Natalee Case Discussion #742 3/10 - 3/14/08

[Bearlyhere]

Question:
Why would multiple legal professionals jeopardize their careers, livelihood, and freedom to cover for the VDSs?

-All very close friends?
- PvdS has dirt on them all and willing to use it as leverage?
- Blackmail?
 

ALL OF THE ABOVE and probably a few more. Add The Mafia and its storefront tourism organizations ATA/AHATA in there. Paulus probably has some connections there, his business partner Antonio Carlo, Joran's lawyer, sits on the board of AHATA and they are the ones who attacked Natalee and Beth in the media.

Once you start lying its hard to go back and lose face. This is probably even more true for people in higher positions.
So what other choice ist there but to maintain that the lies are the truth

JE, I agree with you.  I also think that at least some of the ALE did not know exactly what was being covered up.  I think they believe they were covering up a naughty boy who snuck out, hung out with the guys, and then snuck in late.  Once the die was cast, to go back would start to unravel a ball of string that has been accumulating since there was an ALE on this island.

[Bearlyhere]

Something just isn't right about Patrick and this book,I feel like he isn't 100% honest about Joran and these 10 confessions..I sure hope this isn't some type of scam so Joran can buy that house in spain

All the tapes were given to Peter R. As far I understood the book is about how Patrick came in touch with Joran and all this.
There is no reason to doubt Patrick. He has a criminal past but went to prison for it. This is a long time ago.

Let him have his book. It is thanks to him that Joran made his confessions and Peter could broadcast it.

The book of Patrick van der Eem will be released in the Netherlands at the end of June & in the US it will be released in September.

I also don't doubt Patrick. The person he is helped him to get close to Joran and to get his confession. He does have a criminal past but has paid a price for it & seems to have learned from it (which is even more important I think).
And as far as the interview with Poentje goes; I think his quotes were taken out of context. Patrick is crucial for credibility in the confession. And if something was really up Peter R. de Vries would have been in every talkshow talking about it / defending him / would have written a column  etc. And he just gave a couple of quotes and that's it.

I agree Katrien and GBMW.  The tapes of Patrick and Joran left no doubt in the average mind of what kind of Joran's persona.  He was exposed for all to see, nothing that occurs after this point will ever place Joran in a positive light again if he continues the way he is (I mean without confessing and doing time). 

Patrick also placed himself in danger doing this.  We know there is at least some negative influence in the justice system there (understated, no?), so what he did places him at risk.

I have not seen anything to make me think otherwise, based on the information available to me to date.  The only thing that is out there to say otherwise. is a man who openly admits a bias against the case and someone who wants to make a big name for himself.

I believe Patrick is a man who loves his family deeply and would not jeopardize that.  He declined drinks to go swimming with them.  IMO, the fear of jailtime or punishment dished out would be nominal compared to missing time with his children, while imprisoned.

[ldstlou]

Good Morning Monkeys!!!

I am sending out my thank you notes to those who participated with us on Sunday. I think most of you know I invited some of my scouts out. I wanted you to know why. Here is the thank you note I am sending the boys and why it meant so much to me that they participated:



What brave young men you are to come out as you did on Sunday and take a stand and let your voices be heard, I am so proud of you all. You took a stand for a girl who you know of, but never actually knew, that is even more incredible to me. There are people all across America that have also taken a stand for Natalee, and most of us never knew her personally either. You are now part of a very special group of people who have given their voices to a very important cause; Justice for Natalee.

At the beginning of every Cub Scout meeting, we stand and say the Pledge of Allegiance together. We state:

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America,
And to the Republic for which it stands:
One Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

I just want to take a minute and tell you why I am so grateful for what you did Sunday, and why I feel it is so important. I think you understand most of the words of the Pledge of Allegiance, but there are three very important words at the end that we are pledging, that we are making a commitment to, and they are; Indivisible, Liberty, and Justice. So I looked those words up in the dictionary and here is what I found:

Indivisible: incapable of being divided.

Liberty: the power of choice. The right to live one’s life without threats, fear, or some kind of retaliation.

Justice: the right to be treated justly, fairly, and according to proper laws and principle.

Our Pledge of Allegiance ends with; for All. These principles we pledge to belong to EVERY AMERICAN regardless of race, religion, color, creed or any other criteria. So my understand is that essentially, we are saying that as Americans, we stand together and can not be divided, and that we are committed to Liberty, to live our lives without fear or threats, but if our Liberty is taken away, then we also are committed to Justice. That those who took away our Liberties must be held responsible according to the Law. If you break the law, then you must be held responsible for your actions.

