Natalee Case Discussion #741 3/7 - 3/10/08

[San]

Me, too, San.  Laces on the front and no heel. 

Exactly Anna.

[San]

Wow!  Is she going to eat all that by herself? 

It looks like she could 

[texasmom]

http://joranvandersloot.blogspot.com/2005/12/joran-back-in-aruba-joran-van-der.html#113571470922915377

Anonymous said...
Het wordt tijd dat iemand de stop uit dat achterlijke land trekt. Die tien "slimme" amerikanen vinden wel een boot en blijven leven. De rest denkt dat het erbij hoort en verzuipt met dat achterlijke land.
(aldus Jules Deelder)

3:18 PM   

Anonymous said ...
It is time to stop someone from that backward country attracts. These ten "smart" amerikanen find a boat and continue to live. The rest think that it included in verzuipt with that backward country.
(Says Jules Deelder)

It s about time that someone pulls the plug (plug as in the one in a sink) out of that stupid country. The 10 smart americans will find a boat and survive. The rest will think that it's the way things are supposed to happen and will drown along with that backward country

thanks JE!

[dennisintn]

Wow!  Is she going to eat all that by herself? 

It looks like she could 

when they are together, they have to stay in the middle of the island to keep it from tilting over and capsizing.
dennisintn

[San]

Look at the arch in these two sneakers.  They look like the arch on the ones Joran is wearing.  Also look at the tip and back heel how they are dirty.  Sneakers do that.

[San]

What I am wondering is if this is really a picture from the night he met Natalee.

We thought it was originally but then it was retracted by Jossy because they said he had boots on.

[Tamikosmom]

I adhere to the theory if Natalee Holloway was taken out to sea it did not happen until the first week of June, 2005 and ... the location was not in the search area of the Persistence.  IMO.

However ... the images that reveal the contents of trap/cage ... which were received by the ROV ... do concern me.  Tim Miller was convinced that there was much more than fabric inside that cage and ... I am convinced that there is much more than fabric inside that cage.  Yet ... fabic was all the evidence which was accumulated and sent away to the FBI for forensic testing.

The involvement of Hans Mos ... Aruban authorities and ... the Aruban dive team makes this wannabe detective very suspicious.

I realize that there was a Persistence diver who went along with the Aruban dive team in the investigation of the trap/cage.  Who is Tim Trahan?  Is he an American?

I still cannot get past the fact that this huge sacrificial undertaking by the crew of the Persistence to locate the remains of Natalee Holloway was not conducted independent from those in the Aruban Law Enforcement and the Prosecutor's Office ... independent from those who I believe with all my heart are behind the coverup that has been preventing justice from prevailing for almost three years and ... have put a family through a H--- on Earth.

Janet

++++++++++++++


LINK: IMAGES OF TRAP/CAGE AND CONTENTS LOCATED BY THE PERSISTANCE

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2641.480


The search for Natalee Holloway
It's the story you haven't heard: the tale of two parents who, even now, willgo anywhere -- and endure anything -- to find answers.
TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

<snipped>

And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.
 
Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.

Chris Hansen: So, you're thinking-- you're thinking at this point--
Tim Miller: I’m thinking at this point, "Oh, my God, maybe we've got something. Maybe we've got something."

Could they have found her? Or was hope, perhaps, making them see what they wanted to see?

(on the boat)

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.

Tim Miller couldn't help but think that the date they first saw that  Trap -- Christmas Eve -- was a sign that maybe they were on to something  (on the boat)

Tim Miller: Maybe that was some of God's timing. I hope maybe Beth and Dave can have what they have been looking for two and half years.

Dave Holloway: I got a phone call from Tim.

Chris Hansen: And what'd he say?

Dave Holloway: He told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."

Chris Hansen: "We found her?"
 
Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure." He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--" he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta -- that -- that's it."

Chris Hansen: Did you think that was it?

Dave Holloway: I did.

And the Holloways weren't alone. The next day Aruban authorities, including chief prosecutor Hans Mos, came on board to see for themselves.

Tim Miller: We showed them what we had. I think they got real interested, too. We all thought we had something.

The Aruban authorities agreed the find looked promising. And finally, divers from the Persistence and the Aruban police set out to get an up-close look.
 
Tim Miller: Everything was going right. That morning there was actually a double rainbow when we got started.
 
Chris Hansen: A double rainbow. Not just one rainbow.
Another sign from above? A school of dolphins followed the Persistence as it sailed out to the target.

Tim Miller: I know I looked at somebody on the boat, and I said, "The-- the dolphins are going with us to go ahead and get Natalee."

(On the boat)

Tim Miller: We are at the spot. Ready to go down . .it is now only a matter of minutes before we know.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/
 

On Dec. 30, off the coast of Aruba, divers from the Aruban police force and the research vessel Persistence were about to make a crucial dive on a promising target in the search for Natalee Holloway.

