Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 - 3/5/08

[bleachedblack]

update~
Colombia accused Ecuador and Venezuela of having ties with the Farc and said the rebels had tried to buy uranium.
The Colombian authorities said the information had come from documents found during Saturday's raid on the rebel camp in Ecuador.

"When they mention negotiations for 50 kilos of uranium, this means that the Farc are taking big steps in the world of terrorism to become a global aggressor. We're not talking of domestic guerrilla but transnational terrorism," said Colombian national police chief Oscar Naranjo at a news conference in Bogota.

Meanwhile, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said the death of rebel leader Reyes was "bad news", as he had been France's contact in its efforts to free Ms Betancourt.

BBC

Ms. Betancourt was freed last month IIRC. She was the former Vice Presidential candidate. If I remember all this correctly. She was the mother of the boy found in the orphanage and was thought to be also held captive. Seems Ms. Betancourt had a child with a rebel while in detainment.

Again, If I remember this all correctly.

Carla Rojas is the woman you are thinking of I believe. She is a Columbian politician held captive by FARC who has since been freed. She had a child by one of her captors. As far as I know Betancourt is still held captive.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hiSN1WvBs9Hoc30lmsV3s1k1UOfg

[caesu]

update~
Colombia accused Ecuador and Venezuela of having ties with the Farc and said the rebels had tried to buy uranium.
The Colombian authorities said the information had come from documents found during Saturday's raid on the rebel camp in Ecuador.

"When they mention negotiations for 50 kilos of uranium, this means that the Farc are taking big steps in the world of terrorism to become a global aggressor. We're not talking of domestic guerrilla but transnational terrorism," said Colombian national police chief Oscar Naranjo at a news conference in Bogota.

Meanwhile, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said the death of rebel leader Reyes was "bad news", as he had been France's contact in its efforts to free Ms Betancourt.

BBC

Ms. Betancourt was freed last month IIRC. She was the former Vice Presidential candidate. If I remember all this correctly. She was the mother of the boy found in the orphanage and was thought to be also held captive. Seems Ms. Betancourt had a child with a rebel while in detainment.

Again, If I remember this all correctly.

no Betancourt is still captive!
last week others were freed and said she was very ill.
but still captive.
other releases are more unlikely after all the tension.

In January 2008, the Farc freed Clara Rojas and former congresswoman Consuelo Gonzalez.

Another four hostages, who were released on 27 February, warned that Ms Betacnourt's health was fading fast and that they feared for her life.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7266587.stm

just few minutes ago:

Colombia says wants Venezuela's president Chavez to be prosecuted by the International Criminal Court, The Hague. More soon.

[Rob]

snip: (is this how we shorten stacks?)

Please don't stop posting.  Everyone messes posts up.  It's a requirement to be allowed to continue in the cage.  I got your message anyway.  I answered it didn't I?  We can all read monkey!

Did you see the post to you the other night?  It was right after you left.

I try to pick up where I left off every night but, I must have missed that
Thanks for responding Bearly.
Rob:  were you waving your towel this week?
[/quote]

I saw your post Castaglance asking if I am from Pittsburgh and I am. Sorry I didn't reply. I apologize.

I don't go into downtown unless I have to... and I don't usually participate in that kind of stuff. LOL

Frank knew Myron died before I did and sent me an email with his condolences. Are you from the area too?

I do have a few original Terrible towels around here somewhere.

[Blonde]

If Natalee's remains have been recovered ... somebody need to tell Tim Miller.  As of February 27, 2008 ... Tim's impression was that there were 169 targets which still needed to be searched.

Janet

+++++++++++


Tim Miller
On the Record w/ Greta
February 27, 2008

MILLER: The report we got is the DNA that came back did not match Natalee's DNA and when we located that it looked like more than just a piece of cloth and I mean we, we felt as though we seen a skull in there. We got the Aruba authorities involved, they felt there was something in there, we dove on it and the thing is that's only 1 of over 170 targets out there we still have to investigate, so we've got a lot of work ahead of us.

Transcript - Heli (RU)

Maybe we aren't allowed to know just yet.  Maybe they need more confirmation.

I don't believe they have found Natalee's remains. I see and visit with Beth's Mom at least once a week, usually more, and she could not keep that secret. There are plenty or real mysteries with which to deal. It would be great though. I have a feeling that Beth would be with her Mom if that had happened as well.

I also don't think they found Natalee's remains but why would they even bother sending those 6 images to the FBI unless something was found?

Sorry I must have missed this "those 6 images to the FBI " what got sent to the FBI

[Rob]

BB and caesu, that you for the correction.

