Natalee Case Discussion #741 3/7 - 3/10/08

[Bearlyhere]

From PearlinUSA at BFN -

Dutch article talking about TV diagnosing of Joran:

<snip>

 5. Joran are gok - drugs - and sex-addicted according to Dick Trubendorffer, ervaringsdeskundige and director of an addiction clinic.
 6. Bethany Marshall, an American psychoanalist, recognises sociopaat in Joran. Someone without responsibility who can contract no contacts with others.

 7. Professional pokerspeler Rolf Slotboom has exhaustively studied the body language of Joran and can by means of its rood walked towards oortjes observe that Joran are a real bluffer.

 Sanne van Ettinger at  http://www.revu.nl/10670

<snip>

5. Joran is gok- drugs- en seksverslaafd volgens Dick Trubendorffer, ervaringsdeskundige en directeur van een verslavingskliniek.

5. Joran is a sex drugs and gambling addict according to Dick Trubendorffer, behavioral expert and director of an addiction clinic
6. Bethany Marshall, een Amerikaanse psychoanalyticus, herkent in Joran een sociopaat. Iemand zonder verantwoordelijkheidsgevoel die geen contacten met anderen kan aangaan.

6. Bethany Marshall, an American psychoanalytic recognizes in Joran a sociopath. A person void of resposability and unable to have relations with others

7. Professioneel pokerspeler Rolf Slotboom heeft de lichaamstaal van Joran uitvoerig bestudeerd en kan aan de hand van zijn rood aangelopen oortjes constateren dat Joran een echte bluffer is.

7. Professional poker player Rolf Slotboom studied jorans bodylanguage in detail and can judge by his redened ears that joran is a real bluffer

I can't agree with this, I think it should read:

5. Joran is a sex, drugs, alcohol, and gambling addict.

[Magnolia]

From PearlinUSA at BFN -

Dutch article talking about TV diagnosing of Joran:

<snip>

 5. Joran are gok - drugs - and sex-addicted according to Dick Trubendorffer, ervaringsdeskundige and director of an addiction clinic.
 6. Bethany Marshall, an American psychoanalist, recognises sociopaat in Joran. Someone without responsibility who can contract no contacts with others.

 7. Professional pokerspeler Rolf Slotboom has exhaustively studied the body language of Joran and can by means of its rood walked towards oortjes observe that Joran are a real bluffer.

 Sanne van Ettinger at  http://www.revu.nl/10670

<snip>

5. Joran is gok- drugs- en seksverslaafd volgens Dick Trubendorffer, ervaringsdeskundige en directeur van een verslavingskliniek.

5. Joran is a sex drugs and gambling addict according to Dick Trubendorffer, behavioral expert and director of an addiction clinic
6. Bethany Marshall, een Amerikaanse psychoanalyticus, herkent in Joran een sociopaat. Iemand zonder verantwoordelijkheidsgevoel die geen contacten met anderen kan aangaan.

6. Bethany Marshall, an American psychoanalytic recognizes in Joran a sociopath. A person void of resposability and unable to have relations with others

7. Professioneel pokerspeler Rolf Slotboom heeft de lichaamstaal van Joran uitvoerig bestudeerd en kan aan de hand van zijn rood aangelopen oortjes constateren dat Joran een echte bluffer is.

7. Professional poker player Rolf Slotboom studied jorans bodylanguage in detail and can judge by his redened ears that joran is a real bluffer

I can't agree with this, I think it should read:

5. Joran is a sex, drugs, alcohol, and gambling addict.

And according to the panel of judges. a habitual liar.

[JE]

From PearlinUSA at BFN -


7. Professioneel pokerspeler Rolf Slotboom heeft de lichaamstaal van Joran uitvoerig bestudeerd en kan aan de hand van zijn rood aangelopen oortjes constateren dat Joran een echte bluffer is.

7. Professional poker player Rolf Slotboom studied jorans bodylanguage in detail and can judge by his redened ears that joran is a real bluffer

I can't agree with this, I think it should read:

5. Joran is a sex, drugs, alcohol, and gambling addict.

OMG ithink Rolf Slotboom is right!!!!!

[Ono]

Has anyone ever heard of opposite day?

