Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 - 3/5/08

[Jo-An]

Peter R de Vries on Robert Jensen Show

-talking about the book-incident on DWDD, they show the clip
-tomorrow Beth will be on, pre-recorded, Beth told Robert that she's very grateful to Peter
-behind the scenes a lot going on, investigation re-opened
-Joran still murder-suspect
-cannot be solved within one week, takes time
-Robert could tell that when Joran was on his show, that he was holding back, 99% of the audience felt that too, not that he was lying but he was holding back information, he knew more than he was letting on
-Peter's investigation in 2006, was clear to Peter then that Joran was involved, it's strange that Joran wanted to remain silent, if you're innocent all you want to do is tell the truth, not remain silent. Joran couldn't answer the simplest questions
-Peter asked questions on P&W-show (wine incident) Joran couldn't or wouldn't answer
-Peter's wife said to Anita on P&W-show, while she was helping Peter getting wine out of his eyes: "You educated your son well" in a very sarcastic way
-Peter still talks to Beth on a regular basis

[caesu]

Brinkman called the Antilles and Aruba "a largely corrupt gangsters' nest' and Jan van der Straten, then police chief of Bonaire, threatened to arrest him after the parlaimentary working trip got aborted after Brinkmans comments.

Not sure if you saw this Caesu? It makes me wonder if that had anything to do with them not extending Van Der Stratens contract in Bonaire?

www.amigoe.com/english/ on February 24


Bonaire still without corps leader

KRALENDIJK – Since Jan van Straten left late January, Bonaire is still without a chief of police.  His contract ran out per February 1.  Justice-minister David Dick (PAR) regrets the fact that the Netherlands didn’t cooperate and let Van der Straten stay a little longer until a new chief of police was appointed.

Van der Straten works for the Dutch police and they decided that he had to go back. The council of ministers would decide on a new chief of police this month in anticipation of the application committee.  The corps of police is currently led by chief inspector Oscar Obispo.  Minister Dick confirmed this morning that no decision was made yet on the chief of police.  He said two weeks ago:  “We will make sure that Bonaire gets a good chief of police.”

yes, i heard that they usually get 3 years contract with possible extension.
that's also why it is very probable that Hans Mos and Dop Kruimel go back to The Netherlands in 2009 and get replaced by new prosecutors (from The Netherlands).
Karin Janssen also had 3 year contract.

so Mos and Kruimel just have to sit their island adventure out. and never come back on the island afterwards.
that's one reason why i find those contract periods so bad. colonial attitude.
but there are not enough qualified arubans to do that job.
or arubans who studied law rather work in the netherlands maybe.

i doubt one is really committed i they have a safe exit strategy anyway.

[Peaches]

well I had a really nice talk with my brother  I have mentioned before that he is a commerical fisherman from way up the northeast coast  He knows alot about crab pots as they are called  I hope no one minds that I sent them to him and waiting to see what he thinks of it  But so far what he has told me is this:   

crab pots are made of cold rolled steel, mesh, framed door and funnels for what ever you are wanting to catch can get in.  They put zinc on them to keep them from rusting.  They have different sizes;  7ft x 8ft weighs about 1000lbs,  7ft x 7ft weighs about 800lbs, the old timers had ones that were 4ft x 5ft about 300lbs and did push them off the boat by hand.  If you wanted to take one and put it on the ocean bottom you would need a commerical fishing boat at least 25ft with a wench so you can pick it up.   He also said that if you wanted young strong guys to do it, it would take about 5 or 6 and you would have to bait them with something to get them to do it. LOL  They are very hard to move from say a beach or boat with out the right equipment.  If you wanted to put something say in a pot on the bottom and did not have a big boat or the right equipment you could just get a diver with scuba dive gear to go say 90ft

My BIL would be one of the "old timers" and he'd pop ya right in the mouth for saying that!  I think his cage was about  4 x 5.  He did have a winch onboard.  We put overboard to drag for interesting stuff in Cape Cod Bay just for grins. 

