Natalee Case Discussion #741 3/7 - 3/10/08

[katrien]

GBMW wrote:

Peter R. de Vries has spoken to Van der Eem, who wasn't available on Friday. Van der Eem had to laugh at the fact he was taped in secret.
,,Een koekje van eigen deeg noemde hij het (don't know how to translate this at the moment; it's an expression to say he's gotten what he has given...), according to De Vries. Castro & Patrick (him) have known each other for years, I think this is also a factor. Patrick says he HASN'T threatened Castro at all.

So the previous translations where it appeared the "known for years" was not Patrick and Joran but Patrick and Castro?

I don't think so. This is from a translation the company I work for has done:

1.Nee, maar kijk hè, ik zou niet met mezelf  kunnen leven, als, als, als, ntv vroeger vele jaren kende, en ik wist dat hij zoiets had gedaan, ntv zonder iets te doen, begrijp je, maar kijk, dit ding, hè, man, het is alsof dit ding zo had moeten zijn, brother, toen ik hoorde dat deze man uit Arnhem kwam, had ik er al over nagedacht, als ik je tegenkom, dan maak ik korte metten met je {letterlijk: maak ik je af}, wanneer ik je tegenkom, dan maak ik je een kopje kleiner[ maak ik je af], ik wist het al, ik ga het casino in, [piep], daar zitten, op dat moment heb ik mijn dag bepaald, klaar, aan de lijn, 7 maanden.  Kijk, het enige ntv [piep] , is de twee keer dat ze hem hebben gehaald, de twee keer dat ze hem gehaald hebben

1. No, but look he, I couldn't live with myself if, if, if, if, NTV (I think this means Niet Te Vertalen - can't be translated) used to know for many years, and I knew that he would have done something like this, NTV without doing something, you see, but look, this thing he, he, man, it's like this had to be, brother, when I heard this guy came from Arnhem, I had already thought about it, if I see you, I'll kill you (as an expression; not literally), I alreday knew, I'm going into the casino, (peep), sit there, and at that moment; that was it (this is my interpretion; translated literally it doesn't come across), ready, on the hook, 7 months. Look, the only NTV (peep), is the second time they came to get him, the second time they came to get him.

So it looks like he meant he couldn't live with himself without trying to figure out what Joran was hiding / wat he did. When he met Joran he seized the opportunity to try and get information out of him. He has known about the case (for a few years), sees Joran in a casino and made his decision to go for it....at least that is my interpretation of this....

There are also people who know both lanquages and are capabele of making an proper translation.

[GBMW]

GBMW wrote:

Peter R. de Vries has spoken to Van der Eem, who wasn't available on Friday. Van der Eem had to laugh at the fact he was taped in secret.
,,Een koekje van eigen deeg noemde hij het (don't know how to translate this at the moment; it's an expression to say he's gotten what he has given...), according to De Vries. Castro & Patrick (him) have known each other for years, I think this is also a factor. Patrick says he HASN'T threatened Castro at all.

So the previous translations where it appeared the "known for years" was not Patrick and Joran but Patrick and Castro?

I don't think so. This is from a translation the company I work for has done:

1.Nee, maar kijk hè, ik zou niet met mezelf  kunnen leven, als, als, als, ntv vroeger vele jaren kende, en ik wist dat hij zoiets had gedaan, ntv zonder iets te doen, begrijp je, maar kijk, dit ding, hè, man, het is alsof dit ding zo had moeten zijn, brother, toen ik hoorde dat deze man uit Arnhem kwam, had ik er al over nagedacht, als ik je tegenkom, dan maak ik korte metten met je {letterlijk: maak ik je af}, wanneer ik je tegenkom, dan maak ik je een kopje kleiner[ maak ik je af], ik wist het al, ik ga het casino in, [piep], daar zitten, op dat moment heb ik mijn dag bepaald, klaar, aan de lijn, 7 maanden.  Kijk, het enige ntv [piep] , is de twee keer dat ze hem hebben gehaald, de twee keer dat ze hem gehaald hebben

1. No, but look he, I couldn't live with myself if, if, if, if, NTV (I think this means Niet Te Vertalen - can't be translated) used to know for many years, and I knew that he would have done something like this, NTV without doing something, you see, but look, this thing he, he, man, it's like this had to be, brother, when I heard this guy came from Arnhem, I had already thought about it, if I see you, I'll kill you (as an expression; not literally), I alreday knew, I'm going into the casino, (peep), sit there, and at that moment; that was it (this is my interpretion; translated literally it doesn't come across), ready, on the hook, 7 months. Look, the only NTV (peep), is the second time they came to get him, the second time they came to get him.

So it looks like he meant he couldn't live with himself without trying to figure out what Joran was hiding / wat he did. When he met Joran he seized the opportunity to try and get information out of him. He has known about the case (for a few years), sees Joran in a casino and made his decision to go for it....at least that is my interpretation of this....

GBMW - thanks

Some are saying that Patrick said he has known Joran for years, that's what I was trying to clarify.

So you are saying Patrick has known about the CASE and when he saw Joran in the Casino he decides to "go for it".  If I understand you correctly, that makes alot more sense. 

