Natalee Case Discussion #741 3/7 - 3/10/08

[Observer]

Even though Joran confessed twice and has told 22 different stories and sexually assulted her while she was in and out of consciousness before she vanished,the majority of bloggers at RU think Joran left Natalee on the Beach. 12 bloggers said he is as innocent as a newborn 

Do you consider Joran guilty of ....... ?
Nothing, innocent as a newborn.    
   16%    
    16%     [ 12 ]
Lying + leaving N. on the beach asleep/incapacitated.    
   47%    
    47%     [ 35 ]
Not calling for emergency help when she needed it.    
   6%    
    6%     [ 5 ]
Arranging for her disposal after supposed death.    
   13%    
    13%     [ 10 ]
Killing her and disposing of the body (with or without help)    
   15%    
    15%     [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 73

[Nut44x4]

As some of you know, I follow the site meter quite often here. I am going to go out on a limb and take a guess that IF Joran is in Germany, then he is in Kassel, which is located in Deutschland, I believe.

[caesu]

As some of you know, I follow the site meter quite often here. I am going to go out on a limb and take a guess that IF Joran is in Germany, then he is in Kassel, which is located in Deutschland, I believe.

http://www.maxmind.com/app/locate_ip
this ip location thing is pretty acurate for the netherlands.
not sure if same goes for germany.

[SunnyinTX]

 
a morning/afternoon laugh!!

I received an email with this post from RU....I nearly wet myself laughing!!

 Sunny, thought you would get a kick out of reading this post from RU. RU finally got smart...I know it's a shock!!  ::MonkeyRoll::The vile poster BhamMom was banned....and here is an explanation of how desperate she is to get back into RU to post her evilness....too evil even for RU....and no one else wants her either.

Enjoy friend!!



In this case a banned poster (BhamMom) told a current poster (Obscuregawdess) that she was sending her scans of the yearbook pages to post. Several people have been asking for those pics and were excited to see them. OG posted the scans of the front covers of the yearbooks and was awaiting the rest of the scans from BMom.

BMom took the opportunity to try to use the situation to her advantage -- not giving a rip about OG, so BMom sent a message through OG that she would only send the pictures to OG if admin here would let her back in with another nik.
BMom didnt like the reaction she got from the posters here so she said she wasnt going to send the scans at all. So she ended up not sending the scans so OG could not post them even though she had said she was going to because she relied on BMOM ... who subsequently pulled the rug out from under her. I guess BMom then came up with some lame excuse that MB moms didnt want the pictures posted because OG is not on the right side of the fence ... but she had already thrown a tantrum and said she wasnt posting them because everybody here was mean.

Then it seems Bmom told Jonathan she would post them on his site, but now that looks like it's a bust also.

Very juvenile and very manipulative and dishonest ... but that's the BMom we've come to know ....

[dennisintn]

My translator is not loading today...ugh! Could I get some help with this??

nut, i translated it with the google translator just fine, but i can't post it.  sometimes google works when babelfish doesn't and vice versa.  good luck with it.
dennisintn

[Observer]

(Papi Translation)

booshi owing to stop plannan for sanitation laboratory! [/ B] monday, 10 march 2008 oranjestad (aan) --

For can arrive at the root of the case maiky, autoridad wanted criminal or does not, have to cuminza investigates trip of the maneho of booshi wever. Informenan cu daily paper owing to cuminza is copila in his investigations, is now cu cu show not only booshi wever owing to deny centrale accountantsdienst entrance at his departamentonan but cu plan for the sanitation laboratory cu government eman owing to cuminza, not owing to follow.

The management team cu former minister posner owing to introduci in laboratory was for deshaci of one disaster, in which even have to recover owing to number of coin cu was on caya! Autoridad criminal now have to show cu measure is the bottom one measure, not because of this one case cu owing to cuminza because, "cabay of campaign." Haci bay if one conteo of thing ambtenaarnan and contratistanan bottom in the new case can owing to malversa, neither do not arrive at least one of the short cu maiky farro will owing to steal at laboratory. Naturally do not mind the thing mep cu-cu istanan never owing to worde persigui, the cousin of nel and rudy croes, gus, can owing to the haci cu decisionnan cu was take in the payment of esnan cu owing to real trabao for fondo New. If autoridad criminal is earnest and wanted avoids worde of guilt of the two not measure cu measure, is now the open investigations of the relacion cu can have among government and oduber thing owing to happen in laboratory. Daily paper owing to cuminza cu his investigations at the place, caminda the miyones and miyones owing to steal worde.

