Natalee Case Discussion #741 3/7 - 3/10/08

[Tater]

Pita,
  Can you get one of the guy on the roof at the fishermans hut? The video still won't load for me..

The video still works on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpxYEdXpjcw

Tot,  it won't load for me either.  I captured that picture this morning. 

Sowwy... I messed up!! 

This is the youtube-link to the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpxYEdXpjcw

Thankyou so much for finding this Jo-An ..I was beginning to think it had been snatched down and gone forever..I'm not sure if that is someone on the roof of the hut or not.It looks like a guy wearing a white ballcap but I just don't know..Odd that the refinery is viewed more than once...

[texasmom]

Thanks Janet!   

[truthseeker2]

No where did Observers posts go?....am I seeing things?

Maybe we should just move forward eh? How about a joke to lighten up the place..

A redneck was stopped by a game warden in Central Mississippi recently with two ice chests full of fish. He was leaving a cove well-known for its fishing.

The game warden asked the man, 'Do you have a license to catch those fish?'

'Naw, sir', replied the redneck. 'I ain't got none of them there licenses. You must understand, these here are my pet fish.'

'Pet fish?'

'Yeah. Every night, I take these here fish down to the lake and let 'em swim 'round for awhile. Then, when I whistle, they jump right back into these here ice chests and I take 'em home.'

'That's a bunch of hooey! Fish can't do that.'

The redneck looked at the warden for a moment and then said, 'It's the truth Mr. Government Man. I'll show ya. It really works.'

'O. K.', said the warden. 'I've got to see this!'

The redneck poured the fish into the lake and stood and waited.

After several minutes, the warden says, 'Well?'

'Well, what?', says the redneck.

The warden says, 'When are you going to call them back?'

'Call who back?'

'The FISH'!, replied the warden.

'What fish?', replied the redneck.

...

Moral of the story: We may not be as smart as some city slickers, but we ain't as dumb as some government employees.

Love it.  Just love it!   

[caesu]

So, how does this work in the NL when corruption is investigated among those in the justice department? Who runs such an investigation? Do the Dutch set up an independent prosecutor in a case of this type?

What kind of jurisdiction does the NL actually have over Aruba? Can the Dutch legally investigate Aruba's government for corruption? What is the process that would bring such an investigation forward?

the netherlands can't do much. aruba is a seperate country. only they share the same queen.

one thing is possible in article 43 of the statute of the kingdom.
rights, liberties, justice and sound governement is an  responsibility for the kingdom.

Artikel 43

   1. Elk der landen draagt zorg voor de verwezenlijking van de fundamentele menselijke rechten en vrijheden, de rechtszekerheid en de deugdelijkheid van het bestuur.
   2. Het waarborgen van deze rechten, vrijheden, rechtszekerheid en deugdelijkheid van bestuur is aangelegenheid van het Koninkrijk.

http://nl.wikisource.org/wiki/Statuut_voor_het_Koninkrijk_der_Nederlanden
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_for_the_Kingdom_of_the_Netherlands

council of ministers of the kingdom is the council of ministers of the netherlands including one minister plenipotentiary of aruba and one minister plenipotentiary of the antilles.

aruba can appeal a decision by the council of ministers of the kingdom at the higher court on curaçao.

also i don't think the netherlands sends much money to aruba.

earlier there was a major disagreement about the netherlands selling the mariott hotel (plant complex) and aruba didn't get a share of the money (or not enough)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Ministers_of_the_Kingdom_of_the_Netherlands

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_for_the_Kingdom_of_the_Netherlands

Article 43
1. Each of the Countries shall promote the realization of fundamental human rights
and freedoms, legal certainty and good governance.
2. The safeguarding of such rights and freedoms, legal certainty and good governance
shall be a Kingdom affair.

Charter for the Kingdom of the Netherlands (PDF)
http://www.minbzk.nl/aspx/download.aspx?file=/contents/pages/48365/thecharterforthekingdomofthenetherlands.pdf

This Article 43 is interesting. I wonder if there are any teeth to back it up?
What is necessary to start an investigation, under Art. 43, of Aruba's police and justice department by the Netherlands?