But this is my interpretation of course....that's why I thought the translation could be helpful to you (and others of course); you can read it yourself and maybe have a different idea about what Patrick is meaning to say.
It makes sense because it's more logical and this is what Patrick has been saying in other interviews AND Joran also stated that he has known Patrick for a couple of months. And I do believe Joran in this....but then again; when it comes to Joran you can never be sure

[Anna]

This is the blog of a person who taught herself Papiamento and has done some very good translations especially of early articles that appeared in local Aruban newspapers.  I am posting for any of the Dutch posters who may not know about her site:


http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/


The archives contain a lot of useful information.

.

[texasmom]

GBMW--Thanks for the translation.  The case and not Joran.

I think if we could hear all of what Patrick said, it would turn out much like this.  Translation has long been a problem in getting accurate information about this investigation. 

I think so few people speak Papiamento well that they are able to get away with making claims to just about anything being said. 

The idea seems to be that if they can discredit Patrick, we will forget what Joran said.  Same thing if they can discredit Natalee and Beth, we will forget what Joran did to her.
.

I agree Anna!

[San]

I know I have already posted my feelings concerning Patrick van der Eem but ...

Patrick has some very serious issues in regards to discretion ... self-esteem.  He will reveal all to whoever asks and ... he is undoing all the good he has done in cause of justice for Natalee Holloway.

Patrick should be documenting everything ... accumulating all recorded evidence ... having it notarized by the FBI.  However ... it is imparative that Patrick considers his words very careful prior to openly speaking.

IMO

Janet

+++++++++++++++


“Silence is a source of great strength."
Lao Tzu

“Do not speak unless you can improve the silence”
Proverb

“There are times when silence has the loudest voice”
Leroy Brownlow

I agree Janet.  I love this line because it is so true.

[klaasend]

Thanks Klaas for posting those screen shots of the fisherman with the trap both over his head and on the boat.  The trap pictured seems to match the approximate dimensions and description obtained by Dr. Hodges.  Nicely done indeed. 

I agree!  And although I won't ask Klaas to do it, I would love to see more screen shots of the video.  I have real issues when I try to watch video, but some of the comments regarding it have definately peaked my interest.  Man on the roof especially, could this be where some of the other videos discussed here came from?

Here are the fish trap pics and a few addtional screen captures from that video:

[texasmom]

GBMW wrote:

Peter R. de Vries has spoken to Van der Eem, who wasn't available on Friday. Van der Eem had to laugh at the fact he was taped in secret.
,,Een koekje van eigen deeg noemde hij het (don't know how to translate this at the moment; it's an expression to say he's gotten what he has given...), according to De Vries. Castro & Patrick (him) have known each other for years, I think this is also a factor. Patrick says he HASN'T threatened Castro at all.

So the previous translations where it appeared the "known for years" was not Patrick and Joran but Patrick and Castro?

I don't think so. This is from a translation the company I work for has done:

1.Nee, maar kijk hè, ik zou niet met mezelf  kunnen leven, als, als, als, ntv vroeger vele jaren kende, en ik wist dat hij zoiets had gedaan, ntv zonder iets te doen, begrijp je, maar kijk, dit ding, hè, man, het is alsof dit ding zo had moeten zijn, brother, toen ik hoorde dat deze man uit Arnhem kwam, had ik er al over nagedacht, als ik je tegenkom, dan maak ik korte metten met je {letterlijk: maak ik je af}, wanneer ik je tegenkom, dan maak ik je een kopje kleiner[ maak ik je af], ik wist het al, ik ga het casino in, [piep], daar zitten, op dat moment heb ik mijn dag bepaald, klaar, aan de lijn, 7 maanden.  Kijk, het enige ntv [piep] , is de twee keer dat ze hem hebben gehaald, de twee keer dat ze hem gehaald hebben

1. No, but look he, I couldn't live with myself if, if, if, if, NTV (I think this means Niet Te Vertalen - can't be translated) used to know for many years, and I knew that he would have done something like this, NTV without doing something, you see, but look, this thing he, he, man, it's like this had to be, brother, when I heard this guy came from Arnhem, I had already thought about it, if I see you, I'll kill you (as an expression; not literally), I alreday knew, I'm going into the casino, (peep), sit there, and at that moment; that was it (this is my interpretion; translated literally it doesn't come across), ready, on the hook, 7 months. Look, the only NTV (peep), is the second time they came to get him, the second time they came to get him.

So it looks like he meant he couldn't live with himself without trying to figure out what Joran was hiding / wat he did. When he met Joran he seized the opportunity to try and get information out of him. He has known about the case (for a few years), sees Joran in a casino and made his decision to go for it....at least that is my interpretation of this....

GBMW - thanks

Some are saying that Patrick said he has known Joran for years, that's what I was trying to clarify.

So you are saying Patrick has known about the CASE and when he saw Joran in the Casino he decides to "go for it".  If I understand you correctly, that makes alot more sense. 

