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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #742 3/10 - 3/14/08  (Read 299059 times)
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #700 on: March 13, 2008, 06:51:48 PM »

Quote
"Liar, Liar"  Submitted: 03/13/2008
snip
Lynn Garner-Robbins, owner and President of Voice Analysis Technologies in Madison, says, "People lie because they're emotionally attached to something, People will lie because they're trying to cover up for someone they love."
snip
She helped create a program that can detect if you're lying...even if you don't know you're doing it.

Garner-Robbins says, "If I asked you where you lived and you said Rhinelander, Wisconsin and you really lived in Eagle River, you may not have meant to deceive me but you didn't think I knew where Eagle River was and thought I knew where Rhinelander was so you used Rhinelander which showed inaccuracy."

It's called layered voice analysis and it can not only tell if you're lying through a real-time interview but it can also tell if you're lying through a previously recorded statement such as the statement made by Bill Clinton about Monica Lewinsky and the interview of Joran Van der Sloot about Natalie Holloway.

The computer software is based on the frequency in our voice and can detect almost anything.

Garner-Robbins says, "So when you're speaking I see deception, truthfulness, inaccuracy, probable false, high excitement, stress."

The technology can also point out embarassment, drug usage or mental illness.

And it's not limited to English.

While hundreds of Law Enforcement agencies around the state and the country use this software, Garner-Robbins is hoping her program will soon be used for insurance fraud, law enforcement on sex offenders and military intelligence.

Garner-Robbins adds, "It's a means of getting information without the impositions of doing some of the things that we hear about in the news like waterboarding and other tactics."

And while everyone lies, she hopes her tactics will make sure no one gets away with it.

Lynn Garner-Robbins says her software isn't admissible in court right now, but she believes that will change in the future.

Written By: Chad Silber


http://www.wjfw.com/email_story.html?SKU=20080313155051

Where have I heard about voice analysis before?
Logged

All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
Kermit
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« Reply #701 on: March 13, 2008, 06:53:32 PM »

I miss him too

I miss him also.  Very kind to me, always comments on my comments, I do appreciate him.

Just to make it clear, ******* is not banned. 


Exodus 8:28-32 Integrity is giving your word and keeping it.

From what I read, ******* appears to have integrity.
I hope he comes back.







It is very discouraging when you give your all to the cause of justice for Natalee and ... then your integrity is negated through accusations.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2694.new#new

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ldstlou
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« Reply #702 on: March 13, 2008, 06:57:10 PM »

Posted by Kyle at BFN when someone posted about Psychics:

I hope you don't find this deflating.  Many of you probably won't want to hear this, but it's what we've observed in the field. 
The Aruban police had on file a 9" thick stack of psychic "revelations" ranging from the absolutely absurd to the plausible, to the down right convincing.  These statements came from literally hundreds of opportunist psychics from around the world coming out of woodwork.  The only thing all each of these statements had in common is that they all had remarkable inconsistencies in them which made them provably bogus based on case information not made public.  In short, I believe some people are truly gifted with fantastic imaginations and passions but we as humans are not made to know the future. If a psychic nailed every detail of this case retrospectively, they should be arrested for their involvement. The statements which were very convincing could be replicated based on a solid handle on the publicly available case information with gaps imaginatively filled in.  The problem in putting too much faith in these people is that it inevitably leads to wasting a lot of time and resources and will frustrate the team tremendously.  While in the field, we received literally hundreds of leads from psychics who knew with "absolute certainty" where Natalee's body was.  The danger in a case like this is losing hope.  When we lose hope, we cling on to anything we've got.  This makes us very susceptible to being deceived.  We want to believe someone has the answers and is capable of handing those answers over to us on a silver platter.  The problem is this just isn't reality.  It never will be.  It's a cruel realization but the sooner it's accepted the faster one can sort through the deception to find the answers based on evidence which will hold up in court.

What a great post. And the danger in this case IS losing hope. None of us have lost hope or we would stop coming here. So many keep the faith, I learned that in doing my small part at the St Louis Travel Show. My part was small, taking a Sunday off,  making calls and e-mails and yet there were moments I wanted to quit, there really were. So many people are so willing to send you their blessings, but to get people to actually take a stand, take a Sunday off, it's not easy!!! But there are so many people dedicated to finding Justice for Natalee, that the Spirit of Natalee and Justice just picks you up and keeps you going!!! It is a miraculous thing to me.

You see the miracle working right here, Klaas, is a miracle to me!!! How do you do what Klaas does day in and day out without seeing results? How do you do that? I don't have the answer other than she is just an exceptional woman. And Koolkat and Justice for Natalee, how do you keep giving every month, travel show after travel show, spending money and time that really must have an affect on your life and your family after 3 years. And I am sorry for those I haven't mentioned, the list just goes on and on!!!!

