Natalee Case Discussion #738 3/1 - 3/3/08

[Dihannah1]

Well, just got home after a good day in New York.  Thanks Old Monkeys, New Monkeys, and "lurking wanna be Monkeys".......  You were all awsome today!  It was a nice trip all in all.  Rob Smith wasn't there, as a matter of fact, most of them were NOT there, looks like they switched crews.  Aruba Booth was in the middle of No Where Land.  J4N was good today.  She went nosing around, I'll let her tell you.  She's better at it then I am.  We didn't get lost today, we did the cab thing.  We had a nice Hot Dog man booth to keep warm in too.  We had a snow squall, but the nice thing about that was, they even had a glass covering over our heads, and the cops were nice.  ******* is posting an AHATA man, new one.  try to guess who he is.  I am not playing games, I don't know who he is.  When we got back here and off the train, I found that where I parked locked up for the night, so they told me to go speak with the policeman over there.  So I did.  He made a few calls, and while we were waiting to see what to do, I told him what we were doing in NY.  He told me his Seargent (female) went to aruba to help the family at one point.  I was so impressed that he got a tote bag, and a sweatshirt to bring back to her.  We talked for quite a while about the case, I also sent him to scaredmonkeys.    

Seeing as I haven't been around today, has anything new happened?  can someone fill me in on todays news please?

Thanks for the update Hotshot!  I am extremely proud of you and the others who represented Natalee and her family today in New York!  I'm so relieved to know that it went better than Boston! 

GOOD JOB HOTSHOT!!!!   

Just catching up.   I'm VERY proud of ALL our Monkeys and ALL the hardwork put into ALL of the boycotts!  Great job in NY guys!

I find it disheartening anybody would say one was better than another.   They are all just as important and have been successful!
Sorry, I find it offensive, that we would comment on one being better, than another. 

I was also catching up today, and I just arrived at this misunderstanding of my post about the travel show in New York.  When I said "relieved that it went better than Boston" I was referring to the fact that Hotshot said that it seemed a whole new crew was in the Aruba booth, indicating to me that the representative from Aruba that lied to the travel show officials and caused problems in Boston wasn't there.  Also Hotshot said that the "cops were nice”; there was no mention of the Monkeys being harassed repeatedly, or the fear that "arrest" might be a possibility as described by ******* and others at the Boston show.  I'm not sure if I've read EVERYTHING that was posted about the New York show but all of the initial reports that I read indicated that the Monkeys were only asked once to show their permit and that otherwise law enforcement was not an issue.  The Boston reports indicated that there was repeated scrutiny of the Monkey's permits and how they could be interpreted.  I sincerely apologize to Dihannah1 and anyone else who was offended by what I said, I certainly did not intend for it to imply that those who went to Boston did anything better than those who went to New York.  I am proud of the efforts of both groups willingness to contribute their time, money, brave the weather, and take on any obstacle that stood in their way to represent Natalee and her family to the world at these shows. 

THANK YOU AGAIN TO ALL WHO WENT TO BOSTON AND NEW YORK!!!!     

Sorry TM.  I misunderstood what you said.  You are right!  Thank God the Police are leaving them alone and no Arubans hassling them....  Again, Thank You to all the boycotters everywhere, who have went out and sacrificed for the cause!   

I really wish I could have made it to NY, but had no funds to make it the drive.

[private eye]

I don't think Beth has made any comment yet concerning the pictures has she?  Dave did but I have not seen anything from Beth.

I would love to read Dave's comments on it. I respect Dave tremendously and though I haven't seen him in years, I have a lot of affection for him. He was half of a team that produced a young man whom I think is a great guy, who still walks on this earth, and who gets far too little attention for his own good:) He gets as much as he wants!

Do you have his comments?

[Tamikosmom]

I don't think Beth has made any comment yet concerning the pictures has she?  Dave did but I have not seen anything from Beth.

I would love to read Dave's comments on it. I respect Dave tremendously and though I haven't seen him in years, I have a lot of affection for him. He was half of a team that produced a young man whom I think is a great guy, who still walks on this earth, and who gets far too little attention for his own good:) He gets as much as he wants!

Do you have his comments?

PI ... Dateline quote both Dave and Beth's reactions regarding the contents of the cage/trape.  Please read my post.

Dave's words were heartbreaking.

Thank you.

