Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 - 3/5/08

[private eye]

Underwater construction, discovering lost worlds, fortunes on shipwrecks, and or recovering victims. You'll be part of the generations that robs the oceans of her secrets, with a direct involvement and a front row seat:)

Uh.....maybe not so PI.  jb

How come?

[Observer]

What I want to know Ocean Ex is did you see any sunken treasures?

Don't be holding out on us now OE! Answer the question! 

[private eye]

To clarify the thumb down issue:

-It was agreed immediately before the 30-Dec dive that 2 thumbs up (by Tim Trahan) meant positive ID on Natalee from something conclusive.
-One thumb up was to indicate human remains

-There was no set signal pre-dive for anything but the above scenarios.
 
By Tim's own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive. His signal indicated an inconclusive observation referring to the object said by some to be a skull, a hardened sponge by others...
What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility.
The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up .

Ocean Ex, don't feel obligated to answer anything your even the least bit uncomfortable answering. I think everyone just wants you to be able to relax, enjoy the group, offer what you can, with no expectations from us of you.

I appreciate the offer, I accept.  I will not talk about what I shouldn't, let alone what I can't.  However, I believe what is already out in the open is better off made clear and accurate, rather than thrown out in the open and left for passionate people to decifer (based on 6 screen shots, a few comments by people who weren't present the entire time, and some fuzzy Dateline footage).   

This group attacks words like a school of hungry piranhas

[jackb]

Kermit's pic:



Jackb's adjustment/enhancement of Kermit's pic:

  This appears to be a top side (not direct view but behind the ear up and down (that I have here.)  You are looking down into the skull from the (person made) cavities on top.  Down in the left (your left) is the eye socket bone most likely.  There are other views here and there.  The darkened areas are where skull once was.     j/b

[klaasend]

OE - we are used to creepy after a year of this.  You'ld be surprised the things we have actually uncovered simply by lightening up a dark photograph.  I'm not referring to the trap pictures, but others in the case.

[AZSunny]

What I want to know Ocean Ex is did you see any sunken treasures?

Don't be holding out on us now OE! Answer the question! 

I think perhaps he is waiting for your definition of hidden treasures.  Gold bullion?  Is so, where would that be exactly??  Just among friends of course. 

[Ono]

Venezuela's Chavez May Have Given $300 Million to Colombia's Leftist Rebels, Police Say

http://www.theledger.com/article/20080303/BREAKING/581926771

Nuggets:

“When they mention negotiations for 50 kilos of uranium this means that the FARC are taking big steps in the world of terrorism to become a global aggressor. We’re not talking of domestic guerrilla but transnational terrorism,” said Naranjo, without giving more details.


 

It's not looking good;  Wonder if Cindy Sheehan will visit her pal Hugo anytime soon.  She's been stirring the pot in Egypt lately. 

Should we be stocking up on coffee?

[caesu]

current affairs program NOVA is doing a series about The Antilles (and Aruba i suppose - some name them together)

haven't watched it yet, but i will.

http://www.novatv.nl/index.cfm?ln=nl&fuseaction=videoaudio.details&reportage_id=5853&CFID=38346573&CFTOKEN=55476033

SERIE: DE ANTILLEN, DEEL 1: DE DIENSTREIS

Om de dag vertrekt er vanaf Schiphol een delegatie Haagse ambtenaren naar de Nederlandse Antillen: 180 keer per jaar. 
     
De ambtenaren blijven daar gemiddeld een week. Ze geven er steun aan de ambtenaren ter plekke of nemen deel aan allerlei werkgroepen. Soms gaan ze alleen om zich aan de Antilliaanse collega' s voor te stellen.

De Nederlandse delegaties komen van verschillende ministeries en de kans is groot dat ze elkaar onverwachts tegenkomen. De dienstreizen worden in Den Haag namelijk niet gecoördineerd. Dat blijkt uit onderzoek van NOVA.

