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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #740 3/5 - 3/7/08  (Read 313037 times)
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Dayhiker
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« Reply #140 on: March 05, 2008, 10:51:16 PM »


Thanks again Jo-An for your update. GOOD TO SEE BRAM TRASHING THE POS PROSECUTOR!!! Can Peter be far behind with an investigation of the whole sordid bunch? I am sure Beth has much to tell them both.

Many thanks!  I so hope Bram can file the civil suit. Get Joran off the streets!!  I'm not a lawyer but I hope he will be able to delve into all of these missing statements, evidence, etc.  Where the hell is Joran's statement from May 31 '05? Was it actually Paulus making 2 ATM w/d  in the wee hours or was it Joran using daddy's card?  My questions are endless, I'll try not to drive you all nuts.  As for the shoes, why can't Joran answer this simple question?
Even in his Greta interview he made such a point about his KSwiss sneakers, "yes Greta these are the same ones.  Well not the exact same ones that are missing, but they look exactly like these ones..." something to that effect.     

Someone else here posted on an earlier thread, may have been Destiny or *******, so sorry I don't recall, about "Thou dost protest too much...."  Anybody help me here?  I thought that line of thinking was really interesting and made sense.  I agree, Joran had sex (raped) Natalee without a condom and he & Paulus had to get rid of the body.  Also, I do believe Beth that Natalee was a virgin and Joran realized that during the rape. So imagine evidence - Paulus being an attorney of course would say "What have you done?!" 

Forgive me for being graphic, but I'd like to peel the skin of his face too...
Joran raped a virgin & possibly K2 raped her as well
Natalee's blood w/ Joran's semem, vomit w/ GHB & Joran's semen, her DNA all over K2 car (Liquid Ecstasy is often cut w/ herion, which makes the person vomit while slipping in and out of consciousness & GHB causes victim to black out)
Natalee has seizures, overdosing, blacked out, or went into a coma. Paulus researching affects of drugs & alcohol. 
Joran DNA, his semem inside of her and on her person.  Even if they find my semen in her = rape w/ no condom
Joran said in the Dutch version of Devries tape, to Beth & Greta, to Jug & friends on that first night, in his June 24th statement [even here he decribes the same sexual acts in details about another girl & also that 12 year old girl] and Joran and Anita describe in detail her underwear and what Joran did sexuallly with Natalee, etc....(Sorry guys this makes me cringe to even write this.) "I fingered her, I wanted her to give me a blow job, I french kissed her, I f**cked her, I'll just f**ck her.... "
Natalee DNA under Joran's fingernails, on him, his clothes, on & in his shoes....
Natalee fought back, I have to believe that, bit him, scratched, hit him and Joran assaulted her to make her stop.  JK2 put too much emphasis on "her hitting her head..."
Natalee in coma or died or murder
All that evidence would get Joran 15 years to say the least. Obviously there was zero proof of consensual sex.   If all or any of the above is not motivation for Paulus & Joran to get rid of the body, "the body of evidence" then what is?
No body, no crime
I believe Beth, Natalee was at VDS home. 
Paulus w/ help of Van der Stratten buried the body and moved the body more than once.  VDS home, then landfill, then??? Pond?  or Ocean? 
Perhaps some evidence was thrown in the pond, just like Joran did with his dead dog. 
And some thrown in the ocean.
Find body, solve crime.
Solve numerous criminal acts.

Again sorry guys!! but I really want to see the POS behind bars forever along with Paulus who the locals refer to as a "womanizer & gambler".  Like father like son.  Joran is a sociopath to say the least.

With the Aruba follow up piece back on tomorrow, I am curious to know what Patrick said about the pond and review again what CAPS said in his summary. Any news from OE about the scan they did of the pond? 


j4n!!!



Hello Suisse and a belated welcome to Monkeyland. I am delighted to see you are well read on those missing statements of Joran's because they are one of the major keys to exposing the corruption.

I'm no expert on Dutch law and we have been told so many lies about it that I doubt I ever will be but from what I understand Bram is a hell of a good lawyer and would know how to demand all the case files.

Getting those files will open up a big old can of whupass on the Aruban officials involved in the corruption. I hope Bram pursues it and I also hopes he gets every dime the Van der Sloots have left. I am surprised they aren't bankrupt by now but assume the Mafia has been paying their legal bills since they have the best Mafia lawyer in the US working for them. Maybe Bram can find that out as discovery in the civil suit.
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sb
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« Reply #141 on: March 05, 2008, 10:59:05 PM »

I have an impression that Astrid Van Rijn is somewhat educated (owns a business, etc.) SandraK strikes me as having crawled out from under a rock, just yesterday. I find it hard to believe that SandraK is really Lorenzo's mother unless she seriously "dumbs down" her Internet posting style.

