear  -- Rudyard Kipling
Bearlyhere
Global Moderator
Monkey Mega Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 17111



« Reply #624 on: March 01, 2008, 02:34:36 PM »

Gerold Dompig States in 48 Hours Interview that Radar System in Full-proof. REALLY?
 
Gerold Dompig during his CBS 48 Hours interview stated that experiments were done with dummies being thrown over board in the water; every time they drifted back to shore. The only way this would not occur was if a boat sailed more than two miles off shore. Dompig then stated, “a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape. Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished“.

Cruz says he and his team have tossed a dummy overboard many times, but that in every case, it drifted back to shore. The only way that wouldn’t happen is if a boat sailed more than two miles offshore — a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape.

Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished.

That is quite a different story compared to the Amigoe article back in November 2005 entitled, “Radar-system not watertight”.

ORANJESTAD — The radar-system that monitors the coastline is not watertight. People still manage to enter Aruba illegally from sea. This was stated by the general commander of Warda nos Costa, Gerold Dompig. His statement challenges the words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes (MEP) who closed a lease contract for the radar equipment last year.

In June, July and August 2004 the radars were put into operation as a test. Vessels were placed out at sea to test the radar’s reach. The results were positive and the lease contract was signed till August 2007. A year later it becomes apparent that the radar’s efficiency is somewhat different in reality compared to the theoretical press presentation of Raytheon. Project coordinator Kelly confirms Dompig’s statement that high waves influence the efficiency of the radar. “The radar works well, but not during all types of weather. Heavy rainfall causes all kinds of spots on the screen, which makes it difficult to discern small boats. But, then again, no radar is full proof.”

Which could explain why in November 2005, Aruba entered into a new contract with Raytheon. However, Dompig stated in his interview that the radar of the night of May 30, 2005 would “have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished”. That seems to be disputed by the Amigoe article.

November 28, 2005: Raytheon Canada Wins Contract for Coastal Surveillance in the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba

The system will enable the precision monitoring of marine traffic in the waters around the Dutch Caribbean. It will be used primarily for search and rescue and drug interdiction, but it will also help combat illegal
immigration.

Terma Radar Systems selected supplier of SCANTER 2001 Radar Systems for Netherlands Antilles

The prime contract was entered between Raytheon and the Royal Netherlands Navy in November 2005. The coastal surveillance system comprising eight Terma radars, two control centres and network equipment, will be delivered by mid-2006.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/03/28/gerold-dompig-states-in-48-hours-interview-that-radar-system-in-full-proof-really/



It's a shame the Sloots found their way back.

 
Logged

There is no foot too small that it cannot leave an imprint on this world.<br />Time spent with monkeys is never wasted.<br />I believe in miracles!
Nut44x4
Maine - USA
Asst Moderator
Monkey Mega Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 18000


...and Injustice for most


« Reply #625 on: March 01, 2008, 02:35:04 PM »

The only thing I can think of is the Persistence will leave Aruba for the safety of International waters and an announcement will be made. Other than that - I have nothing.

This is more like it.I think they already have Natalee...JMO


I hope so many of you who think this are correct, but I just don't 'feel' it... 
Logged

Brothers and Sisters, I bid you beware/Of giving your heart to a dog to tear  -- Rudyard Kipling
AZSunny
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 4057



« Reply #626 on: March 01, 2008, 02:35:06 PM »

The only thing I can think of is the Persistence will leave Aruba for the safety of International waters and an announcement will be made. Other than that - I have nothing.

This is more like it.I think they already have Natalee...JMO

One can only hope.

I am probably grasping at straws here, but with the homeland security landing in Aruba, Air force 2, and the search being called off, it appears that something may indeed be up.  Can all of this be a coincidence?
Logged

~~We cannot direct the wind but we can adjust the sails ~~
wreck
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7659



« Reply #627 on: March 01, 2008, 02:36:16 PM »

The only thing I can think of is the Persistence will leave Aruba for the safety of International waters and an announcement will be made. Other than that - I have nothing.

