Natalee Case Discussion #741 3/7 - 3/10/08

[Pita]

Pita,
  Can you get one of the guy on the roof at the fishermans hut? The video still won't load for me..

Tot,  it won't load for me either.  I captured that picture this morning. 

[Dayhiker]

Klaas,
Thank you. 
It's remarkable that the court and the parties are so patient.
Linda in MD

I agree.  I do think part of the delay now is on the courts end.  Sounds like they are real busy and that's why the date was moved to 4/29

The Kalpoe discovery materials are now, what, over three, four, five months overdue? Seems to me the case shouyld have been thrown out a long time ago.

[San]

Klaas,
Thank you. 
It's remarkable that the court and the parties are so patient.
Linda in MD

I agree.  I do think part of the delay now is on the courts end.  Sounds like they are real busy and that's why the date was moved to 4/29

The Kalpoe discovery materials are now, what, over three, four, five months overdue? Seems to me the case shouyld have been thrown out a long time ago.

I agree.  Why the delay.

[Tater]

Pita,
  Can you get one of the guy on the roof at the fishermans hut? The video still won't load for me..

Tot,  it won't load for me either.  I captured that picture this morning. 

Kinda weird,don't ya think? 

[Observer]

Oh here is one.......******* sometimes doesn't your boil just boil?

Yes..Especially when someone lies about me saying I am hacking into email accounts and other mean lies trying to get me kicked off this message board.

[Dayhiker]

Thank you for this post Anna. I just want to say that I really appreciate your level headed approach, attitude, and facts. I also appreciate your posts concerning other news that could impact the case, as last weeks updates on the Venezuela/Columbia situation.

I cannot help but think that Venezuela has a huge negative impact on Aruba's tourism and real estate business. Chavez is now threatening to "nationalize" all Columbian businesses located in Venezuela. I would hate to invest in property some 20 miles away from that madman. If there weren't already a boycot of Aruba, I would be very unlikely to plan a family vacation so near a volatile international scene. 

Quite a few MAJOR real estate investors have pulled out since we have been watching the case. I agree Bluwaters, why would anyone want to invest there? With this latest round of saber rattling, why would anyone want to vacation there or even consider a timeshare investment, the latter which have already decreased in value by half in the past two years?

[bleachedblack]

No where did Observers posts go?....am I seeing things?

Maybe we should just move forward eh? How about a joke to lighten up the place..

A redneck was stopped by a game warden in Central Mississippi recently with two ice chests full of fish. He was leaving a cove well-known for its fishing.

The game warden asked the man, 'Do you have a license to catch those fish?'

'Naw, sir', replied the redneck. 'I ain't got none of them there licenses. You must understand, these here are my pet fish.'

'Pet fish?'

'Yeah. Every night, I take these here fish down to the lake and let 'em swim 'round for awhile. Then, when I whistle, they jump right back into these here ice chests and I take 'em home.'

'That's a bunch of hooey! Fish can't do that.'

The redneck looked at the warden for a moment and then said, 'It's the truth Mr. Government Man. I'll show ya. It really works.'

'O. K.', said the warden. 'I've got to see this!'

The redneck poured the fish into the lake and stood and waited.

After several minutes, the warden says, 'Well?'

'Well, what?', says the redneck.

The warden says, 'When are you going to call them back?'

'Call who back?'

'The FISH'!, replied the warden.

'What fish?', replied the redneck.

...

Moral of the story: We may not be as smart as some city slickers, but we ain't as dumb as some government employees.

Tot
 

[Dayhiker]

SandraK has been online posting misinformation and hate since the beginning. Loranzo has really never been attacked, detained, charges, and only briefly spoken to by the police, whom seemed afraid to enter his, a 25 or so year old, yard, much less search the place.

So unless there is a deep, close relationship between her and the VDS, or an involvement by Loranzo, what is her reasoning to get involved to the point that she is malicious and guilty of working diligently to spread misinformation. I would say that Lorenzo has been a friend of Joran's almost Joran's entire life.

I would like to know the answer to that question too! 

TIMESHARE HOLDERS. Their investments have plummetted. Note most are snowbirds. 

[texasmom]

PITA,
Thanks for adding the screenshot!  Interesting indeed!   

[bleachedblack]

Oh here is one.......******* sometimes doesn't your boil just boil?

Yes..Especially when someone lies about me saying I am hacking into email accounts and other mean lies trying to get me kicked off this message board.

The case needs your knowledge and insight, count to 10.......Ohmmmmm Ohmmmmm

[Jo-An]

Pita,
  Can you get one of the guy on the roof at the fishermans hut? The video still won't load for me..

The video still works on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpxYEdXpjcw

Tot,  it won't load for me either.  I captured that picture this morning. 

[texasmom]

No where did Observers posts go?....am I seeing things?

