Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 - 3/5/08

[Rob]

Now that may be more detail than I have or that we will ever know, whether she actually saw them or they were described to her by her son. It is even more perverse if Joran described the panties to his momma. What kind of conversation would result in such a declaration. It would be much more, don't laugh, logical, for Anita to have found the underwear. I do my daughter's laundry and those things don't take up a lot of space. In fact, you should try folding them:) I thought Joran claimed to collect them as trophies. So I assumed they were on his wall next to Guido's, Paulus, Depaak, Satish, and God knows who elses.

Well, Greta said she wanted to crawl under the table, so whatever happened it made even Greta uncomfortable.

Anita and her new age hippism makes most uncomfortable. I can only imagine what the gerbils in her brain cavity really think of her.

Who says those gerbils are in her brain cavity and not another?Ugh,this woman need therapy...I am so grossed out and horrified for Beth that had to sit within a couple of feet of her...

Tot, I grew up with a lot of that type of thinking. And it was hoorrrrible. Food co-ops, Helen Ready, NOW, yada yada yada. Hippies all over the house. Everyone protesting something...

thank God it's over... and I do not look back on those times fondly LOLLOLOL

[private eye]

I've got to run some errands, but I wanted to warn Kyle yesterday that when you post to such an interested, informed, and broadly experienced and skilled group as this, you never have any idea which word, which phrase, which though, or which sentence the posters are going to lock in on, and when they do, the poster is going to be amazed at the accuracy and breadth of the cage. When he was explaining the image enhancing courses he had taken, and I truly believe him, I value the formal edcuational process, and I am so hoping he will stay with us as a regualar poster, sometime he is going to throw something out and before he can blink, the image is already going to be enhanced by someone who may not know what course he was talking about, but by God they know where to turn to get the job done. It is humbling. I'll never forget my first few days on here.

 I was run out of dodge for an off the wall comment I thought no one would even notice. I made it because I was uncomfortable with the discussion of the day and my mind just wanted to retreat. But I was certainly wrong. EVERYBODY NOTICED IT AND DISAPPROVED BIG TIME:) This can be a scary cage:)

[Bladerunner]

I called a fellow Monkey and friend of Beth's and it was her understanding that it came up during the interview with Beth and Greta at the VDS off camera. I have never understood how that came up, and if it did, why Anita's teeth weren't slapped slam out of her mouth and the sweat slapped clean off the face and body of Paulus on the spot, but apparently cooler heads prevailed.


And no doubt a big reason that porker who can't work his own fly was sweating like a pig.

also PI, if I recall correctly, Beth said after that meeting ~ she got what she came for. That was kind of vague and could imply that the she knew Natalee was at the house or that Anita or Paulus knew more than they disclosed.

it's confusing.

Also, from that segment Greta and Beth are on the beach and are talking about how shocked and bewildered they were that Anita and maybe Paulus had gone into very graphic detail of what I'm assuming was Joran's story about what he did with Natalee in the backseat of the K2 car. "Very disturbing" was a comment that sticks in my head. If someone could pull that transcpript that would be helpful.

Either way, I can't understand how you can be so restrained as to sit down and talk with the person that disposed of your daughter, in their home, which is very likely THE crime scene. Wow, amazing courage and fortitude!

[SunnyinTX]

from Loving Natalee...pg 149

the meeting in the sloots house with grata and Beth

Now it's my turn. I have no intentions of a matching her good-boy remarks with good-girl comments. And cut to the chase. Graphically repeating the very words said by their son a couple of weeks ago in his statements made on June 9, 10 and 13.  The vile account that was read to me in the attorney gemeral's office. the sexually explicit words used by Joran to describe what he did to Natale. Calmer than I have ever been in my whole life and without blinking, I tell them which fingers he said he used.  Where he said he put them. How their son described my daughtes' public area, her underwear. How Joran said she was falling asleep and waking up, falling asleep and waking up. I tell them of his conflicting stories of what happened, the different places he said it happened. Little beads of sweat form across Paulus' brow and forehead.

