Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 - 3/5/08

[Rob]

Kyle thanks for the explanation. Can you tell us who was in the trap? or is it an unknown?

Apparently there is DNA, so that indicates a body.

[Tamikosmom]

There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.  Video 1 : 29th Dec - ROV visual inspection of the trap.  (very small clip of this video on Dateline).  Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.

Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them.  

What you all really didn't know (nor Tim Miller when he said his statements to the press, neither Dateline NBC when they broadcasted their lovely special):

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series. 

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.

Thank you.

Janet

[private eye]

There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.  Video 1 : 29th Dec - ROV visual inspection of the trap.  (very small clip of this video on Dateline).  Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.
Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them. 

What you all really didn't know (nor Tim Miller when he said his statements to the press, neither Dateline NBC when they broadcasted their lovely special):

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series. 

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.

Why did the Persistence not get more TV time on the Dateline. I was expecting an hour long special on the workings of the boat, and I assume there were literally hundreds of hours of film footage that would have made fascinating television viewing?

[Bladerunner]

OE post excerpt:

"WHAT do you think you are doing?  What do you seriously think you are going to accomplish with the pics?  Don't you even think to consider for a second that we the search team, who found the trap, supervised it's sampling, recorded that video and others... are ensuring the situation is in proper hands and being taken care of appropriately and completely?  "


I think I missed this the first time, I wonder how many other videos they shot that they have "ensured are in proper hands?" 

Also, what else did they find and film?   


[/quote

There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.  Video 1 : 29th Dec - ROV visual inspection of the trap.  (very small clip of this video on Dateline).  Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.
Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them. 

What you all really didn't know (nor Tim Miller when he said his statements to the press, neither Dateline NBC when they broadcasted their lovely special):

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series. 

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.

Wow, that was one hell of a first target! Reaffirms the methodical process you and others implemented.

[jackb]

CAPS  Thank you for the info and summary of the telearuba program last night.  thank you also for all info, translations, etc.  I am really glad you are here and a Monkey. Thank you!!!!

JackB I think you ask what is "bogart a spliff"  bogart is when you either take a really long, hard drag of a tobacco like product and/or you hang onto the tobaaco like product for a long time, not allowing others to share.  Spliff or blunt is a part tobacco, part weed cigarrette.

Jo-ann I think you posted about friends of jurin's currently posting that his 2 younger brothers where in Netherlands with avds.  THANK YOU FOR THAT INFO!!!!!!  Many of us here were given that same info in June 2005 by people in aruba and not friends of the people of the ditch (love that name!).  Also a Monkey found out that 3 people of the ditch (3 van der sloots) flew from nl to aruba the day avds said she came home around June 1.  IMO, pvds needed his younger sons home for an alibi and that is when that story change.  Thanks again for posting that info.


Welcome all new and newish Monkeys.  It is so great to have you all here.


******* sorry for the loss of you 2 beloved pets.  PS I don't have the ability to differentiate between animal types. So the loss of a dog, cat is a much as a human to me.

Thanks (you sound like a dh to me) old friend of the family.  Anyway that, I thought was part of the female anatomy from the way he was talking.  Trying to keep up with the old and new sayings.  Not too good at either.   Thanks, Jack

[Anna]

Thanks (you sound like a dh to me) old friend of the family.  Anyway that, I thought was part of the female anatomy from the way he was talking.  Trying to keep up with the old and new sayings.  Not too good at either.   Thanks, Jack

I think this comes from the way Humphrey Bogart would have a cigarette dangling out of his mouth while talking, etc. his movies in essence wasting a joint.  Years ago there was a song "Don't Bogart that Joint, My Friend, Pass It On to Me."


.

[jackb]

Kyle thanks for the explanation. Can you tell us who was in the trap? or is it an unknown?

Apparently there is DNA, so that indicates a body.

Common sense goes a long way.  You sound like you got plenty.    jackb

[jackb]

There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.  Video 1 : 29th Dec - ROV visual inspection of the trap.  (very small clip of this video on Dateline).  Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.

Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them.  

What you all really didn't know (nor Tim Miller when he said his statements to the press, neither Dateline NBC when they broadcasted their lovely special):

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series. 

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.

Thank you.

But......your dive pics were different is what you are saying?  I agree.  jack blue.  They were.     

