Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 - 3/5/08

[Bladerunner]

OE post excerpt:

"WHAT do you think you are doing?  What do you seriously think you are going to accomplish with the pics?  Don't you even think to consider for a second that we the search team, who found the trap, supervised it's sampling, recorded that video and others... are ensuring the situation is in proper hands and being taken care of appropriately and completely?  "


I think I missed this the first time, I wonder how many other videos they shot that they have "ensured are in proper hands?" 

Also, what else did they find and film?   

[Tamikosmom]

Well, here's certainly some wonderful news.  Bet Carpe can capture it for us, too!



http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3456742/_Moeder_Natalee__te_gast_bij_Jensen__.html?p=1,2
 
Moeder Natalee Holloway te gast bij Jensen

HILVERSUM - Beth Twitty, de moeder van op de Aruba verdwenen tiener Natalee Holloway, is dinsdagavond te gast in het televisieprogramma Jensen!. Voor het eerst na de spraakmakende uitzending van Peter R. de Vries geeft ze op de Nederlandse televisie haar reactie op de bekentenissen van Joran van der Sloot, aldus RTL maandag.

Beth Twitty the mother of missing teenager Natalee Holloway. will be Tuesday as guest in TV show Jensen. For the first time after the show from Peter R. de Vries she gives to  Dutch TV a reaction to the confession from Joran van der Sloot, said RTL monday.


Tegen presentator Robert Jensen vertelt ze over de schadeclaim die ze gaat indien bij Joran van der Sloot wegens de emotionele schade die ze heeft geleden. Ook gaat ze in op de gebeurtenissen nadat de mediagekte losbarstte en de zoektocht naar haar dochter, die op 30 mei 2005 verdween.

She wukk talk to announcer Robert Jensen about the civil lawsuit against Joran van der Sloot, what he has done emotionally to her. Also she will be talking about the media that is following the case and about the search to her daughter, that was missing on May 30, 2005.


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[AZLady]

I'm a bit foggy on this, but I thought John Silvetti, in his request for donations, said they had investigated and filmed about 60 targets and over 100 more were yet to be investigated.  Let me see if I can find it.

[Destiny]

Destiny, I hope I was not the Monkey who offended you during the photo talks.  If I did, I sincerely apologize.  I did not mean to offend but only meant to explain what I thought was an angle that may not have been realized.  I know I sometimes write rather abrupt posts that could be misconstrued.  I need to learn to explain myself better.  If I offended, I apologize. 

No Sweet Pea...wasn't you...it was someone that ******* finally had enough of...come to the cage and rushed her off to bed...and tucked her in niceley...she *needed* her rest...

[AZLady]

Destiny, I hope I was not the Monkey who offended you during the photo talks.  If I did, I sincerely apologize.  I did not mean to offend but only meant to explain what I thought was an angle that may not have been realized.  I know I sometimes write rather abrupt posts that could be misconstrued.  I need to learn to explain myself better.  If I offended, I apologize. 

No Sweet Pea...wasn't you...it was someone that ******* finally had enough of...come to the cage and rushed her off to bed...and tucked her in niceley...she *needed* her rest...

whew!   
I gotcha!

[Jo-An]

Good thing Beth will be on the Jensen show tomorrow.
A lot of people watch that show.
Personally, I've never watched it before because I cannot stánd that guy! 
I did watch the show where he interviewed Joran however, and I must say that he did a pretty good job.
Usually Robert is a bully and a brat but when Joran was on the show he said things like: "I sense you're holding something back. Some things in your story just don't add up." Joran left the same part of the story out as he did with Patrick - the part on the beach. Robert Jensen was on to him but Joran wouldn't tell.
The main idea will probably be promoting Beth's (translated) book and I certainly hope a lot of people will buy it after tomorrow's show. People deserve to know the other side of the story.
The main focus in Holland has always been Joran so it's about time Beth's side was heard!
My guess is people will be shocked.

Top 60 bestseller list will be published here weekly.
http://www.cpnb.nl/bs/index.html

[AZLady]

Hello oceanexploration.  Did you have a good flight home?  Any news for us?

[Rob]

I like to *think* I pick up stuff pretty quickly. But for the life of me, I still don't understand the problems with posting those pictures. Will someone please inform me?

And since no one knows for sure, I'll accept all the conjecture in the world. TIA

I'm not sure what is in that trap. I do not see anything that rules
Natalee in or out of that trap. What am I missing here?

