Natalee Case Discussion #738 3/1 - 3/3/08

[Finbar]

capslock is playing mind games, and I am too tired and feeling to pissy to play. 

If you can't talk straight, don't post at all Caps...good night!

First of all, I think if you spent some time reading and thinking about what CAPS had been posting here, you would not post this.

CAPS has provided some interesting deep background on Aruba. Maybe you should try and read some of it before you are so quick to dismiss.

It really worries me that some here see this an arm chair detective novel with no consequences. If what is true about the drug trafficking, and I believe it to be, then CAPS is placing great risk by seeking and speaking about these matters.

I think we should not press CAPS to be injected into this situation too deeply. I do not think it is worth one more human life. I think some of the other deaths there are drug related. Maybe even NH related.

This troubles me deeply.

Fin

[AZLady]

The pond.  People keep mentioning ponds, as in throwing things in ponds and sidescan sonor searching of a pond.  Interesting.  They did sidescan sonor search in that pond  two days before they announced their departure.

[suisse71]

When Peter de Vries set up the sting with Patrick, we knew that Patrick and Joran had talked about going into "business" together.  That was the subject during all the long rides.  What did people think they meant by "business"?  Obviously, Joran was attracted to what he thought Patrick was proposing -- an illegal drug-related type of business, as I understood it.  This is nothing new.

Exactly!  And so Joran would talk and trust Patrick. Which he clearly did and he got caught!

 Joran whole MO is gambling with peoples lives while Daury/Daddy rescues him everytime.  Pathetic. They are so immoral


j4n!!

[hotping]

Thirty months ago I let my darling Cocker Spaniel, Harry out at
11:00 PM.  Harry was 18 years old and had the sense of a human.
He didn't come in and I looked and looked for him for weeks.
I figured he was dead but there was always that little part that
worried if he might be hungry or sad or mistreated.
I found Harry today and it was such a sence of relief. He had did peacefully
at the edge of the woods.  Nothing left but his lovely blond hair, but I finally knew where he was and I was so relieved.  I kinda know how Beth feels.
Harry and I had a funeral this afternoon.

Oh Magnolia...What a Story.....I had a similar one with My Cocker named Taffy..God Bless You and Harry...Beth will Hopefully have Her Day Soon. 

[Destiny]

Apparently what Patrick said are things everybody says about Aruba.  Why is it any different for him to say them than others?

I don't care about their drug cartels and all that because it is a choice that many there have made.  It's their problem.  Natalee is ours and she is what I want to know about.

Justice for Natalee is the only objective that I have.  That, and an equitable resolution for her family. 

Surely they are not going to be so stupid as to think they can show us a couple of drug deals and we will just forget all about what JORAN did to Natalee and why her parents now have no daughter.

Amen Anna!

[billb's daughter]

Seems to me that the game plan of Aruba is to keep the focus off of Paulus, whether in defending Joran, or blaming Kalpoes, American media, internet blogs, and now Patrick. Whatever....all strategies are successfully keeping Paulus out of the spotlight. What does Paulus have that keeps him so protected? The article that Blonde http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?act_id=2141&username=guest@tni.org&password=
9999&publish=Y
brought forward got me to think of why Paulus can do this. He has been an integral point man in Aruba govt contracts; in that position, he was well placed to support the drug cartel in money laundering thru tourism, hotels, major construction projects, and probably drug  running activities. So, that is where Paulus gets his power. He is a major cog in the drug cartels on Aruba/Curacao/etc. Calling in favors to the drug cartels that now protect him (big bucks that pay for all the high priced lawyers for Joran and pimps). The MEP also benefits big time, and will protect Paulus to keep things as before, including Coast Guard assets.    Whether Paulus (and other connected persons in govt/elders) were participates in the gang rape and ultimate murder of Natalee is open to further discovery. I also think the Persistence found potential evidence to support drug cartel involvement, and that has substantial raised the bar wrt the case. Hans Mos came in to make everything fade away...the Persistence has now changed that.

Credible people have said that Paul Van Der Sloot is involved in a Mafia,but that is not a rarity in Aruba at all as that Government has shown its true colors. He's arrested for suspicion of Premediated Murder and Kidnapping but suddenly changes his story and is released to never be questioned again. They release him as a suspect,allow him to become a member of the Aruban Bar and partners with Joran' Attorneys,He is also on several Government Committees. One of them was the Prison and we know he snuck in a cell phone to Joran so he could keep close contact with him,this didnt just happen in 2007 but also in 2005. The Chief Prosecuter in her last court appearance revealed that he said he had two contacts with Natalee Holloway and picked her and his son up at 4AM. But still till this day him and his son say they will never talk to the police again and it appears no one is doing anything about it. Joran and Paul also say they will both tell more but at a later date at there choosing. Even Hans FOS Mos said that PVDS is involved one way or another in Natalees dissapearance.