One of the puntonan cu daily paper owing to investigate was the motibo for which was not have control in laboratory. According booshi owing to states also have maiky was ten year is steal, something neither cu self autoridad not know. Here daily paper owing to bay behind his words and talk cu owing to the person cu was minister, if maiky was have ten year is steal. Daily paper owing to conversation cu dr. Ike posner, that the time was minister. Past owing to show cu hour past owing to asumi his burden, past owing to come across one cu catastrophic situation at laboratory. Not only the building was almost pour bao, but was not have none class of maneho of control. Owing to have to ask for assistance of tico croes can cuminza charges owing to enormous sumanan of people was on caya cu.

Dr. Ike posner owing to cu held for sanitation laboratory, the caminda can rope cu maiky was inkoper and can owing to the not comprende owing to base of kico was fulfilling mercancia as the worde was fulfilling, but do not give maiky only was motibo for question. Laboratory was one catastrophe. Pesey former minister posner owing to introduci one management team, cu was among consisti of another hendenan of seppa and also mac kibbelaar, cu was conocimento of the asuntonan have here, for sanitation bay laboratory. The idea was for unavez laboratory was sanitation, government will owing to hacie one nv and after pase for trahadornan they become for her property, owing to socede at another paisnan. The management team have to order owing to place in the laboratory and dr. Posner owing to tell cu past owing to let the bay as they plannan was. The management team was haci for his trabao fix situation at laboratory. Daily paper owing to follow on the informacionnan owing to come here and achieve cu know the plannan of dr. Posner owing to worde stop. Booshi wever apparently owing to change the maneho. Till today not owing to hear more of the management team neither of reorganisacion of laboratory, cu was to have have scapa of control for coin of people. Never more owing to hear of change in one laboratory nv This while the dr. Posner owing to splica, the situation of laboratory was give all motibo for all cos happen was because not have control and is pesey past owing to place the management team, cu apparently not tey more.

Booshi even after owing to avoid for centrale accountantsdienst enter his departamentonan laboratory and then also for haci control. Autoridad criminal, cu in case new bottom owing to all haci thing was the can for owing to deal of mara thing ambtenaarnan was haci at one administracion orders of government eman, cu owing to allow for even can control owing to cifranan cu never more owing to socede hour oduber government owing to sit, now have the duty for envez of isolating maiky farro, bay not see if the opportunity owing to crea thief, cu owing to send placanan in his campaign of mep. Daily paper is still cu his investigacionnan,

http://news.diario-aruba.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1406&Itemid=9

[Nut44x4]

Even though Joran confessed twice and has told 22 different stories and sexually assulted her while she was in and out of consciousness before she vanished,the majority of bloggers at RU think Joran left Natalee on the Beach. 12 bloggers said he is as innocent as a newborn 

Do you consider Joran guilty of ....... ?
Nothing, innocent as a newborn.    
   16%    
    16%     [ 12 ]
Lying + leaving N. on the beach asleep/incapacitated.    
   47%    
    47%     [ 35 ]
Not calling for emergency help when she needed it.    
   6%    
    6%     [ 5 ]
Arranging for her disposal after supposed death.    
   13%    
    13%     [ 10 ]
Killing her and disposing of the body (with or without help)    
   15%    
    15%     [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 73

ACKKKKKKKKK.....I saw that over there!! I will stand by my feeling that they are the same type of people that Joran is, and that is why they are the way they are. They know he is guilty as Hell and they will stand by him and continue to support his lies because they are like him!! I would bet 3/4 of his supporters over there and elsewhere are criminals, either past or present themselves, period.

[Nut44x4]

I would like to know why Wang Chung was put on a 2 week (or whatever amt. of time) timeout. What could he have done that was any worse than what he has been doing over there for 2.8 years????