Maybe we should just move forward eh? How about a joke to lighten up the place..

A redneck was stopped by a game warden in Central Mississippi recently with two ice chests full of fish. He was leaving a cove well-known for its fishing.

The game warden asked the man, 'Do you have a license to catch those fish?'

'Naw, sir', replied the redneck. 'I ain't got none of them there licenses. You must understand, these here are my pet fish.'

'Pet fish?'

'Yeah. Every night, I take these here fish down to the lake and let 'em swim 'round for awhile. Then, when I whistle, they jump right back into these here ice chests and I take 'em home.'

'That's a bunch of hooey! Fish can't do that.'

The redneck looked at the warden for a moment and then said, 'It's the truth Mr. Government Man. I'll show ya. It really works.'

'O. K.', said the warden. 'I've got to see this!'

The redneck poured the fish into the lake and stood and waited.

After several minutes, the warden says, 'Well?'

'Well, what?', says the redneck.

The warden says, 'When are you going to call them back?'

'Call who back?'

'The FISH'!, replied the warden.

'What fish?', replied the redneck.

...

Moral of the story: We may not be as smart as some city slickers, but we ain't as dumb as some government employees.

Tot
 

   Thanks Tot!   

[Jo-An]

Pita,
  Can you get one of the guy on the roof at the fishermans hut? The video still won't load for me..

The video still works on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpxYEdXpjcw

Tot,  it won't load for me either.  I captured that picture this morning. 

Sowwy... I messed up!! 

This is the youtube-link to the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpxYEdXpjcw

[Tamikosmom]

On BFN Chat last night, Dave Holloway has direct contact with Hans Mos for expressing any concerns he may have.  He knows better than anyone what Mos would have to say on any subject that concerns him.

Dave knows full well who is lying.  And he knows who isn't.  He is not going to be "misinformed" by any mere poster.

I was in that chat the entire time the poster Birdy was and at no time did this poster disclose anything Mos might have said to poster concerning Daury or Lorenzo as was previously posted here.  Didn't even post what the question presented to Mos was in the first place, either. 

But have no fear, Dave Holloway isn't fooled easily and will verify for himself directly with Mos any concerns he may have and has indicated he is encouraged by the response he has received.

I try to hold out a little hope that Mos is one of the good guys and is eventually going to do the right thing.  At times this is difficult but it is basically the only hope we have for any kind of prosecution at present so I do try.  I'm not even sure what alternative exists at present other than awaiting the next election in hopes of a complete change of government that may or may not happen and even then we are not assured of the desired results.

Does anyone know if Aruba has to incorporate or adapt Dutch law formally for it to be in place as the law of the land in Aruba or is that just a given that it is so?  Does their Parliament have to vote to accept a particular law or set of laws or is it a blanket acceptance?

I ask this as there was talk at one time that Aruban has no corruption laws in place.

 

In November, 2007 ... how did ten prosecution lawyers ... who concurred with the prosecutor deem that there was suffient new evidence to reopen the Natalee Holloway case ... get it so wrong.  Even John Q. Kelly ... for the first time ... had the same mindset as the defence and ... ulitmately the judge ... THERE WAS NO NEW EVIDENCE!

Either it is believed that Hans Mos is on the side of justice for Natalee Holloway or ... he is not.  Tamikosmom has concluded that the prosecutor IS NOT on the side of justice for Natalee Holloway ... he is part of the coverup.

Janet

++++++++++++


NOVEMBER, 2007 DETAINMENT - EVIDENCE
 
Hans Mos
ABC NEWS
November 26, 2007

Hans Mos, Aruba's chief prosecutor, told ABC News he believes the the new evidence makes the case against the three men stronger than it was two years.

"We are convinced if we had had this evidence we have now they would not have been released by the court at that time," Mos said.

http://sendtofriend.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3912737


Hans Mos
On the Record with Greta
November 27, 2007

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Breaking news from Aruba, Joran van der Sloot ordered to stay behind bars for at least eight more days. Now, the Kalpoe brothers already got the same news last week. Now, all three suspects were re-arrested. Why? The prosecutor has now charged all three with voluntary manslaughter of Natalee Holloway.

MOS: And this decision to re-arrest these three suspects was a decision taken by 10 lawyers, by 10 lawyers sitting around a table (INAUDIBLE) whole afternoon, being presented the new material.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313168,00.html


Hans Mos
CNN
November 30, 2007

Mos has told CNN he believes authorities have enough evidence to prove Holloway is dead, even if her body is never found. He has suggested her death was an accident.

The new evidence against the three men was gathered from advanced techniques used to re-examine existing information, including cell phone records and text messages exchanged the night Holloway disappeared, Mos has said.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html


Judge Approves Transfer for Suspect in Natalee Holloway Disappearance Case
Thursday, November 22, 2007

THE HAGUE, Netherlands —  A Dutch judge on Thursday approved the transfer to Aruba of a student suspected in the 2005 disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway on the Caribbean resort island, a prosecutor said.