[mojo]

update~
Colombia accused Ecuador and Venezuela of having ties with the Farc and said the rebels had tried to buy uranium.
The Colombian authorities said the information had come from documents found during Saturday's raid on the rebel camp in Ecuador.

"When they mention negotiations for 50 kilos of uranium, this means that the Farc are taking big steps in the world of terrorism to become a global aggressor. We're not talking of domestic guerrilla but transnational terrorism," said Colombian national police chief Oscar Naranjo at a news conference in Bogota.

Meanwhile, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said the death of rebel leader Reyes was "bad news", as he had been France's contact in its efforts to free Ms Betancourt.

BBC

Ms. Betancourt was freed last month IIRC. She was the former Vice Presidential candidate. If I remember all this correctly. She was the mother of the boy found in the orphanage and was thought to be also held captive. Seems Ms. Betancourt had a child with a rebel while in detainment.

Again, If I remember this all correctly.

Carla Rojas is the woman you are thinking of I believe. She is a Columbian politician held captive by FARC who has since been freed. She had a child by one of her captors. As far as I know Betancourt is still held captive.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hiSN1WvBs9Hoc30lmsV3s1k1UOfg

no, betancourt is high profile. she ran for president.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7276228.stm

.....Ecuador said the raid had scuppered a possible deal to free French-Colombian Farc hostage Ingrid Betancourt.

President Rafael Correa said his government had been in "very advanced" talks to release the ex-Colombian presidential candidate, who has been held for six years, and other hostages.

[Blonde]

His working theory is CYAA.  (Cover your Aruban ass)

If you were not the guy spouting off about protecting the suspect and tourism dollars, you might put it out there.  But if you are not allowed to have a theory and if you don't want to be a chandelier, you don't.

Hi Bearlyhere, right, I get that part. But doesn't he own it to Beth and Dave and the people of Aruba (who are suffering according to some) to at some point explain how he knows Natalee is not alive. I would think that is the least he could do. Whether he tells us or not is one thing, but doesn't the family have a right to know what happened to Natalee. Those are her family members and they have a right to know and a vested interest... as I think they will find out when a civil suit turns that island upside down and inside out.

And if Mos is never going to charge anyone, what difference does it make anyway?

Hi Rob,
  I was under the assumption that Beth is confident she already knows what happened to Natalee.She even said she is at peace knowing now.I haven't seen that reply from Dave so don't know what he thinks.You're right,Mos owes them an explanation but then again,so did all the others before him and yet here we are today.Just out of curiosity,how will a civil suit turn the island upside down and inside out?

I think she said this after hearing Joran confess because she believed at least half of his story.

[Castaglance]

snip: (is this how we shorten stacks?)

Please don't stop posting.  Everyone messes posts up.  It's a requirement to be allowed to continue in the cage.  I got your message anyway.  I answered it didn't I?  We can all read monkey!

Did you see the post to you the other night?  It was right after you left.

I try to pick up where I left off every night but, I must have missed that
Thanks for responding Bearly.
Rob:  were you waving your towel this week?

I saw your post Castaglance asking if I am from Pittsburgh and I am. Sorry I didn't reply. I apologize.

I don't go into downtown unless I have to... and I don't usually participate in that kind of stuff. LOL

Frank knew Myron died before I did and sent me an email with his condolences. Are you from the area too?

I do have a few original Terrible towels around here somewhere.
[/quote]

Yes, just east... I checked for a travel show and we don't have one scheduled here (pout)
You know the other job to have here? Weatherman, they never get it right either, lol.
Nice to know such a smart cookie resides close-by. TY

[caesu]

Colombia says Venezuela`s Chavez helped leftisit rebels commit genocide (Reuters)

very strong words from one country to another.
wonder what Chaves response is. usually strong words too.

[private eye]

Has anyone heard anymore about the Patrick television appearance in Aruba?

Not ignoring you, I just don't know.

I didn't see anyone answer this yet and I just wanted you to know you are not invisible.

Dads don't even know it is unusual to be invisible. I never take it like that:)

[Rob]

Thankyou Rob for the answer.You have always been so kind on this forum and I for one appreciate that.I see what you are saying and I agree.It seem's to me that a civil suit could be brought against many and not just Yoran but I'm not an attorney so I don't know..You make alot of sense so thanks again for your response..Monkey Hugs

Tot, thanks you for the kind words, they mean a lot to me. Hugs back at ya!!!

You know, there is one giant problem here and I have been very very reluctant to discuss it or broach it. But maybe now would be a good time.

I have discussed this privately with a few friends and it's not a pleasant subject.

It's the corruption angle.

