Natalee Case Discussion #740 3/5 - 3/7/08

[Rob]

"joran gave patrick 2000 euro.
so patrick wouldn't say the name of the person how dumped her in the ocean.
patrick knows the name of this person."

http://www.nu.nl/news/1467475/10/Van_der_Eem_beweert_Joran_al_jaren_te_kennen.html

ohhhh...

I hope Patrick makes that name known instantly so it can be investigated. And why the heck is he sitting there next to Beth and holding that info from her...

I better shut up about Patrick

[JE]

What about the 2,000 euros, what does that mean?

the way i understood it: joran asked patrick for 2000 euros to give to the guy who helped him dump the body
Buying silence

Greetings JE. Raises the question as to whether Patrick paid the actual dumper or Joran was trying to bilk him.

Hey dayhiker i am wondering where de Telegraaf got this info from it is not in the transcript This gets weirder all the time

[Dayhiker]

translation - Joran is shaking Patrick down for 2000 euros. The only motivation the "person" who threw Natalee into the ocean needs to to keep quiet so he doesn't get charged with murder.

After 3 years, I doubt that person is all of a sudden shaking Joran down for 2000 euros. That makes no sense, but Joran never does either....

Interesting also is that 2000 euros ain't really that much money considering the extreme explosiveness of Natalee's case.

[BUCKSHOT]

Remember that Hans Mos and Aruba has had a chance to poison talk to Patrick about everything.

[Bladerunner]

"joran gave patrick 2000 euro.
so patrick wouldn't say the name of the person how dumped her in the ocean.
patrick knows the name of this person."

http://www.nu.nl/news/1467475/10/Van_der_Eem_beweert_Joran_al_jaren_te_kennen.html

So now it's Joran paying Patrick? 

Again, that makes no sense at all. What the hell is he going to do with a measley 2000 euro!

[caesu]

"joran gave patrick 2000 euro.
so patrick wouldn't say the name of the person how dumped her in the ocean.
patrick knows the name of this person."

http://www.nu.nl/news/1467475/10/Van_der_Eem_beweert_Joran_al_jaren_te_kennen.html

that's what it is says there.
so confusing now. but this news just broke few hours ago.

i am going to give it a rest and wait for peter r. response.

So now it's Joran paying Patrick? 

[BUCKSHOT]

This case just can not get any stranger.......Or can it??

[Dayhiker]

Greetings JE. Raises the question as to whether Patrick paid the actual dumper or Joran was trying to bilk him.

Hey dayhiker i am wondering where de Telegraaf got this info from it is not in the transcript This gets weirder all the time

Like a Monty Python movie, lol! Thank you all for getting us the information so fast even if it is quite jumbled right now!

[Tamikosmom]

I have been doing a little scholarly research you could say and came across this very insightful journal article. I don't know if many of you have read this or seen it before but I present it here in its entirety:


Title: A Media Circus in Paradise. By: Wolfson, Hannah, American Journalism Review, 10678654, Aug/Sep2005, Vol. 27, Issue 4
Database: Communication & Mass Media CompleteA Media Circus in Paradise
Contents
The Distressed Treatment
Section: DROP CAP
LETTER FROM ARUBA

An Alabama reporter discovers the press doesn't quite shine in the Caribbean sun

It's the first news conference, and the police superintendent can't find the keys. But no one's told TV. One by one, the camera crews push closer, reporters from CNN and Fox News squeezing onto the narrow sidewalk between a line of parked cars and the locked door of the police annex. Jan van der Straaten, the man in charge of Aruba's investigation into Natalee Holloway's disappearance, is stuck, and soon he's sweating in the Caribbean sun.

A few locals slow down as they drive by to see what's happening while uniformed officers smirk outside the main police station across the street. Finally the door opens and everyone tumbles inside, following van der Straaten up a narrow stairway.

Welcome to the media circus, Aruba style.

OK, I'm just a novice, a print reporter from Alabama covering what started out as a hometown story about a missing teen and mushroomed into nonstop national news. Maybe the crews that converge on events like the Michael Jackson trial and the Runaway Bride are always like this. Maybe it was just the bright tropical light and the strangeness of working in paradise that made things look so absurd. All I know is, after nine days in Aruba, I see what we in the media do--and I say we with great trepidation--in a whole new light.

