Natalee Case Discussion #741 3/7 - 3/10/08

[Nut44x4]

So, did I miss it or have we heard what was said on telecuracao last night...?

[vms]

From what I can see Harry(Lions Club 1963?)and Oiky Posner(Liquor) go back some 40 years in Aruba. I just find it hard to believe that a convicted Mobster was allowed to change his last name to theres and allowed to own and operate casino's and hotels in Aruba. They must be connected in some way,my guess would be through the mob going back to the 1960's.

I don't know if it makes any difference but MP has been using the Posner name since he was at least twenty-seven years old.

Well that goes back quite a long time then. All I saw was the names Michael Rubins and Irv Goldstein. I notice he calls himself Walter and Michael Posner now,even though I havent seen him say anything since Natalee dissapeared and he spoken through his lawyer.

Ob,

Isn't Walter his son?

[Observer]

September 22, 2005
HarryTho On The Natalee Holloway Case: Was Michael Posner in the mob?
Topics: Natalee Holloway

A reader at another site asked if the Mike Posner of Aruba is the same Mike Posner from the Chicago Mob. The answer is yes. He did some time in the 80s, but after his release the Chicago outfit rewarded him by putting him in charge of their Aruba interests. In Chicago he was identified in the newspapers as “The Vice Kingpin of the Northwest Suburbs.” He ran gambling, adult bookstores, strip clubs and prostitution. You'll recall that Posner and Natalee went missing during the same week, which is too much of a coincidence to simply ignore. According to the early posts on Dan Reihl's site, Posner met Natalee at the Excelsior Casino. I believe it was at the same time that Natalee introduced herself to Joran van der Sloot.

Posner certainly had the ability to make Natalee disappear. From the comments on the excelsior Casino that they cater to a lot of wealthy South Americans, I would suspect that Posner would be our connection to the sex trade. He is the King of the Bums in Aruba. He knows what is going on criminal-wise. The fact that Natalee has not appeared, tells me that he had something to do with her disappearance.

I have suspected Posner's involvement all along, but I had never previously suspected that he had a criminal record from Chicago, at least until the information came out. How the Aruba police have not clamped down on this guy is simply amazing. But, Posner could have had an arrangement with the former Police Chief van der Straaten.

As reported: Michael Posner owns the Excelsior Casino in Aruba, and caters mostly to "Spaniards". From what I gather from the Excelsior's casino info, some 30% of the gamblers come from South America. These are experienced gamblers used to playing for high stakes. Hence, they are South Americans with money!

On another note, the Excelsior Casino is a pioneer in on-line gambling.

Also, Michal Posner bought the Grand Holiday Casino (GHC) and changed the name to the Excelsior Casino on 1 September 1998.

Posted for HarryTho

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/09/harrytho_on_the.php
=========================

Casino boss Michael Posner denies that he knows van der Sloot and denies ever extending him casino credit. Posner's lawyer Allan Ackerman says Posner was in Chicago when Holloway vanished and returned to Aruba the day after.

Posner says it was he who voluntarily turned over this casino surveillance tape to Aruban authorities and that he is furious they have allowed ABC News to broadcast it.

aPosner says he has paid the expenses for private investigators to come here and assist in the search for Holloway and according to his lawyer: "He has nothin' to do with nothing" in the murder case.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=investigative&id=3936339&ft=print

[Tamikosmom]

MICHAEL POSNER

Aruban casino boss had ties to Chicago mob
Thursday, February 23, 2006 | 6:07 PM
Missing Alabama teen last seen at casino
By Chuck Goudie

February 23, 2006 (WLS) -- Authorities on the island of Aruba have not been able to solve the mystery of what happened to Alabama teenager Natalie Holloway. She disappeared while on a high school trip last spring. The ABC7 I-Team has learned new details about the casino where Holloway was last seen, an Aruba casino run by a convicted high-ranking Chicago mobster.

The unsolved disappearance of 18-year-old Natalie Holloway has commanded worldwide attention. It has been widely reported that the last place Holloway was known to be alive was the Excelsior casino connected to the Holiday Inn where she and her classmates were staying.