In de studio reageert staatssecretaris van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties Ank Bijleveld.

the first segment was about government/state delegations travelling every other day to the Antilles for al kinds of workgroups or support roles on the islands. or just to introduce themselves to their Antilles colleague.
they stay on islands a week on average.

these trips are not co-ordinated by The Hague. so it happend that those delegations unexpectedly bump into eachother.
Ank Bijleveld, cabinet secretary for Kingdom affairs reacts in the studio.

i don't know what the real issue is here but i suspect wasting money on easy holidays in the sun.
but i go watch it this week and report back.

maybe the other segments in this series will cover more interesting subjects.

http://cgi.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/streams?/id/NPS/serie/NPS_1093696/NPS_1093849/bb.20080303.asf (windows media player)

just watched this.
mostly about dutch officials making a ridiculous amount of paid holiday trips to the antilles.
islanders asking why the money wasn't spend on the island instead and why video-conferencing wasn't used.

also about corruption on st. maarten.
a dutch official was a whistle blower about a prison official who stole 200.000 euro (150.000 dollars?)
in return the dutch official got send back to the netherlands by the prison director.

cabinet secretary for kingdom affairs Ank Bijleveld, had a hard time explaining all this.

"friday and saturday the remaining parts about corruption"

[oceanexploration]

What I want to know Ocean Ex is did you see any sunken treasures?

That would fall into the category: "Not telling". 

We did come across about 8 obvious wrecks and a few others which may be ballast piles and/or wreck related debris, but I'm not certain.  We only dove on the Catamaran wreckage. Several wrecks were known as wrecks in the area, but their locations unknown.  The remaining are complete unknowns. In my opinion none will enable me to retire, not that I would.

[CapsLockWizard]

Hi all,

Well it is not over till Natalee is send home.

XTC DNA area may hold many mystery...
The parked Hour Pendulum is now set in motion.
Several Guillotine are being sharpen.
when the Hour Pendulum reach 240 swing the auto Guillotine will fall.
the foundation of babylon will be shake.

To be continue...

[klaasend]

OE - we are used to creepy after a year of this.  You'ld be surprised the things we have actually uncovered simply by lightening up a dark photograph.  I'm not referring to the trap pictures, but others in the case.

Oceanexplorer - example:

Here you see a dark photo, taken at night of Freddy Arambatzis and Satish Kalpoe:



By simply brightening it up a bit we can see it's Freddy and Satish in JORAN's backyard by his pool:

[jackb]

Kermit's pic:



Jackb's adjustment/enhancement of Kermit's pic:

Keep in mind their computers are very powerful and the screens make images from them to our computers so close up as not to be as visible as we need.  That has to be compensated for.  Their objects are not possible to make out if they are not adjusted in such a way as to be able to see them.   jack blue

[klaasend]

Hi all,

Well it is not over till Natalee is send home.

XTC DNA area may hold many mystery...
The parked Hour Pendulum is now set in motion.
Several Guillotine are being sharpen.
when the Hour Pendulum reach 240 swing the auto Guillotine will fall.
the foundation of babylon will be shake.

To be continue...

OK, good I think??

[Castaglance]

paraphrasing....

just the highlights of Oceanexplorers posts

Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.
These 6 screen captures were sent to the FBI. (nothing else)
I was shocked to see them posted.
99.9% certainty
Dave very reasonably requested them from me. 
I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.
Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.
#1 ranked priority target
hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance
NO mention of what was in the 1st target what-so-ever, and rightly so...
but, all that he doesn't say speaks volumes.
Then he goes on to add:


To clarify the thumb down issue:

-One thumb up was to indicate human remains

-There was no set signal pre-dive for anything but the above scenarios.
 
By Tim's own admission, His signal indicated an inconclusive observation referring to the object said by some to be a skull, a hardened sponge by others...
What you can't see is a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility.
The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up .
And HE feels the need to justify this...

Kyle, no questions here, just patience. (minor ability to read betwixt the lines) TY

this being a newly posting monkey is hard work... I probably did this wrong as well

p.s. Kyle_ I have a daughter named... Kyle

[caesu]

Probably already posted but anyway:

A response out of Aruba to this report:

 03 mrt 2008, 18.14  ' Aruba transit port of heroin '

ORANJESTAD - Aruba is a transit port for heroin and to a lesser degree of cocaine. Drug use on the island, also under tourists, remains a point of care. Stands in a report which The international Narcotics Strategy Friday to the American congress in America to report (INSCR) have offered. The report over the year 2007 has been made Monday public.

