Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 - 3/5/08

[caesu]

'De Beth die ik was, is er niet meer'

door Jacqueline Steenwijk

Woensdag 5 maart 2008 - De manier waarop Joran van der Sloot op band imiteerde hoe Natalee Holloway lag te schokken in zijn armen, staat in het geheugen van moeder Beth Holloway gegrift. 'Hoe gruwelijk het ook was, het is dankzij dat beeld, dat ik eindelijk rust kan vinden. Natalee is dood.'

"Toen ik dat zag, wist ik dat hij de waarheid vertelde. Je kunt met woorden liegen, maar niet tegelijkertijd met je lichaam. En het maakte één ding duidelijk: Dit had hij al eerder tegen iemand verteld. Waarom vroeg de politie van Aruba anders na 48 uur al aan mij of Natalee aan epilepsie leed?"

http://www.bndestem.nl/algemeen/binnenland/2761893/De-Beth-die-ik-was-is-er-niet-meer.ece

the seizures are also mentioned in this interview with Beth.

[Keepthefaith]

"ja, met joran" ("yes, this is joran and I am guilty")

One day i hope to see Paulus(Chief) helping Joran(Mcmurphy after the labotomy from Ratched)Escaping from the Psych Ward photo displayed on the front page.Bet you could sell some posters.Ohh.That's copywrited.that sucks...Go Klass....

[Anna]

Ditch Posters, help me out here.  I was told early on that the role of Prosecutor is to represent JUSTICE and that the Prosecutor is to remain neutral, neither an advocate for the victim nor the defendant but only justice.

The law itself is supposed to represent the victim.  The suspect has defense attorneys and the Prosecutor interprets if a crime was committed applying the principles of the law in a neutral manner.

This could be why it is so difficult to get a conviction under this system if this is true.

.

[Tamikosmom]

My way of saying Janet is right:)

 

[Anna]

Ditch Posters, help me out here.  I was told early on that the role of Prosecutor is to represent JUSTICE and that the Prosecutor is to remain neutral, neither an advocate for the victim nor the defendant but only justice.

The law itself is supposed to represent the victim.  The suspect has defense attorneys and the Prosecutor interprets if a crime was committed applying the principles of the law in a neutral manner.

This could be why it is so difficult to get a conviction under this system if this is true.

.

Edit Ditch to DUTCH, lol, sorry guys!  Guess who I am thinking about this morning!

[katrien]

 
  "5 maart 2008
 Vanavond in Pauw & Witteman: Bram Moszkowicz, Sanderijn Cels en Jan Pronk".

So Bram Moszkowicz will be present toning at 22.05 (RTL5) in the Jensen show (together with Beth Holloway, Peter R de Vries and Patrick v.d. Eem) and in the Pauw and Witteman show at 23.05 (Ned. 1). 

[klaasend]

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/03/05/natalee-holloway-missing-in-aruba-jvds-caption-contest-this-one-is-a-softball-go-at-it/

Natalee Holloway Missing in Aruba … JVDS Caption Contest: This One is a Softball … Go at It

[caesu]

Ditch Posters, help me out here.  I was told early on that the role of Prosecutor is to represent JUSTICE and that the Prosecutor is to remain neutral, neither an advocate for the victim nor the defendant but only justice.

The law itself is supposed to represent the victim.  The suspect has defense attorneys and the Prosecutor interprets if a crime was committed applying the principles of the law in a neutral manner.

This could be why it is so difficult to get a conviction under this system if this is true.

.

A public prosecutor is in the Netherlands a representative of the Public Prosecution Service (OM)
The OM is responsible for tracing and continuing indictable offences.

The most important roles of the public prosecutor are:
* conduct the authority concerning investigations of the police force
* directly give control at heavy indictable offences to investigations of the police force
* act as public indicter in a lawsuit (criminal law)
* ask for a certain sentence, which is not always imposed by the judge during a lawsuit.