In fact, looking at it from the Arubans' perspective, I'm a little confused about what we do. Most of the job seems to consist of waiting around in hotel lobbies and seeing who can shout the loudest at news conferences.

There were certainly plenty of us crammed into those daily sessions in the peaked attic room of the police annex. There were a handful of local teams from Birmingham and international crews shipped from Latin America. Then came the bookers and the producers, vying for exclusives with the cloistered mother. Then the shows with dramatic theme music, in crews as large as five. And of course, the Aruban print and radio reporters, who quickly became everyone's favorite sources of speculation.

In the early days, there was plenty to cover. The Royal Dutch Marines searched the beaches while helicopters scanned overhead. Hundreds of locals were herded onto tour buses to help with the hunt. Sources were willing to talk, suspects were arrested, and officials gave tempting hints like, "Hold your breath for 24 hours." The networks sent their satellites and set them up on the roofs of hotels, settling in for the long haul.

Then things started to get weird.

First, CNN ran a report on the island's crack dens and prostitution. Local tourism authorities were outraged. So were a couple of the local reporters, who accused the American press of sabotaging Aruba's economy. By the end of week two, it seemed half of each news conference was dedicated to berating the American press. Even the family's PR agent, who originally represented the tourism authority, was accused of a conflict of interest.

We Americans didn't do ourselves proud, either. Fed up with officials' choice to conduct the first half of each news conference in Papiamento, the local language, some crews took to shouting "English, English!" during the Q-and-A.

Along with Papiamento, Arubans speak English, Spanish and Dutch, but their legal system caused tricky translations. When the first two suspects were arrested (they were later released), the chief prosecutor said they'd been charged with a range of crimes, including murder. A day later, we found ourselves redefining the meaning of "charged" to say first "formally accused" and later "suspected." It turns out they can hold suspects for months without charging them. On July 1, more than a month after Holloway disappeared, the Associated Press had to clarify a story in which the same prosecutor was again quoted as saying three suspects had been charged.

Some of the mistakes were harder to explain. Late one Friday night, CNN reported that at least one of the suspects had confessed. AP quickly followed with a report that he was leading police to the evidence. Moments later, a half dozen news crews sped down a pitch-dark dirt road toward an abandoned beach where police were supposedly digging up a body. Nothing. Officials ranging from the original source right up to the prime minister quickly denied the initial reports.

As guiltily competitive as the rest, I crept out later that night with a Birmingham television crew that was filming distant, spotty footage of men digging in the dunes--probably just local bootleggers pulling up their stash of booze.

Theories abound as to why the media became obsessed with Natalee Holloway's story. It involved a beautiful, blond honor student with influential parents; it occurred in an exotic locale; it started while the jury was out on Jacko. Granted, much of the interest back home stemmed from honest concern about a family's loss. Natalee's mother, Beth Twitty, insisted her daughter represented something perfect and innocent that was lost, a fear that touches the heart of any parent. The outpourings of support in Natalee's hometown and on the island were real, even if they were on camera.

But it also seems the sheer lack of information also spurred the story, because it left plenty of room for speculation, especially as the case progressed. (Aruban officials said releasing details of the investigation could cause a judge to throw out their case.) Natalee had been sold into white slavery, the blogs said. Natalee had run away on a previous trip abroad, Aruban radio countered. Fellow graduates who were on the trip refused to talk: conspiracy! The lead suspect's dad is a judge: conspiracy! My favorite theory came from Aruban reporters who thought police staged the false leak about a confession to discredit American news sources.

Back home in the newsroom, I continued reporting the story by phone as my Aruba tan faded, trying to confirm information as it flashed on TV. Again and again, I heard sources on the other end sigh and say, "No, that's not right." I watched the same television personality who "broke" the news about bloodstains in a suspect's car--which turned out not to be bloodstains--criticize authorities for taking Holloway's family on an emotional rollercoaster. But who's really driving?