If the main suspects are ever charged they may claim that they told the truth and the Aruban Authorities have told them to keep their mouths shut and they would cover it up to protect tourism.

Tacopina has said the Aruba Government is corrupt and so has everyone else.

This is so Slootish and a built in excuse. There will be many that believe the Aruban Authorities are to blame and not Joran and Paulus.

again, just my opinion, but anything is possible in the world of 'Rooba.

[ala_gunslinger]

Has anyone heard from our Alabama monkeys?  Are they safe?

Not in Alabama...but...*real* close...weather is bad...bad here...tornado boxes....need the rain tho...power still on...thank God/Goddess for UPS backup   Front yard looks like a lake!

Good morning all ya'll!

In the 'north of Ham' here.  Just a few trees down, bass pond is now full!

Destiny, you are right!  I love my full house UPS!!!!

[Kimmy53]

Good Morning Monkeys!

In the line of civil suits.....I'm wondering, Who ALL could be called to testify or give statements....  I would assume anyone the lawyers decided may have information.  It would be a virtual who's who - I'd love to see the likes of Dennis Jacobs, KJ, Steve Croes, Vanderstraten, etc, etc. be REALLY questioned - by REAL attorneys - asking REAL questions - They'd HAVE to answer too... I am sure they'd lie - but my thing is, they ALL wouldn't have their stories practiced, and they could be picked apart in short order. 

[mojo]

Colombia says Venezuela`s Chavez helped leftisit rebels commit genocide (Reuters)

very strong words from one country to another.
wonder what Chaves response is. usually strong words too.

true enough, but it's gonna take evidence to get this ball rolling.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7277313.stm

[Castaglance]

Table I. Share of Responsibility for Non-Combatant Deaths and Forced Disappearances

                               1993   1995  1996   1997   1998    1999     2000

Guerrillas               28%    38%     36%     23.5%    21.3%  19.6%   16.3%

Security Forces     54%   16%   18%     7.4%       2.7%     2.4%     4.6%

Paramilitary          18%   46%   46%      69%        76%      78%    79.2%

Source: William Avilés. 2003. "Paramilitarism and Colombia’s Low Intensity Democracy," Journal of Latin American Studies 38: 403. Derived from the Colombian Commission of Jurists.

64 percent of the population lives below the poverty line, 23 percent in absolute poverty. Just under 2 percent of the population owns roughly 53 percent of the land. 11 million of the country’s 43,593,000 citizens do not meet their basic food requirements. Adequate health care, education, and employment are the exclusive perks of the privileged elite.
http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/607/61/

wow, Forced Disappearances just like Aruba

[Tater]

Thankyou Rob for the answer.You have always been so kind on this forum and I for one appreciate that.I see what you are saying and I agree.It seem's to me that a civil suit could be brought against many and not just Yoran but I'm not an attorney so I don't know..You make alot of sense so thanks again for your response..Monkey Hugs

Tot, thanks you for the kind words, they mean a lot to me. Hugs back at ya!!!

You know, there is one giant problem here and I have been very very reluctant to discuss it or broach it. But maybe now would be a good time.

I have discussed this privately with a few friends and it's not a pleasant subject.

It's the corruption angle.

If the main suspects are ever charged they may claim that they told the truth and the Aruban Authorities have told them to keep their mouths shut and they would cover it up to protect tourism.

Tacopina has said the Aruba Government is corrupt and so has everyone else.

This is so Slootish and a built in excuse. There will be many that believe the Aruban Authorities are to blame and not Joran and Paulus.

again, just my opinion, but anything is possible in the world of 'Rooba.

Hoo-boy!!! I have never thought about this from this angle.If true and this did happen,wouldn't the killers still be convicted and the rest of them just go down too?Would they be exhonerated just because they say they told the truth after we've seen Yoran on television lying over and over again?I could see this working for the Kalpoe's maybe, but not the Sloots?

[Rob]

Pinochet was charged with forced disappearances. Roughly 3000 political opponents. I would imagine that would be an issue the Hague would be interesting in if Chavez has committed the same crimes.

Pinochet was charged with the disappearances of people that were thrown out of helicopters into the sea.

[private eye]

His working theory is CYAA.  (Cover your Aruban ass)

If you were not the guy spouting off about protecting the suspect and tourism dollars, you might put it out there.  But if you are not allowed to have a theory and if you don't want to be a chandelier, you don't.

Hi Bearlyhere, right, I get that part. But doesn't he own it to Beth and Dave and the people of Aruba (who are suffering according to some) to at some point explain how he knows Natalee is not alive. I would think that is the least he could do. Whether he tells us or not is one thing, but doesn't the family have a right to know what happened to Natalee. Those are her family members and they have a right to know and a vested interest... as I think they will find out when a civil suit turns that island upside down and inside out.

