Natalee Case Discussion #738 3/1 - 3/3/08

[Nut44x4]

So the post that JE brought here from GretaWire sounds very plausible:

Comment by Norman
March 2nd, 2008 at 2:47 pm

Mr. Cheney was not on Aruba, only his crew and security. Mr. Cheney went with another private
aircraft to visit Colombia? Air Force 2 left the Island this morning to Colombia. Air Force 2 stayed
on the island fora few days for security reason unknown.

So 2 AF 2 were there and 1 went to Columbia and one stayed in Aruba and Chaney used a private plane to go to Columbia, yet his office said he is in the White House or his office> And AF 2 is simply a control tag to indicate the VP is a passenger?I am confused:)

I was confused too, but I refused to admit it, lol.

[jackb]

I just called The White House. Cheney is not on Aruba.

Call for yourselves if you don't believe me.

Comments:   202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX:             202-456-2461

Yeah, I am sure that weekend temp is going to have information about the VP. It would be a breach of security for anyone to give out information on the whereabouts of senior members of the WH.  They do not give out the itinerary of these people, especially if a visit is unannounced.  It makes security impossible. 

[klaasend]

I think the trap more likely had drug remains than human remains.  I think the Persistence crew uncovered something Aruba didn't want them to find out about.

[bluwaters]

I don't know if this says anything of interest. Are there any translators with us today?

Kustwacht voor de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba
http://www.kustwacht.an/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=230&Itemid=42

Commando overdracht kustwachtcutter Panter op Aruba (07-07-2006)       
   
Gisteren in de ochtenduren vond het commando overdracht van de kustwachtcutter Panter plaats bij het kustwacht steunpunt te Aruba in het bijzijn van genodigden en kustwachtmedewerkers. De huidige gezagvoerder, LTZ2OC Paul Bijleveld die vertrekt na twee en een half jaar naar Nederland om een andere functie te vervullen, terwijl LTZ2OC Frank Oudhuis, de nieuwe gezagvoerder zal worden voor de Panter.De plaatsvervangend directeur de heer Peter de Witte prees gezagvoerder Bijleveld voor de vele successen van de Panter in het kader van oa. drugsbestrijding en illegale immigratie. Enkele voorbeelden hiervan zijn de onderschepping van 400 kilo cocaïne ten zuiden van Curaçao in april, onderschepping van 800 kilo cocaïne op 100 mijl ten noorden van Bonaire in een gezamenlijke actie, onderschepping van marihuana op de sleepboot 'Troll' op Sint Maarten en ook recentelijk redding van het brandend barkje 'Gaviota III' nabij Aruba. Hij kreeg hiervoor ook een beloning. Paul genoot ook van het volste vertrouwen van zijn bemanning die hij ook op zijn beurt beloonde voor het goede werk die zij verricht hebben. Aan de nieuwe gezagvoerder LTZ2OC Frank Oudhuis werd alle succes toegewenst in zijn nieuwe functie. Frank Oudhuis heeft in het verleden ook met het fregat de Hr. Ms. van Speijk gevaren en is niet onbekend met de West.

Hi Bluwater!

Just just went out to diner with friends and now quickly catching up before going to bed (it's after 11pm over here).  I saw that no-one responded to this and I may know why... it's really not that interesting...
It's about the old captain of the coastguard cutter Panter leaving and the new captain being introduced. They talk a little bit of all the things that the Panter did under the command of the retiring captain.
So really nothing to do with this case.


Welkom aan de nieuwe Nederlandse aapjes hier!
Ik ben hier ook pas sinds kort aan boord, hoe meer zielen hoe meer vreugd!
(for all you Americans: I'm just welcoming the new Dutch monkeys here!!  )

TY Jo-An!
I figured that it was meaningless when no one replied.
I appreciate your answer.

[Tater]

Wait.... I just watched it again and Hansen says " the day they FIRST saw that trap, Christmas Eve......" and the gentlemen are watching a video with the date and timestamp reading 12/29.