Unfortunately, Aruba has not given Natalee Justice. Natalee's Liberties were taken away from her when she visited Aruba, and now as Americans, we are standing up to say, Natalee deserves Justice. The bad guys need to go to court and if found guilty, then they should be put in jail. This is what you stood up and said on Sunday when you were passing out the fliers. You were true to your Pledge of Allegiance, and for this, I am so very proud of you. You may be young men, but your voices are strong and you made a difference on Sunday and stood up for our beliefs, as Americans, and as Cub Scouts who Pledge Allegiance to our Flag.

Thank you so much my brave heroes!!!

[MumInOhio]

Interesting to look at the islands yearbooks..Such a small class but yet so many with the same last name..Kock,Arendsz,Arends,Maduro..Croes..and yes Wever 

That is interesting.Lot of them look unhappy,mainly the girls.Wonder if we can find one with Lorenzo in it?

I stumbled onto a couple of years at that school but well before Lorenzo's time  No one real important in the yearbooks except Robert Wever,you may see a couple of ministers..But no one tied into this case that I know of.

http://www.colegiopariba.freeservers.com/index.html

Thank you *******.
While it's slow around here I'm going to see if I can find out more info on Lorenzo.Also,does anyone know what Freddy's parents names are?What they do on aruba?

Karma…this is some of what I have found…keep coming to dead ends…anything you can find would be appreciated…

FREDDY ZEDAN ARAMBATZIS/ARENDS…VENEZUELAN…Around 24 now and according to Joran only speaks Pap.

Father…Melody posted that he was on his death bed in Venezuela, with a smile! JE did find a 52 year old male in Venezuela…named Arambatzis.

Caps found…Zedan=0….Arambatzis=2…need to check back with him on that!

Mother.. ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT   LILIAN REGINA
62 MONTANJA  NOORD  from Chamber records
Also have 39 F or G…not sure which right now. Also read that she was Dutch.

Kermit has an address of 7A Catiri….I followed this to a Frederick Arends on the Chamber list.

Here’s some posts I found...

Freddy's mom is a "Supervisory Director" for the Bubali Sports Club located in Noord. Bubali is also the location of the Bird Sanctuary which has 2 ponds.Here is the complete name of Freddy's mom: Freddy's mom is a "Supervisory Director" for the Bubali Sports Club located in Noord. Bubali is also the location of the Bird Sanctuary which has 2 ponds.Here is the complete name of Freddy's mom:
LILIAN REGINA ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERTIt appears that she has been married twice. I don't know if Rodriguez or Albert is her maiden name. Since she is listed as being "Dutch" I would think that "Albert" was probably her maiden name....but, I am not sure. Can anybody help me out on this? I have always thought "Zedan" was Freddy's last name until I found this other info. Could it be his middle name? You can find this information at: http://206.48.100.138/registry/registry_search.afpType in: S.C. BUBALI where it says TRADE NAME & then click search.
Posted by: Shelly | Monday, August 29, 2005
++++
 Do you remember Freddy Zedan and the house on Montana Street? His family’s name was Arambatzis-Rodriguez. There were several half- and/or step-siblings, all with different surnames.

I’m wondering if Daury could be one of them - perhaps innocent of this accusation, but related to the real person who did it.

In your post # 2,315 on previous thread, the link to picture of Freddy Zedan, code named "badboy_956", picture dated 7-13-04, shows the same guy "Freddy" as in the pictures posted earlier today.
 
He is flashing that awful gang sign, this time with both hands. There is a middle-aged woman in the background, who can't see the gang signs, and probably wouldn't know what they mean, anyway
++++
Brother … from Sharon, vms and Kermit...Ernesto Arambatzis…Miami Fl from around 1999…seems to disappeared of off the radar other than court documents from late 2007 and 2007. Graduated college in Venezuela…found that on line.

Is related to Sasha Rodriguez, maybe a half or stepsister. A couple of other Rodriguez pop up on the Dr Phil documents…not sure if they are related. Post above mentions different names.

Seems some what protected as he was let out the back door very quietly on his release and reportedly, per Harry Tho, left the country immediately.

According to a taped recording of the Kalpoes on 6/22/2005, he is the reason they were arrested!

[Destiny]

Good Morning Monkeys!!!