Janet

[private eye]

Any estimations as to the dimensions and weight of the cage, or based upon the general conditions of the cage, coral build up, rust, etc. how long the cage had been submersed? It looked awfully large, but water can distort sizes to a certain extent. It looked a lot larger than the cages that would have been at the fishermans hut.

[jackb]

Old Fart...the Persistence has left Aruba as of this morning at 8:20AM according to LegallyLex at BFN.... there are pictures of the boat leaving but they asked for them not to be moved off the site... 

Yes, I just read that over there. Well, it won't be long before those photos will be all over...starting with RU, I'll bet. Hell, 1/2 of RU are members at BFN and BNH. How do they expect those photos to stay there . I won't take them, but we all know MANY from RU and BNH sure will!!

What a way to promote a DONATION. This is ridiculous, like BFN are the only ones that cared, supported and have donated?

So Kyle is sort of a cabin boy?

I was catching up this morning and came across the above post and found it odd that it was asked the pics not leave BFN as IF  no one but BFN members are the only ones that care, have supported, donated, spent endless hours..etc ..on and on.

It's just odd to me that the pics of the Persistence photos leaving Aruba have been requested to stay on BFN.

Sounds like of like a deliberate snub, doesn't it?

Well, I'm just not going to be offended anyway.  Their frustration level had to be off the chart.  Maybe Kyle will give us some explanation when he gets home and rested up.  Will withhold judgment until then.

And even if he doesn't, we are all on the same team.  And Tim Miller was a part of that search and I know he would never want to do anything to snub the Monkeys.

They all still have my gratitude and prayers and wishes for a return to finish the search if it is deemed likely to find Natalee.

We have to be uniters and not dividers and all the supporters of Natalee's family must pull together even if we don't always agree on things and I mean the search crew and BFN as well as any supporters anywhere.

It's still about Natalee for me, egos be damned no matter whose they are. I'm here now basically for Beth, to be perfectly candid.  I don't really care what games they play with pictures anyway.  They gave months of their lives and I love them for that no matter what else they may do.


jmoo

They (the authorities) can still maintain the chain of evidence; their chain.  Perhaps they (those appearing to snub) are not realizing that.  Again, there are most likely reasons other than the "snub."  However some people do tend to be thinking themselves "special."  It is their whole life to be on the inside of a circle.  There are many circles, but one life.  These same people will suck the sap out of each other and move on and try to do the same thing in as many "circles" as they can until they are convinced they are the circle. What I am comparing this to is a street scene murder where there is a yellow tape, but still onlookers can see a lot, but not know the circumstances and cannot see as well as those inside the tape.  Yes, they are being over cautious for either lack of knowledge or maybe even   financial gain,   LOL   Jackb

[Peaches]

One more time. You cannot call an airline and ask who WAS on a plane.  They will not tell you because 1) they aren't allowed to 2) it's none of your business 3) the person you talk to does not have that information anyway.  If you fly on Monday, 24 hours later, flight information is now past date....all of it.  You can't even tell if it was on time or not once 24hours passes. 

If you call the airline, they don't know you from Adam's housecat.  They are not and cannot say with 100% certainty that someone is on an airplane.  They can tell you whether or not someone is "checked in" which is not the same as whose butt in the seat, assuming there is a butt in the seat.  They can tell you who has a reservation (but they're not really supposed to and you best have a good story if you think you're going to get that information.) 

Since 9/11, I would imagine things have changed somewhat.   Rules about passenger information and privacy are probably tighter than they used to be. 

My point is we really don't know if the two younger Sloots were with Anita in Holland or not.  Calling KLM a couple weeks later is not going to net you that information because the records are long gone by then.  I'm sure a subpoena would be necessary to obtain the information from microfiche (this is where the info used to go).   

[katrien]

Jo-ann I think you posted about friends of jurin's currently posting that his 2 younger brothers where in Netherlands with avds.  THANK YOU FOR THAT INFO!!!!!!  Many of us here were given that same info in June 2005 by people in aruba and not friends of the people of the ditch (love that name!).  Also a Monkey found out that 3 people of the ditch (3 van der sloots) flew from nl to aruba the day avds said she came home around June 1.  IMO, pvds needed his younger sons home for an alibi and that is when that story change.  Thanks again for posting that info.

Here are the posts from Fok.