And how does Beth do it? How do you go to Aruba expecting "new evidence" and instead get interrogated for 5 hours and yet still have enough faith to get a call from Peter DeVries saying "I think I've got something", and not knowing whether it is "something" or not, just blindly jump on a plane and go?
And how do you watch the man you know ended your daughter's life admit he was there and watched Natalee in distress and instead of calling for help say I threw her into the ocean and never lost a night of sleep and be able to get out of bed each day and fight back? How do you do that??!!!
The answer as Beth so eloquently explains, is Faith and Hope.

Faith is something the Monkeys have an abundance of. Faith and hope is what draws me back day in and day out to Scared Monkeys. Faith and Hope is what makes me so damned proud to say I am a part of this special group of people. And like with every "family" we have our squabbles. But just remember as we agree and disagree in our discussions, that yes we are family, and we will over look our squabbles, but with every TV show, with every show Dana has on, with every travel show we work, we invite new members into our world of Faith and Hope, and we just have to be careful how we treat each other and careful of the message we send out.
I learned this the hard way!!! lol My own brother was shocked and appalled by my Fat Bastard MIP6 and my Chuckierat. lol Never for a moment did I stop and think of how it looked to people who did not know the story. So, I just want to say, be gentle with each other, be aware of our new visitors, keep the Faith and the Hope...AND KLAAS SO ROCKS!!!!
Logged

"No justice for Natalee - No tourists for Aruba!"
Destiny
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« Reply #703 on: March 13, 2008, 07:01:42 PM »

Since it is slow...thought I'd share this...enjoy!

Sent to me by a friend....had to share..Destiny Wink

WAX is Not your Friend

All hair removal methods have tricked women with their promises of easy, painless removal - The epilady, scissors, razors, Nair and now...the wax.

My night began as any other normal weeknight. Come home, fix dinner, play with the kids. I then had the thought that would ring painfully in my mind for the next few hours: "Maybe I should pull the waxing kit out of the medicine cabinet." So I headed to the site of my demise: the bathroom.

It was one of those "cold wax" kits. No melting a clump of hot wax, you just rub the strips together in your hand, they get warm and you peel them apart and press them to your leg (or wherever else) and you pull the hair right off. No muss, no fuss. How hard can it be? I mean, I'm not a genius, but I am mechanically inclined enough to figure this out. (YA THINK!?!)

So I pull one of the thin strips out. Its two strips facing each other stuck together. Instead of rubbing them together, my genius kicks in so I get out the hair dryer and heat it to 1000 degrees. ("Cold wax," yeah...right! ) I lay the strip across my thigh. Hold the skin around it tight and pull. It works!

OK, so it wasn't the best feeling, but it wasn't too bad. I can do this! Hair removal no longer eludes me! I am She-rah, fighter of all wayward body hair and maker of smooth skin extraordinaire.

With my next wax strip I move north. After checking on the kids, I sneak back into the bathroom, for the ultimate hair fighting championship. I drop my panties and place one foot on the toilet. Using the same procedure, I apply! the one strip across the right side of my bikini line, covering the right half of my *hoo-hoo* and stretching down to the inside of my butt cheek (Yes, it was a long strip) I inhale deeply and brace myself....RRRRIIIPP P!!!!

I'm blind!!! Blinded from pain!!!!.... OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!! Vision returning, I notice that I've only managed to pull off half the strip. CRAP!!!

Another deep breath and RRIIPP!! Everything is swirly and spotted. I think I may pass out...must stay conscious... Do I hear crashing drums??? Breathe, breathe...OK, back to normal.

I want to see my trophy - a wax covered strip, the one that has caused me so much pain, with my hairy pelt sticking to it. I want to revel in the glory that is my triumph over body hair. I hold up the strip! There's no hair on it. Where is the hair??? WHERE IS THE WAX???

Slowly I ease my head down, foot still perched on the toilet. I see the hair. The hair that should be on the strip. I touch. I am touching wax.

CRAP! I run my fingers over the most sensitive part of my body, which is now covered in cold wax and matted hair. Then I make the next BIG mistake...remember my foot is still propped up
on the toilet? I know I need to do something. So I put my foot down.

DANG!!!!!!!! I hear the slamming of a cell door. *hoo-hoo*? Sealed shut!

Butt?? Sealed shut!

I penguin walk around the bathroom trying to figure out what to do and think to myself "Please don't let me get the urge to poop. My head may pop off!" What can I do to melt the wax? Hot water!! Hot water melts wax!!!

I'll run the hottest water I can stand into the bathtub, get in, immerse the wax-covered bits and the wax should melt and I can gently wipe it off, right??? WRONG!!!!!!!