The I-Team has learned that the casino where Holloway was last seen is operated by Chicagoan Michael Posner. The intelligence report on Posner lists him as a prominent member of the Chicago outfit for more than 40 years.
 
According to federal law enforcement, Michael Posner's most recent mob assignment was boss of illegal rackets in the north suburbs. Posner was convicted in 1987 of threatening wayward gamblers with death and running prostitutes out of this Lake County strip club.
 
Through his Chicago lawyer, Posner maintains that he has been clean for 15 years and since 1998 has operated the Excelsior casino on the Caribbean resort on the island of Aruba.

Last May, honor student Natalie Holloway was staying at the resort on her high school graduation trip when she disappeared. One of the last places she was seen alive was in Posner's Excelsior casino.
 
In security tape obtained by ABC News, Holloway is seen at a table seated next to Joran van der Sloot, a local who is the prime suspect in the case. Van der Slout admits having had a romantic encounter with Holloway, but in an exclusive interview to air Thursday night on Primetime, he says he is no criminal.
 
"I think I've been portrayed unfairly. I've been portrayed as a murderer and a rapist and everything that I'm not," van der Sloot said.

Casino boss Michael Posner denies that he knows van der Sloot and denies ever extending him casino credit. Posner's lawyer Allan Ackerman says Posner was in Chicago when Holloway vanished and returned to Aruba the day after.
 
Now 64 years old, here's the intelligence report on Michael William Posner:

- aka Michael Rubins and Irving Goldstein.
his family still resides in Riverwoods.

- his criminal profile lists involvement in illegal gambling, strip clubs and vending machines.

- criminal history dates to 1960 includes numerous arrests and successful tax and racketeering prosecutions.
 
Posner says it was he who voluntarily turned over this casino surveillance tape to Aruban authorities and that he is furious they have allowed ABC News to broadcast it.
 
Posner says he has paid the expenses for private investigators to come here and assist in the search for Holloway and according to his lawyer: "He has nothin' to do with nothing" in the murder case.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=investigative&id=3936339

 

[klaasend]

So, did I miss it or have we heard what was said on telecuracao last night...?

It's interresting that nothing is being reported on it.  Seems it was also broadcast on the radio.  Nothing at RU yet so it either must have been nothing or it didn't fit into their agenda.

[greeneyedlady]

Nut Wang got a timeout for giving r/l info on the poster ghost aka salksalk.

[Tamikosmom]

Joe Mammana ... an advocate for Natalee Holloway's family is refused entry to Aruba ... he has a criminal past.  However ... Michael Posner ...

Janet

+++++++++++++++
 
DIARIO Aruba
11/21/2005

ORANJESTAD (AAN) The case of Natalee is taking other unexpected twists and very negative ones that are going to tarnish Aruba’s image as a safe destination for tourists and investors.

Joe Mammana has a very impressive criminal past in the U.S. but for one reason or another he has found publicity with different cases which have set his image straight and in the case of Natalee, he is trying to find national attention in the US by using sensationalism via the American media.

The government of Aruba recently declared that they will not permit Joe Mammana to enter Aruba.

Related to his past and criminal record, the government took the decision via the Minister of Justice that they cannot let such a person enter Aruba and about this there was information circulating that this Joe person sent a threatening letter to those who were detained in Aruba related to the case of Natalee.

The government’s actions in this case were correct because they cannot let this type of person come to Aruba and believe that they can come do what they see fit on our island, and to boot, Mammana is one of those who is trying, body and soul, to organize an unjust and unjustifiable boycott against Aruba.

What is strange is that the government refuses to let this ex-criminal enter Aruba, but on the other hand, permits another ex-criminal, Mike Posner who is going soon to the U.S. for cases of law violations, to be able to have a business in Aruba, and enter and leave Aruba whenever he wants.

To make matters worse, the person in question, Mike Posner, has been able to obtain a permit to operate a casino, where anyone who wants to have a casino in Aruba and the majority of other countries in the world have to have a clean criminal record.