" The next day,........ Hans Mos came on board to see what they had"  and they show footage of the vessel heading out, talks of double rainbows and dolphins leading the way and then another video with the timestamp of 12/30/


no mention of Christmas Day.
Does anyone know what gives with this discrepancy?

The divers giving the "thumbs down" on Dateline was staged. Apparently, The Persistence went BACK on the 29th to make the "recovery." JMO

Is it possible that there were two traps? 

I got my dates messed up -- but my speculation is the same -- what we saw on "Dateline" was staged.

Not to keep harping on it, but ............. If it was staged, why were we so focused on those 6 photos with the "Staged" timestamps and why did the posting and discussions get such a reaction from OE????? AND casa!........ someone sent them because, ostensibly, they had import. Or was it to both throw a bone of divergence AND off the track of what was really happening? Like a magician makes the audience look one way while the other hand is feinting.

And we are left speculating once again.I agree,something is up with all this hush hush stuff.Hopefully at some point,someone will come in here and clean the cage and sweep away all the nonsense and give us the truth..I personally could careless why the plane is in Aruba. I doubt it has a thing to do with Natalee..JMO

[wreck]

I think the trap more likely had drug remains than human remains.  I think the Persistence crew uncovered something Aruba didn't want them to find out about.

that is logical, but it just doesn't add up to how The Persistence crew reacted to it or why they would e-mail 6 pics of it the Dave/Robin. They were perturbed about their release. If it was nothing -- just say so.

[private eye]

You know, a successful investigation was the Scott Peterson case, and in that case it was transparent. The announcement that the body was found was immediate, to the public, and nothing was harmed. I am a little concerned that the Persistence has adopted the byline of the assholes who caused this problem in the first place, the Aruban police, prosecutors, and judges in Aruba. The local henchmen. Now all of a sudden the Persistence is claiming we are the problem and the Aruban prosecutor, and police are their real partners in crime investigations.

I am not stupid, and I can tell sitting here that those assholes have not been or ever will be on our team. They have been the problem.

[bluwaters]

I think the trap more likely had drug remains than human remains.  I think the Persistence crew uncovered something Aruba didn't want them to find out about.

that is logical, but it just doesn't add up to how The Persistence crew reacted to it or why they would e-mail 6 pics of it the Dave/Robin. They were perturbed about their release. If it was nothing -- just say so.

I think that Persistence both drug and human remains. They were not supposed to find either.
Why did Aruba allow Persistence to search if there was incriminating evidence in that area?

[Nut44x4]

Destiny, you must have spoken with Baghdad Bob.

[Blue Moon]

I think the trap more likely had drug remains than human remains.  I think the Persistence crew uncovered something Aruba didn't want them to find out about.

that is logical, but it just doesn't add up to how The Persistence crew reacted to it or why they would e-mail 6 pics of it the Dave/Robin. They were perturbed about their release. If it was nothing -- just say so.

"If they find that chit you will get 15 years".

[teacat]

Destiny, you must have spoken with Baghdad Bob.

hahahahahahahahah that's a keeper!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tater]

I think the trap more likely had drug remains than human remains.  I think the Persistence crew uncovered something Aruba didn't want them to find out about.

that is logical, but it just doesn't add up to how The Persistence crew reacted to it or why they would e-mail 6 pics of it the Dave/Robin. They were perturbed about their release. If it was nothing -- just say so.

I think that Persistence both drug and human remains. They were not supposed to find either.
Why did Aruba allow Persistence to search if there was incriminating evidence in that area?

I think there was human remains in the trap and no drugs at all.Somehow I just don't see someone hiding dope in 90 feet of water.Just seems plain silly to me.Maybe the remains were that of a drug trader that was taken out but the dope thing I just don't buy..

[bluwaters]

You know, a successful investigation was the Scott Peterson case, and in that case it was transparent. The announcement that the body was found was immediate, to the public, and nothing was harmed. I am a little concerned that the Persistence has adopted the byline of the assholes who caused this problem in the first place, the Aruban police, prosecutors, and judges in Aruba. The local henchmen. Now all of a sudden the Persistence is claiming we are the problem and the Aruban prosecutor, and police are their real partners in crime investigations.