This is more like it.I think they already have Natalee...JMO

Ditto....wonder if Dateline has an exclusive on the ...rest of the story...
Well, you know my opinion -- I'm still heartened by how OE responded to me yesterday. He said in response to my "already have Natalee theory"
Quote
I like the way you think, wreck
To me -- that was totally out of character for him to put any "credence" in anyone's speculation.
Logged

Bearlyhere
Global Moderator
Monkey Mega Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 17111



« Reply #628 on: March 01, 2008, 02:38:53 PM »

Sorry if this has been posted today, I am still catching up. This is a rough tranny of an article posted today at>
http://www.crimesite.nl/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6547


~~~

Perhaps one of our nice Dutch posters can go to the link above and give us a clearer translation?.....Thanks in advance, if you can.


Here you go!

Joran van der Sloot in the looney bin

It almost escaped our attention that Joran van der Sloot has been put in the looney bin.
That is what Bon Dia, an Aruban newspaper is saying. The paper based this on a source close to Joran van der Sloot. His family denies. That is not so strange, that they deny it because up till now they have denied pretty much everything that had anything to do with their son's actions.
The paper also mentions that Joran flipped and that the threats (surprise surprise!) would have gotten to him. Poor guy. Could he be a human being of flesh and blood after all?

If the story is true, it's very interesting. Moreso because considering his calender age he has acted  and reacted very criminally grown-up until the end. Could something finally have snapped in his twisted mind? Maybe we should be grateful to Patrick van der Eem for offering him all these joints. It's known, and the experts can confirm that, that smoking pot for the mentally chalenged, can work as a catalyst and can not seldomly lead to psychological decompensation.

Now we have to wait for a leak from Joran's shrinks who will definately try to pull the big secret from him, the secret that has captivated almost everybody since the drive that Patrick and Joran took. Because that Joran caries a terrible secret with him, that has become very clear to even the biggest fool. In any case we'll have tot wait and see what is true about this and whit smoke will rise from the mental institution so that the head of the Aruban justice department can say the words "We got him".

Thanks, Jo-An.
Logged

There is no foot too small that it cannot leave an imprint on this world.<br />Time spent with monkeys is never wasted.<br />I believe in miracles!
Red
Administrator
Monkey Junky
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4309



WWW
« Reply #629 on: March 01, 2008, 02:40:09 PM »

Just Posted by LegallyLex at BFN:





    Re: The Search for Natalee Holloway Blogspot
« Reply #859 on: Today at 12:30:54 PM »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is with sadness that I am reporting to everyone that the Persistence leaves Aruba tomorrow heading for home.  As you are aware, the side scan sonar search is complete.  There are many many targets for the ROV to look at.  Sadly, this will not happen with the Persistence.  The main reason is the lack of funding.  This combined with the winter rough weather makes it difficult.  John and the crew thank all of your for your help and many blessings and prayers you have provided.  Please continue these prayers until the Persistence makes it back to port in New Iberia.

Thanks everyone! You are the best!

.

Wow, that was sort of quick? 

Edited to add:  What I mean is there was just a media blitz about needing donations and I know there were many emails sent from BFN and SM members.  Just seems like they didn't wait to see if donations would be coming in.


I agree, plus it takes time to gather funds of the magnitude they are looking for and didn't give much advanced notice. Wow....I do not know what to say. Sad
So,  who will be looking at the targets? ALE? Rolling Eyes
That is like leaving the birdcage open w/ the cat in the house...
This can't be happening. After all the hard work, time, money, tears/pain, anticipation, etc., please do not let ALE handle the rest...

ABC Interview with Louis Schafer on Thursday

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=5988951

I will just come out and say it only because I am shocked at the quick pace of the termination of the search.

WHO THE HELL WAITS UNTIL LAST MINUTE TO ASK FOR HELP IN DONATIONS ONLY TO ONE DAY LATER LEAVE ANYHOW!!!

You could have least given it a chance.

I am sorry, but that makes no sense coming from a business man like Louis Schafer. Long ago he could have contacted SM and done a media blitz that would have donated funds. Also, people of major means could have been asked.