I am sending out my thank you notes to those who participated with us on Sunday. I think most of you know I invited some of my scouts out. I wanted you to know why. Here is the thank you note I am sending the boys and why it meant so much to me that they participated:



What brave young men you are to come out as you did on Sunday and take a stand and let your voices be heard, I am so proud of you all. You took a stand for a girl who you know of, but never actually knew, that is even more incredible to me. There are people all across America that have also taken a stand for Natalee, and most of us never knew her personally either. You are now part of a very special group of people who have given their voices to a very important cause; Justice for Natalee.

At the beginning of every Cub Scout meeting, we stand and say the Pledge of Allegiance together. We state:

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America,
And to the Republic for which it stands:
One Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

I just want to take a minute and tell you why I am so grateful for what you did Sunday, and why I feel it is so important. I think you understand most of the words of the Pledge of Allegiance, but there are three very important words at the end that we are pledging, that we are making a commitment to, and they are; Indivisible, Liberty, and Justice. So I looked those words up in the dictionary and here is what I found:

Indivisible: incapable of being divided.

Liberty: the power of choice. The right to live one’s life without threats, fear, or some kind of retaliation.

Justice: the right to be treated justly, fairly, and according to proper laws and principle.

Our Pledge of Allegiance ends with; for All. These principles we pledge to belong to EVERY AMERICAN regardless of race, religion, color, creed or any other criteria. So my understand is that essentially, we are saying that as Americans, we stand together and can not be divided, and that we are committed to Liberty, to live our lives without fear or threats, but if our Liberty is taken away, then we also are committed to Justice. That those who took away our Liberties must be held responsible according to the Law. If you break the law, then you must be held responsible for your actions.

Unfortunately, Aruba has not given Natalee Justice. Natalee's Liberties were taken away from her when she visited Aruba, and now as Americans, we are standing up to say, Natalee deserves Justice. The bad guys need to go to court and if found guilty, then they should be put in jail. This is what you stood up and said on Sunday when you were passing out the fliers. You were true to your Pledge of Allegiance, and for this, I am so very proud of you. You may be young men, but your voices are strong and you made a difference on Sunday and stood up for our beliefs, as Americans, and as Cub Scouts who Pledge Allegiance to our Flag.

Thank you so much my brave heroes!!!

Incredible Letter!!!

I'm sure that these Young Men...the Scouts, will have this day forever inscribed in their minds.  What a beautiful real life lesson for them in the true meaning of FREEDOM.

[Bearlyhere]

Wow!  I had to do a double take:

The Dana Pretzer Show On Scared Monkeys Radio - Listen Live TONIGHT At A Special Time, 8PM Eastern, 7PM Central, 5PM Pacific - Guests Include Drew Peterson, Joel Brodsky, Vanessa Leggett, Robin Sax, Pat Brown and Scared Monkey “Lisa”

Go Dana!

Go Lisa!

 

[ldstlou]

Good Morning Monkeys!!!

I am sending out my thank you notes to those who participated with us on Sunday. I think most of you know I invited some of my scouts out. I wanted you to know why. Here is the thank you note I am sending the boys and why it meant so much to me that they participated:



What brave young men you are to come out as you did on Sunday and take a stand and let your voices be heard, I am so proud of you all. You took a stand for a girl who you know of, but never actually knew, that is even more incredible to me. There are people all across America that have also taken a stand for Natalee, and most of us never knew her personally either. You are now part of a very special group of people who have given their voices to a very important cause; Justice for Natalee.

At the beginning of every Cub Scout meeting, we stand and say the Pledge of Allegiance together. We state:

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America,
And to the Republic for which it stands:
One Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

I just want to take a minute and tell you why I am so grateful for what you did Sunday, and why I feel it is so important. I think you understand most of the words of the Pledge of Allegiance, but there are three very important words at the end that we are pledging, that we are making a commitment to, and they are; Indivisible, Liberty, and Justice. So I looked those words up in the dictionary and here is what I found:

Indivisible: incapable of being divided.

Liberty: the power of choice. The right to live one’s life without threats, fear, or some kind of retaliation.

Justice: the right to be treated justly, fairly, and according to proper laws and principle.

Our Pledge of Allegiance ends with; for All. These principles we pledge to belong to EVERY AMERICAN regardless of race, religion, color, creed or any other criteria. So my understand is that essentially, we are saying that as Americans, we stand together and can not be divided, and that we are committed to Liberty, to live our lives without fear or threats, but if our Liberty is taken away, then we also are committed to Justice. That those who took away our Liberties must be held responsible according to the Law. If you break the law, then you must be held responsible for your actions.

