Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 - 3/5/08

[Jo-An]

Corruption can't be wiped out from higher-up

Today in Dutch newspaper "De Pers" (the Press) there is an interview with Hans de Doelder, professor criminal law in Rotterdam and he's revising the penal code in the Antilles and he is a replacement judge over there.
He is criticizing Hero Brinkman for judging the corruption-situation in the Antilles, because Brinkman has never even been over there.

Main points that de Doelder is talking about:
-of course there's corruption in the Antilles, like there is everywhere
-corruption is less wide spread than for instance Italy, Dominican Republic and Haiti
-politicians in the Antilles are "nice" to people who vote for them
-because of all the nepotism "bad" and unqualified people end up having the wrong jobs (o really???   )
-he notices that Antillian papers are becoming more and more critical of the crooked job appointments
-Antillians who feel disadvantaged by all the political job appointments are speaking out more now. That's a sign, says de Doelder, that people want get rid of the nepotism and corruption

The whole piece can be found here:
http://www.depers.nl/binnenland/178733/Corruptie-niet-van-boven-uit-te-roeien.html

[Observer]

What I think about Joran van der sloot (From a Dutchie)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLpRl-OuAsY&feature=related

[Observer]

Hmm..This picture and article says Hero Brinkman was in Curacao and Aruba in January 

Fellow Monkeys!

This Dutch Member of Parliament may help!

His name: Hero Brinkman

You can contact him via this link:

http://www.pvv.nl/index.php?option=com_facileforms&Itemid=114

He went on a important parlemantairy working visit to the Antilles and Aruba in january.
But the working visit got aborted because he wouldn't take back his remarks he made about the islands.
He called the Antilles and Aruba "a corrupt gangsters' nest".
Because that visit got aborted the current visit of prime-minister Balkenende is somewhat of a joke because nothing can get done.

Jan van der Straten is police chief on Bonaire now apparently.
He treathened to arrest him if he would say nasty things about the island.

Police chief wants to arrest PVV-MP

AMSTERDAM - The politie chief of Bonaire wanted PVV-member of parliament Brinkman to have arrested if he would say unpleasant things about the Antilles on the island. "Brinkman is not impeded by knowledge of the Antilles, this man knows nothing about the Antilles," police chief Jan van der Straten said to the newspaper Amigoe. "If he made his comments on Bonaire, I would have a least attempted to arrest him for slandering the population", says police chief Van der Straten in the newspaper.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3010706/_Politiechef_wilde_PVVer_arresteren__.html?pageNumber=3

PVV-MP Hero Brinkman is protected by two bodyguards at arrival on Curaçao

Political consultation Antilles can not continue

WILLEMSTAD - The parliamentary consultation Kingdom relations (POK) on Curaçao does not continue in its whole, after PVV-member of parliament Hero Brinkman has been denied the access to the states. As long as Brinkman has offered no excuses for its description of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba as a "corrupt gangster' nest", the Antillian police force had the authorisation to remove the politician if needed from the building

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/2970152/_Politiek_overleg_Antillen_afgelast__.html

He never took his comments back.
Last year he said he wanted to sell the islands on e-bay.
This also caused outrage by other MP's.
On his webpage on the right it says "The Antilles out of the Kingdom".
It is really his issue this corruption problem.

You can contact him via this link:

http://www.pvv.nl/index.php?option=com_facileforms&Itemid=114

I think the Dutch are for a large part responsible for the mess by sending incompetent prosecutors, judges to the islands.
They used the island for the scum of the Dutch officials, like Karin Janssen.
To prevent a scandal in The Netherlands they got send over there.

Really, if all Dutchies knew what you guys have been doing the last few years I am sure things start moving forward.

Like Peter R. de Vries said: 'case solved'.
Now it is time for the next chapter in my opinion.

To uncover the cover-up.

I doubt ALE is going to do this by themselves.

Of course I am e-mailing him to explain as good as I can what's going on.
But maybe some if you are better at that.

You can contact him via this link:

http://www.pvv.nl/index.php?option=com_facileforms&Itemid=114

[jackb]

Re: Guido

i've NEVER believed that Guido had makeup on because he was gay (according to Spong)

he had that makeup on to try to cover those scratches, IMO


any of you know any 'gays' that wear makeup? 

Koen, Joran, and Guido supposed to have had marks on them.  Who knows they waited for everyone to heal before arresting them.   Also I have the picture of Koen on a plane with his dad and younger brother if anyone wants to see it.  I may have sent it to Klass, I meant to.  Anyway she has the one where Koen is dressed a bit ladylike.   jack b

[Jo-An]

Hmm..This picture and article says Hero Brinkman was in Curacao and Aruba in January 

I think de Doelder was talking more about Brinkman not knowing the situation over there.
And Brinkman's visit was aborted so technically he wás on the island but the visit was then aborted.