I get in the tub - the water is slightly hotter than that used to torture prisoners of war or sterilize surgical equipment - I sit.

Now, the only thing worse than having your nether regions glued together is having them glued together and then glued to the bottom of the tub...in scalding hot water Which, by the way, doesn't melt cold wax.

So, now I'm stuck to the bottom of the tub as though I had cement-epoxied myself to the porcelain!!

God bless the man who had convinced me a few months ago to have a phone put in the bathroom!!!! !

I call my friend, thinking surely she has waxed before and has some secret of how to get me undone. It's a very good conversation starter - "So, my butt and who-ha are glued together to the bottom of the tub!"

There is a slight pause. She doesn't know any secret tricks for removal but she does try to hide her laughter from me. She wants to know exactly where the wax is located, "Are we talking cheeks or who-ha?"

She's laughing out loud by now...I can hear her. I give her the rundown and she suggests I call the number on the side of the box YEAH!!!!! Right!! I should be the joke of someone else's night.

While we go through various solutions. I resort to scraping the wax off with a razor. Nothing feels better then to have your girlie goodies covered in hot wax, glued shut, stuck to the tub in super hot water and then dry-shaving the sticky wax off!!

By now the brain is not working, dignity has taken a major hike and I'm pretty sure I'm going to need Post-Traumatic Stress counseling for this event.

My friend is still talking with me when I finally see my saving grace....the lotion they give you to remove the excess wax. What do I really have to lose at this point? I rub some on and OH MY GOD!!!!!!! The scream probably woke the kids and scared the dickens out of my friend.

It's sooo painful, but I really don't care. "IT WORKS!! It works!!" I get a hearty congratulation from my friend and she hangs up.

I successfully remove the remainder of the wax and then notice to my grief and despair....! THE HAIR IS STILL THERE....... ALL OF IT!!!!!!!!!! So I recklessly shave it off. Heck, I'm numb by now. Nothing hurts. I could have amputated my own leg at this point.

Next week I'm going to try hair color...... Now that's funny ........
Notttttttttt
Logged

I Stand With The Girl *NATALEE HOLLOWAY*

Aruba Beware *AN ANGEL LIKE NO OTHER* has fallen amongst you....may you know the fury of HEAVEN!
Pita
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« Reply #704 on: March 13, 2008, 07:13:20 PM »

I miss him too

I miss him also.  Very kind to me, always comments on my comments, I do appreciate him.

Just to make it clear, ******* is not banned. 


Exodus 8:28-32 Integrity is giving your word and keeping it.

From what I read, ******* appears to have integrity.
I hope he comes back.







It is very discouraging when you give your all to the cause of justice for Natalee and ... then your integrity is negated through accusations.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2694.new#new


******* needs to come back.  It's not the same here without him.  


~~COME BACK *******~~
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ldstlou
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« Reply #705 on: March 13, 2008, 07:19:26 PM »

Posted by Kyle at BFN when someone posted about Psychics:

I hope you don't find this deflating.  Many of you probably won't want to hear this, but it's what we've observed in the field. 
The Aruban police had on file a 9" thick stack of psychic "revelations" ranging from the absolutely absurd to the plausible, to the down right convincing.  These statements came from literally hundreds of opportunist psychics from around the world coming out of woodwork.  The only thing all each of these statements had in common is that they all had remarkable inconsistencies in them which made them provably bogus based on case information not made public.  In short, I believe some people are truly gifted with fantastic imaginations and passions but we as humans are not made to know the future. If a psychic nailed every detail of this case retrospectively, they should be arrested for their involvement. The statements which were very convincing could be replicated based on a solid handle on the publicly available case information with gaps imaginatively filled in.  The problem in putting too much faith in these people is that it inevitably leads to wasting a lot of time and resources and will frustrate the team tremendously.  While in the field, we received literally hundreds of leads from psychics who knew with "absolute certainty" where Natalee's body was.  The danger in a case like this is losing hope.  When we lose hope, we cling on to anything we've got.  This makes us very susceptible to being deceived.  We want to believe someone has the answers and is capable of handing those answers over to us on a silver platter.  The problem is this just isn't reality.  It never will be.  It's a cruel realization but the sooner it's accepted the faster one can sort through the deception to find the answers based on evidence which will hold up in court.

What a great post. And the danger in this case IS losing hope. None of us have lost hope or we would stop coming here. So many keep the faith, I learned that in doing my small part at the St Louis Travel Show. My part was small, taking a Sunday off,  making calls and e-mails and yet there were moments I wanted to quit, there really were. So many people are so willing to send you their blessings, but to get people to actually take a stand, take a Sunday off, it's not easy!!! But there are so many people dedicated to finding Justice for Natalee, that the Spirit of Natalee and Justice just picks you up and keeps you going!!! It is a miraculous thing to me.