Recently, this information has started to circulate in the U.S. as well, and seeing that it hasn’t been many days since via the American media false information was given that Aruba is a sort of den for criminals and even terrorists, the matter of the Aruba casino owner with a criminal past in the US, is going to help those who want to implement a total boycott against Aruba.

Wasn’t it in Mike Posner’s casino that the principal suspect in Natalee’s case, Joran van der Sloot, was sitting gambling, despite the fact that he was underage and that never should he have been permitted to enter the casino?

Some weeks back, other media in Aruba came out in vanguard of the ex-criminal Mike Posner and wrote and article that praised Mike Posner for his supposed achievements in Aruba and what interest they had with him, nobody knows.

Now that the government refuses an American ex-criminal entry to Aruba, the government has to justify the reason why until today they continue to permit a person with such a police record such as Mike Posner, can come to set up a business in Aruba, continue to operate his business in Aruba and come and go whenever he wants.

What sort of handling of Justice is there in Aruba and what impact will this case have in the US when the American media start to question the government of Aruba about this matter?

This matter is pending because there are more questionable things here and also the role that certain politicians in Aruba play and continue to play in this matter.

[translated by Getagrip]

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/11/aruban-casino-owner-with-criminal-past.html

[Observer]

From what I can see Harry(Lions Club 1963?)and Oiky Posner(Liquor) go back some 40 years in Aruba. I just find it hard to believe that a convicted Mobster was allowed to change his last name to theres and allowed to own and operate casino's and hotels in Aruba. They must be connected in some way,my guess would be through the mob going back to the 1960's.

I don't know if it makes any difference but MP has been using the Posner name since he was at least twenty-seven years old.

Well that goes back quite a long time then. All I saw was the names Michael Rubins and Irv Goldstein. I notice he calls himself Walter and Michael Posner now,even though I havent seen him say anything since Natalee dissapeared and he spoken through his lawyer.

Ob,

Isn't Walter his son?

Not sure,it appears that way from the info below..I thought his name was Michael W Posner and only two people went on record as owners of the Excelsior a Michael and a Walter. The wilkepedia says he has no children.
-------------------------------

Michael Posner is a businessman and casino owner in Aruba. Posner is the owner of the Excelsior, Holiday Inn and Grand Holiday Casinos.

On September 20 2005, MSNBCtelevision news journalist Rita Cosby interviewed an FBI agent who identified Posner as a convicted felon with alleged organized crime ties. Posner's casino, the Excelsior, has been implicated in the Natalee Holloway disappearance. He is currently married with no children to Robin Abergel.

---------------------------------
EXCELSIOR CASINO N.V.
Business address J.E. IRAUSQUIN BLVD. 230, NOORD
Legal form LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY
Name of the company EXCELSIOR CASINO N.V.
Statutory seat ARUBA
Date of incorporation 19 JUNE 1998

Authorized capital ARUBAN FLORINS 100,000.00
Issued capital ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00
Paid up capital ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00
Fiscal year 01 JANUARY thru 31 DECEMBER
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD:
POSNER, WALTER BRETT;
Residing in 9 BANOCKBURN COURT , BANOCKBURN III, U.S.A.
Born in U.S.A., CHICAGO, ILLINOIS on 21 MAY 1960
Nationality AMERICAN
Position MANAGING DIRECTOR
Effective 23 OCTOBER 1998
Authority FULL
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY
TO OPERATE A CASINO AT THE "HOLIDAY IN RESORT".

[katrien]

What is NWO??

It's a small, strange site.
The Natalee bashers tried it there, obviously without success.

There is no news from Aruba, so I guess there was nothing on tape we did not already knew.
This was predictable because Peter R can be considered as trustworthy and one of the writers of the articles in Nieuwe Revu can be considered as not trustworthy.

So 1+1 = 2.

