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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #740 3/5 - 3/7/08  (Read 313034 times)
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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #580 on: March 06, 2008, 10:50:11 PM »

From Kyle:

This is a picture taken right next to the fisherman's hut that was allegedly broken into.  The picture shows the cut-away spot in the brush where we believe the trap was stored.  There are branches cut off and rub marks on other branches indicating a trap of at least 6-7' wide may have been in the spot.  The cut-away was symmetrical.   The trap we found was too large to fit inside the fish hut door (see attached picture of the fish hut door that was replaced after the break-in).






The trap is drawn in here to give you an idea.



no one ever said the trap was inside the huts

from hodges site:

 The fisherman also noticed that a large fishing cage stored behind the first of the three Fisherman's Huts at the southern-most corner was missing. The cage had been there approximately a month since about Good Friday, March 25, 2005. The cage belonged to another fisherman who kept his boat next to these four huts. The boat was still there. But the cage was missing.

The fisherman described the cage as made of 3/8-inch iron (such as that used in concrete reinforcing—"rebar") with a frame size approximately 5 ˝ feet by 4 feet by 17 inches. He described it as a large fishing cage with its frame wrapped in chicken wire with its familiar hexagonal openings but with an opening in one panel which allowed them to trap fish. He believed that, given its size and weight, it would take two men to manage the cage. Once aboard, it would lay low on the floor of the nearby fishing boat.

JE, OE was here when the cage was being discussed on 3/1.  The opinion of one or more monkeys was that the cage that was taken was inside the fisherman's huts.  I remember because I posted a portion from the Hodges site in response.  I don't know if that was the purpose of his posting the pictures and explanation this evening or not.  Just thought you might have missed that discussion.
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #581 on: March 06, 2008, 10:50:58 PM »

JE

I do remember seeing Dave, being interviewed during the draining of the pond.  I think it was Soemers (ALE) interviewed, with him, that mentioned a "pair" of shoes.  I know that doesn't help with the single shoe and Beth's statement.   Welcome to the real world of "the shoe/shoes" investigation.  The big question is why did they make an issue out of it?  Shoe prints?  A comment by a maid that she saw blood?  a comment he was kicking Natalee??  Just speculating....


If it was just shoe prints I don't think Joran would have been worried about it. After all, he said they went to the beach. IMO there had to be some incriminating evidence on those shoes. Kicking or choking her would cause bleeding or vomiting, he is known to be an agressive individual and to have killed animals. In fact, he is an animal.

The shoes have been the Ground Hog's Day of this investigation for sure, Buckeye.
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« Reply #582 on: March 06, 2008, 10:55:16 PM »

From Kyle:

This is a picture taken right next to the fisherman's hut that was allegedly broken into.  The picture shows the cut-away spot in the brush where we believe the trap was stored.  There are branches cut off and rub marks on other branches indicating a trap of at least 6-7' wide may have been in the spot.  The cut-away was symmetrical.   The trap we found was too large to fit inside the fish hut door (see attached picture of the fish hut door that was replaced after the break-in).






The trap is drawn in here to give you an idea.



no one ever said the trap was inside the huts

from hodges site:

 The fisherman also noticed that a large fishing cage stored behind the first of the three Fisherman's Huts at the southern-most corner was missing. The cage had been there approximately a month since about Good Friday, March 25, 2005. The cage belonged to another fisherman who kept his boat next to these four huts. The boat was still there. But the cage was missing.

The fisherman described the cage as made of 3/8-inch iron (such as that used in concrete reinforcing—"rebar") with a frame size approximately 5 ˝ feet by 4 feet by 17 inches. He described it as a large fishing cage with its frame wrapped in chicken wire with its familiar hexagonal openings but with an opening in one panel which allowed them to trap fish. He believed that, given its size and weight, it would take two men to manage the cage. Once aboard, it would lay low on the floor of the nearby fishing boat.

JE, OE was here when the cage was being discussed on 3/1.  The opinion of one or more monkeys was that the cage that was taken was inside the fisherman's huts.  I remember because I posted a portion from the Hodges site in response.  I don't know if that was the purpose of his posting the pictures and explanation this evening or not.  Just thought you might have missed that discussion.
If who ever Joran called could have broke into the hut looking for the key to the fishing boat parked by the hut. If they returned it back to its mooring it would appear that it was never moved. Plus no need to find a boat that could hold the trap.
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« Reply #583 on: March 06, 2008, 10:55:57 PM »

Hi all- Here is something that may be important. Did Ale actually check the fishermans boat to see if any of Natalee's DNA could be found or blood. Its possible the boat that could transport a trap was sitting there all along. Next question did they keep the keys in the hut?