[Tamikosmom]

Any estimations as to the dimensions and weight of the cage, or based upon the general conditions of the cage, coral build up, rust, etc. how long the cage had been submersed? It looked awfully large, but water can distort sizes to a certain extent. It looked a lot larger than the cages that would have been at the fishermans hut.

The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  You're correct about the ROV video lens distorting perspective due to the paralax view lens. 

Thank you Kyle.

The size of the trap/cage did appear so much larger in the image on Dateline.  The divers appeared very small in comparison.

Janet

+++++++++

Dr. Hodges:

The fisherman described the cage as made of 3/8-inch iron (such as that used in concrete reinforcing—"rebar") with a frame size approximately 5 ½ feet by 4 feet by 17 inches. He described it as a large fishing cage with its frame wrapped in chicken wire with its familiar hexagonal openings but with an opening in one panel which allowed them to trap fish. He believed that, given its size and weight, it would take two men to manage the cage. Once aboard, it would lay low on the floor of the nearby fishing boat.

http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html

[JE]

Brinkman called the Antilles and Aruba "a largely corrupt gangsters' nest' and Jan van der Straten, then police chief of Bonaire, threatened to arrest him after the parlaimentary working trip got aborted after Brinkmans comments.

Not sure if you saw this Caesu? It makes me wonder if that had anything to do with them not extending Van Der Stratens contract in Bonaire?

www.amigoe.com/english/ on February 24


Bonaire still without corps leader

KRALENDIJK – Since Jan van Straten left late January, Bonaire is still without a chief of police.  His contract ran out per February 1.  Justice-minister David Dick (PAR) regrets the fact that the Netherlands didn’t cooperate and let Van der Straten stay a little longer until a new chief of police was appointed.

Van der Straten works for the Dutch police and they decided that he had to go back. The council of ministers would decide on a new chief of police this month in anticipation of the application committee.  The corps of police is currently led by chief inspector Oscar Obispo.  Minister Dick confirmed this morning that no decision was made yet on the chief of police.  He said two weeks ago:  “We will make sure that Bonaire gets a good chief of police.”

The reason van der straten wanted to arresr brinkman was for the remarks about them being corrupt. On top of that Brinkman has said something along the lines of: Why havent we sold these islands on marktplaats.nl yet(Marktplaats=something like ebay). Straten said he would arrest him if he made that kind of comments while in Bonaire

[suisse71]

I have to run out for the evening.  I'm not commenting more at this time about the trap or it's contents. 

1. Why not? You must be aware there is more speculation than facts in these forums.

2. If you refuse to comment on the contents we will have to assume, remains were found and your response is a legalistic "no comment"

He has told us what he could, and we really shouldn't pressure him to disclose more. He wants to be friendly and helpful, but he has boundaries imposed on him. I say we just enjoy his conversation when he feels free to talk to us.

Exactly!   

Kyle, thank you so much to you and the team.  I really appreciate all that you guys have done and continue to do.  God Bless you and The Persistence team.

j4n!!!

[JE]

Peter R de Vries on Robert Jensen Show

-talking about the book-incident on DWDD, they show the clip
-tomorrow Beth will be on, pre-recorded, Beth told Robert that she's very grateful to Peter
-behind the scenes a lot going on, investigation re-opened
-Joran still murder-suspect
-cannot be solved within one week, takes time
-Robert could tell that when Joran was on his show, that he was holding back, 99% of the audience felt that too, not that he was lying but he was holding back information, he knew more than he was letting on
-Peter's investigation in 2006, was clear to Peter then that Joran was involved, it's strange that Joran wanted to remain silent, if you're innocent all you want to do is tell the truth, not remain silent. Joran couldn't answer the simplest questions
-Peter asked questions on P&W-show (wine incident) Joran couldn't or wouldn't answer
-Peter's wife said to Anita on P&W-show, while she was helping Peter getting wine out of his eyes: "You educated your son well" in a very sarcastic way
-Peter still talks to Beth on a regular basis

At the end he said something about anita and pauls attitude. During the show (P&W) they were defending their son, good boy, nice to people, respectful to girls, etc and that if they had any reason to believe that he was involved they would take him to the police themselves. He then added that this would be a good moment to go see the authorities and have a serious talk.