The Distressed Treatment
"A damsel must be white. This requirement is nonnegotiable. It helps if her frame is of dimensions that breathless cable television reporters can credibly describe as 'petite.'… She must be attractive--also nonnegotiable. Her economic status should be middle class or higher, but an exception can be made in the case of wartime (see: [Jessica] Lynch).

"Put all this together, and you get 24-7 coverage."

--Washington Post columnist Eugene
Robinson, writing on the media's
and the nation's obsession with
white damsels in distress

PHOTO (COLOR): One tiny piece of the media circus: A U.S. television news crew interviews Beth Twitty (center), mother of missing teen Natalee Holloway, in Oranjestad, Aruba. (In the background on this page is a poster released by the Holloway family.)

~~~~~~~~

By Hannah Wolfson


Wolfson covers the city of Mountain Brook, Alabama, Holloway's hometown, for the Birmingham News.

Thanks Blade

When I compare your post (above) and *******'s post (below) ... a picture emerges that implies that Joran or ... whoever confessed on June 10, 2005 ... knew where Natalee's remains had been originally buried but ... was unaware that she had been moved.

Janet

++++++++++++

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360847;topicseen#msg360847

*******:

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #755 on: March 04, 2008, 10:33:01 PM »

I just posted this recently but I want to make sure we have this all in the same place.

More on white truck....from Fox's At Large Show - Sunday July 31st, 2005

Jossy states......

The latest information we have in the investigation is that the police are actively looking for a K-Swiss style shoe - size 14 that belongs to Joran van der Sloot.  Now the police have information that he lost either one or both of his shoes that early morning in which Natalee disappeared. That would be the 30th of May.

The witness by the landfill tells us that he was sitting in his car and he saw a white pick-up truck drive in, their were 3 occupants and 2 of them got out. Picked up a trash can plastic bag, the black ones, the big ones and they carried it over to where this whole bunch of other bags and rubble was. Now when they were doing that, he says that some blond hair fell out of the bag because the bag was not properly sealed and that he could see parts of human body and then he saw them dig a little among the rubble that was there already and then place this bag there then covered with some other near by lying bags and then put a small pool, plastic pool that babies swim in or bathe in on top of it and then put some more stuff and then walked away.  He also told us that there was another car outside of the cyclone fence, looking on. The man in that car stepped out, he stood by the fence and looked at the whole proceeding's.  We do believe him because from the beginning he has been reliable with his story and it does fit the description we got from another witness between the Holiday Inn and the Marriott Hotel.

The letter that we received is from the wife of the person with whom this guy was on the beach with between the Holiday Inn and Marriott wrote us because she was getting a annoyed that no one was paying attention to the declaration that this man gave to her husband at the hotel.

I will read it for you... The day after Natalee was missing a person called Barbeshe (Bar-Be-she) told a story that the night before he saw 3 people in front of the Holiday Inn with a girl's body. That they tried to take a towel from one the "walks fence's" (really hard to understand him here - sounds like he says "water sports dance or fence") to wrap the body and they could not get it down. Then one of them went to the garbage cans at the Holiday Inn and pulled the bags out and wrapped the body, then put her in the white pick-up and left. They went out and turned left towards the lighthouse and turned off on a dirt road and dug a hole and put her in it and threw out the shovel. He also said he told the police and they sent him on a 4 wheeler to try and find, locate the spot and he had been threatened by these people. This person has been seen on the beach everyday has no longer been seen after this and was known to be there daily.

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/fyi.html

[Bladerunner]

"joran gave patrick 2000 euro.
so patrick wouldn't say the name of the person how dumped her in the ocean.
patrick knows the name of this person."

http://www.nu.nl/news/1467475/10/Van_der_Eem_beweert_Joran_al_jaren_te_kennen.html

ohhhh...

I hope Patrick makes that name known instantly so it can be investigated. And why the heck is he sitting there next to Beth and holding that info from her...