[Tater]

from Loving Natalee...pg 149

the meeting in the sloots house with grata and Beth

Now it's my turn. I have no intentions of a matching her good-boy remarks with good-girl comments. And cut to the chase. Graphically repeating the very words said by their son a couple of weeks ago in his statements made on June 9, 10 and 13.  The vile account that was read to me in the attorney gemeral's office. the sexually explicit words used by Joran to describe what he did to Natale. Calmer than I have ever been in my whole life and without blinking, I tell them which fingers he said he used.  Where he said he put them. How their son described my daughtes' public area, her underwear. How Joran said she was falling asleep and waking up, falling asleep and waking up. I tell them of his conflicting stories of what happened, the different places he said it happened. Little beads of sweat form across Paulus' brow and forehead.

I am so getting into full blown heartburn again.Everytime I get angry this is what happens.I think I'll go figure out what's on the menu tonight for dinner after I reach for the Pepcid and do some praying.See ya'll in awhile..Monkey Hugs...

[Jerry from Ohio]

 This only goes to show what type on mental mind set that the Van Der Slut family has for an operating system, being supposedly adults and educated professionals at that this shows just how mental illness and personality disorders not only RUN in this family  they are on a full fledged STAMPEDE !
  Be ware Aruba keep your children away from any of these sociopath persons .

I called a fellow Monkey and friend of Beth's and it was her understanding that it came up during the interview with Beth and Greta at the VDS off camera. I have never understood how that came up, and if it did, why Anita's teeth weren't slapped slam out of her mouth and the sweat slapped clean off the face and body of Paulus on the spot, but apparently cooler heads prevailed.


And no doubt a big reason that porker who can't work his own fly was sweating like a pig.

also PI, if I recall correctly, Beth said after that meeting ~ she got what she came for. That was kind of vague and could imply that the she knew Natalee was at the house or that Anita or Paulus knew more than they disclosed.

it's confusing.

Also, from that segment Greta and Beth are on the beach and are talking about how shocked and bewildered they were that Anita and maybe Paulus had gone into very graphic detail of what I'm assuming was Joran's story about what he did with Natalee in the backseat of the K2 car. "Very disturbing" was a comment that sticks in my head. If someone could pull that transcpript that would be helpful.

Either way, I can't understand how you can be so restrained as to sit down and talk with the person that disposed of your daughter, in their home, which is very likely THE crime scene. Wow, amazing courage and fortitude!

[martini]

from Loving Natalee...pg 149

the meeting in the sloots house with grata and Beth

Now it's my turn. I have no intentions of a matching her good-boy remarks with good-girl comments. And cut to the chase. Graphically repeating the very words said by their son a couple of weeks ago in his statements made on June 9, 10 and 13.  The vile account that was read to me in the attorney gemeral's office. the sexually explicit words used by Joran to describe what he did to Natale. Calmer than I have ever been in my whole life and without blinking, I tell them which fingers he said he used.  Where he said he put them. How their son described my daughtes' public area, her underwear. How Joran said she was falling asleep and waking up, falling asleep and waking up. I tell them of his conflicting stories of what happened, the different places he said it happened. Little beads of sweat form across Paulus' brow and forehead.

I am so getting into full blown heartburn again.Everytime I get angry this is what happens.I think I'll go figure out what's on the menu tonight for dinner after I reach for the Pepcid and do some praying.See ya'll in awhile..Monkey Hugs...

The underpants thing makes me sick too.

Hang in there, when I get mad or angry I think of something silly just to release the steam.
Here is a silly example~
Joran's new name is Poopsie Picklesniffer~

http://apps.scholastic.com/captainunderpants/NameGame/play.htm

[Castaglance]

Snip:
Hang in there, when I get mad or angry I think of something silly just to release the steam.
Here is a silly example~
Joran's new name is Poopsie Picklesniffer~

http://apps.scholastic.com/captainunderpants/NameGame/play.htm



[/quote]

son of Paulie Pervdripper  *compliments of the paulie perv creator this morning

[SunnyinTX]

from Loving Natalee...pg 149

the meeting in the sloots house with Greta and Beth

Now it's my turn. I have no intentions of a matching her good-boy remarks with good-girl comments. And cut to the chase. Graphically repeating the very words said by their son a couple of weeks ago in his statements made on June 9, 10 and 13.  The vile account that was read to me in the attorney general's office. the sexually explicit words used by Joran to describe what he did to Natalee. Calmer than I have ever been in my whole life and without blinking, I tell them which fingers he said he used.  Where he said he put them. How their son described my daughter's' pubic area, her underwear. How Joran said she was falling asleep and waking up, falling asleep and waking up. I tell them of his conflicting stories of what happened, the different places he said it happened. Little beads of sweat form across Paulus' brow and forehead.

oooppssss sorry for the typos...I think I  correct them all

[Tamikosmom]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/915059.stm

Thursday, 7 September, 2000, 18:40 GMT 19:40 UK
Drug submarine found in Colombia

<snipped>

Thank you Klaas.