That begs the question, did ALE check anything? There are lots of boats not far away at the moorings in front of the hotels and rumor has it Koen Gottenbos had his boat parked there. There are very few put-in points where he lives on the north end of the island.

ALE and Karin Jannsen refused to interview him causing Asst. Prosecutor Amylin Flanigan to quit the investigation.
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« Reply #584 on: March 06, 2008, 10:59:30 PM »

Hi All...

I'm trying to catch up and could use a little help..

The tele-aruba show was cancelled because
a. The ALE won't allow the show to air (MOS)
b. Patrick has threatened to kill the host if it airs.
c. Peter DeVries has threatened legal action if it airs
d All of the above


B and C were said by Julia Renfro so I wouldnt trust it at all.


And that rules D out as well. Hans must have the hammer down on this for what reason we can only guess because he is about as effective as a one legged man in a butt kickin' contest.

Thank to All who responded...

I never trusted MOS since I hear (read) him say "we have proof she's dead and
everyday that passes is more proof" something like that..duh

but my a. came from a good source? I will never understand their (so called) system but
I take it that there's no freedom of the press...govt. controlled TV... one of the thousands
of reasons I love America...

Kyle can't answer questions about the search so asking him is more frustrating..what
he and the whole team did was incredible but I'm lost as to why they would pack and
go home just as they were getting so close to the end...it would seem more costly
to leave and come back later if funding was needed but that's their choice to make. I
can't begin to imagine the whole cost of what they've done already.
Did anyone call Bill Gates  a million or two is pocket change for him..

Thanks again for the help..

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We will never be able to make a woman want her child. But we as a society could make a safe haven for those children in that situation. Let not one more child die from lack of wanting... We could call it the Caylee House.
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« Reply #585 on: March 06, 2008, 11:04:19 PM »

The trap still intrigues me. It is possible that the one found could have been the one that was stolen, but based on what we know thus far, it likely did not contain remains related to this case. However, I think its possible it COULD have contained other items of evidence.

Then again, if that is true, one has to ask the question why go through so much trouble to dispose of clothes, shoes, etc., in such a manner.

THe bottom lines is I don't think the cage we are looking for has been found yet.
Bladerunner...what you say makes sense, but I can't stop thinking the knife/machete rope, etc and maybe other evidence (tennis shoe(s) any other evidence) may have been hastily disposed of in the trap and taken out that night. Natalee may have also been buried near the fish hut and later moved (landfill, water, incinerated??). I guess in this order: they buried Natalee first, then realized they needed to dispose of evidence-thats where the trap comes into play. They probably wouldn't think to take it too far out that night, thus the 90 ft depth. JMO


I'm liking it. But have to wonder why such a large trap for such a few items. Why not bury them, too? Just playing the devil's advocate here, Billb, anything is possible in this case.

The size of the cage leads one to believe that the cage--and whatever might have been inside--most likely went into the sea that night, since transporting it around the island would have be ackward and risky.

If it didn't go into the sea that night that would mean they would have had to have secured a vehicle capable of transporting it and a place to hide it out of view.

If they did stash it first somehwere--xtc house maybe--then they would also have had to of transported it once again in order to bring it to a boat. And at that time it would be full of "evidence." This double move scenario seems highly unlikely and since we know the trap has not turned up, it has to be in the ocean. If it is within the search grid, we know the rover will find it.

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« Reply #586 on: March 06, 2008, 11:04:43 PM »

Sea Searcher

I think I saw Bill Gate's name, on another site, as being contacted.
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« Reply #587 on: March 06, 2008, 11:08:17 PM »

Hi all- Here is something that may be important. Did Ale actually check the fishermans boat to see if any of Natalee's DNA could be found or blood. Its possible the boat that could transport a trap was sitting there all along. Next question did they keep the keys in the hut?


That begs the question, did ALE check anything? There are lots of boats not far away at the moorings in front of the hotels and rumor has it Koen Gottenbos had his boat parked there. There are very few put-in points where he lives on the north end of the island.

ALE and Karin Jannsen refused to interview him causing Asst. Prosecutor Amylin Flanigan to quit the investigation.