I am not stupid, and I can tell sitting here that those assholes have not been or ever will be on our team. They have been the problem.

Because maybe that's the game that Persistence has to play in order to get the job done?
OE did seen upset over the pics, but he came back and posted afterwards and was really quite nice.
Now that war may be brewing 40 miles off Aruba's shore, it makes me rethink all of the info from Persistence this past week.

[Tamikosmom]

Wait.... I just watched it again and Hansen says " the day they FIRST saw that trap, Christmas Eve......" and the gentlemen are watching a video with the date and timestamp reading 12/29.

" The next day,........ Hans Mos came on board to see what they had"  and they show footage of the vessel heading out, talks of double rainbows and dolphins leading the way and then another video with the timestamp of 12/30/


no mention of Christmas Day.
Does anyone know what gives with this discrepancy?

The divers giving the "thumbs down" on Dateline was staged. Apparently, The Persistence went BACK on the 29th to make the "recovery." JMO

Is it possible that there were two traps? 

I got my dates messed up -- but my speculation is the same -- what we saw on "Dateline" was staged.

Not to keep harping on it, but ............. If it was staged, why were we so focused on those 6 photos with the "Staged" timestamps and why did the posting and discussions get such a reaction from OE????? AND casa!........ someone sent them because, ostensibly, they had import. Or was it to both throw a bone of divergence AND off the track of what was really happening? Like a magician makes the audience look one way while the other hand is feinting.

You are misundestanding. I think the divers "giving the thumbs down" was staged as to not give away what they really found. The photos are REAL and perhaps really do show remains.

Wreck ... if Tim Miller ... Dave Holloway and ... Beth Holloway staged the following deception ... then Tamikomom's unwavering trust of these three for almost three years has been negated.

Wreck ... silence regarding aspects of an investigation is where it is at ... not lies ... not a collaborated deception on American  DATELINE.  A charade to deceive was not necessary.

I give Tim Miller ... Dave Holloway and ... Beth Twitty Hollloway ... the benefit of the doubt.  They were all speaking the truth ... there was nothing connected to Natalee Holloway in that enormous cage/trap.

I am done!

Janet

+++++++++++++


The search for Natalee Holloway
It's the story you haven't heard: the tale of two parents who, even now, willgo anywhere -- and endure anything -- to find answers.

TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

On Dec. 30, off the coast of Aruba, divers from the Aruban police force and the research vessel Persistence were about to make a crucial dive on a promising target in the search for Natalee Holloway.
 
The researchers had discovered a fish trap about 90 feet below the surface in almost the exact spot search expert Tim Miller had theorized Natalee’s body might be.

Team leader Tim Trahan suited up to join the Aruban police divers. As Tim Miller wished him well, the divers hit the water and the ROV was sent down to capture what would happen for everyone watching on board.

(On the boat) Brandon: We have visual on divers and target.

Slowly the divers worked their way down to the trap. They had been instructed to give a thumbs up or thumbs down.  The atmosphere in the survey room was tense, and nerves were raw as Miller, the Aruban authorities and the crew of the Persistence waited for word of what exactly was in the trap. The divers approached the target and signaled above. And then...

(On the boat) No it's thumbs down. Negative, not it.

Crushing disappointment.

(On the boat) Tim Miller: Divers coming up right now. I don't know it looked as promising today as it did last night or before.

Miller: Nothing?

Trahan: No.

Chris Hansen: That had to be a crushing blow.

Tim Miller: It was a crushing blow.
 
Now Tim Miller had to deliver that same crushing blow to Natalee’s parents.

Chris Hansen: How hard is it for you to dial their numbers and tell them that this in fact is not the break in the case we-- we hoped for?

Tim Miller: Probably one of the hardest calls I ever made. Probably one of the hardest … probably should have never made the first one. But everything looked right at the time.

Natalee’s father was at home in Mississippi when the call came.

Chris Hansen: What was it like for you to, once again, have a setback?

Dave Holloway: That's probably about the time that-- the chest pains intensified to an extreme. I mean, how many times can I take this?

Beth Holloway: You know, it's a disappointment. But, you have to look at the magnitude and the sacrifices being made even to get to that point.