The protection of the tourist dollar that feeds an underground economy throughout the Carribean appears to have always been the motivation behind the coverup in the Natalee Holloway case.

Justice for Natalee Holloway would have demanded ... not just accountability from Joran or Paulus for their roles but ... also the the Excelsior Casino and Carlos and Charlies where ...  as John Q. Kelly stated ... the entire chain of events that resulted in the demise of an 18 year old American citizen would never have happened if an underage Joran van der Sloot had not been allowed on the premises to gamble and drink.

At 17 years of age ... could it be that Joran van der Sloot was  already an active contributor to that underground economy ... the underground economy that encompasses gambling ... drugs ... pornography ...

Janet

++++++++++++


CARLOS 'N CHARLIES

Joran van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 9, 2005

After that we drove straight to Carlos & Charlies. Deepak was the driver but I cannot remember now who was sitting beside him. I do not remember now if it was Satish or me. I estimate that we arrived at Carlos & Charlies between 00.15 and 00.30 hours. Deepak parked his car on the parking lot behind Carlos & Charlies and after that we walked into the building of Carlos & Charlies. I don't have to pay because I have a VIP pass. With my VIP pass Deepak and Satish were also allowed in.

To your question as to who gave me the VIP pass to Carlos & Charlies, I answer you that I got it through the office of Carlos & Charlies. I do not remember with the help of who I got the VIP pass. I got to Carlos & Charlies about one to three times a week.


EXCELSIOR CASINO

Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 39 - Following our brief conversation, we all walk immediately to the fron desk to ask about someone named Joran who is staying in the hotel and plays in the casino here.  The Holiday Inn night manager, Brenda, knows him by name.  "Oh! yes ... yes ... Joran.  He gambles in the Excelsior Casino here.  He likes to prey on young female tourists.  Especially the blonds.  He is tall.  Good-looking boy.  Like a Dutch marine."  My mouth drops wide open.  "Where is he from?" I ask her.  She replies.  "He lives in Aruba."  I stutter.  "He's ... he's not a tourist just here for the summer?"  "Non, non," she says.

It takes a few moments to absorb this information.  The supposed tourist who befriended some of Natalee's classmates and who told them he was staying at their hotel lied tothem.  He isn't a tourist.  He isn't styaing here.


RADISSON CASINO

Deepak Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 13, 2005

Andre asked me to come inside. I did go inside. I did not play, but did look at the cards of Joran and Guido.

At some given moment in time a tourist who was sitting at Joran's table got angry. The tourist thought that we were looking at the cards of other players and signaling/deciding for Joran when he should play or not. It lead to a disagreement between Joran and the tourist. The manager of the Radisson Casino came over and everything calmed down. I drank about four "whisky coke" gedronken in the Radisson Casino. I now that Joran drank more because the waiters were constantly bringing him drinks.   I am not sure .what he was drinking. His drinks were of a yellow colour. I think it was “whisky soda" or 'Whisky water".

[Castaglance]

Looked it up...credit Bearly, love the new name you bestowed
What new key needed do you think Caps refers to?

[Tamikosmom]

Dave Holloway/Tim Miller
'The Abrams Report'
October 24, 2005

ABRAMS:  Dave, you are in Aruba searching for Natalee, but you‘re not just searching in random areas, right?  You‘re getting guidance as to where you should look? 

D. HOLLOWAY:  Yes, for the first time we have gotten some guidance on what areas to focus our search efforts on. 

ABRAMS:  And where is that coming from? 

D. HOLLOWAY:  That‘s coming from Chief Dompig himself.

ABRAMS:  So the chief is telling you, you know, look in a particular area.  Do you want to tell us where generally or how he‘s coming up with these areas? 

D. HOLLOWAY:  Well, I know it‘s—of course, it‘s no secret now, he had indicated that we needed to center our efforts out in the ocean and that‘s what we‘re doing. 

