Natalee Case Discussion #741 3/7 - 3/10/08

[ldstlou]

Back from the St Louis Travel Show...what a terrific experience!! I LOVED it and encourage everyone who has an opportunity to participate in one to do so, it was incredibly heart warming the support and prayers and positive feedback we received!!!

[JE]

From PearlinUSA at BFN -

Dutch article talking about TV diagnosing of Joran:

At seeing the undercoverbeelden of Joran of of the ditch, descended at a lot of experts the alarm bell Len. , All they saw psychiatrists, psychologists, dermatologen, lawyers and pokeraars immediately what had something up him. And that is rather what. To get rid of the overview not entirely, lijstje.

 1. According to slab baker, psychologist and columnist, Joran are psychopatic, a psychopaat. Someone who shows derogatory behaviour by an abnormal character and therefore maintain itself effort has to in the society. According to baker this diagnosis moreover also applies to father of of the ditch.

 2. Joran have an antisocial life style. He has a instrumentele relation with an others and lack of empathy, weet psychologe Corine the rider

3. He has deadly prostaatvocht. According to seriousness Stolz hoogleraar dermatologie, then she touched Natalee in an asthmatic shock came into contact with Joran's ` body juices.

4. Are lawyer Bert the Rooij typify Joran as a serial liar. The man explained himself when to also no longer know he must believe its customer.

 5. Joran are gok - drugs - and sex-addicted according to Dick Trubendorffer, ervaringsdeskundige and director of an addiction clinic.

 6. Bethany Marshall, an American psychoanalist, recognises sociopaat in Joran. Someone without responsibility who can contract no contacts with others.

 7. Professional pokerspeler Rolf Slotboom has exhaustively studied the body language of Joran and can by means of its rood walked towards oortjes observe that Joran are a real bluffer.

 Sanne van Ettinger at  http://www.revu.nl/10670

1. Volgens Bram Bakker, psycholoog en columnist, is Joran psychopathisch, een psychopaat. Iemand die door een abnormaal karakter afwijkend gedrag vertoont en dus moeite heeft om zich in de samenleving te handhaven. Volgens Bakker geldt deze diagnose overigens ook voor vader Van der Sloot.

1. According to bram bakker, psycologist and columnist: Joran is a psychopath. Someone who because of an abnormal character displays deviant behaviour and has problems to cope in society. Same diagnosis goes for Paul VDS

2. Joran heeft een antisociale levensstijl. Hij heeft een instrumentele relatie met anderen en een gebrek aan empathie, weet psychologe Corine de Ruiter

2. Joran has an antisocial lifestyle. He has an instrumental ralation with others and lacks empathy, according to psychologist corine de ruyter

3. Hij heeft dodelijk prostaatvocht. Volgens Ernst Stolz hoogleraar dermatologie, raakte Natalee in een astmatische shock toen ze in aanraking kwam met Joran’s ‘lichaamssappen’.

3. He has deadly prostate fluids. According to Ernst Stolz Proffesor of dermatology, Natalee went into astmatic shock when introduced to Jorans bodily fluids

4. Zijn advocaat Bert de Rooij typeert Joran als een serieleugenaar. De man verklaard zelf ook niet meer te weten wanneer hij zijn cliënt moet geloven.

4. His lawyer Bert de rooij says he is a serial liar. De Rooij declares that he doen't know when to believe his client anymore

5. Joran is gok- drugs- en seksverslaafd volgens Dick Trubendorffer, ervaringsdeskundige en directeur van een verslavingskliniek.

5. Joran is a sex drugs and gambling addict according to Dick Trubendorffer, behavioral expert and director of an addiction clinic

6. Bethany Marshall, een Amerikaanse psychoanalyticus, herkent in Joran een sociopaat. Iemand zonder verantwoordelijkheidsgevoel die geen contacten met anderen kan aangaan.

6. Bethany Marshall, an American psychoanalytic recognizes in Joran a sociopath. A person void of resposability and unable to have relations with others

7. Professioneel pokerspeler Rolf Slotboom heeft de lichaamstaal van Joran uitvoerig bestudeerd en kan aan de hand van zijn rood aangelopen oortjes constateren dat Joran een echte bluffer is.

7. Professional poker player Rolf Slotboom studied jorans bodylanguage in detail and can judge by his redened ears that joran is a real bluffer

[katrien]

3. He has deadly prostaatvocht. According to seriousness Stolz hoogleraar dermatologie, then she touched Natalee in an asthmatic shock came into contact with Joran's ` body juices.

   

[klaasend]

Back from the St Louis Travel Show...what a terrific experience!! I LOVED it and encourage everyone who has an opportunity to participate in one to do so, it was incredibly heart warming the support and prayers and positive feedback we received!!!

Very cool!  I hear you guys had a large group too!  What a great job!