But this is my interpretation of course....that's why I thought the translation could be helpful to you (and others of course); you can read it yourself and maybe have a different idea about what Patrick is meaning to say.
It makes sense because it's more logical and this is what Patrick has been saying in other interviews AND Joran also stated that he has known Patrick for a couple of months. And I do believe Joran in this....but then again; when it comes to Joran you can never be sure

Thank you GBMW!  I agree with your explanation, and appreciate your input.

[GBMW]

This is the blog of a person who taught herself Papiamento and has done some very good translations especially of early articles that appeared in local Aruban newspapers.  I am posting for any of the Dutch posters who may not know about her site:


http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/


The archives contain a lot of useful information.

.

Thanks Anna!

[bluwaters]

Thank you to Jo-An, caesu, Destiny, and Tamikosmom for reply to my question of legal jurisdiction between Aruba and the NL. It has always mystified me that Aruba is independent, yet part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands at the same time.

Unless the Netherlands can appoint a commission to investigate Aruba's investigation of Natalee's case, then it is unlikely to ever happen. I can't imagine Aruba wanting to investigate itself!

I do not understand the blatant disregard for the obvious obstruction of justice committed by Joran. His constantly changing lies may exonerate him from his own confession, but the same lies more than meet the threshold of an obstruction charge, IMHO. Yet all on the happy island are merrily oblivious to this. Destruction of evidence seems to be perfectly acceptable as well.

"Everyone lies" says Anita, seeming bewildered that anyone would expect the truth to be told.
2K's mother gave a similar response.
It used to puzzle, then horrify me that lying is an acceptable practice on Aruba.
Now I "get it."

Lying is the best form of defence on Aruba! My proof? It works!!!

[bluwaters]

Thank you to katrien, Jo-An, caesu, Destiny, and Tamikosmom for reply to my question of legal jurisdiction between Aruba and the NL. It has always mystified me that Aruba is independent, yet part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands at the same time.

Unless the Netherlands can appoint a commission to investigate Aruba's investigation of Natalee's case, then it is unlikely to ever happen. I can't imagine Aruba wanting to investigate itself!

I do not understand the blatant disregard for the obvious obstruction of justice committed by Joran. His constantly changing lies may exonerate him from his own confession, but the same lies more than meet the threshold of an obstruction charge, IMHO. Yet all on the happy island are merrily oblivious to this. Destruction of evidence seems to be perfectly acceptable as well.

"Everyone lies" says Anita, seeming bewildered that anyone would expect the truth to be told.
2K's mother gave a similar response.
It used to puzzle, then horrify me that lying is an acceptable practice on Aruba.
Now I "get it."

Lying is the best form of defence on Aruba! My proof? It works!!!

[Tamikosmom]

Very interesting article ...


http://www.nbc13.com/gulfcoastwest/vtm/news.apx.-content-articles-VTM-2008-02-07-0007.html

Thursday, Feb 07, 2008 - 02:41 PM Updated: 03:26 PM
By Jennifer Hale

Thursday, Aruban prosecutors are scheduled to meet with Joran van der Sloot in Holland. Van der Sloot has not been arrested - he's meeting with prosecutors voluntarily.

The topic of discussion: his secretly recorded confession. If convicted in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, van der Sloot could face as little as a few months in jail or as much as life in prison, but first it will take a lengthy legal battle to even bring him into court.

According to Dutch and Aruban law, Joran van der Sloot's secretly taped confession by itself isn't strong enough to have him re-arrested, let alone bring him to trial, since he now says he made the story up. But van der Sloot's confession is giving prosecutors some new clues where to look for additional evidence, and Natalee's family has more insight into what may have happened to her.

Van der Sloot's confession is hitting Natalee's family hard. Van der Sloot says he was lying, but Natalee's family says for once - they think he's being honest.

"Oh absolutely - I watched him intently: his mannerisms, his tone of voice. I'm absolutely sure that's the truth., " says Paul Reynolds, Natalee's uncle and Beth Holloway's brother.

It's not just a gut feeling either. Natalee's father Dave Holloway arranged for the confession to be tested through voice analysis equipment that detects lies. Holloway says the test's result: a truthful, valid statement. Except Holloway believes the story goes on from there.

"A lot of people on tv are afraid to say it, but I'm not: I think there's more to it, " says Dave Holloway.

He suspects van der Sloot slipped Natalee drugs - a common practice in Aruba's night clubs. Holloway says a detective warned him about it the first day he arrived in Aruba.

"He repeatedly told us, and I'll never forget: He says watch your drink around here because drugs are prevalent and somebody may slip something into it," says Holloway.

One of the more common drugs in Aruba: GHB, also known as the Date Rape Drug in America, but in Aruba it's commonly used as a party drug, one you can even order at some bars.

"You can buy a drink and pay a bartender $25, and he'll put it in it, " says Holloway.

In his confession, van der Sloot described Natalee's condition on the beach that night: trembling, that turned into shaking and then nothing...an unconscious state van der Sloot says he couldn't wake Natalee from... symptoms Samford University's Dr. Pam Sims says could describe someone who's been given GHB.

