Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 - 3/5/08

[Dayhiker]

From the 45 justices working for the Court of Aruba and the Antilles:

11 started working there after Paul van der Sloot became a suspect
15 started working there much later than Paul van der Sloot

Only 19 might be friends of Paul van der Sloot and of them 14 were Curacao justices.

Didn't Paulus work for a year in Curacao with those justices? That would make the whole thing about bringing in judges from Curacao so there would be no "conflict of interest" a total sham. I have no doubt he knew these judges every bit as well as the ones in Aruba. 45 judges total on both islands, that's a small group of peers.

[private eye]

Kyle should be allowed to post here without being hounded to release information he cannot release, and when in doubt he should decline. But I feel that he should be welcomed here as a poster with no expectations of him to provide or disclose information, just as the rest of us do. I thought he kind of popped off once, but looking back, I have certainly done that myself, many times. The rest of the time he has posted pertinent, well written considerate posts, and he has spent 3 months looking for Natalee on a boat, so surely we can forget the one post that hurt our feelings, move on, and make him feel welcomed. He is young, and will bring the perspective of youth, knowledgeable about water and underwater searches, and directly invovled in this search.

So for myself, I want to apologize to Kyle if anything I said hurt his feelings or pissed him off, remind him of all of the glowing comments I have tossed his way, and welcome him here without any harrassment to disclose that which he is uncomfortable disclosing. If we make it so unpleasant for him to post he will simply avoid the cage, and his tour of duty is up for now so he should be encouraged to post as a friend of Natalee's and Beth. He has certainly earned that right and in  my opinion he has stood for the girl in a great big way.

But I want him to know that Red has certainly earned his stripes and deserves to be respected as well. I know Beth would hate to have to choose between two modern day heros:) This is a big cage:))))))

[Anna]

Venezuela's Chavez May Have Given $300 Million to Colombia's Leftist Rebels, Police Say

http://www.theledger.com/article/20080303/BREAKING/581926771

Nuggets:

“When they mention negotiations for 50 kilos of uranium this means that the FARC are taking big steps in the world of terrorism to become a global aggressor. We’re not talking of domestic guerrilla but transnational terrorism,” said Naranjo, without giving more details.


 

[Tater]

Me Too Tot! I Believe Him! 

 

[oceanexploration]

To clarify the thumb down issue:

-It was agreed immediately before the 30-Dec dive that 2 thumbs up (by Tim Trahan) meant positive ID on Natalee from something conclusive.
-One thumb up was to indicate human remains

-There was no set signal pre-dive for anything but the above scenarios.
 
By Tim's own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive. His signal indicated an inconclusive observation referring to the object said by some to be a skull, a hardened sponge by others...
What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility.
The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up .

[hotping]

Me Too Tot! I Believe Him! 

 

Angels sometimes block our path because we are heading in the wrong direction.

-Ann Spangler,
"An Angel a Day"

[klaasend]

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2008/02/xviii-sonar-search-complete.html

Update: Mon 03-March 1345 hrs

With the sonar search completed, the RV Persistence sets sail heading to its home port in Louisiana. With mixed emotions, the search team returns home. When we arrived in Aruba in mid-December we were mentally prepared to return home either having found Natalee, or after having exhausted all possibilities in the quest to find her. It is difficult going home with many questions left unanswered and so many sonar targets remaining to be explored. Our comfort lies in knowledge that we have done the best job we could, that we can return to dive on the remaining targets when funded, and that answers may come in time. We feel that the search is not over but rather entering a new phase. We are thankful for the outpouring of generosity, love, support, and prayers throughout the entire search effort.

[private eye]

To clarify the thumb down issue:

-It was agreed immediately before the 30-Dec dive that 2 thumbs up (by Tim Trahan) meant positive ID on Natalee from something conclusive.
-One thumb up was to indicate human remains

-There was no set signal pre-dive for anything but the above scenarios.
 
By Tim's own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive. His signal indicated an inconclusive observation referring to the object said by some to be a skull, a hardened sponge by others...
What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility.
The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up .

Ocean Ex, don't feel obligated to answer anything your even the least bit uncomfortable answering. I think eveyone just wants you to be able to relax, enjoy the group, offer what you can, with no expectations from us of you.

[hotping]

Thank You Klaas!