However, for the most part this type of money is not gained thru public solicitation ... its gained thru millionaires private Rolodex.

I hope there is another more positive reason.
Logged
sharon
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 3217



« Reply #630 on: March 01, 2008, 02:40:22 PM »

Thank you Pita. {{{heart}}}

It was driving me crazy not remembering   

Now my memory has been refreshed.

And now I remember why I didn't buy the June 7 date. imo.
Logged

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world.  Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has!" Margaret Mead
Tater
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 2071



« Reply #631 on: March 01, 2008, 02:40:26 PM »

The only thing I can think of is the Persistence will leave Aruba for the safety of International waters and an announcement will be made. Other than that - I have nothing.

This is more like it.I think they already have Natalee...JMO

Ditto....wonder if Dateline has an exclusive on the ...rest of the story...
Well, you know my opinion -- I'm still heartened by how OE responded to me yesterday. He said in response to my "already have Natalee theory"
Quote
I like the way you think, wreck
To me -- that was totally out of character for him to put any "credence" in anyone's speculation.

Agree 100 percent!!!
Logged

Proverbs 3:5
  Trust in the LORD with all thine heart;
         and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Destiny
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 4496


unwatched kids will be given sugar + a free puppy


« Reply #632 on: March 01, 2008, 02:42:43 PM »

The only thing I can think of is the Persistence will leave Aruba for the safety of International waters and an announcement will be made. Other than that - I have nothing.

This is more like it.I think they already have Natalee...JMO

Ditto....wonder if Dateline has an exclusive on the ...rest of the story...
SeaSearcher,

Not to worry, it is always posted here if it appeared in the media compliments of Carpe.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9.180

Look around Replies 193, 194.  There is likely even a transcript of the program as well.

Thanks for the link Anna...video's were really interesting and that cage looks to be
more like 9' x 9' x 3' +/-  The story seemed to cut short as if there was nothing in the
cage.

At the risk of backlash..does anyone else see a pair of sneakers in 2 of the pictures ?
Maybe someone has already said this..
I don't like to speculate mush without some facts but that is what jumped right out
at me as soon as I looked at them..Ive looked and zoomed and looked again...still
looks like sneakers to me

Thanks again Anna

YES...YES...YES!!! I saw sneakers too...that's why I was asking so many questions about Urine's shoes last night Wink  I also saw a leg bone protruding out from the end of what I *think* is a large clear..now whitish plascit bag...when I posted this...that's when OE posted we should not be discussing what we *think* we see...that it would render true analysis of the photos by *experts* invalid in some way....JMOO
Logged

I Stand With The Girl *NATALEE HOLLOWAY*

Aruba Beware *AN ANGEL LIKE NO OTHER* has fallen amongst you....may you know the fury of HEAVEN!
Bladerunner
Monkey Junky Jr.
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 502



« Reply #633 on: March 01, 2008, 02:43:56 PM »

Just Posted by LegallyLex at BFN:





    Re: The Search for Natalee Holloway Blogspot
« Reply #859 on: Today at 12:30:54 PM »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is with sadness that I am reporting to everyone that the Persistence leaves Aruba tomorrow heading for home.  As you are aware, the side scan sonar search is complete.  There are many many targets for the ROV to look at.  Sadly, this will not happen with the Persistence.  The main reason is the lack of funding.  This combined with the winter rough weather makes it difficult.  John and the crew thank all of your for your help and many blessings and prayers you have provided.  Please continue these prayers until the Persistence makes it back to port in New Iberia.

Thanks everyone! You are the best!

.

Wow, that was sort of quick? 

Edited to add:  What I mean is there was just a media blitz about needing donations and I know there were many emails sent from BFN and SM members.  Just seems like they didn't wait to see if donations would be coming in.

I am a confused Monkey ...