"Generally when they pass out, it looks like a coma. They are not arousable. That is generally caused because they're blood pressure drops so low, " says Dr. Pam Sims, Pharmacy Chair at Samford University.

In his confession, van der Sloot says he checked to see if Natalee was dead before deciding to drop her in the ocean, but Dr. Sims warns that's a call van der Sloot wasn't qualified to make.

"Lay people may not be able to detect pulses that are very faint or breathing that's very shallow or irregular," says Dr. Sims.

If van der Sloot's confession is true - Natalee may have been alive when she was thrown into the ocean.

"He claims he shook her and she didn't arouse- that doesn't mean she's dead, " says Dr. Sims.

"We try not to think about because it's too painful to imagine," says Reynolds.

Dutch media reports claim fifty percent of Holland's population watched the tv report about the secretly recorded tapes. Newspapers are full of stories and opinion columns about the alleged confession. Now the country's Parliament is bitterly debating whether lawmakers should step in and review how the case is being handled.

Aruba's chief prosecutor is fighting to have van der Sloot re-arrested and brought to trial, but so far a Dutch judge says no.

"He put the threshold very, very high because this is the third consecutive time you've asked me for this in two and a half years time. Well, this is serious, but he thought it didn't meet his threshold, " explains Aruba's Chief Prosecutor Hans Mos.

If an arrest happens, this would be the third time Aruba has taken van der Sloot into custody for Natalee's disappearance. Every time the prosecution asks for permission to re-arrest, their burden of proof increases.

According to Aruban law, a suspect's own words can't be used against him and there's no such thing as perjury. Consequently, a judge needs something to back up van der Sloot's confession. However, right now, there are several reasons the judge doubts van der Sloot's confession:   

The accomplice van der Sloot says dumped Natalee's body has come forward and says the story is made up. The phone booth van der Sloot says he used to call the accomplice is actually a credit card only phone for tourists that just connects to the United States. Plus, van der Sloot says he abandoned his shoes the night Natalee died in a drain on his walk home, but Aruba doesn't have street-side drains.

The Aruban Prosecutor's Office says investigators are searching for the needed back up evidence. If they can find it, they are considering charging van der Sloot with:

Aiding and Abetting First Degree Murder, which carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment; Injury to Health Causing Death, which carries a sentence of six to nine years; Accidental Death, a sentence of up to nine months; Illegal Disposal of a Corpse, a sentence of up to six months and Not Giving Aid to Someone in Need, which also carries a sentence of up to six months.

If van der Sloot is ever brought to trial and convicted, he would get credit for the time he's already served in jail. Aruba's Prosecutor expects a higher court to answer his appeal to re-arrest van der Sloot by next Tuesday.

+++++++++++++++

[Tamikosmom]

Maybe ... just maybe ... if Hans Mos had accessed Joran's declaration of May 31, 2005 and Freddy's declaration of February 12, 2005 and ... presented it to the Judge ... Joran would have been detained.  It does appear that there is backup evidence in the Natalee Holloway case file that corroborates Joran's words in the Peter Devries video recording regarding Natalee's condition.

Janet

+++++++++++++


Holloway Suspect: 'I Know What Happened'
Dutch Student Said Natalee Holloway's Body Was Dumped in the Ocean
February 3, 2008

In one taped conversation, van der Sloot told van der Eem that Holloway visibly convulsed "like a movie," that she was shaking "a lot."
 
"Did you try CPR on her?" asked van der Eem.
 
"Of course, I tried everything," van der Sloot said. "I tried to shake her. I was shaking the bitch. I was like, 'What is wrong with you man?' I almost wanted to cry. Why does this s*** have to happen to me?"

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=4222253&page



February 15, 2008 -- Updated 1706 GMT (0106 HKT)
Court: No rearrest in Aruba disappearance of U.S. teen

... but the judge denied a prosecution request that van der Sloot be detained.  Prosecutors appealed that portion of the decision but were turned down in Thursday's ruling.  The reasons underlying the Court’s decision are the following. “The Court has seen the visual materials, has listened to the audio materials and has inspected the verbatim reports. Based on that, he court is of the opinion that there is a lack of sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspect's involvement in the crimes for which he is being held responsible by the prosecution," the appeals court announcement said.  "The evidence has to be very, very strong" for a person to be rearrested, Kruimel told the AP on Friday.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/02/15/holloway/


John Kelly
On the Record w/ Greta
February 20, 2008
 
KELLY:  Let me throw one more thing in on that Greta.  On May 31st, Joran was the first person interviewed by Jacobs when he's taking statements. Every police report subsequent to that, the statements made by Deepak, made by Satish, made by Beth that day, we have them all, there is no statement from Joran until June 9th.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Twi7-8OqS4


Beth Holloway
On the Record w/ Greta
February 7, 2008
 
HOLLOWAY: I couldn't believe it because, I mean, it was so stunning, it was so stunning that I was hearing these words that Joran was saying because two- and-a-half years ago, gosh, Greta, within 48 hours of Natalee's disappearance — 48 hours — the lead detective, Dennis Jacobs, came to me in the Bubali (ph) police station and says, Does Natalee have a history of epilepsy or seizures?  And I thought, No, why are you asking that? And he did it — they did it repeatedly to Jug. And when I was hearing that, it just — it just felt like it brought everything full circle of what we had been fighting for.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,329348,00.html


Freddy Arambatzis
Witness Statement
De Zaak Natalee Holloway
June 12, 2005

Monday afternoon on the 30th, Joran came to my house.