[WhiskeyGirl]

Thanks JE. 

[ldstlou]

Back from the St Louis Travel Show...what a terrific experience!! I LOVED it and encourage everyone who has an opportunity to participate in one to do so, it was incredibly heart warming the support and prayers and positive feedback we received!!!

Very cool!  I hear you guys had a large group too!  What a great job!

It was a lot of fun...like musical chairs as much as they moved us around!!! lol But it all worked out for the better!!

[texasmom]

Back from the St Louis Travel Show...what a terrific experience!! I LOVED it and encourage everyone who has an opportunity to participate in one to do so, it was incredibly heart warming the support and prayers and positive feedback we received!!!

   
Thanks for all your hard work!  We're proud of all of you!

[bleachedblack]

From PearlinUSA at BFN -

Dutch article talking about TV diagnosing of Joran:

At seeing the undercoverbeelden of Joran of of the ditch, descended at a lot of experts the alarm bell Len. , All they saw psychiatrists, psychologists, dermatologen, lawyers and pokeraars immediately what had something up him. And that is rather what. To get rid of the overview not entirely, lijstje.

 1. According to slab baker, psychologist and columnist, Joran are psychopatic, a psychopaat. Someone who shows derogatory behaviour by an abnormal character and therefore maintain itself effort has to in the society. According to baker this diagnosis moreover also applies to father of of the ditch.

 2. Joran have an antisocial life style. He has a instrumentele relation with an others and lack of empathy, weet psychologe Corine the rider

3. He has deadly prostaatvocht. According to seriousness Stolz hoogleraar dermatologie, then she touched Natalee in an asthmatic shock came into contact with Joran's ` body juices.

4. Are lawyer Bert the Rooij typify Joran as a serial liar. The man explained himself when to also no longer know he must believe its customer.

 5. Joran are gok - drugs - and sex-addicted according to Dick Trubendorffer, ervaringsdeskundige and director of an addiction clinic.

 6. Bethany Marshall, an American psychoanalist, recognises sociopaat in Joran. Someone without responsibility who can contract no contacts with others.

 7. Professional pokerspeler Rolf Slotboom has exhaustively studied the body language of Joran and can by means of its rood walked towards oortjes observe that Joran are a real bluffer.

 Sanne van Ettinger at  http://www.revu.nl/10670

Joran are psychopatic, a psychopaat.
Joran is a psychopath.

[Observer]

Back from the St Louis Travel Show...what a terrific experience!! I LOVED it and encourage everyone who has an opportunity to participate in one to do so, it was incredibly heart warming the support and prayers and positive feedback we received!!!

I can feel the love for Natalee all the way here in Boston..Did you get a chance to take any pictures? Klaas loves the pictures! 

[JE]

Thanks JE. 

YW

[caesu]

for all dutch posters caesu, Jo-an, katrien, flipper etc
Maybe you all have seen this
http://renevannie.com/inhoud/kritisch/_kritisch2005.html
it s a website by rene van nie (father of nada van Nie) a dutch writer cinematographer
He lives in aruba has a coffeeshop there (the kind where they serve coffee) which apparently is close to deepaks internet cafe and he has lots of info in the link.
Almost on a day to day basis from when the case started he posts updates on it. Maybe we could bring some relevant info over here?
I ve been reading some but the layout gives me a headache. He hammers on the corruption of all the, in his eyes not very talented judges and prosecuters holland keeps sending to aruba.

One of his post is about june 17th when PVDS was taken in for a 4 hour investigation

Overigens zijn vader, een man die de regels van het recht moet volgen en toepassen vindt het
geen enkel probleem dat zijn zoon op 17jarige leeftijd auto rijdt -dus niet verzekerd is want hij heeft geen rijbewijs-
en nachtenlang mag zitten gokken in casino's waar je ook 18 jaar voor moet zijn. Vader gaat er dus heel arrogant van uit dat als daar problemen van komen hij dat 'wel even regelt'. Ik vind dat die man - ook al heeft hij niets gedaan - van het eiland moet worden gezet.

His father, a man who is supposed to abide the law sees no problem in his 17 year old son driving a car, not insured since he has no drivers licence, or spending nights gambling in casino's that require one to be 18. Father arrogantly assumes that if problems arise he will take care of them. I believ that that man even if he didn't do anything should be kicked of the island

and...

Overigens zijn er overhuis bij de v.d.Sloten 'vrienden' waarvan de de man een hoge piet is bij het Nederlandse O.M. Dat mag ook niet.
Dat schept een heel verkeerd beeld. Is dit dan opnieuw arrogantie van een andere justitie man? Waar halen die knakker toch de lef vandaan -sommige rechters en ander ongeregeld in dit geval - zich een soort van boven de wet te stellen.