The drugs would further be transported as from the island by means of cruising ships which put on Aruba and the daily flights as from the island to America and Europe. According to the report Aruba is interesting for smugglers by the ' good infrastructure, excellent flight connections and relatively light punish for drug trafficking in relatively good circumstances '.

The report communicates that Aruba has crime indeed little, but that becomes clear that from crime research in 2007, ' prominent on the island has established drug traffickers '.

 The Public Prosecution Service on Aruba "does not understand" on which the US base their conclusion concerning Aruba. According to head officier Hans mos there was previous year on the island one capture of thirteen kilos heroin. That is no large quantity. By remainder are talk of a decreasing recent development, in 2000, 78 kilos were intercepted there there. Both in heroin and in cocaine and ecstasy considerably less is acted by the stricter supervision, among which the hundred percent controls in the Netherlands.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3457453/__Aruba_doorvoerhaven_van_herone___.html?p=1,1

i hope this news gets much coverage.
maybe in combination with above mentioned NOVA current affairs series about antilles/aruba.
i find the us state department report quite shocking.
although it also mentions steps being taken to stop the smuggling.

http://www.state.gov/p/inl/rls/nrcrpt/2008/vol1/html/100778.htm (Dutch Caribbean paragraph)

[oceanexploration]

What I want to know Ocean Ex is did you see any sunken treasures?

Don't be holding out on us now OE! Answer the question! 

I think perhaps he is waiting for your definition of hidden treasures.  Gold bullion?  Is so, where would that be exactly??  Just among friends of course. 

Well, if I sent the sunken treasure information to the FBI it would be posted somewhere on the Internet already lol.   

[Serenity]

Klass

I'm appalled that the alleged photos of a skull are even on this site. Kyle has already told you there was NO human remains. It's time to stop with the nasty photos. I'm sure if Beth or Dave saw what SM was doing to try to disprove OE they would not be happy.l

[Observer]

Hi all,

Well it is not over till Natalee is send home.

XTC DNA area may hold many mystery...
The parked Hour Pendulum is now set in motion.
Several Guillotine are being sharpen.
when the Hour Pendulum reach 240 swing the auto Guillotine will fall.
the foundation of babylon will be shake.

To be continue...

Ok,We will have the cigars ready! Let those heads roll!! 

[Rob]

What I want to know Ocean Ex is did you see any sunken treasures?

That would fall into the category: "Not telling". 

We did come across about 8 obvious wrecks and a few others which may be ballast piles and/or wreck related debris, but I'm not certain.  We only dove on the Catamaran wreckage. Several wrecks were known as wrecks in the area, but their locations unknown.  The remaining are complete unknowns. In my opinion none will enable me to retire, not that I would.

any numbers that might ID this as the Lubouovic Family boat?

[texasmom]

Probably already posted but anyway:

A response out of Aruba to this report:

 03 mrt 2008, 18.14  ' Aruba transit port of heroin '

ORANJESTAD - Aruba is a transit port for heroin and to a lesser degree of cocaine. Drug use on the island, also under tourists, remains a point of care. Stands in a report which The international Narcotics Strategy Friday to the American congress in America to report (INSCR) have offered. The report over the year 2007 has been made Monday public.

The drugs would further be transported as from the island by means of cruising ships which put on Aruba and the daily flights as from the island to America and Europe. According to the report Aruba is interesting for smugglers by the ' good infrastructure, excellent flight connections and relatively light punish for drug trafficking in relatively good circumstances '.

The report communicates that Aruba has crime indeed little, but that becomes clear that from crime research in 2007, ' prominent on the island has established drug traffickers '.

 The Public Prosecution Service on Aruba "does not understand" on which the US base their conclusion concerning Aruba. According to head officier Hans mos there was previous year on the island one capture of thirteen kilos heroin. That is no large quantity. By remainder are talk of a decreasing recent development, in 2000, 78 kilos were intercepted there there. Both in heroin and in cocaine and ecstasy considerably less is acted by the stricter supervision, among which the hundred percent controls in the Netherlands.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3457453/__Aruba_doorvoerhaven_van_herone___.html?p=1,1

Thanks, Klaas!

Thirteen kilos, no large quantity!   
That's a lot of freakin' heroin in my book...

And if you consider what they didn't capture......or didn't CHOOSE to capture!