And if Mos is never going to charge anyone, what difference does it make anyway?

Hi Rob,
  I was under the assumption that Beth is confident she already knows what happened to Natalee.She even said she is at peace knowing now.I haven't seen that reply from Dave so don't know what he thinks.You're right,Mos owes them an explanation but then again,so did all the others before him and yet here we are today.Just out of curiosity,how will a civil suit turn the island upside down and inside out?

I think she said this after hearing Joran confess because she believed at least half of his story.

From what I understand, and women men have known since they were born are still hard for them to accurately understand, Beth now knows that Natalee died as a result of being in a coma in the presence of Joran, that Joran was responsible for her being disposed of because she was in a coma and he didn't want to be bothered with her, that as a result of being disposed of she is indeed dead, that Joran had sexual relations with Natalee while she was not capable of giving consent, that Joran has absolutely no remorse over his actions, that he does have remorse about his guilt becoming public knowledge, that Joran's parents have to be aware of all of this at the least, that they are assholes, bastards, heartless perverts, and that she can't understand what jollies that Anita gets off of Natalee's panties. That if she ever thought she had Joran's underwear, she would call a hazardous wasted disposal company to come remove them and not save them as Anita did to sniff and enjoy them, or to use them as a sexual stimulus to arouse her limp d*ck husband.

Beth no longer has the nagging worry, yet ray of hope, that Natalee is alive and being held against her wishes as a sex slave. That Natalee is indeed in God's house, with absolutely no complaints.

Beth knows that Aruba and the Dirty Dutch Locals accomplished the cover up, and that barring Arubagate, she is asking people to boycott all travel to Aruba. And she feels if the US is really going to have a war on drugs, then lets actually fight it, and help the native Arubians take their country back from the drug lords. Our covert needs, the needs of Europe, and the needs of South America shouldn't be met at the expense of the man on the street in Aruba. This is their life, and Human Rights are just as important as covert actions. In fact, if we addressed the human rights of the area, maybe, just maybe, we would not need all of the covert actions in the world.

Last thought, over the top no doubt, as a nation we are sophisticated enough to know that the government has secrets that they cannot divulge to us. Why not fund these covert actions thru tax revenues instead of forcing our operatives to deal in cocaine or arms or whatever means of funding their own missions is profitable at the time. Tax revenues that they do not have to account to the public.

I am sure Beth would articulate her feelings much gentler, articulate, and politically "corrector" than I, but I think this represents the gist of her thoughts about the filming and the sense of peace that they gave her. But this is JMO.

[Tater]

Good Morning Monkeys!

In the line of civil suits.....I'm wondering, Who ALL could be called to testify or give statements....  I would assume anyone the lawyers decided may have information.  It would be a virtual who's who - I'd love to see the likes of Dennis Jacobs, KJ, Steve Croes, Vanderstraten, etc, etc. be REALLY questioned - by REAL attorneys - asking REAL questions - They'd HAVE to answer too... I am sure they'd lie - but my thing is, they ALL wouldn't have their stories practiced, and they could be picked apart in short order. 

And KOEN GOTTENBOS!!! I for one would like to see him on the stand answering a few questions!

[Destiny]

Has anyone heard from our Alabama monkeys?  Are they safe?

Not in Alabama...but...*real* close...weather is bad...bad here...tornado boxes....need the rain tho...power still on...thank God/Goddess for UPS backup   Front yard looks like a lake!

Good morning all ya'll!

In the 'north of Ham' here.  Just a few trees down, bass pond is now full!

Destiny, you are right!  I love my full house UPS!!!!

Mornin' Ala...and all the Fine Fine Monkeys!

Yeppers...UPS...only way to go on top of the mountain here....my pond never goes dry...it's fed by 5 artesian wells...have an overflow pipe that routes it back to the creek...

Tot...got your flippers on yet..LOL..

Back on topic...what I can't toss out of my mind...I was always under the assumption that the 6 photos had been sent to Dave by the Persistence...now we *know* that was not the case...the FBI sent the pix to Dave...what I want to know is this...WHY did the FBI do what the persistence was forbidden to do...we all *know* the pix were never meant to be posted...sh*t happens and they were....and we all *know* they caused quite a stir on multiple levels when they made their debut on the internet.....hmmmmmmm

Is it just me...*why* did the FBI send the pix to Dave...when I thought it was the Persistence...I even had the idea that they were sent to Dave just to show him how clear/sharp photos, any photos taken could be...but them being sent to FBI *only*...well that blew that idea out of the water for me...more hmmmmmmm...