The researchers had discovered a fish trap about 90 feet below the surface in almost the exact spot search expert Tim Miller had theorized Natalee’s body might be.
 
Team leader Tim Trahan suited up to join the Aruban police divers. As Tim Miller wished him well, the divers hit the water and the ROV was sent down to capture what would happen for everyone watching on board.

(On the boat)

Brandon: We have visual on divers and target.

Slowly the divers worked their way down to the trap. They had been instructed to give a thumbs up or thumbs down.  The atmosphere in the survey room was tense, and nerves were raw as Miller, the Aruban authorities and the crew of the Persistence waited for word of what exactly was in the trap. The divers approached the target and signaled above. And then...

(On the boat) No it's thumbs down. Negative, not it.

Crushing disappointment.

(On the boat) Tim Miller: Divers coming up right now. I don't know it looked as promising today as it did last night or before.

Miller: Nothing?

Trahan: No.

Chris Hansen: That had to be a crushing blow.

Tim Miller: It was a crushing blow.
 
Now Tim Miller had to deliver that same crushing blow to Natalee’s parents.

Chris Hansen: How hard is it for you to dial their numbers and tell them that this in fact is not the break in the case we-- we hoped for?

Tim Miller: Probably one of the hardest calls I ever made. Probably one of the hardest … probably should have never made the first one. But everything looked right at the time.
 
Natalee’s father was at home in Mississippi when the call came.

Chris Hansen: What was it like for you to, once again, have a setback?
 
Dave Holloway: That's probably about the time that-- the chest pains intensified to an extreme. I mean, how many times can I take this?

Beth Holloway: You know, it's a disappointment. But, you have to look at the magnitude and the sacrifices being made even to get to that point.

Chris Hansen: You didn't know these folks before this happened. What do they represent to you now?

Dave Holloway: They represent heroes to me.
 
To be sure there was no relevant evidence, material from the trap was given to the FBI.

<snipped

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/


Tim Miller
On the Record w/ Greta
February 27, 2008

Greta: Tim are they absolutely certain that this is not a piece of clothing belonging to Natalee Holloway?

MILLER: The report we got is the DNA that came back did not match Natalee's DNA and when we located that it looked like more than just a piece of cloth and I mean we, we felt as though we seen a skull in there. We got the Aruba authorities involved, they felt there was something in there, we dove on it and the thing is that's only 1 of over 170 targets out there we still have to investigate, so we've got a lot of work ahead of us.


Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba
Havenstraat 2
Oranjestad
Aruba
To All media
From The Public Prosecutor’s Office
Date February 26, 2008
Pages 1

The Aruban Police requested the FBI Laboratory to process the cloth, because the Laboratory already had a sample of the exact match of the type of material of Natalee Holloway’s blouse. The FBI Laboratory received that material on the 22nd of January 2008.

On the 25th of February 2008, the Prosecutors’ Office received the official report from the FBI Laboratory that showed that the two materials were not a match

[San]

WHERE DID EVERYONE GO.  IF YOU DON'T POST I WILL GET SLEEPY AND GO TO BED 

[Rob]

What I am wondering is if this is really a picture from the night he met Natalee.

We thought it was originally but then it was retracted by Jossy because they said he had boots on.

I've been thinking the same thing San.

[Rob]

WHERE DID EVERYONE GO.  IF YOU DON'T POST I WILL GET SLEEPY AND GO TO BED 

I was waiting for someone to say something interesting and you did, so I replied LOL 

[caesu]

From Telegraaf.nl.....Strange the goal that Mr.Castro set himself with..Since this is a murder case you would think his goal would be to catch the killers!
=========================
It would interview Thursday evening (local time) on integral TeleAruba be broadcast after a section already be seen on YouTube. "She dared not to be afraid that they would be sued," says Castro. According to him, the NOVA current affairs, and the program SBS6 The World Runs Through some interest shown. "My goal is to show that Van der Eem a questionable figure. He falls through the basket with what he said to me. "

The Public Prosecutor's Office (OM) on Aruba has now had contact with Castro. He has agreed that he will not release pictures that the investigation into the case could hamper Holloway. It also sends out who he is not Van der Eem mentioned as a culprit in the case.

*******, I think if Mr. Castro's goal would have been to catch the killer's, and this goal was known;  his show would have never been televised in Aruba.  I don't understand what the last bolded statement is intended to state.
 

last part says:

"The OM has been in contact with Castro. They agreed that Castro will not broadcast footage which could frustrate the investigation. Castro also agreed not to broadcast the name of the offender."

(offender = the person who dumped natalee in the ocean).

[San]

WHERE DID EVERYONE GO.  IF YOU DON'T POST I WILL GET SLEEPY AND GO TO BED 

I was waiting for someone to say something interesting and you did, so I replied LOL 

 

[Anna]

The photo of Joran up on the stage was shown to some of the MB kids for confirmation of ID later and they told them it was an old photo from when he was previously at C&C.