So, as I understand it, Aruba is only nominally a member of the Kingdom. They receive no money for aid. What does the Netherlands do to keep Aruba under their wing? Should Venezuela attack and try to claim Aruba, I assume the Dutch would defend the island?
Does Aruba do anything beneficial for the Kingdom?
Does the Queen ever visit Aruba?

in 1986 aruba got status aparte. and in 10 years (1996) this had to lead to independence.

but independence did not happen. article 58, 59, 60 are about that:
http://www.minbzk.nl/aspx/download.aspx?file=/contents/pages/48365/thecharterforthekingdomofthenetherlands.pdf (this is in english)

those articles can still go in effect, and then within a year aruba is independent.

In 1990, movement toward independence was postponed upon the request of Aruba's Prime Minister, Nelson O. Oduber. The article scheduling Aruba’s complete independence was rescinded in 1995, although the process can begin again after a referendum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aruba#The_move_towards_independence

the kingdom takes care of the defence of aruba with the coast guards, marines corps (3th battalion, 32th infantery company) and the royal marechaussee at Savaneta barracks.
that's maybe what aruba keeps from declaring indepence.
http://www.marine.nl/kustwacht/kwnaa/ KW NA&A
http://www.kustwacht.an/

but there is also a aruban militia (ARUMIL) at the same barracks, in case of independence that would be the army i guess.
http://www.savariba.com/ArubaanseMilitie.html

also they can't fill justice department / OM  / police with just arubans.
so they need contract dutchies for that like Mos / Janssen / van Straten / Kruimel / Nico Jörg.

more about about the article 43 is in this book:
http://www.managementboek.nl/boek/9789014072128/statuut_voor_het_koninkrijk_der_nederlanden_m_m_timmers

i am reading it now. very difficult law stuff.
i want to know if article 43 ever has been used in the past.

i don't honestly don't know what aruba does beneficial for the kingdom
[sarcasm]apart from a holiday location for dutch officials and a drugs transport line.[/sarcasm]

latest visit of the queen to aruba was november 2006.

(oduber & queen with blue hat)
http://www.planet.nl/planet/show/id=62967/contentid=775078/sc=8fb98f

[Tamikosmom]

Logic dictates ... IF there is an agenda within the so-called investigation to distance Lorenzo van Rijn from implication in the Natalee Holloway case ... Hans Mos' to Dave Holloway would conform accordingly.

Dave Holloway also had Dennis Jacobs inform him that Lorenzo had no connection to the Natalee Holloway case.  I do believe that Monkeys and Dave Holloway are in agreement ... DENNIS JACOB IS A PARTICIPANT IN THE COVERUP.

Janet

++++++++++++

Dave Holloway
Corruption in Paradise

Page 183: I asked Jacobs to print me out another copy of my statement, and Art Wood came walking in.  He noticed a computer printout on the wall about Natalee’s case.  It was a flowchart with all of the suspects and interested parties on it.  He noticed that one person who we thought was a suspect, Lorenzo van Rijn, rumoured to be Joran’s half brother, was not on it.  We had been told that he might have had some connection to Natalee’s disappearance.  He is supposedly known on the island by the nickname Xtacy.   Art was trying to figure out how the flowchart worked, and he noticed that some of the names were significantly larger than others.  He asked Jacobs what that symbolized, and Jacobs responded that it was just the way the computer printed it out.  Art asked him where Lorenzo was, and Jacobs said that Lorenzo had nothing to do with Natalee’s case, so he doesn’t have to be on the flow chart.   We left, and Art commented on Jacobs’ reaction.  There is talk in Aruba that Lorenzo is a known drug dealer who lives in a compound on the island with a remote-controlled sliding gate, television monitors, and razor wire all around the top of the fence.  Apparently, you cannot get into that place.  It looks like a prison camp.  Since Lorenzo is suppose to be related to Joran, if the boys got drugs to give Natalee, they may have gotten them from him.


Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER
June 18, 2006

MANSUR:  I do know what our reporters have been able to find, Lorenzo is a half brother of Joran. He has a boat. He lives in a secluded section of the island, very close to Joran. I don't know if he was questioned, but people mention his name quite often in regard to this case.
http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/index.php?post_year=2006&post_month=06&post_day=18

[Observer]

So, as I understand it, Aruba is only nominally a member of the Kingdom. They receive no money for aid. What does the Netherlands do to keep Aruba under their wing? Should Venezuela attack and try to claim Aruba, I assume the Dutch would defend the island?
Does Aruba do anything beneficial for the Kingdom?
Does the Queen ever visit Aruba?

Here's my problem with the Dutch saying they are powerless to do anything about it it. Jannsen, Van der Straten, Wit, Simid and others all came from Holland to work there. Mans Mos is from Holland as is Dop Kruimel. Joran, Guido, the Gottenbos, Jannsen and others have fled to Holland for safety.