[Observer]

Brinkman called the Antilles and Aruba "a largely corrupt gangsters' nest' and Jan van der Straten, then police chief of Bonaire, threatened to arrest him after the parlaimentary working trip got aborted after Brinkmans comments.

The reason van der straten wanted to arresr brinkman was for the remarks about them being corrupt. On top of that Brinkman has said something along the lines of: Why havent we sold these islands on marktplaats.nl yet(Marktplaats=something like ebay). Straten said he would arrest him if he made that kind of comments while in Bonaire

TY! It was said that years ago he worked for Paul Van Der Sloot and that is most likely where they became good friends. We know that Rudy Croes was very upset with wire tapping in June 2005 and we suspect that was between JANVDS and PVDS,We know just from Jorans book that they were probably in contact on a regular basis but I guess that is obvious.

I wonder what Van Der Stratens next assignment will be? We heard last night from Jossy he is in Aruba but not involved in this case.

[Bladerunner]

Brinkman called the Antilles and Aruba "a largely corrupt gangsters' nest' and Jan van der Straten, then police chief of Bonaire, threatened to arrest him after the parlaimentary working trip got aborted after Brinkmans comments.

The reason van der straten wanted to arresr brinkman was for the remarks about them being corrupt. On top of that Brinkman has said something along the lines of: Why havent we sold these islands on marktplaats.nl yet(Marktplaats=something like ebay). Straten said he would arrest him if he made that kind of comments while in Bonaire

TY! It was said that years ago he worked for Paul Van Der Sloot and that is most likely where they became good friends. We know that Rudy Croes was very upset with wire tapping in June 2005 and we suspect that was between JANVDS and PVDS,We know just from Jorans book that they were probably in contact on a regular basis but I guess that is obvious.

I wonder what Van Der Stratens next assignment will be? We heard last night from Jossy he is in Aruba but not involved in this case.

Not in any "official capacity" at least!   

[Peaches]

Great synopsis, Jo Ann!  Thank you so much.

PS...My tulips are popping up!  Daffodils too. 

[dsmith]

well I had a really nice talk with my brother  I have mentioned before that he is a commerical fisherman from way up the northeast coast  He knows alot about crab pots as they are called  I hope no one minds that I sent them to him and waiting to see what he thinks of it  But so far what he has told me is this:   

crab pots are made of cold rolled steel, mesh, framed door and funnels for what ever you are wanting to catch can get in.  They put zinc on them to keep them from rusting.  They have different sizes;  7ft x 8ft weighs about 1000lbs,  7ft x 7ft weighs about 800lbs, the old timers had ones that were 4ft x 5ft about 300lbs and did push them off the boat by hand.  If you wanted to take one and put it on the ocean bottom you would need a commerical fishing boat at least 25ft with a wench so you can pick it up.   He also said that if you wanted young strong guys to do it, it would take about 5 or 6 and you would have to bait them with something to get them to do it. LOL  They are very hard to move from say a beach or boat with out the right equipment.  If you wanted to put something say in a pot on the bottom and did not have a big boat or the right equipment you could just get a diver with scuba dive gear to go say 90ft

My BIL would be one of the "old timers" and he'd pop ya right in the mouth for saying that!  I think his cage was about  4 x 5.  He did have a winch onboard.  We put overboard to drag for interesting stuff in Cape Cod Bay just for grins. 

yes I have been popped a few times for saying things out of turn or just speaking my mind  when you drag you never know what you might find maybe some treasure of some sort

[Dayhiker]

Wanted to shout out to our Dutch Monkeys and tell you how much I enjoy reading your posts and appreciate your updates from the media in Holland. Wish we'd had you here from the start and didn't have to get our information from the Dutch trolls who were in the Van der Sloot camp. Welcome!
 