Janet

[KarmaRoundUp]

Mother of missing teen scheduled to talk at fundraiser


By Lisa Singleton-Rickman

Staff Writer


Last Updated:March 01. 2008 10:27PM
Published: March 02. 2008 3:30AM
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 Courtesy of Randal Crow
Beth Holloway will speak at Muscle Shoals High School at 7:30 p.m. March 15.
Muscle Shoals High School Band Boosters are hosting a fundraiser March 15 featuring Beth Holloway, the mother of missing Birmingham teen Natalee Holloway.

Natalee vanished in Aruba on the last night of her senior trip, May 30, 2005. Since then, Beth Holloway has relentlessly searched for her daughter, who reportedly was last seen leaving a popular restaurant/bar called Carlos 'n Charlie's.

Her presentation begins at 7:30 p.m. in the Muscle Shoals High School auditorium.

Beth will share some of her experiences while in Aruba searching for her daughter and will explain how her faith has sustained her through the ordeal.

In addition, she will share information about the International Safe Travels Foundation, which she founded.

Jean May, band booster board member and event organizer, said the timing of Holloway's visit is good in that it coincides with the time that plans are being made for spring break trips and end-of-year senior trips.

May said the idea to have Holloway speak came as the result of her reading the book, "Loving Natalee."

"As I read about her International Safe Travels Foundation, I couldn't help but think people really need to hear her message on what our children need to know before they travel," May said. "We think we're preparing our children to travel but things happen. Even if we think we know what to tell our children, hers is a message we all need to hear. It's an outlet for her in telling Natalee's story, and in a way, it's making a positive out of an unthinkable tragedy."

May said she would like to see the band boosters begin an annual spring fundraiser with a nationally recognized speaker.

"It's informative for the community and it helps the band program with financing costly activities," she said.

Tickets are $30 and will be available at the high school office as well as Valley Credit Union in Muscle Shoals, Sheffield, Tuscumbia and Russellville, Cold Water Books and First Franklin Financial in Muscle Shoals and Florence. For details, call 810-1278.

Lisa Singleton-Rickman can be reached at 740-5735 or lisa.singleton-rickman@timesdaily.com.
http://www.timesdaily.com/article/20080302/NEWS/803020348/-1/NLETTER

[private eye]

Wait.... I just watched it again and Hansen says " the day they FIRST saw that trap, Christmas Eve......" and the gentlemen are watching a video with the date and timestamp reading 12/29.

" The next day,........ Hans Mos came on board to see what they had"  and they show footage of the vessel heading out, talks of double rainbows and dolphins leading the way and then another video with the timestamp of 12/30/


no mention of Christmas Day.
Does anyone know what gives with this discrepancy?

The divers giving the "thumbs down" on Dateline was staged. Apparently, The Persistence went BACK on the 29th to make the "recovery." JMO

Is it possible that there were two traps? 

I got my dates messed up -- but my speculation is the same -- what we saw on "Dateline" was staged.

Not to keep harping on it, but ............. If it was staged, why were we so focused on those 6 photos with the "Staged" timestamps and why did the posting and discussions get such a reaction from OE????? AND casa!........ someone sent them because, ostensibly, they had import. Or was it to both throw a bone of divergence AND off the track of what was really happening? Like a magician makes the audience look one way while the other hand is feinting.

You are misundestanding. I think the divers "giving the thumbs down" was staged as to not give away what they really found. The photos are REAL and perhaps really do show remains.

Wreck ... if Tim Miller ... Dave Holloway and ... Beth Holloway staged the following deception ... then Tamikomom's unwavering trust of these three for almost three years has been negated.

Wreck ... silence regarding aspects of an investigation is where it is at ... not lies ... not a collaborated deception on American  DATELINE.  A charade to deceive was not necessary.

I give Tim Miller ... Dave Holloway and ... Beth Twitty Hollloway ... the benefit of the doubt.  They were all speaking the truth ... there was nothing connected to Natalee Holloway in that enormous cage/trap.

I am done!

Janet

+++++++++++++


The search for Natalee Holloway
It's the story you haven't heard: the tale of two parents who, even now, willgo anywhere -- and endure anything -- to find answers.

TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

On Dec. 30, off the coast of Aruba, divers from the Aruban police force and the research vessel Persistence were about to make a crucial dive on a promising target in the search for Natalee Holloway.
 