He told me that the previous day, Sunday, he had befriended a girl in the Holiday Inn casino and that she had invited him to come to Carlos and Charlies that evening. He went and they danced and drank together.

After that he, Deepak Satish and the girl drove off. Her friends saw that. The drove in the direction of the Lighthouse; a white car was behind them and most likely wanted to race Deepak. But that is something Deepak would never do. Joran told me that he fingered and had french kissed the girl while they were driving. He did not say that he had had sex with her.

They drove to the Lighthouse, she wanted to see sharks. But Deepak only drove up to the Lighthouse because his car is very low to the ground and cannot drive up to the North side of Aruba.

The girl had said to Joran that if Deepak and Satish would have lived in her town, they would be slaves.

After that they drove to the hotel. When the girl had pushed open the door of the car, she fell to the ground. Joran wanted to help her but she shoved him away.

The next day, Tuesday May 31st 2005 in the afternoon, I was with Joran at the raquetclub. Joran looked worried. He asked me if I could remember what he had said the previous day about the girl. I told him yes. The girl had gone missing. The FBI had been to his house during the night but he had not been home. His father had called him to find out where he was, Joran said that he was in the Raddison Casino. He told he that after that phone call he was called on the phone by Deepak and that Deepak picked him up a few minutes later. They drove to Joran's house. The FBI and the girls family were at his house. After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and himself did not drop off the girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that the four of them drove to the beach at the north side of the Marriot Hotel. The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that they had left her on the beach. He also told me that he had left his gym/sporting shoes on the beach. After Joran had told me this, I asked him why he had left her there. He answered me that at that moment he had not known what to do. Joran told me that after this he was dropped off at home by Deepak and Satish.
Translation Credit: Rammstein


Joran van der Sloot
De Zaak Natalee Holloway
Page 160/161

After Freddy's second statement on June 13th at 18:30, in which he keeps insisting that I told him the first story already on May 30th, the police confront us as best friends with each other.  Some further statements follow after that.  In the end Freddy states in his 6th and 7th statements (verbatim reports) that I have told him that Natalee went unconscious several times and did not regain consciousness at a certain moment, that I tried to wake her up by shaking her but that but this also did not work.
Unofficial Engish translation

[Anna]

On BFN Chat last night, Dave Holloway has direct contact with Hans Mos for expressing any concerns he may have.   He knows better than anyone what Mos would have to say on any subject that concerns him.

Dave knows full well who is lying.  And he knows who isn't.  He is not going to be "misinformed" by any mere poster.

I was in that chat the entire time the poster Birdy was and at no time did this poster disclose anything Mos might have said to poster concerning Daury or Lorenzo as was previously posted here.  Didn't even post what the question presented to Mos was in the first place, either. 

But have no fear, Dave Holloway isn't fooled easily and will verify for himself directly with Mos any concerns he may have and has indicated he is encouraged by the response he has received.

I try to hold out a little hope that Mos is one of the good guys and is eventually going to do the right thing.  At times this is difficult but it is basically the only hope we have for any kind of prosecution at present so I do try.  I'm not even sure what alternative exists at present other than awaiting the next election in hopes of a complete change of government that may or may not happen and even then we are not assured of the desired results.

Does anyone know if Aruba has to incorporate or adapt Dutch law formally for it to be in place as the law of the land in Aruba or is that just a given that it is so?  Does their Parliament have to vote to accept a particular law or set of laws or is it a blanket acceptance?

I ask this as there was talk at one time that Aruban has no corruption laws in place.

.

[texasmom]

  THANK YOU KLAAS!

Very interesting screen captures......
I hope ******* has included some of those on his "white truck" thread, going over to check.



 

[Linda in MD]

Klaas,
Has the judge in the Dr. Phil case made any rulings since allowing 5 additional days for performance on request for documents?
Linda in MD

[klaasend]

Klaas,
Has the judge in the Dr. Phil case made any rulings since allowing 5 additional days for performance on request for documents?
Linda in MD

I don't think so, I believe it was postponed by the court.  I'll take a look now.

[private eye]

++++++++++

Quote from: johan555 on March 05, 2008, 09:01:22 AM

de moeder van Lorenzo

De moeder van Lorenzo, Astrid van Rijn, actief is als poster op een aantal websites (als SandraK en Keywest). Zij gaf onlangs aan dat ze op goede voet staat met Robin Holloway, de vrouw van Dave Holloway. Dit is natuurlijk pikant, nu de ex vriendin van Lorenzo van Rijn zijn alibi op 30 mei 2005 intrekt

So...Lorenzo's Mom posts as Sandrak...trying to help Lorenzo with an alibi?