[klaasend]

Probably already posted but anyway:

A response out of Aruba to this report:

 03 mrt 2008, 18.14  ' Aruba transit port of heroin '

ORANJESTAD - Aruba is a transit port for heroin and to a lesser degree of cocaine. Drug use on the island, also under tourists, remains a point of care. Stands in a report which The international Narcotics Strategy Friday to the American congress in America to report (INSCR) have offered. The report over the year 2007 has been made Monday public.

The drugs would further be transported as from the island by means of cruising ships which put on Aruba and the daily flights as from the island to America and Europe. According to the report Aruba is interesting for smugglers by the ' good infrastructure, excellent flight connections and relatively light punish for drug trafficking in relatively good circumstances '.

The report communicates that Aruba has crime indeed little, but that becomes clear that from crime research in 2007, ' prominent on the island has established drug traffickers '.

 The Public Prosecution Service on Aruba "does not understand" on which the US base their conclusion concerning Aruba. According to head officier Hans mos there was previous year on the island one capture of thirteen kilos heroin. That is no large quantity. By remainder are talk of a decreasing recent development, in 2000, 78 kilos were intercepted there there. Both in heroin and in cocaine and ecstasy considerably less is acted by the stricter supervision, among which the hundred percent controls in the Netherlands.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3457453/__Aruba_doorvoerhaven_van_herone___.html?p=1,1

[jackb]

Same object that appears to be a skull with color removed and flipped the pic around

This reminds me of the book by Iris Johansen called Face of Deception..Creepy indeed..

I too think it is a skull.  If it is in fact a skull and DNA proves it not to be Natalee, I hope they let one of those talented people recreate the face.  There is a woman in the US who is particularly excellent at this skill and has worked with many in law enforcement on especially difficult and mysterious cases, but her name escapes me at the moment.

How weird that that subject is what this book is about...Very scarey read..

That might be her - not sure.  The woman I was referring to has worked with John Walsh on several high profile cases.  One that comes to mind is the one in south Florida where a hiker stumbled upon eight (I think) skeletal remains.  She recreated all their faces and was so accurate they were almost all immediately identified by their families.  The reconstructions side by side by the persons photographs were remarkable.  Absolutely amazing.

Kermit and friends:  Just sent Klass a more visable version of what you posted.  Naner, naner, nanter (as the lady said,)  you will see something most of the other people on the other blogs have not.  What you will be seeing is a top and side view where you are looking down into the skull.  It appears the eye socket holder is in the (my)  left lower corner of the pic I sent.  It is your picture I messed with this time Kermit, the one you posted.
Just made it a bit more visable.  If Klass will send it it is in her e-mail.  LOL
 blue the strange. 

[private eye]

To clarify the thumb down issue:

-It was agreed immediately before the 30-Dec dive that 2 thumbs up (by Tim Trahan) meant positive ID on Natalee from something conclusive.
-One thumb up was to indicate human remains

-There was no set signal pre-dive for anything but the above scenarios.
 
By Tim's own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive. His signal indicated an inconclusive observation referring to the object said by some to be a skull, a hardened sponge by others...
What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility.
The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up .

Ocean Ex, don't feel obligated to answer anything your even the least bit uncomfortable answering. I think eveyone just wants you to be able to relax, enjoy the group, offer what you can, with no expectations from us of you.

Of course anything you can offer is appreciated: And don't worry about posting some stupid because I already have all of those records:)

[klaasend]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_40252.php

Translated through google:

Suspect miljoenenfraude at Lands laboratory arrested
March 3, 2008, 18:42 (GMT -04:00)

  Email this article
  Print this article
   
   ORANJESTAD - The American authorities have Aruba at the request of a 53-year-old man arrested is suspected to have 5 million florin darkened laboratory at the Lands for which he worked. The arrest took place last Saturday in Miami at the request of the Public Prosecutor's Office (OM).

The Landslaboratorium did at the end of last year declaration of the massive fraud. The ex-employee M.M.F. Was at that time already fled to Colombia. The OM issued an international opsporingbevel, with success. When the man last Thursday traveled to the United States, it was for by the American authorities getipt. "We have a Friday request for a provisional arrest and Saturday he was arrested," says Chief Hans Mos who are very satisfied with the good cooperation with the American authorities.

F. Is suspected of embezzlement in employment, forgery, fraud and money laundering. He would Landslaboratorium the millions afhandig made by placing orders to non-existent companies in the United States. While local media reported that there are 10 million florin is darkened, according Mos far florin to five million in a period of 2002 to 2007. F. Is now in Florida for which Aruba has filed the request for his extradition. Is the suspect agrees to the extradition, the PPS that he expects within two weeks in Aruba.