It is opposite day in Aruba everyday with this investigation.
When honest investigators (not police), journalists, family members are on the wrong track, Aruba lets them search away, often assisting hand in hand. Conversely, when honest investigators (not police), journalists, family members are on the right track, Aruba does everything in its power to block searches, require permits, start fires (literally), spread mis-information, etc...

For all we know, Natalee's body could have been handed over to the Aruban government, or a few corrupt officials (VanderStraaten, Jacobs), taken to a government building, and a disposal methodically planned in conjunction with a well concocted story to distance the truth surrounding that evening. Why would they have to run around the island hiding anything? Those investigating the crime were covering the crime. Their team, as evidenced, even included family spotters, distracting them to the wrong areas.

Excellent description, imo.  Opposite Day - or where Alice landed when she fell into the rabbit hole !

[ldstlou]

AAAAHHHHH!!! Was just going to say good night all and sweet dreams and then saw the pic of jorine!!!  BLAH!!! hope I don't get nightmares now!!! lol

We are pooped here...Night all and thanks for all of your support!! It was a weekend I was very proud of!!!

[klaasend]

AAAAHHHHH!!! Was just going to say good night all and sweet dreams and then saw the pic of jorine!!!  BLAH!!! hope I don't get nightmares now!!! lol

We are pooped here...Night all and thanks for all of your support!! It was a weekend I was very proud of!!!

Nite ldstlou - hugs to you and your son for a great job today!

[ldstlou]

AAAAHHHHH!!! Was just going to say good night all and sweet dreams and then saw the pic of jorine!!!  BLAH!!! hope I don't get nightmares now!!! lol

We are pooped here...Night all and thanks for all of your support!! It was a weekend I was very proud of!!!

Nite ldstlou - hugs to you and your son for a great job today!

thank you...hugs back atcha!!!
nite all!!!

[mrs. red]

Sunny....... it's good to see you !!!


I hate to say I am running out for a while... but the oven buzzer just went off...

[texasmom]

From PearlinUSA at BFN -


7. Professioneel pokerspeler Rolf Slotboom heeft de lichaamstaal van Joran uitvoerig bestudeerd en kan aan de hand van zijn rood aangelopen oortjes constateren dat Joran een echte bluffer is.

7. Professional poker player Rolf Slotboom studied jorans bodylanguage in detail and can judge by his redened ears that joran is a real bluffer

I can't agree with this, I think it should read:

5. Joran is a sex, drugs, alcohol, and gambling addict.

OMG ithink Rolf Slotboom is right!!!!!

[SunnyinTX]

Sunny....... it's good to see you !!!


I hate to say I am running out for a while... but the oven buzzer just went off...

Ok....ttyl...food huh!!   I am still hungry!!!

[SunnyinTX]

Asking again...were those pics earlier of the blonde with the big nose REALLY SandraKrazy???   eeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[San]

Asking again...were those pics earlier of the blonde with the big nose REALLY SandraKrazy???   eeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

From what I have heard YES.

[SunnyinTX]

Asking again...were those pics earlier of the blonde with the big nose REALLY SandraKrazy???   eeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

From what I have heard YES.

hi San....thanks.....again.....eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[bluwaters]

Thanks Nut for this article.
Do the Conservatives think that the pot smokers are going to quit? This kind of legislation is a real boon to the illegal drug trade.
I am not saying that there is nothing wrong with marijuana, simply noting that the Netherlands has a good record on handling addiction.
It is foolish to change that. Why  turn good citizens into criminals?
Prohibition of alcohol did not work in the USA, and I doubt if this proposed prohibition will work in the Netherlands.
The late, great conservative, William F. Buckley, fully supported decriminalization of marijuana in the US. It makes perfect sense to me. This is the last thing that the drug cartels want to see happen. As it stands, they control the crop, distribution, street value,and pocket the profits of their illegal trade, all the while ruthlessly and lawlessly handling "problem" personnel.
If legalized in the US, then the government could grow, regulate, distribute, set prices, tax, and reap the profits. Our extremely crowded jails would find relief if marijuana offenders were not taking up space that could be better utilized for violent criminals.
JMHO

I question the motivation of these conservative Dutch MPs. What are they hoping to accomplish? 