[NM]

Jo-ann I think you posted about friends of jurin's currently posting that his 2 younger brothers where in Netherlands with avds.  THANK YOU FOR THAT INFO!!!!!!  Many of us here were given that same info in June 2005 by people in aruba and not friends of the people of the ditch (love that name!).  Also a Monkey found out that 3 people of the ditch (3 van der sloots) flew from nl to aruba the day avds said she came home around June 1.  IMO, pvds needed his younger sons home for an alibi and that is when that story change.  Thanks again for posting that info.

Nope, that wasn't me! 
Don't know who it was though...

RATS!  Sorry about that. Oh no, I hope my mind isn't going. Who am I kidding, it's been gone for some time!

[Lala'sMom]

Hello monkeys!  Does anyone know if Deepak played tennis?  Has anyone ever seen anything written concerning him taking tennis lessons? TIA


BTW, let's cut Caps some slack here...he is trying to help as best he can.  This fellow is a smart guy and is not intending to sound cryptic at all...he just talks that way sometimes.  Until he proves otherwise to me...I am trusting him as he has me on occasion.  Thanks Monkeys.

[Anna]

Jo-An

Last time Beth was on his program, we were uneasy because we heard he could be quite rude.  However, he was wonderful to her, a true gentleman and a scholar for the entire program!

She wouldn't go back if he had been mean to her.  I am thankful to him for giving her this opportunity.  Also for letting the people of The Netherlands know what really happened.

.

[oceanexploration]

"Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist on board the R/V Persistence. Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification and location. I will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target after I pick and analyse each sonar target."

http://geosolutions.blogspot.com/

Hardly a cabin boy.

I do not doubt for one minute that Kyle is very qualified in his profession ... I do not doubt for one minute that Kyle motives in locating the remains of Natalee Hollway were very sincere.

However ... somewhere along the way Kyle was influenced to believe that those within the Aruban investigation were the "good guys" and ... the media which was the sole reason that the Natalee Holloway case did not become a faded memory was the "bad guy".

The following post spoke volumes to me in regards to Kyle naïveté in regards to the dynamics encompassing the "powers that be" in the Aruban investigation who have been behind the coverup which has been denying Natalee Holloway justice.

I cannot comprehend that Kyle would have posted the following words if he had done his homework.  If only he had read Dave Holloway's ... Corruption in Paradise or ... Beth Holloway's ... Loving Natalee.

In November, 2005 ... Dave Holloway conceded that his cooperation with the enemy had not worked.  Dave learned that his goal for justice to prevail for his precious daughter did not reflect ... the Aruban goal to distance Joran and Paulus from implication.

Janet

++++++++

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.


Dave Holloway
On the Record w/ Greta
November 17, 2005

HOLLOWAY: ... I made sure that the prime minister understood our position. You know, I had been holding off on this boycott as long as I could, and I told him, I said, you know, The big wave is coming, and if you guys are not going to listen, I can't help you anymore.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175925,00.html


Dave Holloway
On the Record w/ Greta
April 11, 2006

HOLLOWAY: Oh, the media was our best friend. If it hadn't been for the media this thing would have been swept under the table the very first day and we'd have been calling back to Aruba "Have you heard anything? Have you heard anything?" I truly believe that.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191377,00.html

I have done my homework. Not all that I posted is geared journalistically.  Some things I had written were specifically geared to send a message.  At times, this message was for only a few people.  This post at SM "praising Aruban authorities" was done with contextual purpose. Eveything I write ends up being read by people who are extremely interested and close to the case.  In context, we (the search team) needed to rapidly gain the trust and cooperation of the Aruban authorities.  Before we arrived, here was no trust, little cooperation, and no sharing of information. Take this for what it's worth:  Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  Also, don't make assumptions about what I have or have not read.

Not all that I write is my true feelings but is aimed at true purpose. Not everything is clear or should be taken just at face value.

[MumInOhio]

NM…I believe it may have been one of our new Dutch Monkeys…Flipper or Katrian(sp) and by the way Welcome!…and sorry if it was not!

 I too would like some further clarification on this…

This is Paulus’ alibi for that evening…he had to pick up Sebastian from I believe the Ziola’s house.(Not sure on the spelling on that either, but it is the only name I can recall Paulus mentioning picking him up from)

If they were in the Netherlands, Paulus has no alibi for the time he was ‘not’ in the casino sitting right next to Natalee or for the rest of the night.

I was reading back then and do remember it being confirmed that there was indeed three ditches on the flight to Aruba.

Anna…I saw it, but am supposed to be busy…maybe I should just logout and I’ll get more done…LOL

[Keepthefaith]

"Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist on board the R/V Persistence. Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification and location. I will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target after I pick and analyse each sonar target."

http://geosolutions.blogspot.com/

Hardly a cabin boy.