Well if SandraK is Loranzo's Mom, and considering the fact that she has interjected herself into the coverup squad, I say we should pay our respects to her and put the spotlight on Loranzo, the mysterious stud of Aruba, who like his nitwit brother Joran, likes to have him Mommy fight his battles for him. She they are bastard brothers, maybe Joran will share his grannies panties to sniff with Lorenzo.

[klaasend]

Klaas,
Has the judge in the Dr. Phil case made any rulings since allowing 5 additional days for performance on request for documents?
Linda in MD

Here is the current info:

Case Summary 




Please make a note of the Case Number.

Click here to access document images for this case. 
If this link fails, you may go to the Case Document Images site and search using the case number displayed on this page.

Case Number: BC363201
DEEPAK KALPOE VS PHILLIP C MCGRAW
Filing Date: 12/13/2006
Case Type: Defamation (Slander/Libel) (General Jurisdiction)
Status: Pending



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Future Hearings
04/03/2008 at 08:30 am in department 69 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Motion to Dismiss ((Second) and Request forTerminating Sanctions;)

04/29/2008 at 08:30 am in department 69 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Motion to Compel ((2))

05/06/2008 at 08:30 am in department 69 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Conference-Case Management (2) MTN TO DISMISS3) MTN FOR SUBST. OF PERS. REP.FOR DECEASED DEFT4) MTN FOR STAY OF ORDER5) CASE MANAGEMENT CONF6) OSC RE FTA ON 12/7/07)


The hearing for the Motion to Compel was supposed to be in March but the court requested the date be changed to April 29, 2008 for some reason.

[Tamikosmom]

In the following interview ... Peter Devries appears to be adhering to the Aruban agenda of focusing the blame on Joran while ... minimizing Paulus role ... not alluding to Deepak and Satish's participation ... upholding the prosecution and the investigation and ... giving Anita the benefit of the doubt.

 

Tell me ... I am becoming dillusional ... conspiracies in the Natalee Holloway case abound  everywhere.

Janet

+++++++++


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,329847,00.html

Dutch Crime Reporter Peter De Vries Goes Inside Joran van der Sloot's Explosive Tape
Friday, February 08, 2008

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: The mastermind behind catching Joran van der Sloot on tape is right here. Yes, you will hear from Dutch crime reporter Peter De Vries. Now, Peter organized the hidden camera operation that busted Joran van der Sloot talking about Natalee Holloway. On tape, Joran says the night Natalee disappeared, she was unresponsive, shaking.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP - TRANSLATED ON SCREEN)

JORAN VAN DER SLOOT: All of a sudden, Patrick, like a movie, all the things she did.

PATRICK VAN DER EEM: Shaking?

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, a lot. So I was, like, (DELETED), what's all this?

VAN DER EEM: Did you try to resuscitate her?

VAN DER SLOOT: Of course. I tried everything. I was shaking the (DELETED).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAN SUSTEREN: So what did Joran do? He said he made his friend dump Natalee's body off a boat, though he was not sure if Natalee was even dead. How did Peter De Vries get Joran to talk? What else did Joran say that you didn't see? Dutch crime reporter Peter De Vries joins us live in New York. Welcome, Peter.

PETER DE VRIES, DUTCH CRIME REPORTER: Hello, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: Peter, you're world famous. Everybody knows you. But just to give a little introduction to our viewers, tell us a little bit about your show in Holland and your background, sir.

DE VRIES: Well, I'm a crime reporter for more than 30 years now, Greta. I wrote several true crime books, and my show runs now for 13 years, and we solve quite a lot of murders and disappearances.

VAN SUSTEREN: So when did you first get started on sort of the Joran van der Sloot case?

DE VRIES: Well, that must have been 18 months ago. We went to Aruba and we did an investigation there on the case. And well, there it started.

VAN SUSTEREN: How many times have you actually met Joran van der Sloot?

DE VRIES: I met him a couple of times, but he didn't want to talk to me. And I can understand why, because I was asking him tough questions.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So now let's talk about the taping. How did that come about? How did you do that? Who worked with you?

DE VRIES: Well, about six months ago, a guy named Patrick came up to me and he said, I'm a close friend of Joran. I met him in a casino and we became friends, and I don't trust his story about what happened that night on the beach. Is there anything I can do for you, he asked me. Well, I said, of course you can. And then we worked out a plan with the undercover camera operation.

VAN SUSTEREN: What -- how did you know Patrick?

DE VRIES: Well, Patrick came up to me because in Holland, it is known that I'm intrigued and interested in the disappearance of Natalee.

VAN SUSTEREN: What does Patrick do for a living? Who is he?

DE VRIES: Patrick is a businessman. He has his own business. He has a criminal record for 12 or 13 years ago. He was convicted for drugs possession. But after that, he became a respected businessman.

VAN SUSTEREN: What is his business, do you know?

DE VRIES: Yes, it's a technical thing. I don't know exactly what it is, but it's OK.

VAN SUSTEREN: And he met Joran in a casino?

DE VRIES: Yes, he met Joran in a casino. They both like to play poker. They both speak Papiamento, and that's how they contacted each other.