Also there are some "friends" staying at the sloot house the husband is a big shot in the dutch OM. THat is not allowed. That puts forward a wrong image. Is this again the arrogance of the other justice man? Where do these guys get the nerve- some judges and other trash in this case- to put themselves above the law.

it tried to read that blog. but the text size gives me a headache.
he rants on about everything related to aruban politics / justice.

he also made more recent blogs:
http://www.renevannie.com/inhoud/kritisch/_kritisch.html

some of it is worth reading.
some of it is just wild ranting.

BURGEROORLOG
IK VOORZIE GROTE PROBLEMEN VOOR 2008. MENSEN VERDIENEN HIER EEN MINIMUM LOON VAN BRUTO 1400 GULDEN PER MAAND EN DE PRIJZEN ZIJN RONDOM 20% GESTEGEN. ALS COMPENSATIE KRIJGEN ZE EEN LOONBELASTING VERLAGING VAN 3% OF ZO. EN DAT GAAT DUS NIET SAMEN. HET BEGINT LANGZAAM TOT DE MENSEN DOOR TE DRINGEN. MAAR DE BOEL LOOPT VAST, DAT IS ZEKER. IK HOU MIJN HART VAST.

burgeroorlog = civil war

[dennisintn]

O.T.

this is dutch prime minister Balkenende:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tadlDvcO_YQ

 

much more informative, much less maddening than most of the press conferences we've seen come out of aruban spokesmen.
dennisintn

[JE]

it tried to read that blog. but the text size gives me a headache.
he rants on about everything related to aruban politics / justice.

he also made more recent blogs:
http://www.renevannie.com/inhoud/kritisch/_kritisch.html

some of it is worth reading.
some of it is just wild ranting.

BURGEROORLOG
IK VOORZIE GROTE PROBLEMEN VOOR 2008. MENSEN VERDIENEN HIER EEN MINIMUM LOON VAN BRUTO 1400 GULDEN PER MAAND EN DE PRIJZEN ZIJN RONDOM 20% GESTEGEN. ALS COMPENSATIE KRIJGEN ZE EEN LOONBELASTING VERLAGING VAN 3% OF ZO. EN DAT GAAT DUS NIET SAMEN. HET BEGINT LANGZAAM TOT DE MENSEN DOOR TE DRINGEN. MAAR DE BOEL LOOPT VAST, DAT IS ZEKER. IK HOU MIJN HART VAST.

burgeroorlog = civil war

True some rants some facts. Timeline's interesting from an aruban perspective.

[Observer]

Rene van nie does have some good stuff on that site like his letter to and from Theresa Croes as well as some of his posts like the arrest of GVC and emails he received..

[Anna]

LD and Sunny,

Thanks for the update and for doing this for Natalee.  If there is a link to the local Fox coverage, be sure to post that as well!

You had a wonderful turnout thanks to getting so organized beforehand!  Great job!

Now get warm and drink lots of Hot Chocolate!

.

[klaasend]

According to Glenda at RU, Poentje is supposed the air the rest of his video on TeleCuracao tonight:

http://www.telecuracao.com/

But it looks like you have to register to the tune of $29 to view 

[bluwaters]

Thanks Klaas...re:front page edits--I agree.

Thought I would post this while it is slow...

High life in Holland under threatBy our political correspondent Rutger van Santen*

07-03-2008

For over 30 years, the Netherlands has had the most liberal drugs policy in the world. But all that is about to change. After this week's parliamentary debate on the drugs issue, it looks like even the Nethferlands' world-famous 'coffee shops' may not escape the present government's reforms.

During the debate, the government presented plans to ban 'grow shops', which sell seed and equipment for cultivating marijuana at home. Justice Minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin promised new legislation within a matter of months aimed at banning "everything that facilitates the domestic cultivation of cannabis" and imposing strict penalties on offenders.

Curtains for coffee shops?
A majority of MPs support the minister's efforts to take a much tougher line on the use, cultivation and sale of drugs. The spokesman for the main coalition party, the Christian Democrats, even advocated closing down the Netherlands' world famous coffee shops, where people can purchase a limited amount of soft drugs without facing legal sanctions. This proposal may also be able to count on a parliamentary majority.

This wind of change has to do with the fact that there are now far more conservatives among the people's representatives in the Netherlands than there have been for many a year. The coalition government currently running the country consists of three parties: the Christian Democrats, Labour and junior partner the Christian Union.

It is Labour's position that has undergone the biggest shift. Much to the vexation of the progressive opposition parties, Labour MPs have tend to vote along the same lines as their coalition partners since coming to power. And given that the opposition also includes the conservative VVD and the far right Freedom Party, both of which take a prohibitive stance on drugs, this is the first time in years that a real change in policy stands a chance of being implemented.