Unfortunately, Aruba has not given Natalee Justice. Natalee's Liberties were taken away from her when she visited Aruba, and now as Americans, we are standing up to say, Natalee deserves Justice. The bad guys need to go to court and if found guilty, then they should be put in jail. This is what you stood up and said on Sunday when you were passing out the fliers. You were true to your Pledge of Allegiance, and for this, I am so very proud of you. You may be young men, but your voices are strong and you made a difference on Sunday and stood up for our beliefs, as Americans, and as Cub Scouts who Pledge Allegiance to our Flag.

Thank you so much my brave heroes!!!

Incredible Letter!!!

I'm sure that these Young Men...the Scouts, will have this day forever inscribed in their minds.  What a beautiful real life lesson for them in the true meaning of FREEDOM.

Thank you. I thought it was a great lesson for them also. You just know these little guys who stood out all day for Natalee are going to be great leaders one day!! They made me so darned proud!!!

[ldstlou]

Wow!  I had to do a double take:

The Dana Pretzer Show On Scared Monkeys Radio - Listen Live TONIGHT At A Special Time, 8PM Eastern, 7PM Central, 5PM Pacific - Guests Include Drew Peterson, Joel Brodsky, Vanessa Leggett, Robin Sax, Pat Brown and Scared Monkey “Lisa”

Go Dana!

Go Lisa!

 

oh crap!!! I just did a double take too!!! lol
Don't laugh at my voice you guys!!!

[Bearlyhere]

Wow!  I had to do a double take:

The Dana Pretzer Show On Scared Monkeys Radio - Listen Live TONIGHT At A Special Time, 8PM Eastern, 7PM Central, 5PM Pacific - Guests Include Drew Peterson, Joel Brodsky, Vanessa Leggett, Robin Sax, Pat Brown and Scared Monkey “Lisa”

Go Dana!

Go Lisa!

 

oh crap!!! I just did a double take too!!! lol
Don't laugh at my voice you guys!!!

Monkey voices are nothing to laugh at!  The only bad voice is a silent one in the face of injustice.
Go Lisa!  Go Lisa!  Go Lisa!  Go Lisa!  She's a Monkey!  Go Lisa!

There's a monkey in the house!!!!

 

[snoopy]

Way to go Lisa!!  And don't let her kid you guys.  She is an amazing young woman.  Smart funny pretty, and I was told by several gentleman at the wedding reception that she was "hot" lol  And coming from an ole lady myself she is "hot" lol. lol.  I'll tell ya sumpin else....she's a great momma!!  Her son is so sweet.

[ldstlou]

Way to go Lisa!!  And don't let her kid you guys.  She is an amazing young woman.  Smart funny pretty, and I was told by several gentleman at the wedding reception that she was "hot" lol  And coming from an ole lady myself she is "hot" lol. lol.  I'll tell ya sumpin else....she's a great momma!!  Her son is so sweet.

I luv ya snoopy!!! BUT CUT IT OUT!!! lol you are embarrassing me!!!!
I do have a great son though!!!

[BUCKSHOT]

It makes perfect sense that Joran had a small party back at his home.

Stopping in front of his home, per PV's, was in case someone saw them there.

[Peaches]

Way to go Lisa!!  And don't let her kid you guys.  She is an amazing young woman.  Smart funny pretty, and I was told by several gentleman at the wedding reception that she was "hot" lol  And coming from an ole lady myself she is "hot" lol. lol.  I'll tell ya sumpin else....she's a great momma!!  Her son is so sweet.

I luv ya snoopy!!! BUT CUT IT OUT!!! lol you are embarrassing me!!!!
I do have a great son though!!!

Thank you for doing an outstanding job at the St. Louis Show.  Great job everyone. 

[ldstlou]

I have no faith in Hans Mos. He has ignored the cover-up to date and failed at every task he has performed. I believe he is conducting a low level cover-up of his own with Dop Kruimel in tow. Something about Aruba turns all of the asshole into criminals. Clean investigative, prosecutorial and judicial leadership from Holland is the only way we will get a prosecution in Natalee's case.
[/quote]

Dayhiker, I don't know a lot what Hans Mos has been stating / doing so I can't really give an opinion but from what I've seen and heard of Hans Mos I don't get that impression of him. At least I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Especially after I read an article in 'de Volkskrant'.