[vms]

From what I can see Harry(Lions Club 1963?)and Oiky Posner(Liquor) go back some 40 years in Aruba. I just find it hard to believe that a convicted Mobster was allowed to change his last name to theres and allowed to own and operate casino's and hotels in Aruba. They must be connected in some way,my guess would be through the mob going back to the 1960's.

I don't know if it makes any difference but MP has been using the Posner name since he was at least twenty-seven years old.

Well that goes back quite a long time then. All I saw was the names Michael Rubins and Irv Goldstein. I notice he calls himself Walter and Michael Posner now,even though I havent seen him say anything since Natalee dissapeared and he spoken through his lawyer.

Ob,

Isn't Walter his son?

Not sure,it appears that way from the info below..I thought his name was Michael W Posner and only two people went on record as owners of the Excelsior a Michael and a Walter. The wilkepedia says he has no children.
-------------------------------

Michael Posner is a businessman and casino owner in Aruba. Posner is the owner of the Excelsior, Holiday Inn and Grand Holiday Casinos.

On September 20 2005, MSNBCtelevision news journalist Rita Cosby interviewed an FBI agent who identified Posner as a convicted felon with alleged organized crime ties. Posner's casino, the Excelsior, has been implicated in the Natalee Holloway disappearance. He is currently married with no children to Robin Abergel.

---------------------------------
EXCELSIOR CASINO N.V.
Business address J.E. IRAUSQUIN BLVD. 230, NOORD
Legal form LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY
Name of the company EXCELSIOR CASINO N.V.
Statutory seat ARUBA
Date of incorporation 19 JUNE 1998

Authorized capital ARUBAN FLORINS 100,000.00
Issued capital ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00
Paid up capital ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00
Fiscal year 01 JANUARY thru 31 DECEMBER
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD:
POSNER, WALTER BRETT;
Residing in 9 BANOCKBURN COURT , BANOCKBURN III, U.S.A.
Born in U.S.A., CHICAGO, ILLINOIS on 21 MAY 1960
Nationality AMERICAN
Position MANAGING DIRECTOR
Effective 23 OCTOBER 1998
Authority FULL
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY
TO OPERATE A CASINO AT THE "HOLIDAY IN RESORT".

I'm not sure either, Ob. The birth date led to my assumption that Walter may be his son...

[Nut44x4]

Nut Wang got a timeout for giving r/l info on the poster ghost aka salksalk.

ooooooooo, ok. Thanks Gel!

Klaas....ah yes... "if it don't fit you must acquit?" LOL! I understand.

[bleachedblack]

Even though Joran confessed twice and has told 22 different stories and sexually assulted her while she was in and out of consciousness before she vanished,the majority of bloggers at RU think Joran left Natalee on the Beach. 12 bloggers said he is as innocent as a newborn 

Do you consider Joran guilty of ....... ?
Nothing, innocent as a newborn.    
   16%    
    16%     [ 12 ]
Lying + leaving N. on the beach asleep/incapacitated.    
   47%    
    47%     [ 35 ]
Not calling for emergency help when she needed it.    
   6%    
    6%     [ 5 ]
Arranging for her disposal after supposed death.    
   13%    
    13%     [ 10 ]
Killing her and disposing of the body (with or without help)    
   15%    
    15%     [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 73

This really really sad. After all that has been exposed! No one who is as "innocent as a newborn" is going to lie and change story as much as joran. They are lying to show allegiance to someone/something.....I can see no other explanation.

[Observer]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------A posts from the Major Wager forum:

07-16-2005, 01:31 AM
shoebox
Two Star General Join Date: Aug 2000


Clev, I was offered a job there in 1999, the guy is from Chicago and his 1st name is Mike, I wont put the last name on here. I thought he was a decent guy but I never took the offer, I believe Reality knows him well. He owns the casino itself which is totally seperate from the Holiday Inn(Excelsior Casino), it has a walk up sportsbook and racebook, Poker Room and all the table games, I always stay there when i go.
---------------------------------
Regarding Steve Croes involvement. This was posted in the Major Wager forum:

06/26/2005 09:17 PM
clevfan
Three Star General

Posts: 13548
Joined: 07/19/2002

Alec, as you can see now, I was telling truth about contact in Aruba. My contact had contacted Croes grandma (who he lives with), and I knew the story that Croes had told his grandma. If you are following the news, this story is same reason he is going free tomorrow....