The researchers had discovered a fish trap about 90 feet below the surface in almost the exact spot search expert Tim Miller had theorized Natalee’s body might be.

Team leader Tim Trahan suited up to join the Aruban police divers. As Tim Miller wished him well, the divers hit the water and the ROV was sent down to capture what would happen for everyone watching on board.

(On the boat) Brandon: We have visual on divers and target.

Slowly the divers worked their way down to the trap. They had been instructed to give a thumbs up or thumbs down.  The atmosphere in the survey room was tense, and nerves were raw as Miller, the Aruban authorities and the crew of the Persistence waited for word of what exactly was in the trap. The divers approached the target and signaled above. And then...

(On the boat) No it's thumbs down. Negative, not it.

Crushing disappointment.

(On the boat) Tim Miller: Divers coming up right now. I don't know it looked as promising today as it did last night or before.

Miller: Nothing?

Trahan: No.

Chris Hansen: That had to be a crushing blow.

Tim Miller: It was a crushing blow.
 
Now Tim Miller had to deliver that same crushing blow to Natalee’s parents.

Chris Hansen: How hard is it for you to dial their numbers and tell them that this in fact is not the break in the case we-- we hoped for?

Tim Miller: Probably one of the hardest calls I ever made. Probably one of the hardest … probably should have never made the first one. But everything looked right at the time.

Natalee’s father was at home in Mississippi when the call came.

Chris Hansen: What was it like for you to, once again, have a setback?

Dave Holloway: That's probably about the time that-- the chest pains intensified to an extreme. I mean, how many times can I take this?

Beth Holloway: You know, it's a disappointment. But, you have to look at the magnitude and the sacrifices being made even to get to that point.

Chris Hansen: You didn't know these folks before this happened. What do they represent to you now?
 
Dave Holloway: They represent heroes to me.
 
To be sure there was no relevant evidence, material from the trap was given to the FBI.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

Didn't he say that there were no unsolved murders from the past five years? I thought, well dumb ass, who killed Natalee then:)

[Tamikosmom]

You are misundestanding. I think the divers "giving the thumbs down" was staged as to not give away what they really found. The photos are REAL and perhaps really do show remains.

Wreck ... if Tim Miller ... Dave Holloway and ... Beth Holloway staged the following deception ... then Tamikomom's unwavering trust of these three for almost three years has been negated.

Wreck ... silence regarding aspects of an investigation is where it is at ... not lies ... not a collaborated deception on American  DATELINE.  A charade to deceive was not necessary.

I give Tim Miller ... Dave Holloway and ... Beth Twitty Hollloway ... the benefit of the doubt.  They were all speaking the truth ... there was nothing connected to Natalee Holloway in that enormous cage/trap.

I am done!

Janet

+++++++++++++


The search for Natalee Holloway
It's the story you haven't heard: the tale of two parents who, even now, willgo anywhere -- and endure anything -- to find answers.

TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

On Dec. 30, off the coast of Aruba, divers from the Aruban police force and the research vessel Persistence were about to make a crucial dive on a promising target in the search for Natalee Holloway.
 
The researchers had discovered a fish trap about 90 feet below the surface in almost the exact spot search expert Tim Miller had theorized Natalee’s body might be.

Team leader Tim Trahan suited up to join the Aruban police divers. As Tim Miller wished him well, the divers hit the water and the ROV was sent down to capture what would happen for everyone watching on board.

(On the boat) Brandon: We have visual on divers and target.

Slowly the divers worked their way down to the trap. They had been instructed to give a thumbs up or thumbs down.  The atmosphere in the survey room was tense, and nerves were raw as Miller, the Aruban authorities and the crew of the Persistence waited for word of what exactly was in the trap. The divers approached the target and signaled above. And then...

(On the boat) No it's thumbs down. Negative, not it.

Crushing disappointment.

(On the boat) Tim Miller: Divers coming up right now. I don't know it looked as promising today as it did last night or before.

Miller: Nothing?

Trahan: No.

Chris Hansen: That had to be a crushing blow.

Tim Miller: It was a crushing blow.
 
Now Tim Miller had to deliver that same crushing blow to Natalee’s parents.

Chris Hansen: How hard is it for you to dial their numbers and tell them that this in fact is not the break in the case we-- we hoped for?

Tim Miller: Probably one of the hardest calls I ever made. Probably one of the hardest … probably should have never made the first one. But everything looked right at the time.

