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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 - 3/5/08  (Read 299390 times)
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Tater
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« Reply #260 on: March 03, 2008, 07:10:28 PM »

Assassinated or missing in Venezuela

Carlos Augusto Aumatrie (assassinated)
Juan Carlos Urbano Lugo (assassinated)
Jose Manuel Vilas Liñera (assassinated)
Omar Arturo Morales
Juan Jose Perez
Juan Ernesto Sanchez
Andres Bastidas Guedes
Jose Luis Rodriguez
Eduardo Jose Miranda
Julio Cesar Gomez
Rafael Tomas Pulido Marcano (APPEARED BADLY TORTURED)
Pedro Jose Sanchez Robles (assassinated)
William Alvarez Morales (assassinated)
Yormy Rafael Suarez Riveros (assassinated)
Evangelina Carrizo (assassinated)
Dictor Damas (assassinated)
Bruno Biella (assassinated)
Marvin Carrasco
Nelly Rodriguez Martinez (assassinated)
Jose Guevara Reyes (assassinated)
Juan Carlos Zambrano (assassinated)
Argenis Dugarte (assassinated)
Jose Guevara Reyes (assassinated)
Jose Sanchez Robles (assassinated)
Jose Luis Ricaurte (assassinated)
José Antonio Quero
Carlos Armando López Martínez
Nelson Alexander Batista
Orlando Antonio Bustamante, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Ángel Ciro Pedreáñez, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Maritza Ron, assassinated in Altamira Square on August 16th 2004
Silvino Bustillos. Gone missing on October 31 2004. Has not been seen since. Allegedly tortured and assassinated by a Military Intelligence squad commanded by National Guard Lieutenant Danny Alfredo Daniels Perez.
Antonio Lopez Castillo, assassinated by the State police
Juan Carlos Sanchez, assassinated by the State police
Romer Luján, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Raúl Royett Gutiérrez, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Leonardo González Lárez (student), assassinated by a military police death squad on June 27th 2005
Edgar Quintero Torrealba (student), assassinated by a military police death squad on June 27th 2005
Erick Miguel Montenegro Sánchez (student), assassinated by a military police death squad on June 27th 2005

http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200403020624

Just no telling who it is in that trap down there if it's human...
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« Reply #261 on: March 03, 2008, 07:11:50 PM »

Peter R de Vries on Robert Jensen Show

-talking about the book-incident on DWDD, they show the clip
-tomorrow Beth will be on, pre-recorded, Beth told Robert that she's very grateful to Peter
-behind the scenes a lot going on, investigation re-opened
-Joran still murder-suspect
-cannot be solved within one week, takes time
-Robert could tell that when Joran was on his show, that he was holding back, 99% of the audience felt that too, not that he was lying but he was holding back information, he knew more than he was letting on
-Peter's investigation in 2006, was clear to Peter then that Joran was involved, it's strange that Joran wanted to remain silent, if you're innocent all you want to do is tell the truth, not remain silent. Joran couldn't answer the simplest questions
-Peter asked questions on P&W-show (wine incident) Joran couldn't or wouldn't answer
-Peter's wife said to Anita on P&W-show, while she was helping Peter getting wine out of his eyes: "You educated your son well" in a very sarcastic way
-Peter still talks to Beth on a regular basis
HAHAHA!
I knew Peter's wife said something sarcastic to anita,thank you Jo-An


Anita's reply was: it seems like i didn't

I also watched it tonight, what i didnt saw at pauw en witteman with the wine throwing incident is that Peters wife immediately throw water in Jorans face.. quick reaction 
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Miss Scarlet
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« Reply #262 on: March 03, 2008, 07:19:15 PM »



Same object that appears to be a skull with color removed and flipped the pic around



This reminds me of the book by Iris Johansen called Face of Deception..Creepy indeed..

