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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 - 3/5/08  (Read 299001 times)
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AZLady
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« Reply #60 on: March 03, 2008, 02:23:04 PM »



I have done my homework. Not all that I posted is geared journalistically.  Some things I had written were specifically geared to send a message.  At times, this message was for only a few people.  This post at SM "praising Aruban authorities" was done with contextual purpose. Eveything I write ends up being read by people who are extremely interested and close to the case.  In context, we (the search team) needed to rapidly gain the trust and cooperation of the Aruban authorities.  Before we arrived, here was no trust, little cooperation, and no sharing of information. Take this for what it's worth:  Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  Also, don't make assumptions about what I have or have not read.

Not all that I write is my true feelings but is aimed at true purpose. Not everything is clear or should be taken just at face value.
Ya know, I knew that.  You are one smart cookie.  I've been rereading your posts.  For one so young (and I know that is relative...), your accomplishments are noteworthy.  Thank you for being who you are and giving of yourself to Beth and Dave and their families.
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Bladerunner
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« Reply #61 on: March 03, 2008, 02:26:01 PM »

My comment didn't come though....

I for one think people just need to read your posts VERY CAREFULLY, including this one!!   
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Destiny
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« Reply #62 on: March 03, 2008, 02:26:11 PM »

I like to *think* I pick up stuff pretty quickly. But for the life of me, I still don't understand the problems with posting those pictures. Will someone please inform me?

And since no one knows for sure, I'll accept all the conjecture in the world. TIA

I'm not sure what is in that trap. I do not see anything that rules
Natalee in or out of that trap. What am I missing here?

Rob..I think what we are all missing here...is someone...*anyone*...telling us the truth.

For whatever reason(s)...they feel they can't...or wont...I'm just as stymied as you..
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I Stand With The Girl *NATALEE HOLLOWAY*

Aruba Beware *AN ANGEL LIKE NO OTHER* has fallen amongst you....may you know the fury of HEAVEN!
Rob
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« Reply #63 on: March 03, 2008, 02:27:02 PM »

I like to *think* I pick up stuff pretty quickly. But for the life of me, I still don't understand the problems with posting those pictures. Will someone please inform me?

And since no one knows for sure, I'll accept all the conjecture in the world. TIA

I'm not sure what is in that trap. I do not see anything that rules
Natalee in or out of that trap. What am I missing here?
Rob, I can give you a few guesses off the top of my head, but I don't know for sure.  In academia, of which the scientific community is included, there is a strong belief in integrity of work.  This includes support for the ownership of materials, copyright and other such laws.  Academics carefully and minutely credit the source of their work and related work, ad infinitum.  So, that's the prevailing attitude amongst these folks.  The type of sharing and copying we do on the internet is so foreign to them that I know some who find it shocking.  I think they would have found it shocking that someone took the pictures from a private site and put them in the public domain anonymously.  Especially if the pictures portrayed the remains of a dead person--not Natalee, but any dead person.  I think the request not to repost the pics of Persistence leaving Aruba was a knee jerk reaction to the previous copying of pics. 

Thanks AZ - I think we are thinking on the same lines here.
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #64 on: March 03, 2008, 02:27:29 PM »

I like to *think* I pick up stuff pretty quickly. But for the life of me, I still don't understand the problems with posting those pictures. Will someone please inform me?

And since no one knows for sure, I'll accept all the conjecture in the world. TIA

I'm not sure what is in that trap. I do not see anything that rules
Natalee in or out of that trap. What am I missing here?



I give Tim ... Dave and ... Beth the benefit of the doubt.  They were all speaking the truth ... there was nothing connected to Natalee Holloway in that enormous cage/trap.

I cried when I read Dave Holloways words.

Janet

+++++++++++++


The search for Natalee Holloway
It's the story you haven't heard: the tale of two parents who, even now, willgo anywhere -- and endure anything -- to find answers.

TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008


On Dec. 30, off the coast of Aruba, divers from the Aruban police force and the research vessel Persistence were about to make a crucial dive on a promising target in the search for Natalee Holloway.
 
The researchers had discovered a fish trap about 90 feet below the surface in almost the exact spot search expert Tim Miller had theorized Natalee’s body might be.

Team leader Tim Trahan suited up to join the Aruban police divers. As Tim Miller wished him well, the divers hit the water and the ROV was sent down to capture what would happen for everyone watching on board.

(On the boat) Brandon: We have visual on divers and target.

Slowly the divers worked their way down to the trap. They had been instructed to give a thumbs up or thumbs down.  The atmosphere in the survey room was tense, and nerves were raw as Miller, the Aruban authorities and the crew of the Persistence waited for word of what exactly was in the trap. The divers approached the target and signaled above. And then...

(On the boat) No it's thumbs down. Negative, not it.

Crushing disappointment.

(On the boat) Tim Miller: Divers coming up right now. I don't know it looked as promising today as it did last night or before.

Miller: Nothing?

Trahan: No.

Chris Hansen: That had to be a crushing blow.

Tim Miller: It was a crushing blow.
 
Now Tim Miller had to deliver that same crushing blow to Natalee’s parents.

Chris Hansen: How hard is it for you to dial their numbers and tell them that this in fact is not the break in the case we-- we hoped for?

Tim Miller: Probably one of the hardest calls I ever made. Probably one of the hardest … probably should have never made the first one. But everything looked right at the time.

Natalee’s father was at home in Mississippi when the call came.

Chris Hansen: What was it like for you to, once again, have a setback?

Dave Holloway: That's probably about the time that-- the chest pains intensified to an extreme. I mean, how many times can I take this?

Beth Holloway: You know, it's a disappointment. But, you have to look at the magnitude and the sacrifices being made even to get to that point.

Chris Hansen: You didn't know these folks before this happened. What do they represent to you now?
 
Dave Holloway: They represent heroes to me.
 
To be sure there was no relevant evidence, material from the trap was given to the FBI.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
AZLady
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« Reply #65 on: March 03, 2008, 02:27:54 PM »

btw, I ran into Deepak and Satish outside of Mambo Jambo on Saturday night.  It looked like the bouncers didn't let them in the club. I would have loved to have bought them both a Balashi and had a chat.  No dice.
Those two...out on Saturday night.  Without Joran, they don't get VIP passes to get into clubs.  That's how it works on Aruba.  Yes, I would have liked to have chatted with them, too.  But, I think they are streetwise and would not have talked to the likes of you or me, unless we were handing them cash, of course.  And then we should not believe a word they say.
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NM
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« Reply #66 on: March 03, 2008, 02:28:57 PM »

NM…I believe it may have been one of our new Dutch Monkeys…Flipper or Katrian(sp) and by the way Welcome!…and sorry if it was not!

 I too would like some further clarification on this…

This is Paulus’ alibi for that evening…he had to pick up Sebastian from I believe the Ziola’s house.(Not sure on the spelling on that either, but it is the only name I can recall Paulus mentioning picking him up from)

If they were in the Netherlands, Paulus has no alibi for the time he was ‘not’ in the casino sitting right next to Natalee or for the rest of the night.

I was reading back then and do remember it being confirmed that there was indeed three ditches on the flight to Aruba.

Anna…I saw it, but am supposed to be busy…maybe I should just logout and I’ll get more done…LOL

Thanks MuminOhio!!!!  I picked the wrong new poster.  I think you are right is was Katrian.
We are on the same page and believe the same as many Monkeys.
To me the 2 younger ditches were in nl with avds.  That was the info we got when info was reliable. It only changed to the 2 younger ditches being in aruba when pvds used them as an alibi.  Then a Monkey made some calls and confirmed that 3 ditches flew nl to aruba June 1 ( I think that was the date).