[Observer]

After seeing Minister Ike Posner's name come up in that Labaratory scam connected to the MEP,It makes me wonder about convicted Mobster and casino owner Mike Posner. Why would he change his name from Irv Goldstein to Michael Posner? Out of all the names why Posner? Is it just a coincidence?

I think it's obvious that Mike Posner and the other Posners are all connected to the same corrupt group that is in power now in Aruba.

============================================
10/17/2005

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Some time ago DIARIO found information regarding the manager of the Holiday Inn’s Excelsior Casino and people have been calling out to ask how a figure with a criminal past of such an extent can be active in the casino industry of Aruba.

His name? Michael Posner, owner (or one of the owners) of the Brickel Hotel situated in front of the big hotels in Malmok. In the past he was arrested in the state of Illinois for violation of the Ricco Act (racketeering) and because he was also involved in the world of prostitution.

He was condemned to 10 years in prison, but apparently he served 8 out of the 10 years. He appealed his case and lost the appeal! After he was released he was on parole for 5 years. His name is also mentioned as an associate of a notorious family.

DIARIO knows that the government is at the height of such people, and asks how he can be active in the casino industry of Aruba. How did he find a permit to work in this branch with the background that he has? How has the Minister of Justice still not taken action against him? Now that his criminal past is known, what is the government waiting for to take him out of Aruba?

During the [election] campaign which recently came to an end, many comments and rumours were circulating regarding contributions to certain politicians, including those in the [current] government. DIARIO hopes that the issue of campaign moneys remain a rumour, because if true, then there are more politicians for sale than is [already] apparent.

The presence of Michael Posner in the Aruba casino industry, with the criminal past that he has, does not speak well of the judicial control system, nor that of National Security, nor of those in charge to check the background of those who work in the tourism industry of Aruba.

This is the damage that one person with such a bad reputation, who was incarcerated during 8 years, who is associated with a notorious family in America, can cause to the tourism of Aruba.

[translated by Getagrip]

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/government-has-its-hand-over-michael.html

[Observer]

From what I can see Harry(Lions Club 1963?)and Oiky Posner(Liquor) go back some 40 years in Aruba. I just find it hard to believe that a convicted Mobster was allowed to change his last name to theres and allowed to own and operate casino's and hotels in Aruba. They must be connected in some way,my guess would be through the mob going back to the 1960's.

[Jerry from Ohio]

  *******,  now that is a sad statement about those folks at RU and their thinking process .
   Jerry from Ohio

Even though Joran confessed twice and has told 22 different stories and sexually assulted her while she was in and out of consciousness before she vanished,the majority of bloggers at RU think Joran left Natalee on the Beach. 12 bloggers said he is as innocent as a newborn 

Do you consider Joran guilty of ....... ?
Nothing, innocent as a newborn.    
   16%    
    16%     [ 12 ]
Lying + leaving N. on the beach asleep/incapacitated.    
   47%    
    47%     [ 35 ]
Not calling for emergency help when she needed it.    
   6%    
    6%     [ 5 ]
Arranging for her disposal after supposed death.    
   13%    
    13%     [ 10 ]
Killing her and disposing of the body (with or without help)    
   15%    
    15%     [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 73

[vms]

From what I can see Harry(Lions Club 1963?)and Oiky Posner(Liquor) go back some 40 years in Aruba. I just find it hard to believe that a convicted Mobster was allowed to change his last name to theres and allowed to own and operate casino's and hotels in Aruba. They must be connected in some way,my guess would be through the mob going back to the 1960's.

I don't know if it makes any difference but MP has been using the Posner name since he was at least twenty-seven years old.

[katrien]

The NWO closed his thread about Nathalee today.

The owner of the forum told the guy from the "weird" tapes that he could place his conclusions on his own Hyves site. He thougt the posters on his site were arguing too much and he decided the posters could go to Fok with their opinion, since there was already a treath about Natalee.
 
Fok has a lot of readers an on Fok 80% of the posters make sence. 

[Observer]

Early Members of the Aruba Lions Club

José Walfanzan     03-'52
Wim Schol            02-'54
Harry Posner     10-'63
Kees de Jong    10-'68

[Nut44x4]

O/T Klaas.......kissyface reports in missing peeps >> Dennis Kelly body found. Thanks.

