Natalee Case Discussion #738 3/1 - 3/3/08

[Tater]

Oldfart - I believe everyone here is very thankful for the work the Persistence has done.  The only real questions some have had is pertaining to how they asked for last minute donations.  They started asking for donations about a week ago at BFN saying that if they didn't get funding they would have to leave.  Schaeffer was on TV 2/28 asking for donations, or they would have to leave.  Then they start packing up to leave the next day.  That's what people have found ODD.  They weren't being upfront about their plans to leave whether $$ came in or not.

Thankyou Klaas...Big Hugs

[private eye]

I sent in my question regarding the perception of racism and coverup.

What evidence was van der straaten referring to when he arrested the guards on homicide.

And how did it become a disappearence when van der sloot was arrested.

Racism is alive in Aruba, with the Dutch being royalty, the locals being brown skin and beneath the Dutch, and the poor blacks, well ask Mathew or the security guards. And it doesn't seem to matter for blacks as to economic status of if they are from Holland. Of couirse, the US can't really say much about that.

[private eye]

white Dutch

[Anna]

For all we know, the crew of the Persistence was nicely minding their own business and asking for donations one day and got news of Wacko Hugo's troop and tank movement the next resulting in decision to return home with funding running short anyway.

Chavez has been seen munching on Coca paste recently.  At first he was just chewing the leaves which many natives do but then to escalated to the paste which is supposed to be illegal as it is highly concentrated, much more so than the leaves which by themselves in natural state are relatively harmless.

So with a dictator with his power and military moving tanks and troops while chewing coca paste, I 'd for sure want to get out of Dodge.  This man, Chavez, bears watching closely and I truly believe that is being done and not only by this country but several others.

[texasmom]

Oldfart

Thanks for the giggle.... 

I'll let someone else respond about the "big riff" because I'm not sure what that's all about, and if I were to TRY to tell you what I think I would probably get flamed, or worse.

I'm probably one of the guilty concerning the quote stacks though,.....sorry, I'll try to do better from now on.

And last but not least....I'm not the flaming kind.   

[Tater]

For all we know, the crew of the Persistence was nicely minding their own business and asking for donations one day and got news of Wacko Hugo's troop and tank movement the next resulting in decision to return home with funding running short anyway.

Chavez has been seen munching on Coca paste recently.  At first he was just chewing the leaves which many natives do but then to escalated to the paste which is supposed to be illegal as it is highly concentrated, much more so than the leaves which by themselves in natural state are relatively harmless.

So with a dictator with his power and military moving tanks and troops while chewing coca paste, I 'd for sure want to get out of Dodge.  This man, Chavez, bears watching closely and I truly believe that is being done and not only by this country but several others.

It seem's like a fair explanation that wouldn't need hushing...

[Tamikosmom]

I'm on page 13 and can't keep up with y'all, but I'm going to post anyway.

I was wondering and maybe one of the fellas know . . .

Since the 'dark side' had put Cheney's name in the mix regarding involvement awhile back, say Persistence has Natalee and we've got the perps, could / would there be some type of political ramifications?  I'm not nearly as steeped in political ways as perhaps Kermit, but I sure wouldn't think trying to name a political head as being involved when they clearly are not, would be a smart thing to do.  And if it has finally been proven - well, if I were the VP, those who tagged me would be in deep doodoo.

Some of you mentioned political pouch last night and I had to google it because I had never heard that term and did not know what it was or how it may in fact tie in.  I really don't think it is pure coincidence AF2 decided to fly in when Persistence decided to sail out.   Odd.

OceanExplorer did say that answers to all our questions were coming in time.  This makes me think they are coming home because their quest was done.  He did infer the other targets were insignificant in comparison and it really makes no sense to cover them if not required.  The gentleman who so generously funded this excursion need not lay out more than required.  As for requesting donations - why not?  He planned on spending a million and laid out two.  Why not get some of it back?  To my knowledge his generosity has yet to be matched.

Anyway, I thought maybe the US would be able to pull in some who stupidly pointed to Cheney as having some type of involvement could be brought in on charges of some kind.

Dummies.  Dumb, dumb, dumb!   