I too think it is a skull.  If it is in fact a skull and DNA proves it not to be Natalee, I hope they let one of those talented people recreate the face.  There is a woman in the US who is particularly excellent at this skill and has worked with many in law enforcement on especially difficult and mysterious cases, but her name escapes me at the moment.

How weird that that subject is what this book is about...Very scarey read..

That might be her - not sure.  The woman I was referring to has worked with John Walsh on several high profile cases.  One that comes to mind is the one in south Florida where a hiker stumbled upon eight (I think) skeletal remains.  She recreated all their faces and was so accurate they were almost all immediately identified by their families.  The reconstructions side by side by the persons photographs were remarkable.  Absolutely amazing.
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« Reply #263 on: March 03, 2008, 07:26:56 PM »

Assassinated or missing in Venezuela

Carlos Augusto Aumatrie (assassinated)
Juan Carlos Urbano Lugo (assassinated)
Jose Manuel Vilas Liñera (assassinated)
Omar Arturo Morales
Juan Jose Perez
Juan Ernesto Sanchez
Andres Bastidas Guedes
Jose Luis Rodriguez
Eduardo Jose Miranda
Julio Cesar Gomez
Rafael Tomas Pulido Marcano (APPEARED BADLY TORTURED)
Pedro Jose Sanchez Robles (assassinated)
William Alvarez Morales (assassinated)
Yormy Rafael Suarez Riveros (assassinated)
Evangelina Carrizo (assassinated)
Dictor Damas (assassinated)
Bruno Biella (assassinated)
Marvin Carrasco
Nelly Rodriguez Martinez (assassinated)
Jose Guevara Reyes (assassinated)
Juan Carlos Zambrano (assassinated)
Argenis Dugarte (assassinated)
Jose Guevara Reyes (assassinated)
Jose Sanchez Robles (assassinated)
Jose Luis Ricaurte (assassinated)
José Antonio Quero
Carlos Armando López Martínez
Nelson Alexander Batista
Orlando Antonio Bustamante, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Ángel Ciro Pedreáñez, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Maritza Ron, assassinated in Altamira Square on August 16th 2004
Silvino Bustillos. Gone missing on October 31 2004. Has not been seen since. Allegedly tortured and assassinated by a Military Intelligence squad commanded by National Guard Lieutenant Danny Alfredo Daniels Perez.
Antonio Lopez Castillo, assassinated by the State police
Juan Carlos Sanchez, assassinated by the State police
Romer Luján, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Raúl Royett Gutiérrez, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Leonardo González Lárez (student), assassinated by a military police death squad on June 27th 2005
Edgar Quintero Torrealba (student), assassinated by a military police death squad on June 27th 2005
Erick Miguel Montenegro Sánchez (student), assassinated by a military police death squad on June 27th 2005

http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200403020624

Just no telling who it is in that trap down there if it's human...


yes it is said that venezuela is the most dangerous country in s-america and caracas the most dangerous city.
of course this is disputable, but dangerous it is for a fact.
coming week a dutch travel program starts and they hitchhike from mexico to venezuela.
i am sure they've got a lot of bodyguards with them in venezuela. must have.
as a tourist you can't go for a walk in venezuelan city. as a local it is fine.
if a money transport has to visit a bank they've got half an army battalion surroundig the bank and blocking a streets with huge automatic machine guns ready to fire pointing in all directions. i thought wtf is happening here. it was just a regular money transport.

colombia has their coast protected in some way so drugs can go to venezuela and then cariben and of to the us and europa.
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« Reply #264 on: March 03, 2008, 07:44:10 PM »

Can you just imagine the shock?....you send pictures
to the FBI and the next thing you know the pictures
are on the internet.


So foolish and so careless.   Stunning.

Where I work (and it's not a particularly exotic place), EVERYTHING is on a need-to-know basis. I can only imagine the shock I would feel if I gave something to someone in confidentiality and had it show up on the internet later. My first thought would be that I was in for an internal investigation and possibly the loss of my job. I'm not saying this to be ugly about anyone, just saying I can understand Kyle's reaction at seeing the photos on the web.