[klaasend]

The NWO closed his thread about Nathalee today.

The owner of the forum told the guy from the "weird" tapes that he could place his conclusions on his own Hyves site. He thougt the posters on his site were arguing too much and he decided the posters could go to Fok with their opinion, since there was already a treath about Natalee.
 
Fok has a lot of readers an on Fok 80% of the posters make sence. 

This case has certainly brought out more than it's share of NONsensical posters 

[Tamikosmom]

After seeing Minister Ike Posner's name come up in that Labaratory scam connected to the MEP,It makes me wonder about convicted Mobster and casino owner Mike Posner. Why would he change his name from Irv Goldstein to Michael Posner? Out of all the names why Posner? Is it just a coincidence?

I think it's obvious that Mike Posner and the other Posners are all connected to the same corrupt group that is in power now in Aruba.

============================================
10/17/2005

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Some time ago DIARIO found information regarding the manager of the Holiday Inn’s Excelsior Casino and people have been calling out to ask how a figure with a criminal past of such an extent can be active in the casino industry of Aruba.

His name? Michael Posner, owner (or one of the owners) of the Brickel Hotel situated in front of the big hotels in Malmok. In the past he was arrested in the state of Illinois for violation of the Ricco Act (racketeering) and because he was also involved in the world of prostitution.

He was condemned to 10 years in prison, but apparently he served 8 out of the 10 years. He appealed his case and lost the appeal! After he was released he was on parole for 5 years. His name is also mentioned as an associate of a notorious family.

DIARIO knows that the government is at the height of such people, and asks how he can be active in the casino industry of Aruba. How did he find a permit to work in this branch with the background that he has? How has the Minister of Justice still not taken action against him? Now that his criminal past is known, what is the government waiting for to take him out of Aruba?

During the [election] campaign which recently came to an end, many comments and rumours were circulating regarding contributions to certain politicians, including those in the [current] government. DIARIO hopes that the issue of campaign moneys remain a rumour, because if true, then there are more politicians for sale than is [already] apparent.

The presence of Michael Posner in the Aruba casino industry, with the criminal past that he has, does not speak well of the judicial control system, nor that of National Security, nor of those in charge to check the background of those who work in the tourism industry of Aruba.

This is the damage that one person with such a bad reputation, who was incarcerated during 8 years, who is associated with a notorious family in America, can cause to the tourism of Aruba.

[translated by Getagrip]

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/government-has-its-hand-over-michael.html

Thank you *******.

I contend that Michael Posner is another reason that Joran van der Sloot will not be held accountable in regards to the events encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 when Natalee Holloway went missing.  As John Q. Kelly implied ... the entire chain of events that involving an 18 year old American citizen would not have happened if an underage Joran had not been gambling at the either the poker or black jack table at the Excelsior Casino on the evening of May 30, 2005.

Janet

++++++++++

Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
September 19, 2005

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9407728/

COSBY: What about Michael Posner? There‘s this gentleman who owns a casino where Natalee and Joran were seen spending time. Apparently, Joran has a big credit line there. I went into that casino. What do you know about the guy that owns that casino, Harold?

COPUS: Well this guy has that casino. He‘s alleged to have organized crime ties back to Chicago. And you can say alleged, he‘s actually served time. He‘s been convicted. So he comes up into Aruba and is able to get a gambling casino. At the same time, we‘re told that Joran and his dad both are gambling there. It really makes you wonder how that‘s happening and how they got this line of credit.

COSBY: Yes. And a big, big line of credit. Beth, I know you‘ve actually been to the casino, right? And Michael Posner threatened you, is that correct?

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: Well, there was a phone call made. And it was just really having me refer to—you know, I‘d only mentioned the fact I had gotten from prosecuting attorney as far as the open line of credit, and that Joran is in his casino gambling, and I don‘t think there was ever a question that Joran and Paulus Van Der Sloot had been in that Excelsior Casino, and, particularly, on the night of the 29th where he and his father met Natalee.


John Kelly
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
April 11, 2006

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12150698/

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: ... And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process.
You know, if Joran had never been there, not been allowed in there, because he’s underage and wasn’t accompanied by his father, the whole rest of the night wouldn’t have happened.