If Louis Schafer was requesting funds to match or recoup what he already donated to the cause of the search ... no problems.

However ... Schafer was making a plea for more funds to "continue" the search for Natalee Holloway's remains.  As this plea was forthcoming on February 28, 2008 ... the implication is that Natalee Holloway's remain have yet to be discovered.

IMO

Janet

++++++++++++++

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=5988951

Holloway searchers need helpThursday, February 28, 2008 | 8:21 PM

By Cynthia Cisneros

KEMAH, TX (KTRK) -- It's been almost three years since Natalee Holloway disappeared in Aruba on a class trip.
But searchers have not given up hope.

A Kemah businessman has been on the front lines of the search for Natalee, spending over a million dollars of his own money. Over the past four months, he's paid for an underwater search.

The morning we were there, Louis Schafer was signing a wire transfer for $250,000. The money used to operate a sophisticated, deep sea survey boat, named the Persistence.

"I've dedicated a million dollars, I've gone way above that," said Louis Schafer of Underwater Expeditions. "I feel like it's time to ask for help from the American people that want to see this case solved."

The Persistence has been used every day since November to survey the ocean floor near Aruba. It uses remote operated vehicles, called ROVs, to sweep the ocean depths. What they've been able to accomplish is astounding.

"By Friday, we will have surveyed the entire 50-square mile off Aruba," Schafer said. "We have identified at least 60 of the targets. we have about 150 more targets to inspect."

Natalee Holloway traveled to Aruba two years ago to celebrate her high school graduation and disappeared. Natalee was last seen with Joran Van der Sloot who says he does not know what happened to her.

Schafer made a fortune in the deep sea diving business for oil rig removal and installation. He had access to unique technology and a team of experts that could find just about anything.
 
"So we have completely mapped the ocean floor, we know every object that's there, we know every object that could be a container holding her in the sea," he said.

A relentless search Schafer and his team say will stop, if they don't get more funding.

"And we all feel, I'm speaking from everybody on the team, that she's in one of the targets we have not looked at yet," Tim Trahan of Underwater Expeditions said. "We can't stop. I go to sleep at night thinking we've located it, we just need to get to it."

The search of the rest of those targets will stop this week. For more information on how you can help,

[Bladerunner]

For all we know, the crew of the Persistence was nicely minding their own business and asking for donations one day and got news of Wacko Hugo's troop and tank movement the next resulting in decision to return home with funding running short anyway.

Chavez has been seen munching on Coca paste recently.  At first he was just chewing the leaves which many natives do but then to escalated to the paste which is supposed to be illegal as it is highly concentrated, much more so than the leaves which by themselves in natural state are relatively harmless.

So with a dictator with his power and military moving tanks and troops while chewing coca paste, I 'd for sure want to get out of Dodge.  This man, Chavez, bears watching closely and I truly believe that is being done and not only by this country but several others.

Maybe so, but I think the end of the week deadline had already been put out there.

[Anna]

But we don't know when they learned of tank and troop movement.  And Chavez is using cocaine openly and during speeches, etc.  That paste probably represents fifty pounds of leaves which are relatively benigh but the paste isn't.

[klaasend]

Nut - it's either at 9 or 10pm ET, not sure which one.  I also don't know if it will be in English.

Thanks Klaas...I am sure it won't be in English, but I am more interested in the video clip that they say has never been shown . We can probably get a transcript tomorrow of the broadcast and then get it trannied. Me wants to see the vid

I'm sure the video will be available, if not on the telearuba site elsewhere like maybe RU.  It will turn up 

[private eye]

Chavez is giving away millions of dollars and he can't make his people like him.

[oldfart]

Oldfart - I believe everyone here is very thankful for the work the Persistence has done.  The only real questions some have had is pertaining to how they asked for last minute donations.  They started asking for donations about a week ago at BFN saying that if they didn't get funding they would have to leave.  Schaeffer was on TV 2/28 asking for donations, or they would have to leave.  Then they start packing up to leave the next day.  That's what people have found ODD.  They weren't being upfront about their plans to leave whether $$ came in or not.