It would be interesting if the keys were kept inside the hut.
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« Reply #588 on: March 06, 2008, 11:08:17 PM »

Bladerunner

If they only his Natalee the first night....maybe in bushes with thorns or branches (causing scratches on Guido and Joran...or Joran's sore legs), they could have come back Monday evening...the night he purposely wanted to be seen on the casino camera...
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« Reply #589 on: March 06, 2008, 11:10:29 PM »

If it happened Sunday night, the fishermen were there and would have seen them.....must have been the next night...or after fishermen went home.
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« Reply #590 on: March 06, 2008, 11:11:52 PM »


well, julia screwed up again.  mos stopped the broadcast and here old julia blames peter and patrick of threatening lives.  does she ever get anything right?  particularly where natalee is concerned.
dennisintn


There is a reason the major media is avoiding Renfro and Gielen.

They now all know every time they open their mouths shit comes out.



'Cause they are talking out of their azzes (donkeys.)
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« Reply #591 on: March 06, 2008, 11:12:12 PM »

   
Van der Eem mentions name
(Traslation)
'Justice prohibits broadcasting fragment by Aruban transmitter'
Thursday, March 6, 2008 at 22:31

AMSTERDAM - Patrick van der Eem claims to know who Natalee Holloway has been thrown into the sea. That he said after a interviewprogramma the Aruban television, not knowing that there was a camera. According presenter Poentje Castro asked the public prosecutor in Aruba is not the fragment to broadcast, in which Van der Eem this name called.

By Jan Willem Navis


Van der Eem was after he himself with a hidden camera confession to Joran van der Sloot ontfutselde, also secretly filmed. That happened after an interview with Castro for the channel Tele Aruba. Last night time parts of this off-the-record interview broadcast on Aruba. Nieuwe Revu published yesterday on its website a transcript of the interview in the Papiaments implemented.

The Aruba known presenter Castro wants nothing release on the part of the interview in which Van der Eem procedure on how to handle the body of Holloway has happened."I have agreed with prosecutor Hans Mos." It would in any case not be Daury, the name Van der Sloot early February in the programme of Peter R. De Vries said.

Already circulating on the Internet a few days after the regular excerpts broadcast in the geniep with a small camera. The programme put the images on YouTube as prior to the broadcast of tonight.

"Van der Eem told that off-the-record portion a totally different story than when ordinary camera aanstond" says Castro. "In the broadcast did he pretended he did this for the Arubans, then he said that he did it for the money. He would be one million euro will earn." Van der Eem is working on a book about the affair, and got De Vries 25 thousand euros for his cooperation in the program.

The transcription of New Revu sounds by that Joran and Van der Eem each other for years. According to Castro is that a wrong interpretation, and it was Van der Eem precisely with Peter R. De Vries friends. The misdaadjournalist denies this. "If he knows me a long time is that of the television."

Patrick van der Eem wanted last night not respond. "Just what is broadcast tonight." Justice in Aruba wants nothing more than say that there are still investigation into what happened on the night that Holloway disappeared.

http://spitsnet.nl/nieuws.php/1/12572/online/van_der_eem_noemt_naam.html?p=rubriek1
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 11:25:22 PM by Observer » Logged

"I lied and thats the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot
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« Reply #592 on: March 06, 2008, 11:12:37 PM »

Bladerunner

If they only his Natalee the first night....maybe in bushes with thorns or branches (causing scratches on Guido and Joran...or Joran's sore legs), they could have come back Monday evening...the night he purposely wanted to be seen on the casino camera...

Ok, I'm forgetting the timeline here, when is the cage supposed to have been stolen and when was it reported stolen?
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« Reply #593 on: March 06, 2008, 11:13:15 PM »

Hi All...

I'm trying to catch up and could use a little help..

The tele-aruba show was cancelled because
a. The ALE won't allow the show to air (MOS)
b. Patrick has threatened to kill the host if it airs.
c. Peter DeVries has threatened legal action if it airs
d All of the above

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer and am very confused 

Also Kyle has posted a picture of some trees with a sketch
of the cage shown in the unimportant pictures sent to the FBI then put on the
internet by Robin? For what reason?

I'm really lost here...anyone?

Thanks

Robin wanted me to see them and analyze them.  LOL  Jackb
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« Reply #594 on: March 06, 2008, 11:13:16 PM »

If it happened Sunday night, the fishermen were there and would have seen them.....must have been the next night...or after fishermen went home.
So Monday night would have been when Beth arrived and saw Joran and Deepak and they were not dressed like they had been to the casino...right?
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In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
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« Reply #595 on: March 06, 2008, 11:17:07 PM »

Hi All...