Here's the story he told his grandma: He was on boat cleaning it, he heard arguing on beach, he then decided to go and check it out. He went out and check and recgonized Deepak and then decided it was nothing, so he went back in boat. He told that the 4 people arguing were the brothers, Joran, and a girl. He went to cops with this info, next day, cops arrest him.

Back on the day I posted this, this was the story I knew cuz it was from his grandma. Today upon his release, we learn that he made up a story to back up his friend story and went to cops with it, then cops find out it not a truthful acct since the perps had changed their story.

But as you see now Alec, I do have sources in Aruba, and that they very much connected to key players in this story

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Clevfan at the Major Wager forum:

07-03-2005, 03:30 AM
clevfan
Staff Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 17,627


these are suspect sites:

www.mrpinkproductions.com

www.guide2paradise.com


both are run by a guy orginally from michigan by the name of paul brough. he is good friends with lorenzo van rijn

old sites are: www.getlegalhookers.com and www.metronightlife.com


http://tinyurl.com/29uuob

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Another Clevfan post from Major Wager site:

07-15-2005, 02:03 PM
clevfan
Staff Join Date: Jul 2002

Joran has changed his statement to the police 9 times, that pretty much makes it look like he hiding something. Also, apparently, they have received records back from forensic tests on Joran's cell phone and on Deepaks cell, they tracked the locations of them that night thru the battery's and have found that Joran actually returned home at 4am and Deepak did go home after dropping Joran and Natalee off at 2am, but also left his home again after that. It has also been stated that there were 2 fishermen out that night in the Marriot / Holiday Inn area and they state that they never saw Joran and Natalee on the beach, so therefore we don't even know if the story of Joran and Natalee on the beach at 2am is even true.
----------------------------------------------------------
Another interresting post from Clevfan:

06-27-2005, 02:11 AM
clevfan
Staff Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 17,627


alec, i can understand your reply, at the time I should have said what exactly I knew, but I held back.

MJ, the story in aruba is that the kid still have something to do with it, but according to the locals, they are not sure after recent developements. so many strange twists in this case. Apparently lots of underground parties,etc, but no one know what to believe. But, on other hand, lots of conspiracy theorys going around down there as well regarding the American side of this story and the who's who list of the kid's that went on this trip.

On a side note, a girl I spoke to down there that told me the searchers was focosing on a site that she said the fishermen told her about other day, a strong odor was coming from the sand there, so I guess tomrrow we will see. It is not too far from her home, and so hopefully we will hear something tomorrow. One thing is for sure, they all hate Geraldo down there, and he has been there this wkend covering the story, and they hate him with a passion

MJ, forgot to add, kid is stating he walked home in the period of 40 min, which is true timeline of what it would take him to walk home

[klaasend]

******* - I need to run out for a bit.  The new thread is unlocked.  Can you lock this thread please when it gets to page 50?  If not I'll lock it when I get back.

[Observer]

******* - I need to run out for a bit.  The new thread is unlocked.  Can you lock this thread please when it gets to page 50?  If not I'll lock it when I get back.

Sure thing..We are going mighty slow on posts though 

[mojo]

******* - I need to run out for a bit.  The new thread is unlocked.  Can you lock this thread please when it gets to page 50?  If not I'll lock it when I get back.