COSBY: You know, and, John, also, why would that be a significant—why is that in conflict to something else we’ve heard maybe from Paulus before?

KELLY: Well, he’s just claiming that, you know, he’s kept an eye on his son, you know, he’s kept him on a short leash, and, you know, his son is very well-behaved. And it turns out that he’s, you know, got him at casinos. If you’re under 18, you’re not legally even allowed in casinos, so his son was breaking the law with him enabling it.

[Observer]

From what I can see Harry(Lions Club 1963?)and Oiky Posner(Liquor) go back some 40 years in Aruba. I just find it hard to believe that a convicted Mobster was allowed to change his last name to theres and allowed to own and operate casino's and hotels in Aruba. They must be connected in some way,my guess would be through the mob going back to the 1960's.

I don't know if it makes any difference but MP has been using the Posner name since he was at least twenty-seven years old.

Well that goes back quite a long time then. All I saw was the names Michael Rubins and Irv Goldstein. I notice he calls himself Walter and Michael Posner now,even though I havent seen him say anything since Natalee dissapeared and he spoken through his lawyer.

[Nut44x4]

What is NWO??

[Tamikosmom]

The protection of the tourist dollar that feeds an underground economy throughout the Carribean appears to have always been the motivation behind the coverup in the Natalee Holloway case.

Justice for Natalee Holloway would have demanded ... not just accountability from Joran or Paulus for their roles but ... also the the Excelsior Casino and Carlos and Charlies where ...  as John Q. Kelly stated ... the entire chain of events that resulted in the demise of an 18 year old American citizen would never have happened if an underage Joran van der Sloot had not been allowed on the premises to gamble and drink.

At 17 years of age ... could it be that Joran van der Sloot was  already an active contributor to that underground economy ... the underground economy that encompasses gambling ... drugs ... pornography ...

Janet

++++++++++++


CARLOS 'N CHARLIES

Joran van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 9, 2005

After that we drove straight to Carlos & Charlies. Deepak was the driver but I cannot remember now who was sitting beside him. I do not remember now if it was Satish or me. I estimate that we arrived at Carlos & Charlies between 00.15 and 00.30 hours. Deepak parked his car on the parking lot behind Carlos & Charlies and after that we walked into the building of Carlos & Charlies. I don't have to pay because I have a VIP pass. With my VIP pass Deepak and Satish were also allowed in.

To your question as to who gave me the VIP pass to Carlos & Charlies, I answer you that I got it through the office of Carlos & Charlies. I do not remember with the help of who I got the VIP pass. I got to Carlos & Charlies about one to three times a week.


EXCELSIOR CASINO

Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 39 - Following our brief conversation, we all walk immediately to the fron desk to ask about someone named Joran who is staying in the hotel and plays in the casino here.  The Holiday Inn night manager, Brenda, knows him by name.  "Oh! yes ... yes ... Joran.  He gambles in the Excelsior Casino here.  He likes to prey on young female tourists.  Especially the blonds.  He is tall.  Good-looking boy.  Like a Dutch marine."  My mouth drops wide open.  "Where is he from?" I ask her.  She replies.  "He lives in Aruba."  I stutter.  "He's ... he's not a tourist just here for the summer?"  "Non, non," she says.

It takes a few moments to absorb this information.  The supposed tourist who befriended some of Natalee's classmates and who told them he was staying at their hotel lied tothem.  He isn't a tourist.  He isn't styaing here.


RADISSON CASINO

Deepak Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 13, 2005

Andre asked me to come inside. I did go inside. I did not play, but did look at the cards of Joran and Guido.

At some given moment in time a tourist who was sitting at Joran's table got angry. The tourist thought that we were looking at the cards of other players and signaling/deciding for Joran when he should play or not. It lead to a disagreement between Joran and the tourist. The manager of the Radisson Casino came over and everything calmed down. I drank about four "whisky coke" gedronken in the Radisson Casino. I now that Joran drank more because the waiters were constantly bringing him drinks.   I am not sure .what he was drinking. His drinks were of a yellow colour. I think it was “whisky soda" or 'Whisky water".