I do not doubt for one minute that Kyle is very qualified in his profession ... I do not doubt for one minute that Kyle motives in locating the remains of Natalee Hollway were very sincere.

However ... somewhere along the way Kyle was influenced to believe that those within the Aruban investigation were the "good guys" and ... the media which was the sole reason that the Natalee Holloway case did not become a faded memory was the "bad guy".

The following post spoke volumes to me in regards to Kyle naïveté in regards to the dynamics encompassing the "powers that be" in the Aruban investigation who have been behind the coverup which has been denying Natalee Holloway justice.

I cannot comprehend that Kyle would have posted the following words if he had done his homework.  If only he had read Dave Holloway's ... Corruption in Paradise or ... Beth Holloway's ... Loving Natalee.

In November, 2005 ... Dave Holloway conceded that his cooperation with the enemy had not worked.  Dave learned that his goal for justice to prevail for his precious daughter did not reflect ... the Aruban goal to distance Joran and Paulus from implication.

Janet

++++++++

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.


Dave Holloway
On the Record w/ Greta
November 17, 2005

HOLLOWAY: ... I made sure that the prime minister understood our position. You know, I had been holding off on this boycott as long as I could, and I told him, I said, you know, The big wave is coming, and if you guys are not going to listen, I can't help you anymore.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175925,00.html


Dave Holloway
On the Record w/ Greta
April 11, 2006

HOLLOWAY: Oh, the media was our best friend. If it hadn't been for the media this thing would have been swept under the table the very first day and we'd have been calling back to Aruba "Have you heard anything? Have you heard anything?" I truly believe that.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191377,00.html

I have done my homework. Not all that I posted is geared journalistically.  Some things I had written were specifically geared to send a message.  At times, this message was for only a few people.  This post at SM "praising Aruban authorities" was done with contextual purpose. Eveything I write ends up being read by people who are extremely interested and close to the case.  In context, we (the search team) needed to rapidly gain the trust and cooperation of the Aruban authorities.  Before we arrived, here was no trust, little cooperation, and no sharing of information. Take this for what it's worth:  Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  Also, don't make assumptions about what I have or have not read.

Not all that I write is my true feelings but is aimed at true purpose. Not everything is clear or should be taken just at face value.

Thank you for your work.Keepthefaith....

[AZLady]

I like to *think* I pick up stuff pretty quickly. But for the life of me, I still don't understand the problems with posting those pictures. Will someone please inform me?

And since no one knows for sure, I'll accept all the conjecture in the world. TIA

I'm not sure what is in that trap. I do not see anything that rules
Natalee in or out of that trap. What am I missing here?

Rob, I can give you a few guesses off the top of my head, but I don't know for sure.  In academia, of which the scientific community is included, there is a strong belief in integrity of work.  This includes support for the ownership of materials, copyright and other such laws.  Academics carefully and minutely credit the source of their work and related work, ad infinitum.  So, that's the prevailing attitude amongst these folks.  The type of sharing and copying we do on the internet is so foreign to them that I know some who find it shocking.  I think they would have found it shocking that someone took the pictures from a private site and put them in the public domain anonymously.  Especially if the pictures portrayed the remains of a dead person--not Natalee, but any dead person.  I think the request not to repost the pics of Persistence leaving Aruba was a knee jerk reaction to the previous copying of pics. 

[oceanexploration]

Hello oceanexploration.  Did you have a good flight home?  Any news for us?

Yes thank you.  I have a lot to catch up on. 

News:  As far as the pics of the Persistence leaving goes on BFN..  This was done without my knowledge.  It wasn't meant that anyone should feel slighted. I think the move was thoughtless, but done without malice.  John's sister posts at BFN and requested info and pics from John who merely complied with her request.  It was between those two and does not reflect the thoughts, feelings, or agenda of the search team.  Does this help?  It's the truth.

[Anna]

Ocean,

I trust you are safely home?  Were you aware of the actions of Chavez and the government of Ecuador before leaving?  The massing of troops on the Colombian border, troops with tanks? 

Is there concern in Aruba about this?

.

[Tamikosmom]

I like to *think* I pick up stuff pretty quickly. But for the life of me, I still don't understand the problems with posting those pictures. Will someone please inform me?

And since no one knows for sure, I'll accept all the conjecture in the world. TIA

I'm not sure what is in that trap. I do not see anything that rules
Natalee in or out of that trap. What am I missing here?

Louis Schafer and Tim Trahan words that were quoted in this February 28, 2008 article/video implies to me that Natalee Holloway's remains have yet to be located.