[jackb]

Old Fart...the Persistence has left Aruba as of this morning at 8:20AM according to LegallyLex at BFN.... there are pictures of the boat leaving but they asked for them not to be moved off the site... 

Yes, I just read that over there. Well, it won't be long before those photos will be all over...starting with RU, I'll bet. Hell, 1/2 of RU are members at BFN and BNH. How do they expect those photos to stay there . I won't take them, but we all know MANY from RU and BNH sure will!!

What a way to promote a DONATION. This is ridiculous, like BFN are the only ones that cared, supported and have donated?

So Kyle is sort of a cabin boy?

I was catching up this morning and came across the above post and found it odd that it was asked the pics not leave BFN as IF  no one but BFN members are the only ones that care, have supported, donated, spent endless hours..etc ..on and on.

It's just odd to me that the pics of the Persistence photos leaving Aruba have been requested to stay on BFN.

Sounds like of like a deliberate snub, doesn't it?

Well, I'm just not going to be offended anyway.  Their frustration level had to be off the chart.  Maybe Kyle will give us some explanation when he gets home and rested up.  Will withhold judgment until then.

And even if he doesn't, we are all on the same team.  And Tim Miller was a part of that search and I know he would never want to do anything to snub the Monkeys.

They all still have my gratitude and prayers and wishes for a return to finish the search if it is deemed likely to find Natalee.

We have to be uniters and not dividers and all the supporters of Natalee's family must pull together even if we don't always agree on things and I mean the search crew and BFN as well as any supporters anywhere.

It's still about Natalee for me, egos be damned no matter whose they are. I'm here now basically for Beth, to be perfectly candid.  I don't really care what games they play with pictures anyway.  They gave months of their lives and I love them for that no matter what else they may do.


jmoo

They (the authorities) can still maintain the chain of evidence; their chain.  Perhaps they (those appearing to snub) are not realizing that.  Again, there are most likely reasons other than the "snub."  However some people do tend to be thinking themselves "special."  It is their whole life to be on the inside of a circle.  There are many circles, but one life.  These same people will suck the sap out of each other and move on and try to do the same thing in as many "circles" as they can until they are convinced they are the circle. What I am comparing this to is a street scene murder where there is a yellow tape, but still onlookers can see a lot, but not know the circumstances and cannot see as well as those inside the tape.  Yes, they are being over cautious for either lack of knowledge or maybe even   financial gain,   LOL   Jackb

Just lets say:  Elvis has left the building.  LOL  Jack the snake

[texasmom]

To clarify the thumb down issue:

-It was agreed immediately before the 30-Dec dive that 2 thumbs up (by Tim Trahan) meant positive ID on Natalee from something conclusive.
-One thumb up was to indicate human remains

-There was no set signal pre-dive for anything but the above scenarios.
 
By Tim's own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive. His signal indicated an inconclusive observation referring to the object said by some to be a skull, a hardened sponge by others...
What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility.
The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up .

Thanks for the clarification, OE! 

[klaasend]

Kermit's pic:



Jackb's adjustment/enhancement of Kermit's pic:

[private eye]

What I want to know Ocean Ex is did you see any sunken treasures?

[jackb]

Underwater construction, discovering lost worlds, fortunes on shipwrecks, and or recovering victims. You'll be part of the generations that robs the oceans of her secrets, with a direct involvement and a front row seat:)

Uh.....maybe not so PI.  jb

[oceanexploration]

To clarify the thumb down issue:

-It was agreed immediately before the 30-Dec dive that 2 thumbs up (by Tim Trahan) meant positive ID on Natalee from something conclusive.
-One thumb up was to indicate human remains

-There was no set signal pre-dive for anything but the above scenarios.
 
By Tim's own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive. His signal indicated an inconclusive observation referring to the object said by some to be a skull, a hardened sponge by others...
What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility.
The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up .

Ocean Ex, don't feel obligated to answer anything your even the least bit uncomfortable answering. I think eveyone just wants you to be able to relax, enjoy the group, offer what you can, with no expectations from us of you.

I appreciate the offer, I accept.  I will not talk about what I shouldn't, let alone what I can't.  However, I believe what is already out in the open is better off made clear and accurate, rather than thrown out in the open and left for passionate people to decifer (based on 6 screen shots, a few comments by people who weren't present the entire time, and some fuzzy Dateline footage).   

[oceanexploration]

Kermit's pic:



Jackb's adjustment/enhancement of Kermit's pic:

Yikes Klaas... That's really creepy..