 

[GBMW]

Beth will be on Jensen show tomorrow but..... tonite Peter R de Vries will be on!!!
Starts in 10 mins!!!!!! 
Will keep you updated.

  thank you Jo-An.....love Peter!!! 

i can't stand jensen but of course i will watch this and tomorrow beth!
i hope peter r. will give a hint of what he is up to next.
but i doubt that, i think he won't show his cards too early.

i am almost sure it will be uploaded to usenet same as all previous jensen shows.
so i watch it from there tomorrow so i can skip the idols appearance.
i might upload it then to youtube if it is not there yet.
mabe i try to add subtitles but i have too study how to do this with a tool like vobsub.

Short summary:
He was just on..nice interview. No real news / scoops; just a conversation about De Wereld Draait Door (not related to Natalee) - wine throwing incident - the Pauw & Witteman interview and that he has regular contact with Beth.

Robert Jensen made the comment that after the confession nothing seemed to have happened. Peter said that before the case was closed, Joran wanted to claim money etc and now the investigation is open again; he is a murdersuspect & that they're working very hard on the case (and the way he said it made it look like he is in contact with people who are doing the investigation...but that's not really a surprise...) but results aren't there overnight.
Peter also stated that after he went to Aruba to investigate, talk to people, see the surroundings were it all happened he was sure that Joran knew more...if you've got nothing to hide / are innocent you don't keep your mouth shut...

They also talked about Jorans' parents...they claimed in the Pauw & Witteman interview they would have brought Joran to the police if they thought that he had something to do with it or knew more...Peter joked: Well they still have to go!

[Dayhiker]

Peter R de Vries on Robert Jensen Show

-talking about the book-incident on DWDD, they show the clip
-tomorrow Beth will be on, pre-recorded, Beth told Robert that she's very grateful to Peter
-behind the scenes a lot going on, investigation re-opened
-Joran still murder-suspect
-cannot be solved within one week, takes time
-Robert could tell that when Joran was on his show, that he was holding back, 99% of the audience felt that too, not that he was lying but he was holding back information, he knew more than he was letting on
-Peter's investigation in 2006, was clear to Peter then that Joran was involved, it's strange that Joran wanted to remain silent, if you're innocent all you want to do is tell the truth, not remain silent. Joran couldn't answer the simplest questions
-Peter asked questions on P&W-show (wine incident) Joran couldn't or wouldn't answer
-Peter's wife said to Anita on P&W-show, while she was helping Peter getting wine out of his eyes: "You educated your son well" in a very sarcastic way
-Peter still talks to Beth on a regular basis

Thanks Jo-An, a lot of good nuggets in there! Love this one:

-Peter's investigation in 2006, was clear to Peter then that Joran was involved, it's strange that Joran wanted to remain silent, if you're innocent all you want to do is tell the truth, not remain silent. Joran couldn't answer the simplest questions

[ala_gunslinger]

Peter R de Vries on Robert Jensen Show

-talking about the book-incident on DWDD, they show the clip
-tomorrow Beth will be on, pre-recorded, Beth told Robert that she's very grateful to Peter
-behind the scenes a lot going on, investigation re-opened
-Joran still murder-suspect
-cannot be solved within one week, takes time
-Robert could tell that when Joran was on his show, that he was holding back, 99% of the audience felt that too, not that he was lying but he was holding back information, he knew more than he was letting on
-Peter's investigation in 2006, was clear to Peter then that Joran was involved, it's strange that Joran wanted to remain silent, if you're innocent all you want to do is tell the truth, not remain silent. Joran couldn't answer the simplest questions
-Peter asked questions on P&W-show (wine incident) Joran couldn't or wouldn't answer
-Peter's wife said to Anita on P&W-show, while she was helping Peter getting wine out of his eyes: "You educated your son well" in a very sarcastic way
-Peter still talks to Beth on a regular basis

At the end he said something about anita and pauls attitude. During the show (P&W) they were defending their son, good boy, nice to people, respectful to girls, etc and that if they had any reason to believe that he was involved they would take him to the police themselves. He then added that this would be a good moment to go see the authorities and have a serious talk.