Sure thing..We are going mighty slow on posts though 

glad you brought up the majorwager forum again. i was looking through that this afternoon and saw that acw posted that paulus and the judge were golfing buddies. i don't remember that ever coming out.

http://www.majorwager.com/forums/mess-hall/44196-anyone-else-following-natalee-holloway-case-6.html

[katrien]

Aruba is een doorvoerhaven voor heroïne

"Aruba is niet alleen het favoriete eiland van Joran van der Sloot, ambtenarendelegaties die om de dag die kant opvliegen om ons belastinggeld op te zuipen en vreten, maar ook, je raadt het al bijna, een doorvoerhaven voor heroïne en in mindere mate van cocaïne. Drugsgebruik op het eiland, ook onder toeristen, blijft een punt van zorg". Dat staat in een rapport dat The International Narcotics Strategy Report (INSCR) vrijdag aan het Amerikaanse Congres in Amerika heeft aangeboden. Het rapport over het jaar 2007 is maandag openbaar gemaakt.


De drugs zouden vanaf het eiland verder worden vervoerd via cruiseschepen die Aruba aandoen en de dagelijkse vluchten vanaf het eiland naar Amerika en Europa.

Volgens het rapport is Aruba interessant voor smokkelaars door de 'goede infrastructuur, uitstekende vliegverbindingen en relatief lichte straffen voor drugshandel in relatief goede omstandigheden'.

Het rapport meldt dat Aruba weliswaar weinig criminaliteit kent, maar dat uit criminaliteitsonderzoek in 2007 blijkt dat 'prominent drug traffickers' op het eiland zijn gevestigd.

Het Openbaar Ministerie op Aruba "begrijpt niet" waarop de VS hun conclusie over Aruba baseren. Volgens hoofdofficier Hans Mos was er vorig jaar op het eiland één vangst van dertien kilo heroïne.

"Dat is geen grote hoeveelheid. Per saldo is er sprake van een dalende trend, in 2000 werd er 78 kilo onderschept. Zowel in heroïne als in cocaïne en xtc wordt aanzienlijk minder gehandeld door het strengere toezicht, waaronder de honderdprocentcontroles in Nederland."
Bron Antillen.nu.

ARUBA IS A TRANSIT HARBOUR FOR HEROINE
“Aruba is not only the favorite island of Joran van der Sloot, civil servants going every other day to Aruba  to consume our tax money, but also, it is nearly to be guessed,  a transit port for heroine and also,  but less important,  for cocaine. Using drugs on the island, also among the tourists, is a remaining  worry”.  This is what the report The International Strategy Report  (INSCR) says. The report was given last Friday to the American Congress in America. The report of the year 2007 is published.
The drugs supposed to be carried through from the island,  by cruise ships entering Aruba and also by the daily flights from the island to America en Europe.
According to the report,  Aruba is interesting for smugglers by the “good infrastructure, excellent flight connections and relatively light punishment for trading drugs in relatively good circumstances”.
The report says that Aruba knows few criminalities, but from the criminality investigation from 2007 it appears that prominent drug traders are established on the island.
The Openbaar Ministerie on Aruba does not understand on which the VS based their conclusion.
According to chief officer Hans Mos there was last year on the island one catch of 13 kg heroin.
That is not a big amount. There is a declining trend, in 2000 there was 78 kg caught. As well as in heroin, cocaine and in xtc there is a lot less trade, since the more disciplined surveillance. Besides that there are  hundred percent checks in Holland.

Bron: Antillen.nu.

[bleachedblack]

Oops new here, I think I did that wrong. 

  you are nasty and according to the Bible that is a terrible sin.

I didn't know that drinking out of the same bottle was a sin.  I must have a different Bible.

  Let it be known God is not mocked.

It seems this pic has been controversial here this am LOL. I see a gray hose in their hands....my guess is they are fighting for a drink from some type of kegerator......

[bleachedblack]

Is this thread locked yet?
I'm moving over .........

[Observer]

******* - I need to run out for a bit.  The new thread is unlocked.  Can you lock this thread please when it gets to page 50?  If not I'll lock it when I get back.

Sure thing..We are going mighty slow on posts though 

glad you brought up the majorwager forum again. i was looking through that this afternoon and saw that acw posted that paulus and the judge were golfing buddies. i don't remember that ever coming out.

http://www.majorwager.com/forums/mess-hall/44196-anyone-else-following-natalee-holloway-case-6.html

Hmm...I havent read that before...