Beth Holloway in Jensen tomorrow? I'll have a look.

kinkajoe
donderdag 28 februari 2008 @ 18:12 (#27)   
         
Op zaterdag 23 februari 2008 15:56 schreef mrBhimself het volgende:
En overigens Anita van der Sloot was helemaal niet in Amerika, maar was samen met haar jongste twee kinderen in Nederland op bezoek bij haar moeder. Je bent wederom eens slecht geinformeerd!
Volgens deze poster was Mw. v.d. Sloot met twee kinderen in Nederland.

 mrBhimself
donderdag 28 februari 2008 @ 18:56 (#28)   
                 
Inderdaad
Don't follow leaders, watch the parking meters

Mr B says: "and by the way, Anita van der Sloot was not at all in America, but with her youngest two children in Holland to visit her mother. You are again very bad informed"

Kinkajoe quotes this sentence in a thread about the brothers and says: "according to this poster Mrs. v.d. Sloot was with two children in Holland".

Mr B came to the thread about the brothers to say: "Indeed, don't follow leaders, watch the parking meters".

[oceanexploration]

Any estimations as to the dimensions and weight of the cage, or based upon the general conditions of the cage, coral build up, rust, etc. how long the cage had been submersed? It looked awfully large, but water can distort sizes to a certain extent. It looked a lot larger than the cages that would have been at the fishermans hut.

The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  You're correct about the ROV video lens distorting perspective due to the paralax view lens. 

[private eye]

One more time. You cannot call an airline and ask who WAS on a plane.  They will not tell you because 1) they aren't allowed to 2) it's none of your business 3) the person you talk to does not have that information anyway.  If you fly on Monday, 24 hours later, flight information is now past date....all of it.  You can't even tell if it was on time or not once 24hours passes. 

If you call the airline, they don't know you from Adam's housecat.  They are not and cannot say with 100% certainty that someone is on an airplane.  They can tell you whether or not someone is "checked in" which is not the same as whose butt in the seat, assuming there is a butt in the seat.  They can tell you who has a reservation (but they're not really supposed to and you best have a good story if you think you're going to get that information.) 

Since 9/11, I would imagine things have changed somewhat.   Rules about passenger information and privacy are probably tighter than they used to be. 

My point is we really don't know if the two younger Sloots were with Anita in Holland or not.  Calling KLM a couple weeks later is not going to net you that information because the records are long gone by then.  I'm sure a subpoena would be necessary to obtain the information from microfiche (this is where the info used to go).   

Didn't Paulus give a sworn statement that he watched at least one of the smaller boys get on the bus the next day?

[Kermit]

[private eye]

Any estimations as to the dimensions and weight of the cage, or based upon the general conditions of the cage, coral build up, rust, etc. how long the cage had been submersed? It looked awfully large, but water can distort sizes to a certain extent. It looked a lot larger than the cages that would have been at the fishermans hut.

The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  You're correct about the ROV video lens distorting perspective due to the paralax view lens. 

It may distort sizes but I was amazed at the clarity and resolution of the photo's. Thats why I wish sometime I get to see the film footage on television. I would think you got to view some spectacular sights in general. And the technology involved would make great viewing

[Peaches]

Yes, PI, he did.  Early on, we were told the two youngest boys were in Anita.  Someone said they checked with the airline.  BS. 

The whereabouts of the boys is questionable.  First, they were with Anita.  Later, when Paulus needed them for an alibi, suddenly Anita was in Holland alone.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. 

[Peaches]

Any estimations as to the dimensions and weight of the cage, or based upon the general conditions of the cage, coral build up, rust, etc. how long the cage had been submersed? It looked awfully large, but water can distort sizes to a certain extent. It looked a lot larger than the cages that would have been at the fishermans hut.

The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  You're correct about the ROV video lens distorting perspective due to the paralax view lens. 

So could two adults pick it up and move it without a crane?  As in, to move it from the area near the Fisherman's Huts to the water....not too far.

[private eye]

At your age and at the pace the technology is developing, you will get to discover the last frontier on earth, the ocean floor. That should make for a very exciting and rewarding career.

[Kat_Gram]

I am happy with the explanation from OE. I did read Kyle's CV when I first learned his name. This was not a haphazard search by amateurs. Certainly is alot of mis communication on these blogs.