*******,
Yep, circumstantial evidence clearly points to substantial involvement by Paulus, yet it t appears to roll off him like water on a duck.
The drug cartel is the source of his funds and protection. Mos has become part of the cover up. I pray that the Persistence has, or returns to obtain, Natalee's remains or clear evidence of her murder.
Mos has stymied the case (MHO - planned to get Joran off) by his bogus arrest in Nov, ensuring that Joran can't be rearrested, only brought to trial. Jossy said the same on Dana's show and further stated that because of that Nov arrest, Joran can't be rearrested under Aruba law....only brought to trial. Jossy further stated that a trial is unlikely since the appeal to rearrest Joran was also denied...so no point in a trial.

[Observer]

Ecuador Follows Chavez in Deploying Troops to Colombia Border

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,334409,00.html

You don't suppose this time that fruitcake is actually going to do it, do you? 

Big mistake, Hugo!  Big one.

 

I am bringing this forward and posting again as I think this may just be very important.  Lots of activity today in military planes flying overheard here, flying very fast and very low.

Scary! - Hugo lay off that coco paste to say the least.

Bet that is just great for Aruba's tourism!   NOT

Glad The Persistence team got out of there for now

j4n!!

I suppose that would explain Dick Cheneys visit if he was in Aruba You would think the facilities in Curacao would be even more important to us as its a much bigger island then Aruba. Not sure how the airports stack up vs each other but I think the one in Curacao was ranked much higher for it facilities.

This would for sure put a damper on the Natalee case as if something did happen with Venezuela then we would be relying on these islands for there services and as we all know far more Americans travel to Aruba then the other two islands,so we are definetly in closer contact with them then Bonaire or Curacao. As far as Venezuela goes they have spent several billions on arming themselves the last few years and with Hugo's talk he is someone that our Govt is definetly worried about.

[Anna]

Magnolia,
Yes, it is the not knowing that is so painful and hard.  I am glad you finally have closure with your Harry.  And while sorry for your loss, it is the down side of our beloved pets.  During the course of a lifetime, we will outlive several of them as it is just our natural life spans.

And I do know the love of a pet can be comparable to that of a child no matter how some may feel about this.  Pets are child substitutes in our culture today and are almost but not quite in par with children in the hearts of many.  Only we will lose several pets in the normal course of things but should expect our children to long outlive us.

While you may shed some tears before going to sleep tonight I think you will sleep with a lighter heart for knowing what happened to your Harry.  At lest you won't be wondering any longer and that is at least some small comfort.

[klaasend]

The pond.  People keep mentioning ponds, as in throwing things in ponds and sidescan sonor searching of a pond.  Interesting.  They did sidescan sonor search in that pond  two days before they announced their departure.

I'd say yes

[AZLady]

The pond.  People keep mentioning ponds, as in throwing things in ponds and sidescan sonor searching of a pond.  Interesting.  They did sidescan sonor search in that pond  two days before they announced their departure.

I'd say yes

They always say the simplest explanation is usually closest to the truth.  He threw his dead dog in the pond. 

[Magnolia]

Thirty months ago I let my darling Cocker Spaniel, Harry out at
11:00 PM.  Harry was 18 years old and had the sense of a human.
He didn't come in and I looked and looked for him for weeks.
I figured he was dead but there was always that little part that
worried if he might be hungry or sad or mistreated.
I found Harry today and it was such a sence of relief. He had did peacefully
at the edge of the woods.  Nothing left but his lovely blond hair, but I finally knew where he was and I was so relieved.  I kinda know how Beth feels.
Harry and I had a funeral this afternoon.

Oh Magnolia - I'm sorry you have lost your long time friend even though it was time. 

I am deeply sorry also as last year I lot my Bullseye after 15 years and he too wanted to die peacefully and begged to go outside to do it as he had cancer. I lost my other cat months later from a exposed uterus after giving birth. They were only pets but a long time friend and it changed me forever. I understand Magnolia

Don't be sad for me.  I am happy to know where Harry is.
I have a wonderful new puppy now who is such a joy.
He is half Blue Heeler and half Yellow Law and a handsome boy. 
He is 10 months and 70 lbs.  Big old rough country boy and I love him.
His name is Hudson.

[suisse71]

How typically Aruban!!!

Joran is on tape confessing so let's get Patrick!

Exactly! ANYTHING but address the problem that is staring you in the face and has been there since DAY ONE!

The "problem" you have, Aruba, is J-O-R-A-N.

Amen!!!  And the problem Aruba has had and still has is Rudy Croes & Higher Powers International, Inc. 

Get Patrick for what drugs?  What hypocrites, so typical! It has been and remains "A Smugglers' Paradise"

j4n!!

[AZLady]

Would you think our DEA or our Homeland Security would pay the Persistence well for the mapping of the waters around Aruba and the list and locations of the targets?  Perhaps they did finish their job.

[klaasend]

The pond.  People keep mentioning ponds, as in throwing things in ponds and sidescan sonor searching of a pond.  Interesting.  They did sidescan sonor search in that pond  two days before they announced their departure.

I'd say yes

They always say the simplest explanation is usually closest to the truth.  He threw his dead dog in the pond. 