ABRAMS:  And why haven‘t the Aruban authorities looked in these areas? 

D. HOLLOWAY:  Well, I don‘t think they have the capabilities of doing what we‘re trying to do.  We‘ve got some people from United States in that has sonar search capabilities and the Aruban authorities do not.  So that‘s what we‘re doing. 

ABRAMS:  And how long are you going to stay there, Dave?

D. HOLLOWAY:  Well I‘m scheduled to go back Thursday.  In fact, we—

Tim Miller and I came over here to plan a search for the dump area and then after we met with the police authorities, we were redirected to search out in the ocean and I‘ve extended my trip now by seven more days, so I intend to come back possibly by Thursday.  Who knows?  So I think EquuSearch is going to stay to the end, so...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9813142/

[SunnyinTX]

Loving Natalee - pg. 148 - Greta, Beth at the sloots house.

'Anita tells us all about Joran and what a good by he is. How smart he is. I let her go on and on, as this gives me time to listen, look, assess. As she continues, she begins to share with us what a difficult time they have had with him recently.  How he exhibits oppositional defiance and is disrespectful to his mother. How they are beginning to lose control of him as he sneaks out at night and comes and goes as he pleases. After about 30 minutes she concludes by telling us Joran is seeing a psychologist for his defiant behaviour.'

Many parts of the books...both Beth's and Dave's have haunted me...but this in particular....Prelude to a Killer I call it...these parents know their son is spiraling downwards and do what..other than send him to a psychologist? Who knows if he even went? How long? They give him his own apartment?  Sure get him out of your way!!  The father takes him to the casino and buys him porn..instead of controlling him..what kind of people are they...one hides her head in the sand and the other gives him the tools he needs to continue on the path to murder

[Rob]

Janet, if Dompig intentionally steered everyone away from the dump and to the sea all the while knowing Natalee was not in the sea - that would have to be the worst thing anyone has done yet. I can't think of too many things that would equal that.

Wasting resources, placing lives in danger, raising the hopes of Natalee's family and friends.... it would be unconscionable. Beyond the pale.

However, his own son tells the story of the sea also.

As we know, Jamie Skeeters polygraphed Junior and he couldn't even get his name right. And I agree with your earlier statements that drug addicts are not precluded from the truth.

[caesu]

week before the attack resulting in the death of Raúl Reyes it was revealed that the Colombian government, with assistance of the U.S. federal government's FBI and DEA, had wiretapped several satellite phones purchased in Miami and then delivered to FARC forces in Southern Colombia.

http://www.eltiempo.com/justicia/2008-02-20/ARTICULO-WEB-NOTA_INTERIOR-3964744.html
http://www.elnuevoherald.com/noticias/septimo_dia/story/169043.html

[Tater]

from Loving Natalee...pg 149

the meeting in the sloots house with grata and Beth

Now it's my turn. I have no intentions of a matching her good-boy remarks with good-girl comments. And cut to the chase. Graphically repeating the very words said by their son a couple of weeks ago in his statements made on June 9, 10 and 13.  The vile account that was read to me in the attorney gemeral's office. the sexually explicit words used by Joran to describe what he did to Natale. Calmer than I have ever been in my whole life and without blinking, I tell them which fingers he said he used.  Where he said he put them. How their son described my daughtes' public area, her underwear. How Joran said she was falling asleep and waking up, falling asleep and waking up. I tell them of his conflicting stories of what happened, the different places he said it happened. Little beads of sweat form across Paulus' brow and forehead.

I am so getting into full blown heartburn again.Everytime I get angry this is what happens.I think I'll go figure out what's on the menu tonight for dinner after I reach for the Pepcid and do some praying.See ya'll in awhile..Monkey Hugs...

The underpants thing makes me sick too.

Hang in there, when I get mad or angry I think of something silly just to release the steam.
Here is a silly example~
Joran's new name is Poopsie Picklesniffer~

http://apps.scholastic.com/captainunderpants/NameGame/play.htm

Lol...That makes me Flunky BananaFanny...I think I'm offended but I still think Paulas the Pervie is the hoot of the day...

[Finbar]

Yes. Misdirection away from the landfill.

How many of Aruba's investigators were at the dump helping Dave dig?

Didn't they make him get permits or something?

Covered up the holes that they had dug.