I think Beth SHOULD take a shot at a Dutch-originated civil suit against Joran and VDS family. From what limited info I have heard, the burden of proof is even less for a civil suit in Holland than in the US, and certainly the higher burden of proof here still nailed orenthal. If the Fix truly is in from On High, the suit will fail, of course, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Natalee's family/friends still need our prayers.
BUCKSHOT
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« Reply #142 on: March 05, 2008, 11:03:06 PM »

We need to get this right:

No matter what Mos says Joran is no longer a suspect.

Joran was released as a suspect in December and can not be watched, listened to, or surveiled.

Until Joran is rearrested under suspision of a crime, he can not legally be a suspect.

Joran can not be rearrested until physical evidence or a verifiable witness can be found.

Joran is free of judicial suspision and is in no way a legal suspect.

Joran has not been charged with a crime and there is not and may never be a trial date.

The only effect on Joran is that he is a "persona non grata"


I dont agree with it but thats how it is, under their system.

The prosecution could have a video tape, made by Freddy and timestamped, with Joran raping and murdering Natalee, given to them and still could not, nor would not, prosecute this case like it would be in any other civilized country in the world.
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BUCKSHOT
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« Reply #143 on: March 05, 2008, 11:10:42 PM »

Early in the case Tito Lacle a reporter said during his interview with Greta that his sources tell him that authorities are looking for a shoe that Joran lost, possibly in the pond area, and that Joran tried to buy another one to match the shoe he lost. Greta commented that it would have been difficult for Joran to walk home the night of Natalee's disappearance with only one shoe

According to police, he would have hopped home like a bunny in the night, rushing home to take his final exams, but he just couldn't resist a little 'good night' porn with Daury over cookies and warm milk. 
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BUCKSHOT
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« Reply #144 on: March 05, 2008, 11:14:02 PM »

Didn't someone claim Yoran passed their house covered in mud from waist down in the wee hours of the morning?Shoe stuck in the mud?

This is the second time I have heard this story, for lack of a better word.

Wonder if there is any validity to it... It would not be out of the question.

Maybe he was searching for red herrings; they only seem to come out late at night.
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Ono
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« Reply #145 on: March 05, 2008, 11:17:10 PM »

Robert Jensen Show with Beth Holloway - Peter R de Vries - Patrick van der Eem - Bram Moszkowicz - Part 2

-Joran texted Patrick even after the confession tapes, Joran texted: "you're even sicker than I am"
-Patrick still has 126 text-messages left on his cell that Joran sent him, about 10 of them after the PRDV-show
-Patrick gives Robert his cellphone, Robert shows one of the messages, it was about drugs
-Robert asks, "can I call Joran?"
-Robert calls Joran, Joran answers but that's all he says, Patrick says Joran usually doesn't answer the phone, lets it go to voicemail
-Patrick doesn't know where Joran is, is not even interested in knowing where he is
-Robert applauding Beth for staying strong throughout this whole time
-enter Peter
-Beth is saying that she always felt that Peter had to be the one that could help her, and he did
-Robert asks what Peter thinks is the most important thing in the tapes: Peter says it's when Joran imitates Natalee's shaking, he did that more than once, in more than one recording,
Peter says that that was really real, that was not a lie
-Peter says Patrick's past is not important at all, what's important is what Joran said
-enter Bram
-Bram is here to talk to Beth after the show, he will be back on the show next week
-Patrick calls Beth a supermom

So no new info, no new developments.


Thanks to all for all the updates! 
All of those guys are heros;   I was so impressed with how kind Mr. Jensen was to Beth during Part One..... Thanks to all who are posting these.  Appreciate it.
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« Reply #146 on: March 05, 2008, 11:19:19 PM »



The date on wich they found the shoe and when they searched for it interests me beacuse he always as far as i know stuck to the leaving shoes on the beach story. What would be the point if the police had one of the shoes in their posession. Also in his june 9th statement he doesn t really know if he wore white shoes or creme coloured boots. Then on june 14th he has a brain wave (must have hurt) and says he wore kswiss white and blue coloured size 14 and bought in the USA. I d really like to know where the police found the shoe and when.
=====================================================================

They found the shoe the day they had the search warrant to search the vd/Sloot
residence and only searched Joran's quarters.
[/quote]

If they found a shoe, it surely had chocolate on it. Jacobs probably could tell visually, as opposed to employing forensic testing. After he deemed it to be chocolate, he licked it clean.
There must be a chocolate factory on the island. Everything is always covered in chocolate.