Most likely, the person so close to the case was tired and acted in reckless abandon before thinking.  [ I bet the FBI was surprised. ]
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« Reply #265 on: March 03, 2008, 07:46:03 PM »



nice necktie 
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« Reply #266 on: March 03, 2008, 07:46:49 PM »


Thanks GMBW and a belated welcome to the board. One thing that has been persistently missing in the Dutch media is the corruption angle in Aruba. It's so damn obvious. I wish they would jump on that more. I hope this is something Peter is working on behind the scenes.

I think the problem with "western" democracies is that the powers that rule want everyone to believe that corruption is a problem of third world countries. It only happens in the "bananna republics " of this planet. In our civilized societies, Europe, the US etc there is no such thing. WRONG it happens everywhere at all levels. Most people in power have a personal agenda. Be it money, a need for power, status, whatever. We just seem to have a notion that it is better, so that no one is embarrassed, to promote people that are under suspicion of corruption away to another job or position. I firmly believe that the corruption angle is visible to the guy on the street but he or she simply does not have the means to do anything about it. The people in power if pressured enough will switch a few pawns around until the general public seems to be pleased with the solution they came up with, and then it's bussiness as usual.



I see corruption everywhere JE, just not as blatant and obvious as it was in Natalee's case. Typically there's nothing Americans relish more than stringing one of their own up who are caught with their hand in the till. Aruba is different for several reasons. First off we are talking about a person's life being taken and people in a wide variety of the government participating in covering it up, from ALE to the prosecutor to the judges to the tourism authority and most likely all the top with Rudy and Nelson. No county or municipality in the US could get away with that. Those officials would be on trial in a heartbeat.

Secondly, they were so bad at it. The officials in Aruba must have known the first week they were under the microscope of the US media but they just kept covering it up and covering it up until it was too late to turn it around and get justice. A very stupid bunch of mothertruckers and they deserve to be boycotted until they get justice for Natalee and her family.
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« Reply #267 on: March 03, 2008, 07:53:57 PM »

Can you just imagine the shock?....you send pictures
to the FBI and the next thing you know the pictures
are on the internet.


So foolish and so careless.   Stunning.

Where I work (and it's not a particularly exotic place), EVERYTHING is on a need-to-know basis. I can only imagine the shock I would feel if I gave something to someone in confidentiality and had it show up on the internet later. My first thought would be that I was in for an internal investigation and possibly the loss of my job. I'm not saying this to be ugly about anyone, just saying I can understand Kyle's reaction at seeing the photos on the web.


Most likely, the person so close to the case was tired and acted in reckless abandon before thinking.  [ I bet the FBI was surprised. ]

Edited to add:.......and before sharing with someone who then turned around and posted them on the internet. 
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« Reply #268 on: March 03, 2008, 07:56:50 PM »

Peter R de Vries on Robert Jensen Show

-talking about the book-incident on DWDD, they show the clip
-tomorrow Beth will be on, pre-recorded, Beth told Robert that she's very grateful to Peter
-behind the scenes a lot going on, investigation re-opened
-Joran still murder-suspect
-cannot be solved within one week, takes time
-Robert could tell that when Joran was on his show, that he was holding back, 99% of the audience felt that too, not that he was lying but he was holding back information, he knew more than he was letting on
-Peter's investigation in 2006, was clear to Peter then that Joran was involved, it's strange that Joran wanted to remain silent, if you're innocent all you want to do is tell the truth, not remain silent. Joran couldn't answer the simplest questions
-Peter asked questions on P&W-show (wine incident) Joran couldn't or wouldn't answer
-Peter's wife said to Anita on P&W-show, while she was helping Peter getting wine out of his eyes: "You educated your son well" in a very sarcastic way
-Peter still talks to Beth on a regular basis
HAHAHA!
I knew Peter's wife said something sarcastic to anita,thank you Jo-An