Joran van der Sloot, 20, was arrested Wednesday in the central city of Arnhem on suspicion of involvement in voluntary manslaughter and causing serious bodily harm that resulted in Holloway's death.

Two other suspects, Surinamese brothers Satish and Deepak Kalpoe, were arrested in Aruba.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312568,00.html


NOVEMEBER, 2007 DETAINMENT - NEW EVIDENCE FAILS TO MATERIALIZE.

Aruban defense attorneys dispute alleged evidence in Holloway case
The Associated Press Published: December 21, 2007

ORANJESTAD, Aruba: A suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway never mentioned her death in an online chat, his lawyer said Friday, contradicting Aruban prosecutors who called the comment key new evidence in the case.

The chat log fell far short of justifying the arrest of Deepak Kalpoe, one of three men seen with the American teen the night of her disappearance, said attorney Ronald Wix.

A court in the Dutch Caribbean island agreed and quickly released Kalpoe, along with brother Satish and a third suspect, Joran van der Sloot. Now, authorities should leave the three men alone, Wix told reporters.

"If they as much as look at our clients too long, we'll take them to court," said Wix, who also represents Satish Kalpoe.

The three suspects were seen leaving a bar with Holloway on the final night of her high school graduation trip to the island.

Aruban prosecutors detailed the chat log for the first time Thursday, saying it was a key clue that they hoped would break open the long-stalled investigation. The men did not speak with investigators while detained and a judge ordered their release for lack of evidence.

Upon their release, authorities said they had reached a dead end after two years of pursuing fruitless searches and leads, though they could still prosecute the men if they uncover evidence.

In discussing the online chat, prosecutor Hans Mos told reporters that one of the suspects — he did not disclose which — wrote that Holloway, 18 at the time of disappearance, was dead. He also said Internet messages among two suspects discussed meeting drunk American girls in Aruba.

Wix said the prosecution misinterpreted Deepak Kalpoe's Internet chats.
The 24-year-old native of Suriname in fact told a friend he was upset and thought it was stupid of him to let Holloway, whom he called a drunk stranger, get into his car, the attorney said.

Kalpoe then commented on the death of a tennis teacher who drowned in Aruba almost three years ago. When prosecutors translated his writing from Papiamento to Dutch, they substituted 'the death' to 'her death,' and assumed he was talking about Holloway, Wix said. Most Arubans speak Papiamento, a Creole language that has absorbed words from Spanish, Dutch, English and Portuguese.

Mos was on vacation Friday and could not be reached for a response. Another prosecutor, Dop Kruimel, did not immediately return phone calls seeking comment.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/12/21/news/CB-GEN-Aruba-Missing-Teen.php


John Q. Kelly
On the Record w/ Greta
December 4, 2007

KELLY: Well, in their press release and even in conversations. I had a long discussion with him Thanksgiving morning after the arrests, and you know, he indicated that they were very confident, this new evidence they had, this incriminating evidence. And it turns out, quite frankly, that it is nothing new ...

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So you can say with 100 percent certainly there's nothing new, right?

KELLY: I can say it with 99 percent.

<snipped>

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY ATTORNEY: Disappointing, Greta. I think it was disappointing to me and actually extraordinarily painful and almost cruel for Beth and Dave after being down there.

They'd like to get some answers and they'd like to see some progress made. And it's not fair to bring them down there with the false promises, with raised expectations, sort of a dog and pony show down there with no substance.

And it was — it just really took whatever spirit, almost, that Beth and Dave had left, went through that this weekend. It was really — it was terribly painful, for lack of a better expression.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314966,00.html
 

Jug Twitty
DANA PRETZER
December 21, 2007

TWITTY: ... she (Beth) said that the prosecutor lied to them when he told them that there was new evidence.
Transcript - Heli (RU)


Joe Tacopina - Defense Attorney
THE LINEUP
December 2, 2007

There's no new evidence, look we're here in December now, they accept their own deadline for December 31. I've seen the 14 pages, there's no new evidence and there's certainly no new incriminating evidence ...
Transcript - Heli (RU)


Ronald Wix
Associated Press
December 20, 2007

Ronald Wix, an attorney for the Kalpoe brothers, denied that prosecutors had new evidence.

"All they did was recycle old evidence and claim it was new evidence," Wix said ...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22345541/

[Nut44x4]

SANDRAK IS NOT LORENZO'S MUM
 

[San]

I don't like to see two posters who have contributed so much argue and fight.  I realize their opinions differ on a certain topic and there seems to be no resolution to that.

Tot gave good advice in saying let's move on.  It is not going to solve anything by continuing to fight amongst ourselves.