You may recall this by remembering that the MB girl upon looking at the photos commented that he was wearing the same shirt.

So that would lead us to believe that it is from a previous time to the night Natalee disappeared, the fact they already had this photo to show the MB kids.

.

[Anna]

.
Could the reason Castro agreed not to broadcast the name of the offender is because Patrick never gave one?

.

[San]

The photo of Joran up on the stage was shown to some of the MB kids for confirmation of ID later and they told them it was an old photo from when he was previously at C&C.

You may recall this by remembering that the MB girl upon looking at the photos commented that he was wearing the same shirt.

So that would lead us to believe that it is from a previous time to the night Natalee disappeared, the fact they already had this photo to show the MB kids.

.

Anna, who showed the picture to the MB kids?  They would have had to have been in the U.S. because most of them left the next morning.  Could it possibly have been a picture taken from one of their camera's?  Didn't someone collect all their cameras?

Geez I have a lot of questions.

[hotping]

From Telegraaf.nl.....Strange the goal that Mr.Castro set himself with..Since this is a murder case you would think his goal would be to catch the killers!
=========================
It would interview Thursday evening (local time) on integral TeleAruba be broadcast after a section already be seen on YouTube. "She dared not to be afraid that they would be sued," says Castro. According to him, the NOVA current affairs, and the program SBS6 The World Runs Through some interest shown. "My goal is to show that Van der Eem a questionable figure. He falls through the basket with what he said to me. "

The Public Prosecutor's Office (OM) on Aruba has now had contact with Castro. He has agreed that he will not release pictures that the investigation into the case could hamper Holloway. It also sends out who he is not Van der Eem mentioned as a culprit in the case.

*******, I think if Mr. Castro's goal would have been to catch the killer's, and this goal was known;  his show would have never been televised in Aruba.  I don't understand what the last bolded statement is intended to state.
 

last part says:

"The OM has been in contact with Castro. They agreed that Castro will not broadcast footage which could frustrate the investigation. Castro also agreed not to broadcast the name of the offender."

(offender = the person who dumped natalee in the ocean).

If this is true then maybe Mos really does care and is really trying to get the case together for prosecution.....maybe...hmmmm...but... I don't see how the name of the offender will not leak out. 

[Observer]

I adhere to the theory if Natalee Holloway was taken out to sea it did not happen until the first week of June, 2005 and .

Janet I agree with you and I started a thread on the white/PU landill..etc..Way too many coincidences with multiple witnesses..MO

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2671.msg360869#msg360869

[klaasend]

The photo of Joran up on the stage was shown to some of the MB kids for confirmation of ID later and they told them it was an old photo from when he was previously at C&C.

You may recall this by remembering that the MB girl upon looking at the photos commented that he was wearing the same shirt.

So that would lead us to believe that it is from a previous time to the night Natalee disappeared, the fact they already had this photo to show the MB kids.

.

Not only that it was in the Webshot site of Judy who was in Aruba in March 2005 (uploaded to webshots in April 2005) and called Joran "Stage Boy".  She took down the "stage" photo but left this one:

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/1331241519060086334vIwjuh

[Rob]

The photo of Joran up on the stage was shown to some of the MB kids for confirmation of ID later and they told them it was an old photo from when he was previously at C&C.

You may recall this by remembering that the MB girl upon looking at the photos commented that he was wearing the same shirt.

So that would lead us to believe that it is from a previous time to the night Natalee disappeared, the fact they already had this photo to show the MB kids.

.

Anna, who showed the picture to the MB kids?  They would have had to have been in the U.S. because most of them left the next morning.  Could it possibly have been a picture taken from one of their camera's?  Didn't someone collect all their cameras?

Geez I have a lot of questions.

I think Linda Allison collected the cameras.

[texasmom]

From Telegraaf.nl.....Strange the goal that Mr.Castro set himself with..Since this is a murder case you would think his goal would be to catch the killers!
=========================
It would interview Thursday evening (local time) on integral TeleAruba be broadcast after a section already be seen on YouTube. "She dared not to be afraid that they would be sued," says Castro. According to him, the NOVA current affairs, and the program SBS6 The World Runs Through some interest shown. "My goal is to show that Van der Eem a questionable figure. He falls through the basket with what he said to me. "

The Public Prosecutor's Office (OM) on Aruba has now had contact with Castro. He has agreed that he will not release pictures that the investigation into the case could hamper Holloway. It also sends out who he is not Van der Eem mentioned as a culprit in the case.

*******, I think if Mr. Castro's goal would have been to catch the killer's, and this goal was known;  his show would have never been televised in Aruba.  I don't understand what the last bolded statement is intended to state.
 

last part says:

"The OM has been in contact with Castro. They agreed that Castro will not broadcast footage which could frustrate the investigation. Castro also agreed not to broadcast the name of the offender."

(offender = the person who dumped natalee in the ocean).

Thanks Caesu!