Please understand that I am not supporting the use of marijuana. I am supporting the continued legality of those who chose to use it and I hope that the Netherlands does not take a step backwards in curtailing their citizens' civil liberties.

*puts on monkey armour and scurries up a coconut tree*

This Canadian conservative disagrees with the liberal reasoning.

The rule in our home when our three kids were growing up ... if it is illegal ... it is forbidden ... no discussion ... case closed.  Two of our three kids conformed out of "respect" for the established boundaries.  However ... one conformed out of "fear" for the legal and parental consequences that he knew he would not be shielded from.

bluwaters ... today our eldest son concedes that the "fear" of the legal and parental consequences ... until he matured and grew a brain which allowed him to make wise decisions ... just may have saved him the struggles that accompany drug and alcohol addictions.  In other words he is thankful "now" that he did not have the legal or parental  freedom to  choose "then."

Janet

Yes Janet, the same rule applies here in my home. Anything illegal is not acceptable, including the consumption of alcohol before the age of 21!  I also believe that an age limit is necessary before marijuana should be legal. Still, I strongly disagree with criminalizing those who smoke pot. The punishment does not fit the crime, IMHO. I have witnessed far more lives destroyed by alcohol than marijuana use, which is not to say that either substance is commendable or safe. I am not recommending that anyone partake of marijuana, and I certainly would not approve of legalization for the under 21 crowd.

Congratulations on raising yours through these tough teen years. Our teenage sons do not drink or drug, not only from fear of the law per se, although that is certainly part of it. They are really very concerned about the negative health issues attached to drinking and smoking. I pray that they reach 21 without having engaged in any illegal activities. I applaud your success!


If legalized in the US, then the government could grow, regulate, distribute, set prices, tax, and reap the profits.

JE wrote:

I think the point is that this never happened. Legalizing to some extent the distribution point, without legalizing production, makes it all the more easy for the criminal producers to make a profit. The ideology behind all this makes sense only if it is implemented from the source (growing) to the end user point of sale(coffeeshop) While it is legal in holland to be in possesion of a certain amount of grass or hash bought from a tolerated coffee shop. It is not legal to buy a few acres of farmland to grow marihuana. So where does the semi legal point of sale get its supply from? From illegall marihuana plantations. On top of that studies have shown that if the availability of soft drugs is great the transgression into hard drugs is easier. The point i am trying to make is that the tolerance and liberality holland has always claimed is a two edged sword. On the one hand yes we are  a liberal country but liberal  seems to become more and more synonimous with fear of making any kind of decision that could involve hurting this or that persons feelings. Don't get me wrong i am all for liberal ideas as long as it involves taking responsability for those ideas and having the guts to defend them when the heat is on. Holland has become a country where we do not accuse anyone for bad leadership or mismanagement. We promote them away to a better payed less high profile job.

Thank you JE for clarifying how this works in the Netherlands. I did not know that is was illegal to grow marijauna in Holland. In order to decriminalize marijuana in the US, I do think that it would be necessary to allow farmers to grow a regulated supply for distribution.
Frankly, when I consider the deaths caused directly by tobacco use, I do not understand why tobacco products are legal.
I agree with you that everyone is responsible for their actions and consequences.
Studies also show that hard drug use starts with tobacco. It is a drug too.

[San]

Asking again...were those pics earlier of the blonde with the big nose REALLY SandraKrazy???   eeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

From what I have heard YES.

hi San....thanks.....again.....eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Hi Sunny, you and ldstlou did a great job today and wanted to thank both of you.

[Observer]

Anyone have a subscription to the Tele-Curacao website?   

I think the Audio Feed will be on Top FM 95 for Caps to listen to if he's interested.

[klaasend]

Anyone have a subscription to the Tele-Curacao website?   

LOL - nope but I'm sure it will end up on Youtube by tomorrow 

[ldstlou]

klaas, the fox news is on live now online, I don't know how to record it but maybe you can? I sent you an e-mail on it-

[klaasend]

klaas, the fox news is on live now online, I don't know how to record it but maybe you can? I sent you an e-mail on it-

My downloading program won't download the live feed.  I'll keep watching and see if I can capture with my camera.  That's all I can do.

[Ono]

O.T.

this is dutch prime minister Balkenende:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tadlDvcO_YQ