IMO

Janet

++++++++++++++

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=5988951

Holloway searchers need helpThursday, February 28, 2008 | 8:21 PM

By Cynthia Cisneros

KEMAH, TX (KTRK) -- It's been almost three years since Natalee Holloway disappeared in Aruba on a class trip.  But searchers have not given up hope.

A Kemah businessman has been on the front lines of the search for Natalee, spending over a million dollars of his own money. Over the past four months, he's paid for an underwater search.

The morning we were there, Louis Schafer was signing a wire transfer for $250,000. The money used to operate a sophisticated, deep sea survey boat, named the Persistence.

"I've dedicated a million dollars, I've gone way above that," said Louis Schafer of Underwater Expeditions. "I feel like it's time to ask for help from the American people that want to see this case solved."

The Persistence has been used every day since November to survey the ocean floor near Aruba. It uses remote operated vehicles, called ROVs, to sweep the ocean depths. What they've been able to accomplish is astounding.

"By Friday, we will have surveyed the entire 50-square mile off Aruba," Schafer said. "We have identified at least 60 of the targets. we have about 150 more targets to inspect."

Natalee Holloway traveled to Aruba two years ago to celebrate her high school graduation and disappeared. Natalee was last seen with Joran Van der Sloot who says he does not know what happened to her.

Schafer made a fortune in the deep sea diving business for oil rig removal and installation. He had access to unique technology and a team of experts that could find just about anything.
 
"So we have completely mapped the ocean floor, we know every object that's there, we know every object that could be a container holding her in the sea," he said.

A relentless search Schafer and his team say will stop, if they don't get more funding.

"And we all feel, I'm speaking from everybody on the team, that she's in one of the targets we have not looked at yet," Tim Trahan of Underwater Expeditions said. "We can't stop. I go to sleep at night thinking we've located it, we just need to get to it."

The search of the rest of those targets will stop this week. For more information on how you can help,

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=5988951

[Bladerunner]

"Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist on board the R/V Persistence. Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification and location. I will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target after I pick and analyse each sonar target."

http://geosolutions.blogspot.com/

Hardly a cabin boy.

I for one think people need to read your posts VERY CAREFULLY, especially this one!   
I do not doubt for one minute that Kyle is very qualified in his profession ... I do not doubt for one minute that Kyle motives in locating the remains of Natalee Hollway were very sincere.

However ... somewhere along the way Kyle was influenced to believe that those within the Aruban investigation were the "good guys" and ... the media which was the sole reason that the Natalee Holloway case did not become a faded memory was the "bad guy".

The following post spoke volumes to me in regards to Kyle naïveté in regards to the dynamics encompassing the "powers that be" in the Aruban investigation who have been behind the coverup which has been denying Natalee Holloway justice.

I cannot comprehend that Kyle would have posted the following words if he had done his homework.  If only he had read Dave Holloway's ... Corruption in Paradise or ... Beth Holloway's ... Loving Natalee.

In November, 2005 ... Dave Holloway conceded that his cooperation with the enemy had not worked.  Dave learned that his goal for justice to prevail for his precious daughter did not reflect ... the Aruban goal to distance Joran and Paulus from implication.

Janet

++++++++

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.


Dave Holloway
On the Record w/ Greta
November 17, 2005

HOLLOWAY: ... I made sure that the prime minister understood our position. You know, I had been holding off on this boycott as long as I could, and I told him, I said, you know, The big wave is coming, and if you guys are not going to listen, I can't help you anymore.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175925,00.html


Dave Holloway
On the Record w/ Greta
April 11, 2006

HOLLOWAY: Oh, the media was our best friend. If it hadn't been for the media this thing would have been swept under the table the very first day and we'd have been calling back to Aruba "Have you heard anything? Have you heard anything?" I truly believe that.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191377,00.html

I have done my homework. Not all that I posted is geared journalistically.  Some things I had written were specifically geared to send a message.  At times, this message was for only a few people.  This post at SM "praising Aruban authorities" was done with contextual purpose. Eveything I write ends up being read by people who are extremely interested and close to the case.  In context, we (the search team) needed to rapidly gain the trust and cooperation of the Aruban authorities.  Before we arrived, here was no trust, little cooperation, and no sharing of information. Take this for what it's worth:  Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  Also, don't make assumptions about what I have or have not read.

Not all that I write is my true feelings but is aimed at true purpose. Not everything is clear or should be taken just at face value.

[oceanexploration]

btw, I ran into Deepak and Satish outside of Mambo Jambo on Saturday night.  It looked like the bouncers didn't let them in the club. I would have loved to have bought them both a Balashi and had a chat.  No dice.