VAN SUSTEREN: So how did -- if you know, how did Patrick befriend him and get him to start talking to him?

DE VRIES: Well, that's a long process. In the beginning, Patrick pretends that he wasn't interested in the whole Natalee story. And when Joran wants to talk about it, he said, Well, I'm not interested. Keep it to yourself. It's your business. And after a few months, when we were involved, he started to ask questions about the case, after Joran's second arrest.

VAN SUSTEREN: So what was the plan? When was the first taping? I think there was a little problem with the first taping. You planned it and then Joran got arrested?

DE VRIES: Yes, that's right. The day we were planning to do it, he was arrested.

VAN SUSTEREN: What -- in terms of the high tech -- I mean, I've seen these tapes, and actually, the quality is quite good. Who set up the cameras inside? How was that done?

DE VRIES: My program did it. We often work with undercover cameras. We are very experienced in that. And we were thinking where, Would Joran talk about his knowledge in the Natalee case? Not in his home. That would be a legal, a law problem for us. Not in a restaurant or a cafe. But he will feel safe in a car. And that's why we provided our man, Patrick, with a Range Rover car, and well, we equipped it with the latest sound and cameras.

VAN SUSTEREN: How much tape do you have? How many minutes or hours do you think total?

DE VRIES: Oh, we have in total, I think, 20 hours. But quite a lot of the 20 hours is spent with man talk about football, girls and things like that. And a couple of hours, they were talking about Natalee's case.

VAN SUSTEREN: In terms of the 20 hours, that's over how many different days? I mean, is that one very long trip, or is it broken up into a number of trips?

DE VRIES: Yes, that's an important question, Greta. It's not just one conversation. It's not a slip of the tongue. We have been recording five days. So several moments, several days, and sometimes a week between it.

VAN SUSTEREN: Was he smoking marijuana? Because at least it seemed that -- maybe I'm wrong, but it looked like he was smoking marijuana, or smoking something.

DE VRIES: Yes, Joran was smoking pot sometimes. That's his daily routine. He wasn't pushed to it by our guy, Patrick. We didn't aim for that. It's his daily routine. He has been writing about that in his book, too.

VAN SUSTEREN: And the marijuana laws are a little different in Holland, or at least in Amsterdam?

DE VRIES: Oh, yes, it's not illegal in Holland. It's not a crime. You can smoke pot if you like, no problem.

VAN SUSTEREN: In terms of the actual taping, and we've heard different snippets of it, after you had the tape in the can, did you ever contact Joran and say, Well, we have this tape?

DE VRIES: No, we didn't because we had a couple of hours on tape, so there was nothing to ask because he told the whole story. It was a full confession on tape.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know how he found out about the fact that you had a camera?

DE VRIES: Yes. He learned that from television.

VAN SUSTEREN: And has he ever tried to contact you or say -- because now he's saying, of course, publicly, that that was a big lie, that he was just lying.

DE VRIES: Yes. What else could he say, Greta? Because otherwise, he's going in jail. So that's the only thing he can say, of course.

VAN SUSTEREN: Where were they driving in all those -- in the tapes we've seen?

DE VRIES: Oh, they were just cruising around.

VAN SUSTEREN: Just got in the car and go for a ride? They weren't going, like, out to casinos or going cross-country or anything like that?

DE VRIES: Yes, they were going cross-country, looking for a building and things like that.

VAN SUSTEREN: In terms of the actual conversation with Joran, some of it -- I mean, some of it seems a little bit prodding. For instance, I'm actually concerned with the part where it says that she was shaking. That's a very -- it may be an important part of the investigation. In the tape that we see, Patrick seems to suggest the shaking. I went over our transcript today. Am I wrong on that?

DE VRIES: I didn't understand that quite well.

VAN SUSTEREN: What did -- let me back up then. What does Joran say about Natalee the night that she died?

DE VRIES: Well, what he is saying is that he was on the beach with her and that she suddenly did like this, and then he panicked. And he said, Well, she died at that moment. She wasn't ticking (ph) anymore. And then he found his friend, and he wanted to get rid of the body. And they brought her into a boat, and then she was disposed into the ocean.

VAN SUSTEREN: Now, there's a lot of rumors coming out of Aruba, as you might imagine. One thing I'm hearing tonight, that we had Daury Rodriguez on last night, who was the person who's actually identified on the tapes. But now there's a suggestion that there might be another Daury. Do you know, if there's another Daury?

DE VRIES: Yes, Daury Rodriguez is not the guy mentioned by Joran. It's another guy. He's in the news. I know that. But he's not the guy who was mentioned by Joran.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Where is this other guy mentioned by Joran, who helped, according to Joran, dispose of the body?

DE VRIES: Well, we don't know. The police investigators are looking for him. But I'm not quite sure if Daury is really Joran's helper because the first day, when he was talking about his helper, Joran said, I will never, ever mention his name. I will take that into my grave. And then the next day, when our man, Patrick, was pushing a little bit on that and telling him, Well, who was it, you can trust me, then he mentioned the name Daury. But I think he's protecting somebody else.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. And do you know who that somebody else is? I mean, do you have any sort of -- besides just sort of a gut reaction, do you have anything independent to suggest who it might really be?