Anita's reply was: it seems like i didn't
LOL....anita is in her self imposed"blind as a bat"mode.
Smile
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Dayhiker
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« Reply #269 on: March 03, 2008, 07:59:00 PM »


Why does this remind me a bit of Joran's last judicial review, before the case was (briefly) closed? Remember how Hans Mos, the prosecutor, suggested to the court that Joran is mentally ill? The judges evidently considered Mos statement in their decision to release Joran. This was done without the opinion of a qualified mental health professional.

Why did Mos, the prosecutor, suggest something that favours the defence argument? Why did the judges consider this suggestion with no evidence from a qualified professional to back it up?


This is the reason I do not trust Hans Less. He really appears to be just going through the motions and intentionally not trying which is, and you hit the nail on the head here Bluwaters, exactly what Karin Jannsen did. Hiding behind the ruse of Dutch law being highly secretive, which we found out later was a lie, she carried out her end of the cover-up without the public scrutiny Van der Straten abd Jacobs got but in the end it has been proven she was every bit as responsible. Certainly she saw Joran's early statements, the ones about the seizures, and colludeed with VDS and DJ to suppress them.
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« Reply #270 on: March 03, 2008, 08:01:13 PM »

Beth will be on Jensen show tomorrow but..... tonite Peter R de Vries will be on!!!
Starts in 10 mins!!!!!! 
Will keep you updated.

Jo-An  - Thanks!  I heard Beth will also be on Paul & Wittman (sp) tomorrow.

Do you happen to know if she will be the only guest? Uhmm...well that hasn't happened yet on that show so probably that's just wishfull thinking...perhaps with Peter R. de Vries & Patrick van der Eem (or is he still in Aruba)? Then they will really have some time to talk about the case / the corruption.


She will talk openly about the corruption GMBW, has done so in US media, I hope they get into it with her.
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« Reply #271 on: March 03, 2008, 08:03:00 PM »

Peter R de Vries on Robert Jensen Show

-talking about the book-incident on DWDD, they show the clip
-tomorrow Beth will be on, pre-recorded, Beth told Robert that she's very grateful to Peter
-behind the scenes a lot going on, investigation re-opened
-Joran still murder-suspect
-cannot be solved within one week, takes time
-Robert could tell that when Joran was on his show, that he was holding back, 99% of the audience felt that too, not that he was lying but he was holding back information, he knew more than he was letting on
-Peter's investigation in 2006, was clear to Peter then that Joran was involved, it's strange that Joran wanted to remain silent, if you're innocent all you want to do is tell the truth, not remain silent. Joran couldn't answer the simplest questions
-Peter asked questions on P&W-show (wine incident) Joran couldn't or wouldn't answer
-Peter's wife said to Anita on P&W-show, while she was helping Peter getting wine out of his eyes: "You educated your son well" in a very sarcastic way
-Peter still talks to Beth on a regular basis
HAHAHA!
I knew Peter's wife said something sarcastic to anita,thank you Jo-An


Anita's reply was: it seems like i didn't

JE   
Did Anita really say that? Are you making a joke?
If she really gave that answer, it sounds like she may be finally beginning to get a clue!
Wow! Anita - snap out of it 


LOL....I'm really enjoying your little smileys BluWaters
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Dayhiker
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« Reply #272 on: March 03, 2008, 08:03:17 PM »


i did have high hopes in nico jörg, the procureur general. that's is something like the one person down from rudy croes.
i read some good articles about him.
but he is the care taker procureur general since fernandez-croes announce stepping down by january 2008 but already went on leave juli 2007.
so i think very soon rudy croes will replace nico jörg with one of his cronies.
which is a shame because nico jörg seems to be a good one. but he got frustrated by rudy croes, that's what i read between the lines.
maybe he will speak out after he get replaced...