Success story
The left-wing opposition parties describe the changes as disastrous. For although the Dutch approach to drugs has been the target of much criticism from the rest of the world, its supporters within the Netherlands are quick to point out that it has been a shining success story. For years, the Netherlands has been at the very top of the rankings when it comes to the lowest number of drug-related deaths.

Experts say this is mainly due to the transparency of the Dutch system, the strict dividing line between hard drugs and soft drugs and the outstanding care for addicts. However, the current government is keen to jettison this liberal approach because of its own anti-drugs beliefs and because it is thought to contravene European regulations. Ironically, the proposed changes come at a time when an increasing number of governments are gradually coming round to the idea of following the Dutch example, precisely because it has been such a success.

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/region/netherlands/080307-dutch-drugs

Thanks Nut for this article.
Do the Conservatives think that the pot smokers are going to quit? This kind of legislation is a real boon to the illegal drug trade.
I am not saying that there is nothing wrong with marijuana, simply noting that the Netherlands has a good record on handling addiction.
It is foolish to change that. Why  turn good citizens into criminals?
Prohibition of alcohol did not work in the USA, and I doubt if this proposed prohibition will work in the Netherlands.
The late, great conservative, William F. Buckley, fully supported decriminalization of marijuana in the US. It makes perfect sense to me. This is the last thing that the drug cartels want to see happen. As it stands, they control the crop, distribution, street value,and pocket the profits of their illegal trade, all the while ruthlessly and lawlessly handling "problem" personnel.
If legalized in the US, then the government could grow, regulate, distribute, set prices, tax, and reap the profits. Our extremely crowded jails would find relief if marijuana offenders were not taking up space that could be better utilized for violent criminals.
JMHO

I question the motivation of these conservative Dutch MPs. What are they hoping to accomplish? 

Please understand that I am not supporting the use of marijuana. I am supporting the continued legality of those who chose to use it and I hope that the Netherlands does not take a step backwards in curtailing their citizens' civil liberties.

*puts on monkey armour and scurries up a coconut tree*

[mrs. red]

LD and Sunny,

Thanks for the update and for doing this for Natalee.  If there is a link to the local Fox coverage, be sure to post that as well!

You had a wonderful turnout thanks to getting so organized beforehand!  Great job!

Now get warm and drink lots of Hot Chocolate!

.

Anna that Hot Chocolate sounds good.... that's a great idea! 

[ldstlou]

LD and Sunny,

Thanks for the update and for doing this for Natalee.  If there is a link to the local Fox coverage, be sure to post that as well!

You had a wonderful turnout thanks to getting so organized beforehand!  Great job!

Now get warm and drink lots of Hot Chocolate!

.

Anna that Hot Chocolate sounds good.... that's a great idea! 

that does sound good!! We have some with marshmellows too!!
Thanks all...and GO HOUSTON!!!!!!
 

[Bearlyhere]

According to international source
Paul van der Sloot gave Joran quite the gift
DIARIO Aruba
11/11/2005

ORANJESTAD(AAN): Thursday, DIARIO received a call from a contact who was in Holland, about the case of Natalee Holloway, who was following Joran van der Sloot’s steps.

This person told DIARIO that he was in Holland last month, where he was staying for a few months.

He said that Joran was staying in a house a little outside Arnhem with his father and is studying at Hoge School Arnhem.

The person says Joran is living a life like the majority of students in Holland do, where he goes to school, studies and goes out until late at night.

Joran met a girl who he didn’t know was working for a  for a known magazine and went out to drink with her and tried to seduce her.

The girl was trying to find as much information as possible, for an article on which she was working.

One of the times that Joran went out with the girl, he showed her a portable DVD player that he got as a gift from his mother and father after he got out of KIA.

What surprises that girl was when Joran showed a movie that his father gave him as a gift.

The movie he showed the girl was a pornographic one and he said his father gave it to him, so that he wouldn’t fall asleep in class at school.

According to the Dutch reporter, Joran went to see a few football matches in Holland with his father and they also went to England to see a Manchester United match.

The intention was also for them to go to an East European country to see a Champions League match.

According to DIARIO’s contact who was in Holland, Joran van der Sloot was planning last month to go live with his two friends in student housing, close to the school he’s attending and he will come to Aruba to vacation in Easter Christmas, where he will come see his mother again who hasn’t gone to Holland.

[translated by Getagrip]

// posted by Getagrip @ 11/11/2005 10:58:00 AM   
G o o g l e's cache of http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005_11_06_archive.html

 

It can be assumed that Joran's younger brothers are receiving the same message from their father ... their role model ... the message which implies that women/girls are not worthy of respect.

Janet

Unfortunately, I agree with you.

I was looking at the zorpia pictures last night (regular group pictures--small and large groups, of the pimps.  In each picture when there was a younger child, you could see the admiration on the child's face as the imitated posing just like a pimp.  Very sad, indeed.