[jackb]

IIRC, this is Guido's father:

R & G CORPORATE CONSULTANCY INC. N.V. 

http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=13486

So would this mean there are two R Wevers or could this one have two jobs?  The one above sounds like some kind of money laundering or something not quite up to a real corporation.  Like offering to be a front for other companies or something like that.  Odd and very broad reason for business, IMO.

Could be either way.  Did anyone verify which Robert Wever was Guido's father and if they did, I wonder how they were able to do that.

We also thought at one time that his father was political but now I wonder as there may be two Robert Wevers.  Are there at least two of every name on that island?  Except for Croes, Wevers and a few other names of which I am certain there must be a dozen with the same name.




[



http://www.rgcorporateconsultancy.com/index.php

I am sure all those people double dip and do more than one job.  Down there "conflict of interest" does not seem to matter all that much.  He could be in politics and be the chief honcho at a lab, give lectures, and even make X-tacy, meth, and process the horse.  Of course he may not too.
Just seem like a bunch working hard to get out of working honestly.
        jack b

[jackb]

I bet you didn't know there is/was a Freddy Arends that is/was the supervisor of the San Nicolas Section of the Public Health Laboratory.  (Info courtesy of MuminOhio)

Correct,I didn't know that. Whats Freddy doin for work nowadays anyways? Does he still have the hobby of filming underage girls and having sex with them when they are unconscious?

There is also a Deepak and Satish Daryanani in Aruba,
owner of the Aruba Internet Cafe. Also Web Designer of the Lions club. Similar to Kalpoes eh?

Speaking of the Lions Den we heard it was moved to Bonaire after Natalee dissapeared..I wonder if there is a connection with Van Der Straten since he also re-located to Bonaire about the same time?

Steve Croes dad bought the computer place where Depak Kalpoe worked the following August after that May is what I heard and Steve Croes went to work in there.  I really do not know.  Just may be scuttlebutt.  Guess he wanted a job after the Tattoo let him go.  That is one way to get one.  I wonder if Depak still works there?   j/b

[mojo]

"the phone outside the marriott can only be used to make international calls" 
What a memory he has. Why would he know that and remember it and use it as a defense ? Is there only one phone booth outside the Marriott ? Or in the vicinity ? Maybe he called his Mumma ...  she was in the NL

or his dad if he had a dutch cell phone. my husband has several sim cards and phones that he uses when travelling. so even if it is for international calls only, he could have called daddy-o.

[jackb]

I bet you didn't know there is/was a Freddy Arends that is/was the supervisor of the San Nicolas Section of the Public Health Laboratory.  (Info courtesy of MuminOhio)

Correct,I didn't know that. Whats Freddy doin for work nowadays anyways? Does he still have the hobby of filming underage girls and having sex with them when they are unconscious?

There is also a Deepak and Satish Daryanani in Aruba,
owner of the Aruba Internet Cafe. Also Web Designer of the Lions club. Similar to Kalpoes eh?

Speaking of the Lions Den we heard it was moved to Bonaire after Natalee dissapeared..I wonder if there is a connection with Van Der Straten since he also re-located to Bonaire about the same time?

I believe Jan Vanderstratten is as bad or worse than Palus Vandersloot.  Who is he to say he would arrest someone for "slandering" the population when he is about as criminal as anyone could get in more ways than one.  He needs to be behind bars with someone like Matthews.  That piece of gargbage thinks he is a dicataor over a whole country.  THERE IS NO GREATER EVIL IN THE LAND THAN INJUSTICE STANDING BEHIND THE BADGE OF THE LAW (a quote of Thurgood Marshall, I believe)  Jack

[mojo]

"the phone outside the marriott can only be used to make international calls" 
What a memory he has. Why would he know that and remember it and use it as a defense ? Is there only one phone booth outside the Marriott ? Or in the vicinity ? Maybe he called his Mumma ...  she was in the NL

My point exactly why the calculated response in the P&W show, why throw in daury unless at somepoint he knew that info would be checked and would probably clear him. He volunteered the information about daury without thinking twice.whereas in the days before he swore to take it to his grave.

didn't peter say that after he had shown the tapes to mos that mos had said they needed more. (think this came out last week?) so that was when they went for the final "ride" with patrick and when daury's name came into play?

it would be very interesting to see how the dates and info came out. i think joran did figure something was up. there were five rides with taped info regarding what happened with natalee. the question is at what point he became suspicious. personally, i think he's a bit dim, arrogant but dim and that he wouldn't have figured it out til perhaps after the third or even as late as the fourth, but the fifth....well, that may be where he inserted details to cover himself.