Nico did have the balls to castigate Paulus Van der Sloot in public, Caesu, will give him that. He is the only one down there working with the government who has had the cahones to do so.
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« Reply #273 on: March 03, 2008, 08:05:06 PM »

Assassinated or missing in Venezuela

Carlos Augusto Aumatrie (assassinated)
Juan Carlos Urbano Lugo (assassinated)
Jose Manuel Vilas Liñera (assassinated)
Omar Arturo Morales
Juan Jose Perez
Juan Ernesto Sanchez
Andres Bastidas Guedes
Jose Luis Rodriguez
Eduardo Jose Miranda
Julio Cesar Gomez
Rafael Tomas Pulido Marcano (APPEARED BADLY TORTURED)
Pedro Jose Sanchez Robles (assassinated)
William Alvarez Morales (assassinated)
Yormy Rafael Suarez Riveros (assassinated)
Evangelina Carrizo (assassinated)
Dictor Damas (assassinated)
Bruno Biella (assassinated)
Marvin Carrasco
Nelly Rodriguez Martinez (assassinated)
Jose Guevara Reyes (assassinated)
Juan Carlos Zambrano (assassinated)
Argenis Dugarte (assassinated)
Jose Guevara Reyes (assassinated)
Jose Sanchez Robles (assassinated)
Jose Luis Ricaurte (assassinated)
José Antonio Quero
Carlos Armando López Martínez
Nelson Alexander Batista
Orlando Antonio Bustamante, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Ángel Ciro Pedreáñez, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Maritza Ron, assassinated in Altamira Square on August 16th 2004
Silvino Bustillos. Gone missing on October 31 2004. Has not been seen since. Allegedly tortured and assassinated by a Military Intelligence squad commanded by National Guard Lieutenant Danny Alfredo Daniels Perez.
Antonio Lopez Castillo, assassinated by the State police
Juan Carlos Sanchez, assassinated by the State police
Romer Luján, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Raúl Royett Gutiérrez, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Leonardo González Lárez (student), assassinated by a military police death squad on June 27th 2005
Edgar Quintero Torrealba (student), assassinated by a military police death squad on June 27th 2005
Erick Miguel Montenegro Sánchez (student), assassinated by a military police death squad on June 27th 2005

http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200403020624

Just no telling who it is in that trap down there if it's human...


yes it is said that venezuela is the most dangerous country in s-america and caracas the most dangerous city.
of course this is disputable, but dangerous it is for a fact.
coming week a dutch travel program starts and they hitchhike from mexico to venezuela.
i am sure they've got a lot of bodyguards with them in venezuela. must have.
as a tourist you can't go for a walk in venezuelan city. as a local it is fine.
if a money transport has to visit a bank they've got half an army battalion surroundig the bank and blocking a streets with huge automatic machine guns ready to fire pointing in all directions. i thought wtf is happening here. it was just a regular money transport.

colombia has their coast protected in some way so drugs can go to venezuela and then cariben and of to the us and europa.
[/quote


I don't guess I'll be going there anytime soon.I do wish I could see this program you are talking about.It would be interesting to watch..
It could even be Amy Bradley in that cage.She wasn't ever found either...
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« Reply #274 on: March 03, 2008, 08:06:36 PM »


Thanks GMBW and a belated welcome to the board. One thing that has been persistently missing in the Dutch media is the corruption angle in Aruba. It's so damn obvious. I wish they would jump on that more. I hope this is something Peter is working on behind the scenes.

I think he's trying very hard to do so...he did it in his first special when the angle of  'the friend of the family' opening the door at the Van der Sloots house when the housesearch was going to happen was very important in the show...and with the cellphone - prison thing in his latest special.
He has said  that he's got 'his own ideas' about Paul van der Sloot (and we all know what that means Wink...). But he won't say it out loud if he doesn't have stuff to back it up. In his position credibility means just about everything & because of that he can't say things without proof. But he is aware of Paul van der Sloot & his buddies helping out Joran and ???; the rest of the media seem to have focused on Joran.