Natalee’s father was at home in Mississippi when the call came.

Chris Hansen: What was it like for you to, once again, have a setback?

Dave Holloway: That's probably about the time that-- the chest pains intensified to an extreme. I mean, how many times can I take this?

Beth Holloway: You know, it's a disappointment. But, you have to look at the magnitude and the sacrifices being made even to get to that point.

Chris Hansen: You didn't know these folks before this happened. What do they represent to you now?
 
Dave Holloway: They represent heroes to me.
 
To be sure there was no relevant evidence, material from the trap was given to the FBI.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

[/quote]

[Anna]

I don't think Beth has made any comment yet concerning the pictures has she?  Dave did but I have not seen anything from Beth.

I would love to read Dave's comments on it. I respect Dave tremendously and though I haven't seen him in years, I have a lot of affection for him. He was half of a team that produced a young man whom I think is a great guy, who still walks on this earth, and who gets far too little attention for his own good:) He gets as much as he wants!

Do you have his comments?

Rrivate,

I think there is a transcript posted in the Media Thread with the links to the Dateline program.  From memory, it is around Reply 192 or193.  Transcript as well as link to the vids by Carpe and I believe posted by *******.

To me, that huge trap doesn't look like it has been moved or used for anything in years.  If a Post Office, not a very busy one.  All that diving would be a lot of trouble and risky to leave "the mail" unattended as someone else could come along and take it.  Just doesn't seem very practical for drug storage and retrieval. 

jmo

[jackb]

The plane is not AF2. At least not the updated one.

When GHWB was President, there was a documentary about AF1 & AF2. They were completely new planes. Extensive show about the planes.

Look at the front end nose section. On top of the more modern AF1 & 2 there is a distinctive bulge on the top.

The plane posted here that is on Aruba does not have this bulge.

It could be Congressmen on a "fact-finding" junket - spending all those tax dollar$. You know, the ones where they take 120 of their "aides" on a trip.

Could be any of the alphabet groups that are there.

It is interesting about the"post office". An underwater one at that.....

Does the name - Harms ring any bells? It should.


Fin

real deal will have a seal, reckon?  jackb

[Rob]

I'm saying that Cheney is not on Aruba and that's not how US Foreign policy works. Those planes are used by others when the VP is not using them (it).

No one on Aruba is worth a State visit. Now when Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende was there that's another story. He's not there and has left the building. There is no one on Aruba that the VP would meet. It would be senior level State Dept officials and nothing more.

As I said, Cheney does not meet with island slumlords.

Gabe Leo has been babbling about the DHS for about a week on the FP. For once he is right.

That jet is not going to remove people from Colombia like Vietnam ... ain't gonna happen.

Jack, the itinerary of the President and VP is readily available for all to see. Unless it is a trip to Afghanistan or Iraq. When they move into a war zone precautions are taken and obviously so. It has to do with security and the team dispatched to the area clears the area and all buildings to make sure there will be no incidents. They arrive about a week before the President and take the c-130 loaded with their goodies. The limo and all support personnel arrive a week prior. They also look at all phone calls received to the White House and make sure there are no kooks in the area. If there are, they pay them a visit. *FYI - the door to the limo weighs 6000 lbs alone and has massive counter measure that have never been deployed, it has it's own oxygen system and tires that can not be shot out. The windows are unable to be rolled down. It has a 1200 horsepower engine. It has shields that drop down should a grenade be hurled at it and prevents it from going underneath - Gaza Style.

Now the 707 that Reagan used and is at his library was ordered by LBJ. The 747 used by GHWB was ordered by Reagan and never used by Reagan. GHW Bush received the plane and he used it first. It was then used by Clinton and currently by Dubya Bush.

The SEC of State could use the plane you see on the tarmac on Aruba. It can also be used by high level personnel if there is a large delegation meeting in a foreign land.

When Bush or Cheney are involved it is usually, if not always, in a multi-country setting. They very rarely sit down with one leader, and when that happens the leader goes to the White House.

In a case where the President travels to one specific country, it could be to spread the message of hope and democracy to a new fledgling democracy. Or a "re-payment" type trip to thank an ally - such as Poland.

The fact that the Dutch Prime Minister was recently on Aruba and would have presented an ample opportunity to meet with him and was by-passed, tells me that whatever is happening in the region does not involve Natalee. This is something else.