Destiny I just want to say that I admire the way you handled things.

Klaas you are always great in battle .  She "blowed-up real good" (to quote second city t.v.)


Great to see you OC. I hope you had a nice trip home.

Belated THANK YOU TO NYC boycott Monkeys
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Glenda wrote: "aruba's job was not to babysit Beth's daughter. Beth sent her daughter to swim with the sharks, she is responsible for what ever happened to Natalee." = there is no homicide in aruba, only SUICIDE.  Don't go to aruba if you value your life.
Anna
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« Reply #67 on: March 03, 2008, 02:30:54 PM »

btw, I ran into Deepak and Satish outside of Mambo Jambo on Saturday night.  It looked like the bouncers didn't let them in the club. I would have loved to have bought them both a Balashi and had a chat.  No dice.
Those two...out on Saturday night.  Without Joran, they don't get VIP passes to get into clubs.  That's how it works on Aruba.  Yes, I would have liked to have chatted with them, too.  But, I think they are streetwise and would not have talked to the likes of you or me, unless we were handing them cash, of course.  And then we should not believe a word they say.

I'd like to buy them a drink, too, except at Carlos and Charlies.  One from the second bar.  And one from the bottle with the big "X" on it!

 
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Rob
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« Reply #68 on: March 03, 2008, 02:31:05 PM »

I like to *think* I pick up stuff pretty quickly. But for the life of me, I still don't understand the problems with posting those pictures. Will someone please inform me?

And since no one knows for sure, I'll accept all the conjecture in the world. TIA

I'm not sure what is in that trap. I do not see anything that rules
Natalee in or out of that trap. What am I missing here?

Rob..I think what we are all missing here...is someone...*anyone*...telling us the truth.

For whatever reason(s)...they feel they can't...or wont...I'm just as stymied as you..

Hi Des, you know, all I want is the truth. I know there are many others that want that also, no matter what it is. And after three years, I think we should know the truth by now.

And I don't mean taking someone with no connection to the case and making him /  her fit an agenda.

All I want is the truth.

What is the truth?
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AZLady
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« Reply #69 on: March 03, 2008, 02:31:55 PM »

oceanexplorer, were the clubs busy on Saturday night?  Did it look like mostly locals or tourists? 
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Destiny
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« Reply #70 on: March 03, 2008, 02:32:55 PM »

btw, I ran into Deepak and Satish outside of Mambo Jambo on Saturday night.  It looked like the bouncers didn't let them in the club. I would have loved to have bought them both a Balashi and had a chat.  No dice.

Thanks OE!...sounds like those 2 Bros really are joined at the hip...to insure tight lips?
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I Stand With The Girl *NATALEE HOLLOWAY*

Aruba Beware *AN ANGEL LIKE NO OTHER* has fallen amongst you....may you know the fury of HEAVEN!
AZLady
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« Reply #71 on: March 03, 2008, 02:33:21 PM »

Rob, someone with authority (?) needs to focus on Paulus.  That's the key.  He holds the truth.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #72 on: March 03, 2008, 02:34:40 PM »

It would be interstring to know if ALE even asked if the younger Sloots were in school the next day, wouldn't it?  Did they even ask the bus driver if they were on the bus?  Did they ask the teachers?  Of course not!  There were no frosted flakes at the school cafeteria that morning.  Rolling Eyes
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AZLady
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« Reply #73 on: March 03, 2008, 02:35:28 PM »

Now, I really HAVE to get some work done today.  Carry on Monkey friends.  I'll join you later.
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private eye
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« Reply #74 on: March 03, 2008, 02:35:47 PM »

Well, here's certainly some wonderful news.  Bet Carpe can capture it for us, too!



http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3456742/_Moeder_Natalee__te_gast_bij_Jensen__.html?p=1,2
 
Moeder Natalee Holloway te gast bij Jensen

HILVERSUM - Beth Twitty, de moeder van op de Aruba verdwenen tiener Natalee Holloway, is dinsdagavond te gast in het televisieprogramma Jensen!. Voor het eerst na de spraakmakende uitzending van Peter R. de Vries geeft ze op de Nederlandse televisie haar reactie op de bekentenissen van Joran van der Sloot, aldus RTL maandag.