Maybe it's also because the media can't really bring it up since it's mostly news / talkshows that bring the case. News: you need prove / Talkshow: not too much detail & difficulty concerning the subject...10 / 15 minutes max. for an item.
Newspapers should have picked it up though; it's weird they haven't really done that.


You know Peter much better than we do being in Holland, but we have heard that he not only investigates murders with vigor but like to bust the occasional corrupt politician as well. Is this true?
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« Reply #275 on: March 03, 2008, 08:06:41 PM »

Peter R de Vries on Robert Jensen Show

-talking about the book-incident on DWDD, they show the clip
-tomorrow Beth will be on, pre-recorded, Beth told Robert that she's very grateful to Peter
-behind the scenes a lot going on, investigation re-opened
-Joran still murder-suspect
-cannot be solved within one week, takes time
-Robert could tell that when Joran was on his show, that he was holding back, 99% of the audience felt that too, not that he was lying but he was holding back information, he knew more than he was letting on
-Peter's investigation in 2006, was clear to Peter then that Joran was involved, it's strange that Joran wanted to remain silent, if you're innocent all you want to do is tell the truth, not remain silent. Joran couldn't answer the simplest questions
-Peter asked questions on P&W-show (wine incident) Joran couldn't or wouldn't answer
-Peter's wife said to Anita on P&W-show, while she was helping Peter getting wine out of his eyes: "You educated your son well" in a very sarcastic way
-Peter still talks to Beth on a regular basis
HAHAHA!
I knew Peter's wife said something sarcastic to anita,thank you Jo-An


Anita's reply was: it seems like i didn't

I also watched it tonight, what i didnt saw at pauw en witteman with the wine throwing incident is that Peters wife immediately throw water in Jorans face.. quick reaction 
Aha!
Thanks Flipper,I thought I saw the same thing when watching UTube.
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Justice for Natalee Holloway!

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« Reply #276 on: March 03, 2008, 08:09:49 PM »


Any chance they drug Van der Straten's ass back to Holland to allow him to bail himself out of the cover-up? He's an obvious target.

According to Jan himself he has political aspirations in the Antilles. I think Dompig's Shieldgroup is no longer in business as well so they both may be out of work. Dompig is currently in the running for a high level position with the ALE.


Hope they have forums we can use to show people the REAL Van der Straten. I'd love to help sink the bastard.
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« Reply #277 on: March 03, 2008, 08:10:27 PM »

No comment on the contents of the cage is still odd, after describing in detail the gae size and dimensions. The quick "thumbs down" signal from the dive team tells me it was nothing. Likely OE has signed a privacy and intelluctual rights agreement. All photos and information property of the company. I would expect a book deal, with detailed photos and a daily log outlining the search. This will allow a portion of the search expenses to be recovered.

Yes, we owe the search team our gratitute, However, if they wont comment, there is nothing preventing them from explaning why no comment. Thats a reasonable expectation.


That cage did not hold Natalee.
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« Reply #278 on: March 03, 2008, 08:12:27 PM »

No comment on the contents of the cage is still odd, after describing in detail the gae size and dimensions. The quick "thumbs down" signal from the dive team tells me it was nothing. Likely OE has signed a privacy and intelluctual rights agreement. All photos and information property of the company. I would expect a book deal, with detailed photos and a daily log outlining the search. This will allow a portion of the search expenses to be recovered.

Yes, we owe the search team our gratitute, However, if they wont comment, there is nothing preventing them from explaning why no comment. Thats a reasonable expectation.


That cage did not hold Natalee.

You say that with such conviction..I believe you...Sad
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« Reply #279 on: March 03, 2008, 08:17:20 PM »

Me Too Tot! I Believe Him! 
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In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
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