Maybe the witness did not see them burying a body, but digging it back up to be moved. I think CAPS posted that. Insightful.

The ocean makes sense, being on finite island land, but if willing conspirators kept moving and reburying the body - makes it difficult to find.

Dompig gave many conflicting opinions on the case. Related to Kalpoe?


Fin

[dennisintn]

PI, thank you for your thoughts and feeling on Beth. With every post you make, We (I) get a better understanding of some of the dynamics and I truly appreciate that.

One area I am confused about - That would be Natalee's underwear. Are you saying that Anita actually held (had) that garment in her possession?

To me that would be off the charts!!!

Can you please clarify that?

I am sure someone on here can credential that better than I , but I THINK I have heard beth say that Anita described Natalee's underwear accurately, or at least one pair, and I am almost positive that I have read that on this site. I am sure Klaas or Janet can verify or correct.

as I recall, that was from when Beth and Greta went to the Sloot house of Horrors and Anita described the underwear, but I am unaware that she actually saw them or had them in her possession. It seems that Joran described them to her and she related the color and embroidery.

Someone correct me if this is not correct.

rob, you're correct.  anita also described "points of interest" about natalee's body that jvds had "shared" with her.  greta said she felt like crawling under the table while anita was talking about this.  it makes my skin crawl just thinking about mothers and sons having that kind of conversation. 
dennisintn

[Tamikosmom]

Janet, if Dompig intentionally steered everyone away from the dump and to the sea all the while knowing Natalee was not in the sea - that would have to be the worst thing anyone has done yet. I can't think of too many things that would equal that.
Wasting resources, placing lives in danger, raising the hopes of Natalee's family and friends.... it would be unconscionable. Beyond the pale.

However, his own son tells the story of the sea also.

As we know, Jamie Skeeters polygraphed Junior and he couldn't even get his name right. And I agree with your earlier statements that drug addicts are not precluded from the truth.

Rob ...

Think about it ... if you were part of the Aruban coverup to protect Joran and Paulus van der Sloot ... would you steer Natalee Holloway's family in the direction that would expose the truth.

Either you believe that Gerald Dompig and ... the Aruban police under Jan van der Straaten/Dennis Jacobs ... who were instrumental is directing Tim and Dave's attention away from the landfill and to the sea on the west side of the island ... are part of the the coverup that has denied Natalee Holloway justice or ... you do not.

You know where I stand.

Janet

+++++++++++++

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2600.msg349370;topicseen#msg349370

Quote from: klaasend on February 14, 2008, 01:11:08 AM

Scared Monkeys Radio
Dana Pretzer
February 13, 2008

<snipped>

Dana: I'm going to throw out some names to you, I'm curious what you have to say .. Jossy Mansur

Beth:  Absolutely heroic, what a man, my goodness, what a businessman he is, full of integrity, I stand by Jossy b/c he's an individual who stands for human rights and justice, gosh, what he did for me is take such a burden off of me going after these perpetrators, I felt like I had no other ally, he went out on a limb for no reason except doing the right thing, he has integrity and respect for human life,

Dana: van der Stratten

Beth: He's corrupt to the core of his existence.  He just doesn't deserve any more words.


Dave Holloway
'The Abrams Report'
October 24, 2005

ABRAMS:  Dave, you are in Aruba searching for Natalee, but you‘re not just searching in random areas, right?  You‘re getting guidance as to where you should look? 

D. HOLLOWAY:  Yes, for the first time we have gotten some guidance on what areas to focus our search efforts on. 

ABRAMS:  And where is that coming from? 

D. HOLLOWAY:  That‘s coming from Chief Dompig himself.

ABRAMS:  So the chief is telling you, you know, look in a particular area.  Do you want to tell us where generally or how he‘s coming up with these areas? 

D. HOLLOWAY:  Well, I know it‘s—of course, it‘s no secret now, the had indicated that we needed to center our efforts out in the ocean and that‘s what we‘re doing.
 
<snipped>

D. HOLLOWAY:  Tim Miller and I came over here to plan a search for the dump area and then after we met with the police authorities, we were redirected to search out in the ocean.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9813142/

[Rob]

Janet, I'm not sure it matters what I believe. Just what Dave believes. He believes that Dompigs hands were tied by "higher ups"...

I do not know if he gave Dave the info he needed or was jerking him around... I just don't know. I'm sorry.