Does Willy Wonka live on the island somewhere ???  
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wreck
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« Reply #147 on: March 05, 2008, 11:21:59 PM »

Early in the case Tito Lacle a reporter said during his interview with Greta that his sources tell him that authorities are looking for a shoe that Joran lost, possibly in the pond area, and that Joran tried to buy another one to match the shoe he lost. Greta commented that it would have been difficult for Joran to walk home the night of Natalee's disappearance with only one shoe

According to police, he would have hopped home like a bunny in the night, rushing home to take his final exams, but he just couldn't resist a little 'good night' porn with Daury over cookies and warm milk. 
I remember this vividly -- only a complete moron would go to the store and try to buy "ONE" shoe! 
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Ono
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« Reply #148 on: March 05, 2008, 11:24:55 PM »

Thanks caesu, Jo-An, and JE. Hope I didn't miss anyone.

Thanks again from me too!!!!
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« Reply #149 on: March 05, 2008, 11:27:08 PM »

Thanks caesu, Jo-An, and JE. Hope I didn't miss anyone.

rob i didn't contribute to the translations i was busy with shoes LOL
all credit goes to Ceasu and Jo-An

LOL!
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« Reply #150 on: March 05, 2008, 11:30:26 PM »

We saw how Mos promised the poor pimps he would release them as suspects by December 31st because it wasn't fair to be a suspect so long which he did. Well what about the victims,is it fair to be a victim for almost 3 years and not be told anything? Whats the big deal,since all the Suspects,Spokespeople and ATA have looked through the files? Are they still protecting the Van Der Sloots privacy like they did searching there property? Is that only there business that they raped and murdered the Holloways Daughter? What about his promise to JQK that he would be able to look at the Dossier? Mos said he has 24 Detectives on the case right now,What the hell are they doing? What have they investigated the last month? What did the 40 Detectives do in Nov/Dec 07?

This Island needs to be boycotted in the worst way since they have no intention on releasing the truth or prosecuting anyone. It's not just Joran Van Der Sloot who needs to be sued for every single cent he could earn in the next 70 years off of Natalee,but Aruba for what they did to this tourist and her Family.
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"I lied and thats the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot
Ono
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« Reply #151 on: March 05, 2008, 11:33:36 PM »

Going on about the shoes (srry all) Lets assume he lost a shoe during whatever activity. Would he be so stupid as to take the one he has left, including the eventual forensic traces, home and put it in a closet for the police to find??


Very stupid and that doesn't make sense either,his father would have made sure those shoes were nowhere near that house...Everyone knows you can't buy just one shoe! Which leads me to the next question..Why would Freddy feel obligated or volunteer to buy him a new pair of shoes?

Good question. 
The entire shoe thing has been a puzzlement from Day One.  I keep asking myself :  How does Joran benefit from his various shoe stories?  1] They must have some evidence on them.   The rest is a misty cloud of "what ifs" !  I still say a large boned kid like that wears a very large shoe.
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« Reply #152 on: March 05, 2008, 11:33:51 PM »

We saw how Mos promised the poor pimps he would release them as suspects by December 31st because it wasn't fair to be a suspect so long which he did. Well what about the victims,is it fair they have had to wait 34 Months and haven't been told anything? Whats the big deal,since all the Suspects,Spokespeople and ATA have looked through the files? Are they still protecting the Van Der Sloots privacy like they did searching there property? Is that only there business that they raped and murdered the Holloways Daughter? What about his promise to JQK that he would be able to look at the Dossier? Mos said he has 24 Detectives on the case right now,What the hell are they doing? What have they investigated the last month? What did the 40 Detectives do in Nov/Dec 07?

This Island needs to be boycotted in the worst way since they have no intention on releasing the truth or prosecuting anyone. It's not just Joran Van Der Sloot who needs to be sued for every single cent he could earn in the next 70 years off of Natalee,but Aruba for what they did to this tourist and her Family.
All I Can Say is "DITTO"!
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In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
Ono
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« Reply #153 on: March 05, 2008, 11:38:47 PM »

Thanks Jo-An..It is much Appreciated!

Bram sounds like da Man! All we need now is a Hero to step up in that Dutch Govt! 