Good Shot!!!!

[Observer]

Jo-ann I think you posted about friends of jurin's currently posting that his 2 younger brothers where in Netherlands with avds.  THANK YOU FOR THAT INFO!!!!!!  Many of us here were given that same info in June 2005 by people in aruba and not friends of the people of the ditch (love that name!).  Also a Monkey found out that 3 people of the ditch (3 van der sloots) flew from nl to aruba the day avds said she came home around June 1.  IMO, pvds needed his younger sons home for an alibi and that is when that story change.  Thanks again for posting that info.

Here are the posts from Fok.

Beth Holloway in Jensen tomorrow? I'll have a look.

kinkajoe
donderdag 28 februari 2008 @ 18:12 (#27)   
         
Op zaterdag 23 februari 2008 15:56 schreef mrBhimself het volgende:
En overigens Anita van der Sloot was helemaal niet in Amerika, maar was samen met haar jongste twee kinderen in Nederland op bezoek bij haar moeder. Je bent wederom eens slecht geinformeerd!
Volgens deze poster was Mw. v.d. Sloot met twee kinderen in Nederland.

 mrBhimself
donderdag 28 februari 2008 @ 18:56 (#28)   
                 
Inderdaad
Don't follow leaders, watch the parking meters

Mr B says: "and by the way, Anita van der Sloot was not at all in America, but with her youngest two children in Holland to visit her mother. You are again very bad informed"

Kinkajoe quotes this sentence in a thread about the brothers and says: "according to this poster Mrs. v.d. Sloot was with two children in Holland".

Mr B came to the thread about the brothers to say: "Indeed, don't follow leaders, watch the parking meters".

Very interesting and that is what many believe that Anita was not in Holland alone. Kind of ridiculous to think she would leave a 10 year old home alone with Joran,especially after the things he does to the middle sibling. I suspect that it wasnt just Joran who was at play while Anita was away!

[JE]

Maybe a stupid question but can anyone tell me who Rita is

From PVDS PB june 23

After depositing the money I went home. I cannot exactly remember
what time it was when I got home. I think it was 16.15 hours. According
to me both Rita and Joran where at home.

[Observer]

Maybe a stupid question but can anyone tell me who Rita is

From PVDS PB june 23

After depositing the money I went home. I cannot exactly remember
what time it was when I got home. I think it was 16.15 hours. According
to me both Rita and Joran where at home.

The Maid

[Dayhiker]

Short summary:
He was just on..nice interview. No real news / scoops; just a conversation about De Wereld Draait Door (not related to Natalee) - wine throwing incident - the Pauw & Witteman interview and that he has regular contact with Beth.

Robert Jensen made the comment that after the confession nothing seemed to have happened. Peter said that before the case was closed, Joran wanted to claim money etc and now the investigation is open again; he is a murdersuspect & that they're working very hard on the case (and the way he said it made it look like he is in contact with people who are doing the investigation...but that's not really a surprise...) but results aren't there overnight.
Peter also stated that after he went to Aruba to investigate, talk to people, see the surroundings were it all happened he was sure that Joran knew more...if you've got nothing to hide / are innocent you don't keep your mouth shut...

They also talked about Jorans' parents...they claimed in the Pauw & Witteman interview they would have brought Joran to the police if they thought that he had something to do with it or knew more...Peter joked: Well they still have to go!

Thanks GMBW and a belated welcome to the board. One thing that has been persistently missing in the Dutch media is the corruption angle in Aruba. It's so damn obvious. I wish they would jump on that more. I hope this is something Peter is working on behind the scenes.

[JE]

Maybe a stupid question but can anyone tell me who Rita is

From PVDS PB june 23

After depositing the money I went home. I cannot exactly remember
what time it was when I got home. I think it was 16.15 hours. According
to me both Rita and Joran where at home.

Nevermind the maid srry i asked lol