You see the miracle working right here, Klaas, is a miracle to me!!! How do you do what Klaas does day in and day out without seeing results? How do you do that? I don't have the answer other than she is just an exceptional woman. And Koolkat and Justice for Natalee, how do you keep giving every month, travel show after travel show, spending money and time that really must have an affect on your life and your family after 3 years. And I am sorry for those I haven't mentioned, the list just goes on and on!!!!

And how does Beth do it? How do you go to Aruba expecting "new evidence" and instead get interrogated for 5 hours and yet still have enough faith to get a call from Peter DeVries saying "I think I've got something", and not knowing whether it is "something" or not, just blindly jump on a plane and go?
And how do you watch the man you know ended your daughter's life admit he was there and watched Natalee in distress and instead of calling for help say I threw her into the ocean and never lost a night of sleep and be able to get out of bed each day and fight back? How do you do that??!!!
The answer as Beth so eloquently explains, is Faith and Hope.

Faith is something the Monkeys have an abundance of. Faith and hope is what draws me back day in and day out to Scared Monkeys. Faith and Hope is what makes me so damned proud to say I am a part of this special group of people. And like with every "family" we have our squabbles. But just remember as we agree and disagree in our discussions, that yes we are family, and we will over look our squabbles, but with every TV show, with every show Dana has on, with every travel show we work, we invite new members into our world of Faith and Hope, and we just have to be careful how we treat each other and careful of the message we send out.
I learned this the hard way!!! lol My own brother was shocked and appalled by my Fat Bastard MIP6 and my Chuckierat. lol Never for a moment did I stop and think of how it looked to people who did not know the story. So, I just want to say, be gentle with each other, be aware of our new visitors, keep the Faith and the Hope...AND KLAAS SO ROCKS!!!!

******* and Anna, we need you BOTH back!!! You are both part of this "disfunctional family" we call Scared Monkeys!!! lol

We Stand for the Girl!!!!!
Logged

"No justice for Natalee - No tourists for Aruba!"
bluwaters
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« Reply #706 on: March 13, 2008, 07:28:09 PM »

Private Eye

I worked for the Provincial Telecommunication Company ... right out of high school (17 years old) and ... took a retirement package 40 years later.  I took a 10 year break in between to be at home with my two eldest.  I held several positions within the company over the years but ... my final position was this wannabe detective's dream job.  Using a locator system ... I traced missing/stolen equipment of VERY high value.

Sometimes I wish I had not been so anxious to take that retirement package ... I really miss my job and ... the people.

Thank you for asking.

Have a good day Monkeys ... I am off.

Janet


Janet

No doubt they miss you too! I am in awe of your lightning speed posts of relevant documents. You are always spot on!

SeaSearcher 

I am missing ******* and Anna.  I hope that they will return soon.

A big shout out to the Dutch posters and the great work on translations!

**********

I do believe that the arrest on J2K in Nov 07 was simply trumped up to make it appear that Aruba had done everything possible before closing the case. It also served to raise the bar higher on any subsequent request for arrest. It looks to me that the tactic worked, as we know the claim of "new evidence" was a lie and even led to further harassment of Beth and Dave by the "investigators" on Aruba.

Did Joran know that Patrick was taping him? I doubt it, especially as the case was officially closed and, due to the taped conversations, is now open again. Even if Joran thought that he could help 2K's case with Dr. Phil and be rewarded with lots of $$$, it seems that reopening the investigation would be too much of risk. On the other hand, Joran is a risk taker and greedy too. He may be smart, but the boy's got no sense, IMO. 

Logged
JE
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« Reply #707 on: March 13, 2008, 07:37:09 PM »

Quote
"Liar, Liar"  Submitted: 03/13/2008
snip
Lynn Garner-Robbins, owner and President of Voice Analysis Technologies in Madison, says, "People lie because they're emotionally attached to something, People will lie because they're trying to cover up for someone they love."
snip
She helped create a program that can detect if you're lying...even if you don't know you're doing it.

Garner-Robbins says, "If I asked you where you lived and you said Rhinelander, Wisconsin and you really lived in Eagle River, you may not have meant to deceive me but you didn't think I knew where Eagle River was and thought I knew where Rhinelander was so you used Rhinelander which showed inaccuracy."

It's called layered voice analysis and it can not only tell if you're lying through a real-time interview but it can also tell if you're lying through a previously recorded statement such as the statement made by Bill Clinton about Monica Lewinsky and the interview of Joran Van der Sloot about Natalie Holloway.