Go Bram!!
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« Reply #154 on: March 05, 2008, 11:38:57 PM »

They didn't have enough evidence without the confession tapes, and now even with the confession tapes they don't have enough evidence, Bram says that is simply unbelievable

correction that has to be did

Thanks ciskebab...

you know, the Sloots want Natalee on that beach for a reason and if she is ever found there will be some 'new' reason why Joran is not guilty.

I agree with Bram ~ unbelievable.

I wonder if they thought to link the homeless, chollars, drug runners, or fishermen to the disappearance?

It would be a simple thing to do.  However, some fishermen stepped forward to indicate they did not see J2K or Natalee on the beach.

I wonder just what their PVs, witness statements, or testimony before the judge stated?  What did they see that morning?  Who did they see on the beach?  Perhaps their were others that did not see J2K?

Were the fishermen together as a group (2 or 3)?  Or, did one person step forward and implicate others that morning? 

Is it the statement of a group?  Is it two or three statements of individuals, each with a different perspective? 

Who are the fishermen?  Are they still on the island?  Still alive?

My other question, what did J2K argue about before the judge, as told by Dompig?

I thought it was said they argued when confronted by each other during interrogations.
Meaning, the three of them sat in front of an interrogator who had been told differing stories.

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Ono
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« Reply #155 on: March 05, 2008, 11:41:03 PM »


******* do you know the date when they were looking for it and where they found the bloody/muddy shoe?
In the beginning of the case they were looking for one shoe only. They had another shoe with mud or blood on it,I forget which one it was. However when they did the pond search  in July,Dompig announced to everyone it was a pair of shoes they were looking for,so I did a double take and many others did at RWV as well. We never heard anything from the initial reports until the search at the Pond.

Somewhere deep in the archives you will see the initial reports of looking for one shoe,I am positive of that! They were trying to find the missing shoe is what we were told in the beginning.

This period on Aruba is known as the summer of "The Great Shoe Scare".  All shoes were suspect, none stepped forward.

 ::MonkeyCool::LOL!
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wreck
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« Reply #156 on: March 05, 2008, 11:41:29 PM »

Going on about the shoes (srry all) Lets assume he lost a shoe during whatever activity. Would he be so stupid as to take the one he has left, including the eventual forensic traces, home and put it in a closet for the police to find??


Very stupid and that doesn't make sense either,his father would have made sure those shoes were nowhere near that house...Everyone knows you can't buy just one shoe! Which leads me to the next question..Why would Freddy feel obligated or volunteer to buy him a new pair of shoes?

Good question. 
The entire shoe thing has been a puzzlement from Day One.  I keep asking myself :  How does Joran benefit from his various shoe stories?  1] They must have some evidence on them.   The rest is a misty cloud of "what ifs" !  I still say a large boned kid like that wears a very large shoe.
...depends on your definition of "big boned" ---- I'm doubting his masculinity. 
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hotping
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« Reply #157 on: March 05, 2008, 11:45:25 PM »

Going on about the shoes (srry all) Lets assume he lost a shoe during whatever activity. Would he be so stupid as to take the one he has left, including the eventual forensic traces, home and put it in a closet for the police to find??


Very stupid and that doesn't make sense either,his father would have made sure those shoes were nowhere near that house...Everyone knows you can't buy just one shoe! Which leads me to the next question..Why would Freddy feel obligated or volunteer to buy him a new pair of shoes?

Good question. 
The entire shoe thing has been a puzzlement from Day One.  I keep asking myself :  How does Joran benefit from his various shoe stories?  1] They must have some evidence on them.   The rest is a misty cloud of "what ifs" !  I still say a large boned kid like that wears a very large shoe.
...depends on your definition of "big boned" ---- I'm doubting his masculinity. 
LMAO! 
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In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
BUCKSHOT
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« Reply #158 on: March 05, 2008, 11:47:51 PM »



"The work of the Two Detectives(Castillo and Young) should be looked into seriously"..Dept of Justice Minister Rudy Croes..


roflmfao, rudy has elevated the status of the psycho psychics to detective?  why does that not surprise me at all.  sounds like he inhaled some of his tooth powder this morning before going to work.
dennisintn

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Finbar
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« Reply #159 on: March 05, 2008, 11:49:44 PM »

Yea, yea.

I read where the headmaster of his school mentioned that he said NH hit her head swimming and drowned.

I think it was World Journier's posts.


CAPS, do you own a cat?


I must feed the credit cards.

Fin

Is that Shango for "I'm going to order Chinese tonight?"

Peaches,

Kinda, sorta, not really. That is Finbar for I have to go to work to feed the credit cards before Visa sends a hit man looking for me.

But a poo poo platter sounds kinda interesting.

Fin
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