Hans Mos had a meeting with Peter R. de Vries (when Peter thought he had enough evidence); Peter showed him the confession. Hans Mos suggested to Peter R. de Vries the quotes of Joran weren't good enough for murder because it wasn't clear if Joran knew for certain that Natalee was dead. Peter went back to Holland and did another taping with a lot of questions whether Joran knew for certain if she was dead. He got the quotes Hans Mos needed so Joran is now a suspect of murder.
You can look at this as Hans Mos trying to cover up (OM Aruba knew of the undercover operation before the last taping occured so maybe that could cause trouble in a trial).

But if it was likely to cause a lot of trouble for the case Peter R. de Vries wouldn't have done another taping...the confession was already there and for his televisionshow he didn't need more material. So I'm thinking Hans Mos probably asked Peter R. de Vries to help him...and he did.

[/quote]

I have to agree with dayhiker. I think he started with good intentions but allowed himself to become just another puppet of Aruba's.
What he did to Beth and Dave in inexcuseable. To call them over Thanksgiving and lure them to Aruba with "new evidence" and once again "false hopes" only to sit and interogate them for hours about Natalee's "habits", now how is that representing Justice?
And what did John Q. Kelly say after, there is no new evidence. He is playing the same game now as the rest of them imho. He has been bought and payed for.
And lets face it, for Aruba to prosecute now, they would also have to admit to the cover up by the police and officials from day 1...I don't think they will le that happen.
My hope lies in Beth and a civil case. Sending my prayers to her!!!

[ldstlou]

Way to go Lisa!!  And don't let her kid you guys.  She is an amazing young woman.  Smart funny pretty, and I was told by several gentleman at the wedding reception that she was "hot" lol  And coming from an ole lady myself she is "hot" lol. lol.  I'll tell ya sumpin else....she's a great momma!!  Her son is so sweet.

I luv ya snoopy!!! BUT CUT IT OUT!!! lol you are embarrassing me!!!!
I do have a great son though!!!

Thank you for doing an outstanding job at the St. Louis Show.  Great job everyone. 

Thank you Peaches. hope you are feeling well!!!

[jackb]

Think I'm going to go play some games then watch the news.

GOODNIGHT ALL!

do you play backgammon?

[jackb]

Why is this avatar showing it's azz?

jack, why are you blue? 

because I am stone cold and try to avoid plummer's cracks as they have no real value except to disconbobulate.    lol

[jackb]

My apologies for messing up the quotes JackB  I do that sometimes.

No thing shell. Keep on shelling.  lol  jackb

[jackb]

Hi Monkey's,
  Just got caught up reading.Watched the video link and listened to Dave and Beth.Seem's Dave thinks it all went down at the Sloots house..Bless his heart and Beth's heart too..One thing I've always wondered about and that is why Dave had to find out from his son that Natalee was missing.I wonder why Beth or Jug didn't call him immediatly..I don't know,just sad...

And you are trying to do what with your question.  Read the books.  Good try.  Not working.     Jack blue

or you will?.....If the shoe fits.....also there are other questions that does not involve family business I am sure. 


You're way out of line jackb..It was a fair question and it's one that's asked by many people that don't care to go out and buy books to get the answer.This question was answered very nicely which you would have seen had you of scrolled down to see.Do not ever and I mean ever accuse me of anything,especially the act of manipulation.That is an evil accusation and I do not appreciate it one bit.When your pointing your finger at someone else,you've got three pointing right back at you.You might want to remember that!Like I said,it was a fair question and a fair answer followed..God Bless

[jackb]

Hi Monkey's,
  Just got caught up reading.Watched the video link and listened to Dave and Beth.Seem's Dave thinks it all went down at the Sloots house..Bless his heart and Beth's heart too..One thing I've always wondered about and that is why Dave had to find out from his son that Natalee was missing.I wonder why Beth or Jug didn't call him immediatly..I don't know,just sad...

And you are trying to do what with your question.  Read the books.  Good try.  Not working.     Jack blue

You're way out of line jackb..It was a fair question and it's one that's asked by many people that don't care to go out and buy books to get the answer.This question was answered very nicely which you would have seen had you of scrolled down to see.Do not ever and I mean ever accuse me of anything,especially the act of manipulation.That is an evil accusation and I do not appreciate it one bit.When your pointing your finger at someone else,you've got three pointing right back at you.You might want to remember that!Like I said,it was a fair question and a fair answer followed..God Bless

  If the shoe fits....er bless your heart.  Also there are many questions that does no involve family business that needs to be answered.  jack b