The computer software is based on the frequency in our voice and can detect almost anything.

Garner-Robbins says, "So when you're speaking I see deception, truthfulness, inaccuracy, probable false, high excitement, stress."

The technology can also point out embarassment, drug usage or mental illness.

And it's not limited to English.

While hundreds of Law Enforcement agencies around the state and the country use this software, Garner-Robbins is hoping her program will soon be used for insurance fraud, law enforcement on sex offenders and military intelligence.

Garner-Robbins adds, "It's a means of getting information without the impositions of doing some of the things that we hear about in the news like waterboarding and other tactics."

And while everyone lies, she hopes her tactics will make sure no one gets away with it.

Lynn Garner-Robbins says her software isn't admissible in court right now, but she believes that will change in the future.

Written By: Chad Silber


http://www.wjfw.com/email_story.html?SKU=20080313155051

Where have I heard about voice analysis before?

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/03/10/joran-van-der-sloot-so-the-media-thinks-he-is-suddenly-telling-the-truth-huh/
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LilPuma
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« Reply #708 on: March 13, 2008, 07:38:20 PM »

My monthly fly-by before dinner or bed or whatever.  I just want to keep my name in the Stand with the Girl roster and let those of you holding down the fort know that while I don't post here, I'm still with you.  I stopped trying to keep up with all the threads and posts a long time ago, but I wanted to comment on the few I just read. 

I like Anna and *******'s posts.  Hopefully they'll both come back after a cooling off period.  Don't really know what all that was about. 

I only use gentle depilatories for said bikini waxing.  Have aloe lotion or leaf ready afterward is my advice.  Funny post. 

I've been "in love" with DeVries and I think maybe EURobert and now Patrick, since I've read he said he has never hurt an animal and never would.  I liked hearing that even the bad guys think that drugging, raping and killing an 18 year old woman makes you scum. 

The only way a psychic is going to help in this case is if they had a reliable one (proven track record with police work) working with an investigator.  Psychics aren't omniscient, but they can help.  If you have a chance to watch psychic detectives on Court TV, do it.  You'll see how they work.  No hocus pocus about it.  Just people with a gift adding bits and pieces to the investigation. 

I wish there was news.  But as someone said, we have an abundance of faith. 
Logged

Our deeds are seeds and by them, we plant the world we will walk through tomorrow
WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #709 on: March 13, 2008, 07:49:28 PM »

Voice Analysis - I wonder how many people have made use of Joran's many public interviews?  I wonder how many would make a study of his recorded ALE interrogations?

Zoltan Zion had a piece on his site about voice analsys and it pointed to National Geographic of all places!   

Quote
Nothing but the Truth

A couple of months ago, a number of major news outlets got all fired up about a planned security measure at Moscow's Domodedovo International Airport. The source of their excitement? The GK1 voice analysis system, which Moscow expects to implement by July. The reports described the device as a lie detector, which the airport was quick to deny. Thankfully, IT has come along to set the record straight.

The airport is right in saying that the device (which poses questions on a screen that travelers answer out loud) is not technically a lie detector, as standard-issue polygraphs measure physiological phenomena like blood pressure and sweat production, not voice. (The "deception detection" community questions the validity of voice as a stress measurement tool.) Still, the lady doth appear to protest a little too much. After all, the avowed purpose of the device is to detect the "psychological and emotional state" of passengers to determine whether they are "about to commit a crime."
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/traveler/extras/blog/blog0605_5.html

and

Rise of the Machines: Surveillance Software Gets Smart
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/02/0222_060222_wiretapping.html

Logged

All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #710 on: March 13, 2008, 07:57:41 PM »

My monthly fly-by before dinner or bed or whatever.  I just want to keep my name in the Stand with the Girl roster and let those of you holding down the fort know that while I don't post here, I'm still with you.  I stopped trying to keep up with all the threads and posts a long time ago, but I wanted to comment on the few I just read. 

I like Anna and *******'s posts.  Hopefully they'll both come back after a cooling off period.  Don't really know what all that was about. 

I only use gentle depilatories for said bikini waxing.  Have aloe lotion or leaf ready afterward is my advice.  Funny post. 

I've been "in love" with DeVries and I think maybe EURobert and now Patrick, since I've read he said he has never hurt an animal and never would.  I liked hearing that even the bad guys think that drugging, raping and killing an 18 year old woman makes you scum. 

The only way a psychic is going to help in this case is if they had a reliable one (proven track record with police work) working with an investigator.  Psychics aren't omniscient, but they can help.  If you have a chance to watch psychic detectives on Court TV, do it.  You'll see how they work.  No hocus pocus about it.  Just people with a gift adding bits and pieces to the investigation. 

I wish there was news.  But as someone said, we have an abundance of faith. 