[mojo]

I believe Jan Vanderstratten is as bad or worse than Palus Vandersloot.  Who is he to say he would arrest someone for "slandering" the population when he is about as criminal as anyone could get in more ways than one.  He needs to be behind bars with someone like Matthews.  That piece of gargbage thinks he is a dicataor over a whole country.  THERE IS NO GREATER EVIL IN THE LAND THAN INJUSTICE STANDING BEHIND THE BADGE OF THE LAW (a quote of Thurgood Marshall, I believe)  Jack

i would like to think that mos has been sitting on both jacobs and van der stratten after devries and beth and jug's info about the seizure questions....seems to me, this whole thing needs to go straight back to the beginning of this so-called investigation and it starts with those two. 

[Peaches]

Re: Guido

i've NEVER believed that Guido had makeup on because he was gay (according to Spong)

he had that makeup on to try to cover those scratches, IMO


any of you know any 'gays' that wear makeup? 

yes

[Peaches]

"the phone outside the marriott can only be used to make international calls" 
What a memory he has. Why would he know that and remember it and use it as a defense ? Is there only one phone booth outside the Marriott ? Or in the vicinity ? Maybe he called his Mumma ...  she was in the NL

or his dad if he had a dutch cell phone. my husband has several sim cards and phones that he uses when travelling. so even if it is for international calls only, he could have called daddy-o.

Nice catch.  I would not have thought of that as my experience with sim cards is limited to the one I have in my one phone.   I could see if one traveled internationally or even in the continental US that more than one cell phone might come in handy. 

[Observer]

Search crew continues to hold out hope

Sometimes, it is just time to ask for help. Those of us who have devoted the past "almost" three years to finding and returning Natalee Holloway to American soil have reached that time. We need you. We need your help, your hope, your prayers... and yes... we need you to make a donation to allow us to finish the search and bring Natalee home.

Natalee Holloway, a then-recent American High School graduate, traveled to Aruba to celebrate what should have been a wonderful milestone on her way to a fulfilling education and eventual career in medicine. The night before she should have returned home, she instead, disappeared off the face of the earth. Natalee was last seen with an island resident named Joran Van der Sloot who said he didn't know what happened to her. He has since made the horrific admission that he dumped Natalee's seemingly-lifeless body into the cold ocean depths offshore from the beach where he'd taken her.

Kemah businessman, Louis Schafer, has personally spent in excess of a million dollars over the last four months funding a sophisticated, deep sea survey boat, named the Persistence. This aptly named ship, and her wonderful crew, have surveyed the entire 50-square miles area off Aruba. Schafer says, "We have identified at least 60 of the targets. We have about 150 more targets to inspect." Any one of those remaining 150 "targets" could be the remains of our missing American teenager. He went on to say, "We have completely mapped the ocean floor, we know every object that's there, we know every object that could be a container holding her in the sea."

Unfortunately, right now... with the recovery of Natalee within our grasp, the money has run out.

With just 150 objects remaining to be inspected, we are at the brink of finding Natalee or... incredible as it sounds to our hearts... abandoning the effort, coming home empty-handed... and never knowing, never knowing... did we have her right there amongst those targets. Tragically too... not finding Natalee and whatever evidence may be submerged with her... will almost certainly allow the perpetrator of this terrible crime to forever escape the justice deserved.

Texas Equusearch is the non-profit organization. Words can't express how desperately we hope they will hear from you. They can be contacted at: 281-309-9500 (www.texasequusearch.org)

We need you. Can you help?

http://www.meridianstar.com/opinion/local_story_062005533.html

[JE]

Re: Guido

i've NEVER believed that Guido had makeup on because he was gay (according to Spong)

he had that makeup on to try to cover those scratches, IMO


any of you know any 'gays' that wear makeup? 

Koen, Joran, and Guido supposed to have had marks on them.  Who knows they waited for everyone to heal before arresting them.   Also I have the picture of Koen on a plane with his dad and younger brother if anyone wants to see it.  I may have sent it to Klass, I meant to.  Anyway she has the one where Koen is dressed a bit ladylike.   jack b

If spong claimed that guido was gay it may be true. Spong being a homosexual himself should be able to tell

[Bearlyhere]

Think Joran joked to his friends that his mother was "Hitler's sister" when she tried to tell him to behave?