I better shut up about Patrick

Unless he was going to bribe the Van der Sloots to become a "millionaire."

[Dayhiker]

"joran gave patrick 2000 euro.
so patrick wouldn't say the name of the person how dumped her in the ocean.
patrick knows the name of this person."

http://www.nu.nl/news/1467475/10/Van_der_Eem_beweert_Joran_al_jaren_te_kennen.html

So now it's Joran paying Patrick? 

Again, that makes no sense at all. What the hell is he going to do with a measley 2000 euro!

That has stood out to me BR, such a small amount of money.

[Destiny]

Going on about the shoes (srry all) Lets assume he lost a shoe during whatever activity. Would he be so stupid as to take the one he has left, including the eventual forensic traces, home and put it in a closet for the police to find??

Very stupid and that doesn't make sense either,his father would have made sure those shoes were nowhere near that house...Everyone knows you can't buy just one shoe! Which leads me to the next question..Why would Freddy feel obligated or volunteer to buy him a new pair of shoes?

Good question. 
The entire shoe thing has been a puzzlement from Day One.  I keep asking myself :  How does Joran benefit from his various shoe stories?  1] They must have some evidence on them.   The rest is a misty cloud of "what ifs" !  I still say a large boned kid like that wears a very large shoe.

Paulus the Pervus looks like a pretty good sized man...wonder what size shoe he wears....Daurey and Urine like to *swing* in the same circles...wonder of Pervus had a pair of size 14 Kswiss tennies...

[Rob]

"joran gave patrick 2000 euro.
so patrick wouldn't say the name of the person how dumped her in the ocean.
patrick knows the name of this person."

http://www.nu.nl/news/1467475/10/Van_der_Eem_beweert_Joran_al_jaren_te_kennen.html

ohhhh...

I hope Patrick makes that name known instantly so it can be investigated. And why the heck is he sitting there next to Beth and holding that info from her...

I better shut up about Patrick

Unless he was going to bribe the Van der Sloots to become a "millionaire."

We need obi wan kenobi - he's our only hope LOL

[Bladerunner]

"joran gave patrick 2000 euro.
so patrick wouldn't say the name of the person how dumped her in the ocean.
patrick knows the name of this person."

http://www.nu.nl/news/1467475/10/Van_der_Eem_beweert_Joran_al_jaren_te_kennen.html

So now it's Joran paying Patrick? 

Again, that makes no sense at all. What the hell is he going to do with a measley 2000 euro!

That has stood out to me BR, such a small amount of money.

But maybe a lot of money to someone that works at an internet cafe or is not "well off!"

[Bearlyhere]

Dim the Avatars, it's full speed ahead!!!

[Rob]

So, Patrick has known this name for some time and has not disclosed it?

Did he tell Godfather Peter R?

Is the name caught on tape?

[Rob]

So, Patrick has known this name for some time and has not disclosed it?

Did he tell Godfather Peter R?

Is the name caught on tape?

this new 'episode' is just plain nuts.

did Mos threaten Patrick with the "arrest" last week because he knew Patrick knew the name?

[Bearlyhere]

"joran gave patrick 2000 euro.
so patrick wouldn't say the name of the person how dumped her in the ocean.
patrick knows the name of this person."

http://www.nu.nl/news/1467475/10/Van_der_Eem_beweert_Joran_al_jaren_te_kennen.html

ohhhh...

I hope Patrick makes that name known instantly so it can be investigated. And why the heck is he sitting there next to Beth and holding that info from her...

I better shut up about Patrick

Unless he was going to bribe the Van der Sloots to become a "millionaire."

We need obi wan kenobi - he's our only hope LOL

 

[Bladerunner]

So, Patrick has known this name for some time and has not disclosed it?

Did he tell Godfather Peter R?

Is the name caught on tape?

this new 'episode' is just plain nuts.

did Mos threaten Patrick with the "arrest" last week because he knew Patrick knew the name?

Great point, and also remember that Patrick said he can "be quiet also" or something to that effect. One other thing, if Patrick new Joran for a long time that might explain why Joran said he trusts him just like he does "Duary". At the time, people were questioning why if Joran only met Patrick would he become so attached to him to make such a statement. That statement now makes perfect sense, if the relationship goes back years.

[BUCKSHOT]

How do you think Paulus' composure is these days?

(1) Scared, knowing that it may be a matter of time before the game is over...

OR

(2) Calm, cool, and collected knowing that nothing will happen in the end...