The two governments are intertwined. Holland provides government services to Aruba. All the judges in Aruba and Coracacao and Binnaire are provided by Holland. Somebody has to take responsibility and it seems to me the country of origin is a good place to start.

This crime and the ensuing cover-up were not commited by a bunch of Arubans.

Your right Dayhiker! Van Der Sloot,Van Der Straten and others were hired by the Dutch and in Van Der Stratens case he worked for the Dutch Police and was hired by David Dick the Minister of Justice in the Antilles. That was after he sabataged Natalee's case in Aruba for his good friend Paul VDS. We know the KLPD took over this case in August 2006,and it seems like we aren't any closer to the truth then we were in June 2005. I think the recent words of Hans Mos tell the story as well.
===========================================
www.amigoe.com/english/ on February 24


Bonaire still without corps leader

KRALENDIJK – Since Jan van Straten left late January, Bonaire is still without a chief of police.  His contract ran out per February 1.  Justice-minister David Dick (PAR) regrets the fact that the Netherlands didn’t cooperate and let Van der Straten stay a little longer until a new chief of police was appointed.

Van der Straten works for the Dutch police and they decided that he had to go back. The council of ministers would decide on a new chief of police this month in anticipation of the application committee. 
------------------------------

Amigoe.com, 20 julie 2005
Van der Straten sounded for police Bonaire(Translation)

Friday is the last working day of Commissioner Jan van der Straten. The Police confirmed that he was approached by the Antillean Justice Minister David Dick (PAR) to Bonaire to work. Or he addresses this request van der Straten not say. "I go to talk to him."
Van der Straten remain optimistic about solving the case of missing American. "I still assume that the matter is resolved."

http://bonaire.web-log.nl/bonaire/2005/07/van_der_straten.html

[bleachedblack]

Pet cemetery in foreground.....down by baby beach.

[klaasend]

Caesu - thanks for that background info on the NL and Aruba.

[Tater]

latest visit of the queen to aruba was november 2006.

(oduber & queen with blue hat)
http://www.planet.nl/planet/show/id=62967/contentid=775078/sc=8fb98f
[/quote]

I half expect to hear her say,"Hey ya'll"...Looks like Paula Dean all dressed up to me...

[Jo-An]

Almost midnight over here, I'm off to bed.
You guys over on the other side of the pond enjoy the rest of your Saturday!

[Tater]

Almost midnight over here, I'm off to bed.
You guys over on the other side of the pond enjoy the rest of your Saturday!

Sweetest dreams to you...

[Blonde]

Oh here is one.......******* sometimes doesn't your boil just boil?

Yes..Especially when someone lies about me saying I am hacking into email accounts and other mean lies trying to get me kicked off this message board.

******* your very smart and you might be getting too close to some truth so someone wants to see you go.

[Blue Moon]

So, as I understand it, Aruba is only nominally a member of the Kingdom. They receive no money for aid. What does the Netherlands do to keep Aruba under their wing? Should Venezuela attack and try to claim Aruba, I assume the Dutch would defend the island?
Does Aruba do anything beneficial for the Kingdom?
Does the Queen ever visit Aruba?

Here's my problem with the Dutch saying they are powerless to do anything about it it. Jannsen, Van der Straten, Wit, Simid and others all came from Holland to work there. Mans Mos is from Holland as is Dop Kruimel. Joran, Guido, the Gottenbos, Jannsen and others have fled to Holland for safety.

The two governments are intertwined. Holland provides government services to Aruba. All the judges in Aruba and Coracacao and Binnaire are provided by Holland. Somebody has to take responsibility and it seems to me the country of origin is a good place to start.

This crime and the ensuing cover-up were not commited by a bunch of Arubans.

Day, thanks, this is exactly what I have been thinking.  Why can they NOT do anything to the very officials they have appointed and sent to Aruba.  The cover up was successful because of the appointments made by the NL.  If they appoint them they should be able to investigate their goings on.  If not, no wonder this case has not been solved.

[Tamikosmom]

Thanks Janet!   

You are welcome texasmom.

Tot ... you and I share a common sense of humor.  I shared your "fish tale" with hubby ... he laughed a little but ... I am still laughing.  He just rolls his eyes and ... shakes his head.