Beth Twitty the mother of missing teenager Natalee Holloway. will be Tuesday as guest in TV show Jensen. For the first time after the show from Peter R. de Vries she gives to  Dutch TV a reaction to the confession from Joran van der Sloot, said RTL monday.


Tegen presentator Robert Jensen vertelt ze over de schadeclaim die ze gaat indien bij Joran van der Sloot wegens de emotionele schade die ze heeft geleden. Ook gaat ze in op de gebeurtenissen nadat de mediagekte losbarstte en de zoektocht naar haar dochter, die op 30 mei 2005 verdween.

She wukk talk to announcer Robert Jensen about the civil lawsuit against Joran van der Sloot, what he has done emotionally to her. Also she will be talking about the media that is following the case and about the search to her daughter, that was missing on May 30, 2005.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Het beste van Windows, nu ook online. Deel jouw wereld met Windows Live. Download nu.



Well!!!  Didn't any of you read my post???  I was very proud of my little find.

 
I am proud of it and appreciate it Good work:)
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Rob
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« Reply #75 on: March 03, 2008, 02:36:00 PM »

Rob, someone with authority (?) needs to focus on Paulus.  That's the key.  He holds the truth.

I agree, Twan Huys* got the truth. And then that was the end of it.
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Truth, Justice and the American Way.

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MumInOhio
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« Reply #76 on: March 03, 2008, 02:39:55 PM »

btw, I ran into Deepak and Satish outside of Mambo Jambo on Saturday night.  It looked like the bouncers didn't let them in the club. I would have loved to have bought them both a Balashi and had a chat.  No dice.

LOl...I don't suppose that Freddy was with them....He is the one I would like for you to buy a drink or two!
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private eye
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« Reply #77 on: March 03, 2008, 02:40:52 PM »

btw, I ran into Deepak and Satish outside of Mambo Jambo on Saturday night.  It looked like the bouncers didn't let them in the club. I would have loved to have bought them both a Balashi and had a chat.  No dice.

Thanks OE!...sounds like those 2 Bros really are joined at the hip...to insure tight lips?

In more ways than one
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oceanexploration
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« Reply #78 on: March 03, 2008, 02:43:02 PM »

OE post excerpt:

"WHAT do you think you are doing?  What do you seriously think you are going to accomplish with the pics?  Don't you even think to consider for a second that we the search team, who found the trap, supervised it's sampling, recorded that video and others... are ensuring the situation is in proper hands and being taken care of appropriately and completely?  "


I think I missed this the first time, I wonder how many other videos they shot that they have "ensured are in proper hands?" 

Also, what else did they find and film?   


[/quote

There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.  Video 1 : 29th Dec - ROV visual inspection of the trap.  (very small clip of this video on Dateline).  Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.
Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them. 

What you all really didn't know (nor Tim Miller when he said his statements to the press, neither Dateline NBC when they broadcasted their lovely special):

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series. 

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.
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Personally, I prefer searching for lost shipwrecks.  They're bigger and don't have living enemies.
SEARCH FOR NATALEE BLOG:
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/
oceanexploration
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« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2008, 02:47:47 PM »

There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.  Video 1 : 29th Dec - ROV visual inspection of the trap.  (very small clip of this video on Dateline).  Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.
Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them. 

What you all really didn't know (nor Tim Miller when he said his statements to the press, neither Dateline NBC when they broadcasted their lovely special):

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series. 

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.
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Personally, I prefer searching for lost shipwrecks.  They're bigger and don't have living enemies.
SEARCH FOR NATALEE BLOG:
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/
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