Anna and ******* have certainly left behind a mystery.   

I hope they find their way back.
Logged

All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
LilPuma
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« Reply #711 on: March 13, 2008, 08:09:39 PM »

It's a shame that anything or anyone from One Crappy Island could cause a rift between monkeys.  Shouldn't happen. 

The bigger mystery is why no one from The Hague (or whoever ALE answers to), has handed out any reprimands or anything in this case in spite of the ridiculous way the whole thing was handled. 
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Our deeds are seeds and by them, we plant the world we will walk through tomorrow
private eye
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« Reply #712 on: March 13, 2008, 08:16:49 PM »

Posted by Kyle at BFN when someone posted about Psychics:

I hope you don't find this deflating.  Many of you probably won't want to hear this, but it's what we've observed in the field. 
The Aruban police had on file a 9" thick stack of psychic "revelations" ranging from the absolutely absurd to the plausible, to the down right convincing.  These statements came from literally hundreds of opportunist psychics from around the world coming out of woodwork.  The only thing all each of these statements had in common is that they all had remarkable inconsistencies in them which made them provably bogus based on case information not made public.  In short, I believe some people are truly gifted with fantastic imaginations and passions but we as humans are not made to know the future. If a psychic nailed every detail of this case retrospectively, they should be arrested for their involvement. The statements which were very convincing could be replicated based on a solid handle on the publicly available case information with gaps imaginatively filled in.  The problem in putting too much faith in these people is that it inevitably leads to wasting a lot of time and resources and will frustrate the team tremendously.  While in the field, we received literally hundreds of leads from psychics who knew with "absolute certainty" where Natalee's body was.  The danger in a case like this is losing hope.  When we lose hope, we cling on to anything we've got.  This makes us very susceptible to being deceived.  We want to believe someone has the answers and is capable of handing those answers over to us on a silver platter.  The problem is this just isn't reality.  It never will be.  It's a cruel realization but the sooner it's accepted the faster one can sort through the deception to find the answers based on evidence which will hold up in court.

What a great post. And the danger in this case IS losing hope. None of us have lost hope or we would stop coming here. So many keep the faith, I learned that in doing my small part at the St Louis Travel Show. My part was small, taking a Sunday off,  making calls and e-mails and yet there were moments I wanted to quit, there really were. So many people are so willing to send you their blessings, but to get people to actually take a stand, take a Sunday off, it's not easy!!! But there are so many people dedicated to finding Justice for Natalee, that the Spirit of Natalee and Justice just picks you up and keeps you going!!! It is a miraculous thing to me.

You see the miracle working right here, Klaas, is a miracle to me!!! How do you do what Klaas does day in and day out without seeing results? How do you do that? I don't have the answer other than she is just an exceptional woman. And Koolkat and Justice for Natalee, how do you keep giving every month, travel show after travel show, spending money and time that really must have an affect on your life and your family after 3 years. And I am sorry for those I haven't mentioned, the list just goes on and on!!!!

And how does Beth do it? How do you go to Aruba expecting "new evidence" and instead get interrogated for 5 hours and yet still have enough faith to get a call from Peter DeVries saying "I think I've got something", and not knowing whether it is "something" or not, just blindly jump on a plane and go?
And how do you watch the man you know ended your daughter's life admit he was there and watched Natalee in distress and instead of calling for help say I threw her into the ocean and never lost a night of sleep and be able to get out of bed each day and fight back? How do you do that??!!!
The answer as Beth so eloquently explains, is Faith and Hope.

Faith is something the Monkeys have an abundance of. Faith and hope is what draws me back day in and day out to Scared Monkeys. Faith and Hope is what makes me so damned proud to say I am a part of this special group of people. And like with every "family" we have our squabbles. But just remember as we agree and disagree in our discussions, that yes we are family, and we will over look our squabbles, but with every TV show, with every show Dana has on, with every travel show we work, we invite new members into our world of Faith and Hope, and we just have to be careful how we treat each other and careful of the message we send out.
I learned this the hard way!!! lol My own brother was shocked and appalled by my Fat Bastard MIP6 and my Chuckierat. lol Never for a moment did I stop and think of how it looked to people who did not know the story. So, I just want to say, be gentle with each other, be aware of our new visitors, keep the Faith and the Hope...AND KLAAS SO ROCKS!!!!

I think we needed your spirit right about now:) Klaas is the rock of the place, the momma sometimes, and when she has to she can kick ass like the daddy:) But regardless, she shows up every day, ready to deal with whatever behavior we have decided to bring to the cage that day. And despite the trials and tribulations of her day, she always has a kind word for those who need it, or that little fact that we are trying to remember:) Thank you Klaas.
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« Reply #713 on: March 13, 2008, 08:21:44 PM »

Since it is slow...thought I'd share this...enjoy!