The possibility of Joran saying that instead of Natalee is much more likely. IMO

I think Anita is of German descent. I realize Germany is very close to Holland and so is Belgium and other countries but I have the feeling she was raised by Germans. I may be wrong but that last name is certainly not Dutch.

We heard Jossy say that he heard Joran is staying with a uncle in Germany..I wonder if that is Anita's brother or Paul's?

I agree with you that that statement seems out of character.  It in the very least was taken out of context.  So many of the things that happened in the car seem off to me.  I have not seen one tad of evidence to support Natalee's being a bigot or a loose woman.

Another thing that seems out of character to me is that Natalee was dancing suggestively that last night on Aruba.  I can't see this happening.  During this whole thing I have watched literally hours of this lovely girl dancing.  That is what she loved.  As I watch her dance, it seems to me that she is naive in her movements, not in the furthest stretch of my imagination does it seem that she has the movements of a provocative dancer.  Even if I compare her to others in the group, none of which seem out of line, I can't see anything in her movements that are sexually suggestive or set off an alarm that I could be watching a person who has been sexually abused.

One of the things that attracts me to this family and this case is Natalee herself.  She is everything you could want in a daughter and more.  Beth has been so kind in letting us get to know and love Natalee for who she was and what she was like and believed in.  It seems rather cliche to say she is everyone's daughter but I can understand that statement.

The statement is made because she is the type of person that results from a kind loving home.  Both her parents and her stepparents love her.  Dave has not left the picture as have many children's fathers, who have divorced their mothers.  If there was a how-to manual written, these people would be found between the pages.  I am in no way insinuating that they are perfect, please don't take that away from reading this.

She had good grades, good friends, good health--mentally, physically, and emotionally.  She had a scholarship to college, was persuing a worthwhile profession/career, and was close to her parents.  She had outside interests she enjoyed and was a valuable asset to our society.  I grieve not only for the person she was, the people that are her parents, friends, and family, but also for the world that is worse off for having lost her.  Society is the big loser here and the evil that has taken her away, still remains free in this world.

It has been both a curse and a privilege to watch this case unfold.  A curse because I have never seen such hostility, jealousy, meanness, and discrimination against a girl, her family, and her supporters.  I cannot see the reason for it.  I have witnessed a number of people, hopefully small, reacting to the demise of her character with  glee, unwarranted animosity and hatred.  I cannot imagine how these same people would act towards the family, friends, and advocates of someone who is missing/deceased with even a slightly different character, who through no fault of their own, had been the victim of a heinous crime.

A privilege because I am a member of Scared Monkeys, the product of very giving men and their families.  Their families have given up plenty of time with these men and I appreciate it as do so many others.  They have given us a place to keep this and many other cases active, find out all the latest information, and wade through the misinformation out there.  They have enabled us to find friends, commiserate about the case, share in the joys and grief of each other's lives, etc.  We have also learned about heroes like Tim Miller and his organization,  We have learned the true meaning of Persistence and that it is not just word in the dictionary.  We have seen the magic of Klaas Paws and other monkeys amazingly appear before our eyes.  We receive answers, sometimes almost before the questions or thoughts are out of our mouses.  There is way too much to put in this category, including the bravery and werewithall of Natalee's family, friends, and our fellow monkeys.

I do not have a daughter.  Natalee is the daughter any Mom would be proud to have.  Not only as an offspring, but as a friend as she continues to mature.  Her family was robbed of the fruits of their labor and love.  They will never see her college and med school graduations.  They will never witness her steady relationship that results in marriage, children, and all the perks that go with that.

That is what attracts me to her case, not her physical attributes, but her personhood.

[Bearlyhere]

I don't mean just the mattress or the mattress per se.  I guess what I am asking is if this would be where testing would be conducted for any forensics not sent to NFI in The Netherlands?

Could this be the "magic drawer" into which all the evidence disappeared all along?

But I am sure he would have recused himself and never be involved in anything to do with a case in which his own son was a suspect, right?  I mean we know how sentitive they are to the appearance of conflict of interest and all.

.

.

I thought about this too, Anna.  If not that, he could instruct on how to destroy/taint the evidence at hand before it got to the real lab.

[BettyLynn]

Aruba phone book

http://www.numberway.com/phone-numbers/53/

Sorry, I don't know how to link.

[Rob]

Bearlyhere said ~

During this whole thing I have watched literally hours of this lovely girl dancing.  That is what she loved.  As I watch her dance, it seems to me that she is naive in her movements, not in the furthest stretch of my imagination does it seem that she has the movements of a provocative dancer.

Chris Cuomo ~ "What kind of girl was Natalee?"

Beth ~ "she was a dancer Chris."

[Rob]

Good Morning All,