Have a good evening Monkeys.  We are off to dinner and then a movie with friends.  The movie is called "Berlin Girl" ... I think that is what it is called.  I hope it is good.  It seems that good movies are few and far between.

Janet
3:10 PM

[texasmom]

Almost midnight over here, I'm off to bed.
You guys over on the other side of the pond enjoy the rest of your Saturday!

Goodnight Jo-An, and Thanks!

[Bladerunner]

MOS: And this decision to re-arrest these three suspects was a decision taken by 10 lawyers, by 10 lawyers sitting around a table (INAUDIBLE) whole afternoon, being presented the new material.


Isn't about time we STOP giving Mos the benefit of the doubt? I'm with you TMOM, if one objectively reads what you have posted along with everything else Mos has said and not done, one can only conclude that he is either mentally handicapped, or, that he is complicit in the cover-up. This case is not complicated and the coverup is clear as friggin day.

Mos has not put anyone's feet to the fire in this matter and he sure as hell is not coming down hard on the suspects. It's a clear cut case of going through the motions. He is toying with people's emotions crying wolf about new evidence and dancing with the devil here.

I have no respect for him and want him to prove me/us wrong in this regard.

[klaasend]

Nite Jo-An

Nite Janet - have a good time at the movies!

[vms]

Thanks Janet!   

You are welcome texasmom.

Tot ... you and I share a common sense of humor.  I shared your "fish tale" with hubby ... he laughed a little but ... I am still laughing.  He just rolls his eyes and ... shakes his head.

Have a good evening Monkeys.  We are off to dinner and then a movie with friends.  The movie is called "Berlin Girl" ... I think that is what it is called.  I hope it is good.  It seems that good movies are few and far between.

Janet
3:10 PM

"The Other Boleyn Girl"...maybe? If so, please report back, Janet. I want to see that movie.

Have fun!

[caesu]

So, as I understand it, Aruba is only nominally a member of the Kingdom. They receive no money for aid. What does the Netherlands do to keep Aruba under their wing? Should Venezuela attack and try to claim Aruba, I assume the Dutch would defend the island?
Does Aruba do anything beneficial for the Kingdom?
Does the Queen ever visit Aruba?

Here's my problem with the Dutch saying they are powerless to do anything about it it. Jannsen, Van der Straten, Wit, Simid and others all came from Holland to work there. Mans Mos is from Holland as is Dop Kruimel. Joran, Guido, the Gottenbos, Jannsen and others have fled to Holland for safety.

The two governments are intertwined. Holland provides government services to Aruba. All the judges in Aruba and Coracacao and Binnaire are provided by Holland. Somebody has to take responsibility and it seems to me the country of origin is a good place to start.

This crime and the ensuing cover-up were not commited by a bunch of Arubans.

yes that's the colonial attitude from the netherlands towards aruba / antilles.
very few dutchies realize this i think.
now everyone blames one other and nothing gets done.

http://www.ua.aw/ua/getPage/page/ABOUT_UA.html
there is a faculty of law.
are the students moving to the netherlands after graduating for better money???
i would think rudy croes prefers a justice department, OM, police force full of arubans, not dutchies??

the netherlands is hesitant to bring up corruption on antilles / aruba because they know it would incriminate themselves too.

but it is getting attention thanks to hero brinkman and the NOVA series about corruption.
the NOVA series was to check if hero brinkman was right. and it seems he was.
http://sxmprivateeye.com/taxonomy/term/4 (english blog sint maarten)

part 3 of the NOVA series was interesting. about bonaire / st. maarten.

about political parties bribing voters. that's is common. nobody denies this even the officials.
the st. maarten part was for a large part in english, that's the main language there.
the officials didn't like PM balkenende bringing up corruption in his visit last month.
but others were thankful that he brought it up.

i will post a link as soon as it is online.

[Tamikosmom]

Thanks Janet!   

You are welcome texasmom.

Tot ... you and I share a common sense of humor.  I shared your "fish tale" with hubby ... he laughed a little but ... I am still laughing.  He just rolls his eyes and ... shakes his head.

Have a good evening Monkeys.  We are off to dinner and then a movie with friends.  The movie is called "Berlin Girl" ... I think that is what it is called.  I hope it is good.  It seems that good movies are few and far between.

Janet
3:10 PM

"The Other Boleyn Girl"...maybe? If so, please report back, Janet. I want to see that movie.

Have fun!

 

Thanks vms.  I just said what I heard.  It was our friends' turn to choose the movie.  I guess I do not hear too good.

Janet