AZLady - thanks for reminding me about that

[AZLady]

The ocean search and cage pics were done before Joran's confession to Patrick, weren't they?  When the team heard all of what Joran said, the other 19 plus hours we didn't hear, perhaps they learned some new information.  Knowing that their every move was watched, they oh so casually searched the pond, just to clear one last place.  OE told us nothing was found.  And then he changed the subject and even emotionally speaking of some subjects, getting all the Monkeys riled up.  No one even thought one more second about the pond.  Then, they left Aruba.

[Observer]

Credible people have said that Paul Van Der Sloot is involved in a Mafia,but that is not a rarity in Aruba at all as that Government has shown its true colors. He's arrested for suspicion of Premediated Murder and Kidnapping but suddenly changes his story and is released to never be questioned again. They release him as a suspect,allow him to become a member of the Aruban Bar and partners with Joran' Attorneys,He is also on several Government Committees. One of them was the Prison and we know he snuck in a cell phone to Joran so he could keep close contact with him,this didnt just happen in 2007 but also in 2005. The Chief Prosecuter in her last court appearance revealed that he said he had two contacts with Natalee Holloway and picked her and his son up at 4AM. But still till this day him and his son say they will never talk to the police again and it appears no one is doing anything about it. Joran and Paul also say they will both tell more but at a later date at there choosing. Even Hans FOS Mos said that PVDS is involved one way or another in Natalees dissapearance.

*******,
Yep, circumstantial evidence clearly points to substantial involvement by Paulus, yet it t appears to roll off him like water on a duck.
The drug cartel is the source of his funds and protection. Mos has become part of the cover up. I pray that the Persistence has, or returns to obtain, Natalee's remains or clear evidence of her murder.
Mos has stymied the case (MHO - planned to get Joran off) by his bogus arrest in Nov, ensuring that Joran can't be rearrested, only brought to trial. Jossy said the same on Dana's show and further stated that because of that Nov arrest, Joran can't be rearrested under Aruba law....only brought to trial. Jossy further stated that a trial is unlikely since the appeal to rearrest Joran was also denied...so no point in a trial.

It's almost like Mos knew there was a infiltrater/recordings and issued these arrests on bogus evidence so when this show did come out the bar would be raised so high he would not be arrested. Even after all Joran said it gives credence to Dutch law for arresting someone a third time and the amount of serious evidence needed. Mos contradicts himseld several times by saying he expects them to talk and thats why he arrested them as they stated they had more to tell. Then later tells Greta that he did not expect them to talk 

I agree with you totally and I really have grown to dislike MOS as we all heard him at first like he was the night in shining armor coming to save the case. Then it was oh well the case is now closed and they are no longer suspects because I promised them I would release them or bring this to trial  by December 31st but that doesnt mean that if evidence doesnt come up in the next 12 years this case wont be solved. We all heard the door shut at that point. Just last week he talked more like a AHATA spokesman and his deep concern about tourism and how safe the island is..Ofcourse the media obstructed the case as well..

When did Jossy say a trial was unlikely? A month ago or so he said he would expect this to go to trial.

[AZLady]

I need to go back and read OE's posts in light of the day the pond was searched--his tone and topic choice before and after that day.

[billb's daughter]

Seems to me that the game plan of Aruba is to keep the focus off of Paulus, whether in defending Joran, or blaming Kalpoes, American media, internet blogs, and now Patrick. Whatever....all strategies are successfully keeping Paulus out of the spotlight. What does Paulus have that keeps him so protected? The article that Blonde http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?act_id=2141&username=guest@tni.org&password=
9999&publish=Y
brought forward got me to think of why Paulus can do this. He has been an integral point man in Aruba govt contracts; in that position, he was well placed to support the drug cartel in money laundering thru tourism, hotels, major construction projects, and probably drug  running activities. So, that is where Paulus gets his power. He is a major cog in the drug cartels on Aruba/Curacao/etc. Calling in favors to the drug cartels that now protect him (big bucks that pay for all the high priced lawyers for Joran and pimps). The MEP also benefits big time, and will protect Paulus to keep things as before, including Coast Guard assets.    Whether Paulus (and other connected persons in govt/elders) were participates in the gang rape and ultimate murder of Natalee is open to further discovery. I also think the Persistence found potential evidence to support drug cartel involvement, and that has substantial raised the bar wrt the case. Hans Mos came in to make everything fade away...the Persistence has now changed that.

I agree with much of this.  PVDS is a lawyer and has access to government offices and personnel--very valuable when running a businesss like a drug cartel.  There were plans to make him even more valuable if he could have become a judge, but the Dutch didn't allow that.  I still wonder why.  I can't believe he didn't pass exams--there's more to it than that.

As far as passing exams....everyone has enemies...it might have been better for the drug cartel....but roll with the punches..Paulus landed on his feet and is still in a position of influence that can be taken advantage of by those that protect/fund his activities...

[jackb]

Rentahoe has the most miles on her

So many miles, in fact, they call her a BACKhoe.  Jackb

Excellent!

Not too long and she will be a ROLLED BACK hoe.     jackb

[klaasend]