Both the police force and the public prosecutor can apply coercion resources.
Often used coercion resources are for example a body search or detainment at the police station.

The public prosecutor ascertains whether he wants present a matter to a judge or not.
He must also ensure that judgements of the sentence judge are carried out.

The public prosecutor must stick to strict rules in the law. The judge checks if the rules are, however, well applied.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Officier_van_justitie

[BUCKSHOT]

**snippitysnip**

Would somebody please help me out?  When was Joran again declared a suspect?

Thank you.

Janet

After PRDV's confession tapes the case was reopened and Joran was a murdersuspect again.
They are still working very hard behind the scenes, as Peter also confirmed during Jensen's show last Monday.
Peter is very convinced this will go to trial.

They are still working very hard behind the scenes

I bet they are..........................

[EURobert]

Ditch Posters, help me out here.  I was told early on that the role of Prosecutor is to represent JUSTICE and that the Prosecutor is to remain neutral, neither an advocate for the victim nor the defendant but only justice.

The law itself is supposed to represent the victim.  The suspect has defense attorneys and the Prosecutor interprets if a crime was committed applying the principles of the law in a neutral manner.

This could be why it is so difficult to get a conviction under this system if this is true.

.

Edit Ditch to DUTCH, lol, sorry guys!  Guess who I am thinking about this morning!

Hi Anna,

In the Dutch system there are three parties:

First: the judge/judges/court
Next the prosecutor: who is has the police and forensic institute etc. to gather and present the evidence
Third: the defendant and his (team of) lawyer(s)

[Anna]

Another thought I am having today is about things we have found, heard, seen in the news over the last two years and nine months.

I love our archives and they explain why we might think what we think but they do not always represent facts.  They are what that person may or may not have believed at that point in time and are subject to revision, more information coming to light and interpretation.

We know even sworn statements may contain incorrect information.  Just because was written somewhere at some time does not translate into being a fact.  It is just what it is, a statement by someone or something reported by someone at that time.

I say this recalling an interview with a member of ALE very early.  I can't recall where I could find this written down but I suspect that it is or was at one time.

Anyway, he said and I paraphrase:  At first we thought the American media were morons.  They couldn't get anything wrong and then I decided to give him (meaning Geraldo from memory) some false information so as to discredit him.  I thought that then no one would listen to him and he would go away.

We are not accustomed to this tactic in this country and would expect, unless part of a sting operation, LE to either tell the truth or use the no comment option.

That evidently was not always the case in the disappearance of Natalee.  We have to take everything with the proverbial grain of salt and in context of what someone said at the time.

That's why we can't make a timeline or list of known facts.  Becomes subjective almost immediately on to whom does one believe.  Multiple sources, witnesses all saying the same thing are always good but how often do we have that?

Goes back to Natalee seen leaving in the car with the suspects as the only well-established fact.  After that, it is all fuzzy because of even official sources, or what should have been official, giving wrong information.

jmo and something we might want to keep in mind throughout this.



.

[caesu]

Ditch Posters, help me out here.  I was told early on that the role of Prosecutor is to represent JUSTICE and that the Prosecutor is to remain neutral, neither an advocate for the victim nor the defendant but only justice.

The law itself is supposed to represent the victim.  The suspect has defense attorneys and the Prosecutor interprets if a crime was committed applying the principles of the law in a neutral manner.

This could be why it is so difficult to get a conviction under this system if this is true.

.

A public prosecutor is in the Netherlands a representative of the Public Prosecution Service (OM)
The OM is responsible for tracing and continuing prosecuting indictable offences.

The most important roles of the public prosecutor are:
* conduct the authority concerning investigations of the police force
* directly give control at heavy indictable offences to investigations of the police force
* act as public indicter in a lawsuit (criminal law)
* ask for a certain sentence, which is not always imposed by the judge during a lawsuit.

Both the police force and the public prosecutor can apply coercion resources.
Often used coercion resources are for example a body search or detainment at the police station.