[klaasend]

SANDRAK IS NOT LORENZO'S MUM
 

Nut is correct - SandraK is not Lorenzo's mom

[Finbar]

On BFN Chat last night, Dave Holloway has direct contact with Hans Mos for expressing any concerns he may have.   He knows better than anyone what Mos would have to say on any subject that concerns him.

Dave knows full well who is lying.  And he knows who isn't.  He is not going to be "misinformed" by any mere poster.

I was in that chat the entire time the poster Birdy was and at no time did this poster disclose anything Mos might have said to poster concerning Daury or Lorenzo as was previously posted here.  Didn't even post what the question presented to Mos was in the first place, either. 

But have no fear, Dave Holloway isn't fooled easily and will verify for himself directly with Mos any concerns he may have and has indicated he is encouraged by the response he has received.

I try to hold out a little hope that Mos is one of the good guys and is eventually going to do the right thing.  At times this is difficult but it is basically the only hope we have for any kind of prosecution at present so I do try.  I'm not even sure what alternative exists at present other than awaiting the next election in hopes of a complete change of government that may or may not happen and even then we are not assured of the desired results.

Does anyone know if Aruba has to incorporate or adapt Dutch law formally for it to be in place as the law of the land in Aruba or is that just a given that it is so?  Does their Parliament have to vote to accept a particular law or set of laws or is it a blanket acceptance?

I ask this as there was talk at one time that Aruban has no corruption laws in place.

.

Anna your a liar and you are caught red handed on many things and I have it all documented..You AKA Birdy did say last night you were in contact with Mos by phone and email and you said Mos told you Lorenzo has connection to this case whatsoever. Everyone knows it was you posing as Birdy and everyone knows you aren't in contact with Mos by Telephone or email. The chat was sent to me and you are caught once again as well as the dozens of other times you have lied about Lorenzo.

You also stated you never heard of Lorenzo until well into the Investigation another lie,That you have been in contact with the psychics that said he wasnt involved and your posts all around the net lying about Lorenzo. You have stated well over 100 times he isn't involved and have done that now for over 32 months on every message board. As well as your recent threats contacting his Lawyers and hoping he sues people.

We know such little truth regarding many things but you lying to Dave and everyone else about Lorenzo is not acceptable.

[jackb]

Oh Bearly...You are sooooooooo Sweet...garsh darn...you warm my heart....yep....I tend to stay logged in on a tab...ever since the big melt down in here...I don't take chances on getting booted out...if that is a big no-no for the cage...someone needs to let me know....

Hi Destiny! You know what?  I too stay in the Monkey cage and dont shut the page down, except to reboot every couple of days or so. I do that because it takes me SO long to get back into the cage because of my internet issues here, plus the pop ups. I sit here 24/7 for the most part, and that's the reason. Also, if I have a LOT of reading to do in the cage, I open a second window and switch back and forth...while reading one page, the next page is loading. One of the many blessings of living so far out in the country is that we dont have high speed connections available to us way out here for anything less then $700 initial set up fee, and I cant justify that.   

Hey Destiny, would you E mail me some info about your resport, please? It sounded wonderful! My E mail is njackson1245@neto.com
Thanks!

Hey Gabby!

I too live in the *boonies*  was the first one to get WIFI and DSL up here on the mountain...had to install it ourselves...the local phone guys watched how we did it...too funny!

For $700. they must be trying to charge you for the fiber optics too LOL..

Sending you email....
[/quote]  Try using the firefox browser.  You can download it and use it for your homepage.
Use that and it and yahoo's toolbar.  Mic Explorer and be used to get on if you need to then get your home page on and "x" out the MS page or just go on with the firefix browser if you make that your home page.  It does not cost anything.  If you have questions I will try to answer them.  There are ways around anything, even those maxad popups totally if you use a laptop and yahoo or roadrunner.     Jack b

[Dayhiker]

So, as I understand it, Aruba is only nominally a member of the Kingdom. They receive no money for aid. What does the Netherlands do to keep Aruba under their wing? Should Venezuela attack and try to claim Aruba, I assume the Dutch would defend the island?
Does Aruba do anything beneficial for the Kingdom?
Does the Queen ever visit Aruba?

Here's my problem with the Dutch saying they are powerless to do anything about it it. Jannsen, Van der Straten, Wit, Simid and others all came from Holland to work there. Mans Mos is from Holland as is Dop Kruimel. Joran, Guido, the Gottenbos, Jannsen and others have fled to Holland for safety.

The two governments are intertwined. Holland provides government services to Aruba. All the judges in Aruba and Coracacao and Binnaire are provided by Holland. Somebody has to take responsibility and it seems to me the country of origin is a good place to start.

This crime and the ensuing cover-up were not commited by a bunch of Arubans.