I wish this was all for Natalee, but I highly doubt it.

[wreck]

You are misundestanding. I think the divers "giving the thumbs down" was staged as to not give away what they really found. The photos are REAL and perhaps really do show remains.

Wreck ... if Tim Miller ... Dave Holloway and ... Beth Holloway staged the following deception ... then Tamikomom's unwavering trust of these three for almost three years has been negated.

Wreck ... silence regarding aspects of an investigation is where it is at ... not lies ... not a collaborated deception on American  DATELINE.  A charade to deceive was not necessary.

I give Tim Miller ... Dave Holloway and ... Beth Twitty Hollloway ... the benefit of the doubt.  They were all speaking the truth ... there was nothing connected to Natalee Holloway in that enormous cage/trap.

I am done!

Janet

+++++++++++++


The search for Natalee Holloway
It's the story you haven't heard: the tale of two parents who, even now, willgo anywhere -- and endure anything -- to find answers.

TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

On Dec. 30, off the coast of Aruba, divers from the Aruban police force and the research vessel Persistence were about to make a crucial dive on a promising target in the search for Natalee Holloway.
 
The researchers had discovered a fish trap about 90 feet below the surface in almost the exact spot search expert Tim Miller had theorized Natalee’s body might be.

Team leader Tim Trahan suited up to join the Aruban police divers. As Tim Miller wished him well, the divers hit the water and the ROV was sent down to capture what would happen for everyone watching on board.

(On the boat) Brandon: We have visual on divers and target.

Slowly the divers worked their way down to the trap. They had been instructed to give a thumbs up or thumbs down.  The atmosphere in the survey room was tense, and nerves were raw as Miller, the Aruban authorities and the crew of the Persistence waited for word of what exactly was in the trap. The divers approached the target and signaled above. And then...

(On the boat) No it's thumbs down. Negative, not it.

Crushing disappointment.

(On the boat) Tim Miller: Divers coming up right now. I don't know it looked as promising today as it did last night or before.

Miller: Nothing?

Trahan: No.

Chris Hansen: That had to be a crushing blow.

Tim Miller: It was a crushing blow.
 
Now Tim Miller had to deliver that same crushing blow to Natalee’s parents.

Chris Hansen: How hard is it for you to dial their numbers and tell them that this in fact is not the break in the case we-- we hoped for?

Tim Miller: Probably one of the hardest calls I ever made. Probably one of the hardest … probably should have never made the first one. But everything looked right at the time.

Natalee’s father was at home in Mississippi when the call came.

Chris Hansen: What was it like for you to, once again, have a setback?

Dave Holloway: That's probably about the time that-- the chest pains intensified to an extreme. I mean, how many times can I take this?

Beth Holloway: You know, it's a disappointment. But, you have to look at the magnitude and the sacrifices being made even to get to that point.

Chris Hansen: You didn't know these folks before this happened. What do they represent to you now?
 
Dave Holloway: They represent heroes to me.
 
To be sure there was no relevant evidence, material from the trap was given to the FBI.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

[/quote]
I am not denigrating Tim, Beth, and Dave. There is a good reason why they did not want the info out there. I think they were trying to find out just exactly who owned or put that trap there. Going public with everything they know isn't always a good thing. I certainly don't begrudge them trying to " mislead" us. They don't owe US anything. I also think the family is holding back a few tidbits of evidence --- more power to them.

[Tamikosmom]

Part 4 of the following YouTube download of the Dateline program pertains to the dive ... pertains to the words of Tim Miller, Dave Holloway and Beth Holloway Twitty.

Janet

+++++++++++++
 
DATELINE - FEBRUARY 22, 2008

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qPcVNZOp4tI&feature=related
Part 1

http://youtube.com/watch?v=D-uzUb1SxKA&feature=related
Part 2

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WkQ10zKh4S0&feature=related
Part 3

http://youtube.com/watch?v=z5B0t2cyGzs&feature=related
Part 4

+++++++++++++++

The search for Natalee Holloway
It's the story you haven't heard: the tale of two parents who, even now, willgo anywhere -- and endure anything -- to find answers.

TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/2/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/3/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/

[Tater]

I don't think Beth has made any comment yet concerning the pictures has she?  Dave did but I have not seen anything from Beth.