Klaasend
I asked earlier about the chit  between Columbia and Venez.  as far as timing goes..on events there and Persistence leaving.
I for one would not want to be a chip on the table  just because I was on the water when VENEZ.. gets Pissed off..
JMO

[Anna]

For all we know, the crew of the Persistence was nicely minding their own business and asking for donations one day and got news of Wacko Hugo's troop and tank movement the next resulting in decision to return home with funding running short anyway.

Chavez has been seen munching on Coca paste recently.  At first he was just chewing the leaves which many natives do but then to escalated to the paste which is supposed to be illegal as it is highly concentrated, much more so than the leaves which by themselves in natural state are relatively harmless.

So with a dictator with his power and military moving tanks and troops while chewing coca paste, I 'd for sure want to get out of Dodge.  This man, Chavez, bears watching closely and I truly believe that is being done and not only by this country but several others.

It seem's like a fair explanation that wouldn't need hushing...

But I wouldn't want to be the one to break the story while in his tank range.  I'd be real quite until I got away from him.  Also could have been an early warning from our or someone else's intelligence that asked not to mention so as not to tip him off that his troop movement was being duly noted.  He SHOULD know this already, Chavez, but currently he is doing some really weird things and so I think should be considered a loose canon, highly unstable.  Could be better not to openly confront his actions even knowing it would soon become public information.

His FARC buddies get lots of money from drugs and kidnappings.  They have taken many oil and coal executives in the past that received very little media coverage I suppose so as to not encourage them.

It's just a thought.  I have no proof of any of this effecting anybody's decision about anything but I can see how it could cause a major change in plans in a big hurry is all I mean.

[Anna]

Chavez is giving away millions of dollars and he can't make his people like him.

That's because it is their money he is giving away.  They have food shortages while he gives away their money.

[bluwaters]

I don't think anyone is doing anything bad.  We just don't know what exactly they are doing and tend to speculate.

YEP!

Yes and given the fact that we have been here doing exactly that for almost three years, I don't see that changing anytime soon ....

I heard that!
Almost 3 years of trying to make sense out of chaos..

[Anna]

So Dana and the Aruban radio program are on at the same time?

[Miss Scarlet]

Just to reiterate my earlier speculation:

The fact that the cage is MUCH larger than anticipated pretty much rules out that Natalee was disposed of the first night. This also pretty much guarantees that a large ship (or helicopter) was involved. Put that together and you have a VERY large, coordinated cover-up.
I think they may have the "goods" on the Aruban Government being involved.

about the disposing of the body: In the PRDV tape joran says as he is with "Daury" : I ll go to the casino tomorrow to be on camera. Why go on camera to establish some sort of alibi one day after the body has been disposed of?

I think Natalee was buried and moved a few times before they finally disposed of her at sea. Probably about June 10th, when they announced she was found and then retracted it. I think the Aruban Government did it!!!!

Sounds plausible to me!  They would do ANYTHING for tourism dollars.  Shameful.  Truly.

[Tater]

 It could have been handled like this:

Note from Persistence:

Hi folks,
  Due to rising tensions between two major parties,we've decided to pack up and move on out for now until issue's are resolved.We must ensure the safety of our crew first and foremost but we have every intention of returning to finish our work here.

I think the monkey's could have figured this out in a snap! JMO

[private eye]

Just to reiterate my earlier speculation:

The fact that the cage is MUCH larger than anticipated pretty much rules out that Natalee was disposed of the first night. This also pretty much guarantees that a large ship (or helicopter) was involved. Put that together and you have a VERY large, coordinated cover-up.
I think they may have the "goods" on the Aruban Government being involved.

about the disposing of the body: In the PRDV tape joran says as he is with "Daury" : I ll go to the casino tomorrow to be on camera. Why go on camera to establish some sort of alibi one day after the body has been disposed of?

I think Natalee was buried and moved a few times before they finally disposed of her at sea. Probably about June 10th, when they announced she was found and then retracted it. I think the Aruban Government did it!!!!

Sounds plausible to me!  They would do ANYTHING for tourism dollars.  Shameful.  Truly.

Because while he was at the casino being filmed and his presence verified, the body was moved

[texasmom]

Klaas,

I sent you "hotmail" when you have a minute.

Thanks,
TM