Umm ... You know this really does not make any sense at all. I say this with the caveat that no one was more excited to hear that the deep water search was finally going to happen. I had heard rumblings of it long before it was ever announced and then it got delayed again until the RV Persistence arrived in Aruba. From all accounts the search lasted longer than what was most likely ever anticipated. It seems like they have been there forever doing yeoman's work searching for Natalee. That is to be commended and a huge thanks.

Now comes my questions. It was about a week ago that donations were first asked for. At no point prior to the Persistence leaving Louisiana during its voyage to Aruba or during the search were donations requested. Not even during the Date Line show was there one reference to donations or a ticker running at the bottom asking for donations, which I personally think was a mistake.

I guess my question is ... it would seem that the deep water search was never intended to be funded by donations. It was with up front money. I know this may be the business consultant in me but if that were the case, none of this makes any sense. With up front money one does not plan a search with available funds only to get 50%, 60% or 70% thru the task at hand.

Sure things happen and unforeseen variables occur. However, there are always contingency plans put in place. No one just looks up one day and sees $0.00 in their bank account, asks for donations and then 1 week later ceases actions.

I am a bit puzzled by all this. No one can count on donations to fund a search that is already going on like this. The deep water search in Aruba is not a normal missing persons search, to say the least. They just asked for donations and in some cases checks are still in the mail and have not been received, yet the search is over. So why did anyone ask for donations if they never gave the donations a chance?  And the search seemed to be targeted to be over on Friday.

I guess my question is why was the search not planned knowing that there was a finite amount of money and days available? That would mean that you cant just map everything and not further investigate the hits.

Imagine building a home knowing that you have $200K to spend. Between foundation, framing, electric and plumbing you are at $195K into your budget. Ut-oh. Who would do that? Why would the most important part of investigating hits not be accounted for in the search plan, knowing there was a limit to time and $'s?

I am just a bit puzzled. Actually I am really puzzled. 

I really thank them for their efforts, but I am puzzled.

I agree totally, Red.  I for one mailed another check last week that has not cleared the bank yet. 

 

Indeed, there is something going on here that is either going to be amazing, or, very dissapointing. A project of this magnitude does not simply come to an abrupt stop because the money suddenly is gone. As others have mentioned, as the project moves forward--in this case the mapping--and delays mount, eating into your budget, you would adjust your target area accordingly so that you would still have a chance to visullay inspect the most likely targets with the rover. In any event, a full search, including the mapping and visual rover inspection would be expected to be completed by the team regardless of the money situation, since the overall project would/should be scaled back given the burn rate of cash to allow that to happen.

I agree, confusing!
Logged
Blonde
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9286



« Reply #634 on: March 01, 2008, 02:46:43 PM »

Thank You Pita your the bomb

<snip>
Just 300 yards away from the boat launch is a series of fishing huts that have become infamous on the island. In sworn statements, the three lead suspects in Natalee's disappearance -- Joran van der Sloot, Satish and Deepak Kalpoe -- told police that they left Natalee at those fishing huts the night of her disapperance.

But the news gets worse. According to police the huts were broken into around the time of her disappearence; a large knife and a huge steel fishing cage were stolen. Publicly, the police aren't linking the events. But they've asked Tim Miller to bring a deep sea search team to scan the entire coast near the boat launch -- keeping an eye out for a fishing cage.

http://www.amw.com/features/feature_story_detail.cfm?id=827
Logged

Woman must not depend upon the protection of man, but must be taught to protect herself.
sharon
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 3217



« Reply #635 on: March 01, 2008, 02:46:45 PM »

Thank you Pita. {{{heart}}}

It was driving me crazy not remembering   

Now my memory has been refreshed.

And now I remember why I didn't buy the June 7 date. imo.



"Project coordinator Kelly confirms Dompig’s statement that high waves influence the efficiency of the radar. “The radar works well, but not during all types of weather. Heavy rainfall causes all kinds of spots on the screen, which makes it difficult to discern small boats. But, then again, no radar is full proof.”