I would love to read Dave's comments on it. I respect Dave tremendously and though I haven't seen him in years, I have a lot of affection for him. He was half of a team that produced a young man whom I think is a great guy, who still walks on this earth, and who gets far too little attention for his own good:) He gets as much as he wants!

Do you have his comments?

Rrivate,

I think there is a transcript posted in the Media Thread with the links to the Dateline program.  From memory, it is around Reply 192 or193.  Transcript as well as link to the vids by Carpe and I believe posted by *******.

To me, that huge trap doesn't look like it has been moved or used for anything in years.  If a Post Office, not a very busy one.  All that diving would be a lot of trouble and risky to leave "the mail" unattended as someone else could come along and take it.  Just doesn't seem very practical for drug storage and retrieval. 

jmo

That's the way I see it too.Two fast boats could meet on top of the water and do an exchange and speed away much easier than sending down divers to deposit it and then back down to retrieve it.That would be very time consuming and they don't work like that.Makes no sense at all to me..

[private eye]

I don't think Beth has made any comment yet concerning the pictures has she?  Dave did but I have not seen anything from Beth.

I would love to read Dave's comments on it. I respect Dave tremendously and though I haven't seen him in years, I have a lot of affection for him. He was half of a team that produced a young man whom I think is a great guy, who still walks on this earth, and who gets far too little attention for his own good:) He gets as much as he wants!

Do you have his comments?

PI ... Dateline quote both Dave and Beth's reactions regarding the contents of the cage/trape.  Please read my post.

Dave's words were heartbreaking.

Thank you.

Janet

So this is the only finding that was significant. I know Beth was devastated by one significant find, literally. I guess it was after Christmas and apparently before New Years. For days. Of course then she was devastated by the re- arrest, and then the video of Joran. There were 3 right in a row and to be honest the dates are blurring for me.

I don't guess this is a secret, and I sure hope it isn't, but for some reason she is taking the Persistence abortion of the search very chipper for lack of better words, and she had high high expectations of this endeavor. Not the least bit of remorse or disappointment. Thats why I am content to say while I certainly don't understand the comment, everything must be on the up and up. And if she is happy with them, I am. But I don't understand.

Thats why I always try and clarify that Joran is a dumb ass teen, or was, and other than wanting to spank his ass, rather hard I admit, and have him pay a price, including telling the truth, and forcing myself to hope he can become strong enough to reverse his life, get right, and have a second chance.

As for his parents and the other adults, I can never forgive them for what they have put Beth and Dave thru and I truly hope they get a taste of what a living hell is. As to their claim they have been punished already, I say bull shit, you haven't even had a taste of what Beth and Dave had. I pray I never meet them.

[jackb]

Destiny, you must have spoken with Baghdad Bob.

He would make a good (in)action figure.  I thought he was so funny if the situation was not so serious.     Jackb

[wreck]

PI

I don't guess this is a secret, and I sure hope it isn't, but for some reason she is taking the Persistence abortion of the search very chipper for lack of better words, and she had high high expectations of this endeavor. Not the least bit of remorse or disappointment. Thats why I am content to say while I certainly don't understand the comment, everything must be on the up and up. And if she is happy with them, I am. But I don't understand.

hmmm
I haven't seen too much regret from The Persistence crew, either.

[Tater]

Private Eye,
  It seem's to me that if Beth knew for sure it was Natalee in that cage,I just don't think she'd be chipper.Even though she knows Natalee is gone,there would still be a huge sense of grief overwhelming her.What mother could ever be chipper after seeing her daughter's remains on the ocean floor trapped in a steel cage.You see,that makes no sense either..Chipper about something*finally busting the thugs* maybe, but not that. ::MonkeyNoNo::JMO..God love her!!!

[wreck]

Private Eye,
  It seem's to me that if Beth knew for sure it was Natalee in that cage,I just don't think she'd be chipper.Even though she knows Natalee is gone,there would still be a huge sense of grief overwhelming her.What mother could ever be chipper after seeing her daughter's remains on the ocean floor trapped in a steel cage.You see,that makes no sense either..Chipper about something*finally busting the thugs* maybe, but not that. ::MonkeyNoNo::JMO..God love her!!!

well, it's been a couple of months since the photos were taken.

[private eye]

You are misundestanding. I think the divers "giving the thumbs down" was staged as to not give away what they really found. The photos are REAL and perhaps really do show remains.