Sent to me by a friend....had to share..Destiny Wink

WAX is Not your Friend

All hair removal methods have tricked women with their promises of easy, painless removal - The epilady, scissors, razors, Nair and now...the wax.

My night began as any other normal weeknight. Come home, fix dinner, play with the kids. I then had the thought that would ring painfully in my mind for the next few hours: "Maybe I should pull the waxing kit out of the medicine cabinet." So I headed to the site of my demise: the bathroom.

It was one of those "cold wax" kits. No melting a clump of hot wax, you just rub the strips together in your hand, they get warm and you peel them apart and press them to your leg (or wherever else) and you pull the hair right off. No muss, no fuss. How hard can it be? I mean, I'm not a genius, but I am mechanically inclined enough to figure this out. (YA THINK!?!)

So I pull one of the thin strips out. Its two strips facing each other stuck together. Instead of rubbing them together, my genius kicks in so I get out the hair dryer and heat it to 1000 degrees. ("Cold wax," yeah...right! ) I lay the strip across my thigh. Hold the skin around it tight and pull. It works!

OK, so it wasn't the best feeling, but it wasn't too bad. I can do this! Hair removal no longer eludes me! I am She-rah, fighter of all wayward body hair and maker of smooth skin extraordinaire.

With my next wax strip I move north. After checking on the kids, I sneak back into the bathroom, for the ultimate hair fighting championship. I drop my panties and place one foot on the toilet. Using the same procedure, I apply! the one strip across the right side of my bikini line, covering the right half of my *hoo-hoo* and stretching down to the inside of my butt cheek (Yes, it was a long strip) I inhale deeply and brace myself....RRRRIIIPP P!!!!

I'm blind!!! Blinded from pain!!!!.... OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!! Vision returning, I notice that I've only managed to pull off half the strip. CRAP!!!

Another deep breath and RRIIPP!! Everything is swirly and spotted. I think I may pass out...must stay conscious... Do I hear crashing drums??? Breathe, breathe...OK, back to normal.

I want to see my trophy - a wax covered strip, the one that has caused me so much pain, with my hairy pelt sticking to it. I want to revel in the glory that is my triumph over body hair. I hold up the strip! There's no hair on it. Where is the hair??? WHERE IS THE WAX???

Slowly I ease my head down, foot still perched on the toilet. I see the hair. The hair that should be on the strip. I touch. I am touching wax.

CRAP! I run my fingers over the most sensitive part of my body, which is now covered in cold wax and matted hair. Then I make the next BIG mistake...remember my foot is still propped up
on the toilet? I know I need to do something. So I put my foot down.

DANG!!!!!!!! I hear the slamming of a cell door. *hoo-hoo*? Sealed shut!

Butt?? Sealed shut!

I penguin walk around the bathroom trying to figure out what to do and think to myself "Please don't let me get the urge to poop. My head may pop off!" What can I do to melt the wax? Hot water!! Hot water melts wax!!!

I'll run the hottest water I can stand into the bathtub, get in, immerse the wax-covered bits and the wax should melt and I can gently wipe it off, right??? WRONG!!!!!!!

I get in the tub - the water is slightly hotter than that used to torture prisoners of war or sterilize surgical equipment - I sit.

Now, the only thing worse than having your nether regions glued together is having them glued together and then glued to the bottom of the tub...in scalding hot water Which, by the way, doesn't melt cold wax.

So, now I'm stuck to the bottom of the tub as though I had cement-epoxied myself to the porcelain!!

God bless the man who had convinced me a few months ago to have a phone put in the bathroom!!!! !

I call my friend, thinking surely she has waxed before and has some secret of how to get me undone. It's a very good conversation starter - "So, my butt and who-ha are glued together to the bottom of the tub!"

There is a slight pause. She doesn't know any secret tricks for removal but she does try to hide her laughter from me. She wants to know exactly where the wax is located, "Are we talking cheeks or who-ha?"

She's laughing out loud by now...I can hear her. I give her the rundown and she suggests I call the number on the side of the box YEAH!!!!! Right!! I should be the joke of someone else's night.

While we go through various solutions. I resort to scraping the wax off with a razor. Nothing feels better then to have your girlie goodies covered in hot wax, glued shut, stuck to the tub in super hot water and then dry-shaving the sticky wax off!!

By now the brain is not working, dignity has taken a major hike and I'm pretty sure I'm going to need Post-Traumatic Stress counseling for this event.

My friend is still talking with me when I finally see my saving grace....the lotion they give you to remove the excess wax. What do I really have to lose at this point? I rub some on and OH MY GOD!!!!!!! The scream probably woke the kids and scared the dickens out of my friend.