DE VRIES: Well, that's hard to say. Then I'm starting speculating, and well, I might not do that.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Peter, stand by because we have much more with you in a few moments. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAN SUSTEREN: Dutch crime reporter Peter De Vries is still here with us. Peter, I got an e-mail question from Julia Renfro, who's the editor- in-chief of Aruba Today, and she asked this question, which I think is a good one. "How did you know Joran was lying when others were inclined to believe him?"

Now, I guess it's a little bit of a slap at me because I said I was inclined to believe him after I met with him. But nonetheless, it's a good question. I mean, what made you right from the get-go not believe him?

DE VRIES: Well, I have been doing some investigation on the spot, on Aruba, and I read the files and I spoke to people who were involved. And well, I'm an experienced crime reporter. And almost from the beginning, I didn't believe his story. And there were some established lies about Natalee dropping at the Holiday Inn hotel, the way he came home, the story about the shoes. It was too much to believe.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you think -- a lot of viewers send me e-mails. I have a -- we have a blog here, Gretawire.com, and they send a lot of comments. They're very suspicious that Paulus Van Der Sloot has more of an involvement than simply just the father of the man who was caught on tape. Do you have any information that in any way incriminates Paulus Van Der Sloot?

DE VRIES: Well, Joran told on tape that his father smuggled a mobile phone, a cell phone in the prison when he was the first time arrested. And he was a judge at that time, so that's -- that's a sin.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, let me just -- let me go to this press conference, Peter, if you can hold off for a second, in Kirkwood, Missouri. The police are talking about this shooting.

(KIRKWOOD POLICE NEWS CONFERENCE)

VAN SUSTEREN: Let's go back to Dutch crime reporter Peter De Vries, who is still with us. Peter, I want to focus now for a second on the guy who supposedly assisted in tossing the body off the boat. What efforts are being made, if you know, by the police to locate him?

DE VRIES: Well, the Dutch police is very busy with the investigation. That's what I understood. And they are looking for this guy, whoever it may be.

VAN SUSTEREN: Now, do you have confidence in the Dutch police and the Aruba police in terms of this investigation?

DE VRIES: Yes. I met several guys from the team. I spoke to Hans Mos, the head prosecutor, and I'm confident, quite confident, that they will solve this case finally.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there anything on that tape that you did not show for whatever reason that you think would be particularly important to the investigation?

DE VRIES: No, no, no. You have seen all relevant scenes, and I think what we didn't broadcast is more of the same, you could say.

VAN SUSTEREN: And boy talk, as you described it, or guy talk or something.

DE VRIES: And boy talk, yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now, when you showed that tape to Hans Mos, the chief prosecutor, what did he say to you?

DE VRIES: Oh, he was, of course, very happy. And there was also the police commissioner, Dolph Richardson. And when he was looking at the tape, he said to me, Can you please pinch me in the arm because this is what we are waiting for.

VAN SUSTEREN: What about an arrest? Did they mention anything about -- you know that there was an effort to try to arrest Joran van der Sloot. The judge turned them down. It's now on appeal. Do you have any more information on that?

DE VRIES: No, what I know now is that Joran van der Sloot made a statement to the police investigators today. I don't know what he said, but there was a statement. And well, that's a great development because until now, Joran van der Sloot refused to talk to the police and didn't say a word. So now he's talking, and let's hope that he is answering all the questions.

VAN SUSTEREN: What prompted him to toss that wine in your face on that TV show? Did you say something to him, or what was that all about?

DE VRIES: Oh, he was frustrated about me because I was asking questions all the time, and I was saying -- I was telling the audience that Joran lied several times, that he couldn't answer simple questions, and that he was always keeping silent to the police. And well, that frustrated him.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you already have in the can the tape and know what was on the tape, or was that -- or didn't you at that point?

DE VRIES: Pardon?

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you already have your tape completed at that time, the undercover tape?

DE VRIES: No, no, no. It wasn't completed. The undercover operation was running at that moment.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Both his parents -- were they both present for that?

DE VRIES: Yes, they were present. Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did Joran's parents say anything to you at that point or even after the show?

DE VRIES: After the show, they apologized for what their son did. And I think his mother is a good mother. She loves her son, but she doesn't know what he is doing, I think. And well, his father, I have some special thoughts about him.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. And I hope you'll come back, Peter, as you develop more information on those special thoughts, if, indeed, you get some more information on them. Peter, you're always welcome back here. So thank you, Peter.

DE VRIES: OK. You're welcome, Greta.

[private eye]

SandraK has been online posting misinformation and hate since the beginning. Loranzo has really never been attacked, detained, charges, and only briefly spoken to by the police, whom seemed afraid to enter his, a 25 or so year old, yard, much less search the place.

So unless there is a deep, close relationship between her and the VDS, or an involvement by Loranzo, what is her reasoning to get involved to the point that she is malicious and guilty of working diligently to spread misinformation. I would say that Lorenzo has been a friend of Joran's almost Joran's entire life.