I'm trying to catch up and could use a little help..

The tele-aruba show was cancelled because
a. The ALE won't allow the show to air (MOS)
b. Patrick has threatened to kill the host if it airs.
c. Peter DeVries has threatened legal action if it airs
d All of the above

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer and am very confused 

Also Kyle has posted a picture of some trees with a sketch
of the cage shown in the unimportant pictures sent to the FBI then put on the
internet by Robin? For what reason?

I'm really lost here...anyone?

Thanks

Robin wanted me to see them and analyze them.  LOL  Jackb
  I am worse after pics than a dog after a frisbie.  j/b
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« Reply #596 on: March 06, 2008, 11:19:06 PM »


The size of the cage leads one to believe that the cage--and whatever might have been inside--most likely went into the sea that night, since transporting it around the island would have be ackward and risky.

If it didn't go into the sea that night that would mean they would have had to have secured a vehicle capable of transporting it and a place to hide it out of view.

If they did stash it first somehwere--xtc house maybe--then they would also have had to of transported it once again in order to bring it to a boat. And at that time it would be full of "evidence." This double move scenario seems highly unlikely and since we know the trap has not turned up, it has to be in the ocean. If it is within the search grid, we know the rover will find it.




Agree with you here wholeheartedly, no way they are toting a trap like that around the island. Steve Croes would have a lot of knowledge about the huts, traps, and how to move them and if ALE haven't disappeared it there is supposed to be a call to him from a Van der Sloot phone around 6:30 am that morning. That would be the call that Paulus told Greta he can't remember whether he made or not.

I find it amazing that Paulus' memories fail him so much on what happens to the the most monumentally significant day of he and his son's lives.
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« Reply #597 on: March 06, 2008, 11:20:17 PM »

The trap still intrigues me. It is possible that the one found could have been the one that was stolen, but based on what we know thus far, it likely did not contain remains related to this case. However, I think its possible it COULD have contained other items of evidence.

Then again, if that is true, one has to ask the question why go through so much trouble to dispose of clothes, shoes, etc., in such a manner.

THe bottom lines is I don't think the cage we are looking for has been found yet.
Bladerunner...what you say makes sense, but I can't stop thinking the knife/machete rope, etc and maybe other evidence (tennis shoe(s) any other evidence) may have been hastily disposed of in the trap and taken out that night. Natalee may have also been buried near the fish hut and later moved (landfill, water, incinerated??). I guess in this order: they buried Natalee first, then realized they needed to dispose of evidence-thats where the trap comes into play. They probably wouldn't think to take it too far out that night, thus the 90 ft depth. JMO


I'm liking it. But have to wonder why such a large trap for such a few items. Why not bury them, too? Just playing the devil's advocate here, Billb, anything is possible in this case.
Burying evidence is also plausible, but I think they were in panic mode when "something bad happened" They buried Natalee in haste, then thought of evidence. The trap was there (and a fishing boat), maybe called for help (koen, K2, SC??) to handle trap. I have heard alot about possible Koen and his boat used for disposal, and that may have been the case. But if Koen's boat was too small, they more than likely use the fishing boat moored, since it was probably better suited to handle the trap. They used the boat to move the trap, then placed it back at its mooring. The purpose of using the trap for the evidence is to distance the evidence from the body. Could have been Paulus idea to do that initially, with Paulus then planning to move her body later, with or without letting the others know of his plan.
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« Reply #598 on: March 06, 2008, 11:20:52 PM »

Bladerunner

If they only his Natalee the first night....maybe in bushes with thorns or branches (causing scratches on Guido and Joran...or Joran's sore legs), they could have come back Monday evening...the night he purposely wanted to be seen on the casino camera...

Ok, I'm forgetting the timeline here, when is the cage supposed to have been stolen and when was it reported stolen?

I don't think we have an exact day....and Renfro would tell you that since there was no police report (because she knows everything) that there is no missing cage.  Guess the fishermen know when reporting thefts just isn't worth the phone call.   
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« Reply #599 on: March 06, 2008, 11:21:28 PM »

"Justice in Aruba wants nothing more than say that there are still investigation into what happened on the night that Holloway disappeared."



Yeah, sure, for nearly 3 friggin years!!!


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