Chris Hansen: You didn't know these folks before this happened. What do they represent to you now?
 
Dave Holloway: They represent heroes to me.
 
To be sure there was no relevant evidence, material from the trap was given to the FBI.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

[Bladerunner]

Wait.... I just watched it again and Hansen says " the day they FIRST saw that trap, Christmas Eve......" and the gentlemen are watching a video with the date and timestamp reading 12/29.

" The next day,........ Hans Mos came on board to see what they had"  and they show footage of the vessel heading out, talks of double rainbows and dolphins leading the way and then another video with the timestamp of 12/30/


no mention of Christmas Day.
Does anyone know what gives with this discrepancy?

The divers giving the "thumbs down" on Dateline was staged. Apparently, The Persistence went BACK on the 29th to make the "recovery." JMO

Is it possible that there were two traps? 

I got my dates messed up -- but my speculation is the same -- what we saw on "Dateline" was staged.

Not to keep harping on it, but ............. If it was staged, why were we so focused on those 6 photos with the "Staged" timestamps and why did the posting and discussions get such a reaction from OE????? AND casa!........ someone sent them because, ostensibly, they had import. Or was it to both throw a bone of divergence AND off the track of what was really happening? Like a magician makes the audience look one way while the other hand is feinting.

You are misundestanding. I think the divers "giving the thumbs down" was staged as to not give away what they really found. The photos are REAL and perhaps really do show remains.

Think about this timeline:

December 25th a target is identified via the sonar scan. On 12/29/07 the rover goes down and takes the pictures of what looks like remains. We know the NBC crew is there to film this discovery since the timestamp is seen in the video and the "I think that looks like a skull" comments made by Tim. What is interesting is that in the photos on the 29th it looks like the white shape on the top of the cage is there in the beginning and then it is gone it the later photos. Now I can say with 100% that this is true. However, if it is, then the divers went down there to retieve it. Again, this may or may no have happened.

The other scenario, which I think is what likely happened is that the dive on the 30th was the first time they went down. They DID find something, but were not going to reveal that to the world on national television, so were instructed to give the thumbs down no matter what they saw. I believe it was this dive where they went to work gathering "stuff" from the cage, at around 15:43 as seen in the photos I posted previosuly. My guess is that NBC knew something of importance was found and were asked to hold off on showing the video. NBC realized the eyeballs would be more interested since the story was relatively hot and chose to ignore the request to hold off. Hence, OE and others are pissed at them.

[Tamikosmom]

Klaas ... please change the yellow highlight in my post to red.

Thank you.

Janet

[Destiny]

Destiny, you must have spoken with Baghdad Bob.

Now...That's funny....

[Blue Moon]

I don't think Beth has made any comment yet concerning the pictures has she?  Dave did but I have not seen anything from Beth.

[private eye]

You know, a successful investigation was the Scott Peterson case, and in that case it was transparent. The announcement that the body was found was immediate, to the public, and nothing was harmed. I am a little concerned that the Persistence has adopted the byline of the assholes who caused this problem in the first place, the Aruban police, prosecutors, and judges in Aruba. The local henchmen. Now all of a sudden the Persistence is claiming we are the problem and the Aruban prosecutor, and police are their real partners in crime investigations.

I am not stupid, and I can tell sitting here that those assholes have not been or ever will be on our team. They have been the problem.

Because maybe that's the game that Persistence has to play in order to get the job done?
OE did seen upset over the pics, but he came back and posted afterwards and was really quite nice.
Now that war may be brewing 40 miles off Aruba's shore, it makes me rethink all of the info from Persistence this past week.

Maybe they just lost their communication skills. But I don't understand how he would think he could make the statement that the internet and media were to blame and their trusted ally and actual team mates were the Aruban authorities. If he seriously believes that then the whole world outside of Aruba has been dead wrong.

[Tamikosmom]

I don't think Beth has made any comment yet concerning the pictures has she?  Dave did but I have not seen anything from Beth.

Blue Moon ... Beth was quote in the Dateline special.  Please see my post above.

Janet