Wreck ... if Tim Miller ... Dave Holloway and ... Beth Holloway staged the following deception ... then Tamikomom's unwavering trust of these three for almost three years has been negated.

Wreck ... silence regarding aspects of an investigation is where it is at ... not lies ... not a collaborated deception on American  DATELINE.  A charade to deceive was not necessary.

I give Tim Miller ... Dave Holloway and ... Beth Twitty Hollloway ... the benefit of the doubt.  They were all speaking the truth ... there was nothing connected to Natalee Holloway in that enormous cage/trap.

I am done!

Janet

+++++++++++++


The search for Natalee Holloway
It's the story you haven't heard: the tale of two parents who, even now, willgo anywhere -- and endure anything -- to find answers.

TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

On Dec. 30, off the coast of Aruba, divers from the Aruban police force and the research vessel Persistence were about to make a crucial dive on a promising target in the search for Natalee Holloway.
 
The researchers had discovered a fish trap about 90 feet below the surface in almost the exact spot search expert Tim Miller had theorized Natalee’s body might be.

Team leader Tim Trahan suited up to join the Aruban police divers. As Tim Miller wished him well, the divers hit the water and the ROV was sent down to capture what would happen for everyone watching on board.

(On the boat) Brandon: We have visual on divers and target.

Slowly the divers worked their way down to the trap. They had been instructed to give a thumbs up or thumbs down.  The atmosphere in the survey room was tense, and nerves were raw as Miller, the Aruban authorities and the crew of the Persistence waited for word of what exactly was in the trap. The divers approached the target and signaled above. And then...

(On the boat) No it's thumbs down. Negative, not it.

Crushing disappointment.

(On the boat) Tim Miller: Divers coming up right now. I don't know it looked as promising today as it did last night or before.

Miller: Nothing?

Trahan: No.

Chris Hansen: That had to be a crushing blow.

Tim Miller: It was a crushing blow.
 
Now Tim Miller had to deliver that same crushing blow to Natalee’s parents.

Chris Hansen: How hard is it for you to dial their numbers and tell them that this in fact is not the break in the case we-- we hoped for?

Tim Miller: Probably one of the hardest calls I ever made. Probably one of the hardest … probably should have never made the first one. But everything looked right at the time.

Natalee’s father was at home in Mississippi when the call came.

Chris Hansen: What was it like for you to, once again, have a setback?

Dave Holloway: That's probably about the time that-- the chest pains intensified to an extreme. I mean, how many times can I take this?

Beth Holloway: You know, it's a disappointment. But, you have to look at the magnitude and the sacrifices being made even to get to that point.

Chris Hansen: You didn't know these folks before this happened. What do they represent to you now?
 
Dave Holloway: They represent heroes to me.
 
To be sure there was no relevant evidence, material from the trap was given to the FBI.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

I am not denigrating Tim, Beth, and Dave. There is a good reason why they did not want the info out there. I think they were trying to find out just exactly who owned or put that trap there. Going public with everything they know isn't always a good thing. I certainly don't begrudge them trying to " mislead" us. They don't owe US anything. I also think the family is holding back a few tidbits of evidence --- more power to them.
[/quote]

The family has no reason on earth to with hold any evidence. If there is something they know that is relavant in even a remote sense, they have not offered it because they do not know what it is that the investigation needs.  If there is something needed that is needed, please find out what it is so we can get whomever what it is that they need.

But maybe I wasn't clear in what I said. What I meant to say was I question the statement that the internet and media is what has harmed the investigation and that the allies the Persistence believes is the Aruban police and  prosecutor. I did mention that transparency worked for the Peterson case.

[wreck]

I probably said that wrong ....... not "withholding evidence" -- but more like not revealing EVERYTHING they know to the public.

[private eye]

Private Eye,
  It seem's to me that if Beth knew for sure it was Natalee in that cage,I just don't think she'd be chipper.Even though she knows Natalee is gone,there would still be a huge sense of grief overwhelming her.What mother could ever be chipper after seeing her daughter's remains on the ocean floor trapped in a steel cage.You see,that makes no sense either..Chipper about something*finally busting the thugs* maybe, but not that. ::MonkeyNoNo::JMO..God love her!!!

well, it's been a couple of months since the photos were taken.

She was not upset with the Persistence returning home. She was devastated by a signifcant finding, which turned out false, apparently back in December. Two completely separate events I thought.