It was project coordinator Kelly -- not dumpig.

Which night did it rain?

.
Logged

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world.  Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has!" Margaret Mead
Nut44x4
Maine - USA
Asst Moderator
Monkey Mega Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 18000


...and Injustice for most


« Reply #636 on: March 01, 2008, 02:46:54 PM »

"None of us here are detectives, CSI, or DNA experts. "

Sorry But How Do You Know their are No CSI, or DNA experts HERE



LOL Blonde, thank you! I was going to ask the same thing.... Wink
One never knows when on the internet, eh? Wink
Logged

Brothers and Sisters, I bid you beware/Of giving your heart to a dog to tear  -- Rudyard Kipling
MumInOhio
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6111


« Reply #637 on: March 01, 2008, 02:47:18 PM »

The only thing I can think of is the Persistence will leave Aruba for the safety of International waters and an announcement will be made. Other than that - I have nothing.

This is more like it.I think they already have Natalee...JMO

One can only hope.

I am probably grasping at straws here, but with the homeland security landing in Aruba, Air force 2, and the search being called off, it appears that something may indeed be up.  Can all of this be a coincidence?

I did a quick search on the peeps who are in Aruba...saw Legal eagles and a Justice Dept Lawyer connection...ran out of time...maybe some-one needs to take a good look at those names and their field of expertise....Sorry...I should have had a really good look earlier. It just seemed to fit with the Customs Pre-clearance when I looked.
Logged
wreck
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7659



« Reply #638 on: March 01, 2008, 02:47:39 PM »

The only thing I can think of is the Persistence will leave Aruba for the safety of International waters and an announcement will be made. Other than that - I have nothing.

This is more like it.I think they already have Natalee...JMO

Ditto....wonder if Dateline has an exclusive on the ...rest of the story...
Well, you know my opinion -- I'm still heartened by how OE responded to me yesterday. He said in response to my "already have Natalee theory"
Quote
I like the way you think, wreck
To me -- that was totally out of character for him to put any "credence" in anyone's speculation.

Agree 100 percent!!!
One step further --
I KNOW he understood the points I was making -- he then added "what do you then make of Mos' statement?"
I think he was hinting at something "amiss" from Aruba and Mos.
JMO
Logged

hotping
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 3747


All Prayers Will Be Answered in Time!


« Reply #639 on: March 01, 2008, 02:47:48 PM »

The only thing I can think of is the Persistence will leave Aruba for the safety of International waters and an announcement will be made. Other than that - I have nothing.

This is more like it.I think they already have Natalee...JMO

Ditto....wonder if Dateline has an exclusive on the ...rest of the story...
SeaSearcher,

Not to worry, it is always posted here if it appeared in the media compliments of Carpe.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9.180

Look around Replies 193, 194.  There is likely even a transcript of the program as well.

Thanks for the link Anna...video's were really interesting and that cage looks to be
more like 9' x 9' x 3' +/-  The story seemed to cut short as if there was nothing in the
cage.

At the risk of backlash..does anyone else see a pair of sneakers in 2 of the pictures ?
Maybe someone has already said this..
I don't like to speculate mush without some facts but that is what jumped right out
at me as soon as I looked at them..Ive looked and zoomed and looked again...still
looks like sneakers to me

Thanks again Anna

YES...YES...YES!!! I saw sneakers too...that's why I was asking so many questions about Urine's shoes last night Wink  I also saw a leg bone protruding out from the end of what I *think* is a large clear..now whitish plascit bag...when I posted this...that's when OE posted we should not be discussing what we *think* we see...that it would render true analysis of the photos by *experts* invalid in some way....JMOO
Destiny....I saw them also......and it sure looks like a skull to Me....
Logged

In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Use of this web site in any manner signifies unconditional acceptance, without exception, of our terms of use.
Powered by SMF 1.1.13 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines LLC
 
Page created in 0.176 seconds with 20 queries.