It's sooo painful, but I really don't care. "IT WORKS!! It works!!" I get a hearty congratulation from my friend and she hangs up.

I successfully remove the remainder of the wax and then notice to my grief and despair....! THE HAIR IS STILL THERE....... ALL OF IT!!!!!!!!!! So I recklessly shave it off. Heck, I'm numb by now. Nothing hurts. I could have amputated my own leg at this point.

Next week I'm going to try hair color...... Now that's funny ........
Notttttttttt


And girls use to ask themselves. "And I shaved my legs for this?" Waxing brings a whole different level of questioning for women:)
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« Reply #714 on: March 13, 2008, 08:22:42 PM »

"...she shows up every day, ready to deal with whatever behavior we have decided to bring to the cage that day..."

This is code for party later tonight in the cage when Klaas leaves for a few minutes, right? 
 
bbl
 
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« Reply #715 on: March 13, 2008, 08:23:13 PM »

ldstlou and Private Eye - thank you!

Completely O/T
 

Click on play 

<a href="http://llnw.jibjab.com/content/player.swf?content_url=http://www.jibjab.com/sendables/api/remote/LY1C5FPXqaOgCqi9IbaxWNre.xml" target="_blank">http://llnw.jibjab.com/content/player.swf?content_url=http://www.jibjab.com/sendables/api/remote/LY1C5FPXqaOgCqi9IbaxWNre.xml</a>

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« Reply #716 on: March 13, 2008, 08:27:24 PM »

I miss him too

I miss him also.  Very kind to me, always comments on my comments, I do appreciate him.

Just to make it clear, ******* is not banned. 


Exodus 8:28-32 Integrity is giving your word and keeping it.

From what I read, ******* appears to have integrity.
I hope he comes back.







It is very discouraging when you give your all to the cause of justice for Natalee and ... then your integrity is negated through accusations.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2694.new#new


******* needs to come back.  It's not the same here without him.  


~~COME BACK *******~~

Well since it has been brought up again....   ******* is definately a good supporter of Natalee and has provided valuable info. as well as Anna! 

My only problem is, if wer'e talking about integrity, why did Anna's posts get removed and not his?  Wouldn't the situation be better served to see both sides?  Just because he is a mod. and has the ability to remove/move and lock threads, leaves Anna at a disadvantage.   I've been here along time and I happen to like Obs AND Anna.   But let's be fair here.   Do people not have the intelligence to figure things out for themselves, other than what the mods. CHOOSE for us to see and know?   I do agree there are times where things are so unacceptable, and Klaas uses her best judgement and moves them because they don't belong here, as it should be,  but it involves other posters, not a mod who can change things to there own benefit.  We ALL contribute in some way.  Why give one the benefit over the other?  I personally know things about certain people here that I find unacceptable, but it's none of my business and those things are better left out of an open forum, ESPECIALLY by mods.  I have seen Anna attacked on a couple occassions too, but does she have the benefit of removing and leaving parts that appear in her favor only? No, she doesn't have that capability!

I'm sorry for the rant.  But it's hard for me to stay quiet when I see something that 'appears' unfair to me.

Obs,  I really do enjoy all you do here and for Natalee and I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you.  I'm just upset how this was handled.  You as a mod. do have certain responsibilities and one of them should never be to move a thread and leave your own posts only.   It's just not fair.   I personally want to see Anna back here too!

Ok, off my rant now.  My apologies...
    I love you both,  let's just act like civil mature adults!
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« Reply #717 on: March 13, 2008, 08:36:38 PM »

Dihannah - what happened happened.  I can't put back posts that have been deleted.  The only thing I can possibly do now is delete the threads entirely after copying them. 

This is the last post I want to see in this thread on the subject.
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Destiny
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unwatched kids will be given sugar + a free puppy


« Reply #718 on: March 13, 2008, 08:37:42 PM »

"...she shows up every day, ready to deal with whatever behavior we have decided to bring to the cage that day..."

This is code for party later tonight in the cage when Klaas leaves for a few minutes, right? 
 
bbl
 

Bar is open...shake...shake...shake that shaker....one olive or two?
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I Stand With The Girl *NATALEE HOLLOWAY*

Aruba Beware *AN ANGEL LIKE NO OTHER* has fallen amongst you....may you know the fury of HEAVEN!
Destiny
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« Reply #719 on: March 13, 2008, 08:39:06 PM »

Quick question...has any Monkey located where Urine *really* is?
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I Stand With The Girl *NATALEE HOLLOWAY*

Aruba Beware *AN ANGEL LIKE NO OTHER* has fallen amongst you....may you know the fury of HEAVEN!
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