The public prosecutor ascertains whether he wants present a matter to a judge or not.
He must also ensure that judgements of the sentence judge are carried out.

The public prosecutor must stick to strict rules in the law. The judge checks if the rules are, however, well applied.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Officier_van_justitie

correction:
'continuing' must be 'prosecuting'

[BUCKSHOT]

Hans Mos was hired to handle the media.
Han Mos was not hired to solve and/or prosecute the case.

Joran VanderSloot has been declared a murder suspect, indefinitely.

They will investigate the crime for the rest of their lives, to no avail.

The case files can never be shared with anyone, because it would compromise the ongoing investigation.

The case will never be strong enough to prosecute.

There will never be enough evidence to re-arrest Joran VanderSloot.

Dennis Jacobs, JanVanderSraaten, PaulusVanderSloot, JudgeWit had a meeting. They re-wrote Aruban law so as to accomodate this case.

THE END !!!!  

[Anna]

But would you say the Prosecutor is an advocate for the victim or a neutral party.

Point of concern, why would the Prosecutor say he would protect Joran from the mob if necessary if he is advocate for the victim only?

This is confusing.  Does he represent justice or does he speak for the victim only under this systyem?

.

[klaasend]

Holloway key players on tv chat show
Wednesday 05 March 2008

A number of key players in the Natalee Holloway disappearance are set to appear on tv chat show Jensen on Wednesday night, broadcasting company RTL5 said.

Dutch lawyer Bram Moszkowicz, tv crime reporter Peter R de Vries, Holloway's mother Beth Twitty and Patrick van der Eem are all booked as guests. Twitty also appeared on Tuesday evening.

According to the Volkskrant, Van der Eem, who befriended suspect Joran van der Sloot and helped secretly record him confessing to his role in Natalee's disappearance, will telephone the Dutch student live on air.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/03/holloway_key_players_on_tv_cha.php

[Peaches]

My way of saying Janet is right:)

You catch on quick, PI.  Janet is very often right and can show you the link to boot!

Janet is a wealth of knowledge and documentation.  I am envious of her organizational skills.  Thank you Janet for keeping all this stuff together for those of us who can't.

[Anna]

Does Joran actually talk to Patrick I wonder or does he just hang up on him?

[Anna]

My way of saying Janet is right:)

You catch on quick, PI.  Janet is very often right and can show you the link to boot!

Janet is a wealth of knowledge and documentation.  I am envious of her organizational skills.  Thank you Janet for keeping all this stuff together for those of us who can't.

Yes, I designate Janet and PITA and vms Official Historians.  I am sure there are some others I have left out but their wealth of archival history is just fantastic.

.

[caesu]

But would you say the Prosecutor is an advocate for the victim or a neutral party.

Point of concern, why would the Prosecutor say he would protect Joran from the mob if necessary if he is advocate for the victim only?

This is confusing.  Does he represent justice or does he speak for the victim only under this systyem?

.

yes, that's shouldn't really be his concern, the security of joran.
only after a mob targets joran he has to prosecute the mob.

the security of joran is more the concern of the minister of the interior who heads the national police imo.

[Tamikosmom]

Hans Mos was hired to handle the media.
Han Mos was not hired to solve and/or prosecute the case.

Joran VanderSloot has been declared a murder suspect, indefinitely.

They will investigate the crime for the rest of their lives, to no avail.

The case files can never be shared with anyone, because it would compromise the ongoing investigation.

The case will never be strong enough to prosecute.

There will never be enough evidence to re-arrest Joran VanderSloot.

Dennis Jacobs, JanVanderSraaten, PaulusVanderSloot, JudgeWit had a meeting. They re-wrote Aruban law so as to accomodate this case.

THE END !!!!  

I agree with everything you said Buckeye except "THE END!!!"  I believe with all my heart that justice will prevail for Natalee Holloway.

Janet

+++++++++++

The best laid plans of mice and men go oft astray.
Robert Burns