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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #742 3/10 - 3/14/08  (Read 190286 times)
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« Reply #680 on: March 13, 2008, 02:46:28 PM »

Tomikosmom? Janet,

You have an amazing command of all of the information of the case, and I am trying to figure out how you do do it? I realize that you can search SM and pull up the appropriate info and cut and paste, but you seem to do it a lot quicker than the SM site works, and you always select the most relevant articles to post, so quickly.

I always feel sorry for who I guess is your husband when you say you are getting ready to play him in a board game or cards. I always think he must be a glutton for punishment:) If he wines then either he is a genuis too, or you are smart enough to make him feel like one:)

1.  I save every post I submit to the SM forum and file in my desktop folds according to topic.  My darling DIL (youngest son's wife) has cleaned up my files three times in the past two years.  My files are badly in need of another clean up.  She promised me that she would do it as a Christmas present ... never happened.  Maybe she meant next Christmas.

2.  My hubby.  PI ... we both love board/card games and ... so does our grown kids ... grandkids and ... some friends.  A board game is hubby's way of inticing me away from this computer.

 

Janet

I remember not what I was going to disagree with you about, good naturedly, but I vividly remembert the scope and depth of your response, and pardon my French, but I thought to myself, WTF have I gotten myself into????????????????? You have great organizational skills and a good heart:)
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« Reply #681 on: March 13, 2008, 02:49:17 PM »

Patrick asked in one of the interview "higher power" and Joran answered "higher powers".

I do not have the impression Joran meant the Kalpoe brothers with "higher powers".

Nope, I wouldn't think the Kalpoes and "higher powers" equate 

Indeed! For me high powers mean just what it says, people with more power then the average John Doe.. like someone at Justice, or someone with a big influence in Aruba etc..
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« Reply #682 on: March 13, 2008, 02:55:31 PM »

Posted by Kyle at BFN when someone posted about Psychics:

I hope you don't find this deflating.  Many of you probably won't want to hear this, but it's what we've observed in the field. 
The Aruban police had on file a 9" thick stack of psychic "revelations" ranging from the absolutely absurd to the plausible, to the down right convincing.  These statements came from literally hundreds of opportunist psychics from around the world coming out of woodwork.  The only thing all each of these statements had in common is that they all had remarkable inconsistencies in them which made them provably bogus based on case information not made public.  In short, I believe some people are truly gifted with fantastic imaginations and passions but we as humans are not made to know the future. If a psychic nailed every detail of this case retrospectively, they should be arrested for their involvement. The statements which were very convincing could be replicated based on a solid handle on the publicly available case information with gaps imaginatively filled in.  The problem in putting too much faith in these people is that it inevitably leads to wasting a lot of time and resources and will frustrate the team tremendously.  While in the field, we received literally hundreds of leads from psychics who knew with "absolute certainty" where Natalee's body was.  The danger in a case like this is losing hope.  When we lose hope, we cling on to anything we've got.  This makes us very susceptible to being deceived.  We want to believe someone has the answers and is capable of handing those answers over to us on a silver platter.  The problem is this just isn't reality.  It never will be.  It's a cruel realization but the sooner it's accepted the faster one can sort through the deception to find the answers based on evidence which will hold up in court.
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« Reply #683 on: March 13, 2008, 02:58:43 PM »

A few quotes from Patrick:

Quote
Het is menselijk, Patrick, dat iedereen dan alles wat slecht is het snelst gelooft.”
Hij citeerde Graham Greene: “That everyone everywhere believes what is bad.”


Quote
”Het is beter dat ik mijn kaken stijf op elkaar hou tot de rechtzaak”.

"It is better that I don't say anything till the lawsuit".

Does that mean?

   Thanks Katrien!   Do you know if Patrick knows English?  Wouldn't it be awesome  if we could get him here to provide us some inside info. or just to discuss what we have learned over the years.

I don't know. But the article tells:

Quote
Mondain, Marga 10Th, 2008
Uw Webspecialist brengt logste van Patrick van der Heem online
Patrick van der Heem heeft zijn eigen website geopend op deze domeinnaam. Hij heeft gekozen voor de dienstverlening van Uw Webspecialist, een bedrijf in Almelo, dat websites en webapplicaties ontwikkelt voor de zakelijk en particuliere markt.
Patrick zal op zijn website gaan belogen en reageren op nieuwsberichten in de media als dat nodig is.

The last sentence tells that Patrick will blog and react on the news in the media if necessary.

By the way: You might think I am a Patrick-friend: I do not know Patrick but I have seen all the interviews in the last few months and I knew it were all lies, because, as I told before, I have seen what one of journalists, writing about Patrick, did to a total innocent man. I could not believe journalists could be so cruel.

Patrick tells in the interview he would never harm animals.
In one of the TV interviews Patrick told that even among criminals it is "not done" to kill and rape an 18 year old girl.




Oh, I never suspected you knew him personally.    I was just wondering if he spoke/wrote English as well as all the Dutch posters do so well here.  If he does, I would just love to somebody make contact with him somehow and get him over here.    I do so much appreciate what you all bring here and helping with translations and what's going on in the media! 
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« Reply #684 on: March 13, 2008, 03:21:21 PM »

Patrick asked in one of the interview "higher power" and Joran answered "higher powers".

I do not have the impression Joran meant the Kalpoe brothers with "higher powers".

Nope, I wouldn't think the Kalpoes and "higher powers" equate 

Indeed! For me high powers mean just what it says, people with more power then the average John Doe.. like someone at Justice, or someone with a big influence in Aruba etc..

I think the coverup is simply the key dutch who were close friends of PVDS, mostly dutch, coupled with their trump card of black mailing Rudy. I am not even sure the judges are apart of it other than knowing full well how this is being played, maybe not proof per se, but knowledge of the relationships. If someone is truly a close friend, one will do a lot to protect a man and his son. I think there are only a few directly involved, but many who are aware generally of the coverup JMO
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« Reply #685 on: March 13, 2008, 03:36:32 PM »

A few quotes from Patrick:

Quote
Het is menselijk, Patrick, dat iedereen dan alles wat slecht is het snelst gelooft.”
Hij citeerde Graham Greene: “That everyone everywhere believes what is bad.”


Quote
”Het is beter dat ik mijn kaken stijf op elkaar hou tot de rechtzaak”.

"It is better that I don't say anything till the lawsuit".

Does that mean?

   Thanks Katrien!   Do you know if Patrick knows English?  Wouldn't it be awesome  if we could get him here to provide us some inside info. or just to discuss what we have learned over the years.

I don't know. But the article tells:

Quote
Mondain, Marga 10Th, 2008
Uw Webspecialist brengt logste van Patrick van der Heem online
Patrick van der Heem heeft zijn eigen website geopend op deze domeinnaam. Hij heeft gekozen voor de dienstverlening van Uw Webspecialist, een bedrijf in Almelo, dat websites en webapplicaties ontwikkelt voor de zakelijk en particuliere markt.
Patrick zal op zijn website gaan belogen en reageren op nieuwsberichten in de media als dat nodig is.

The last sentence tells that Patrick will blog and react on the news in the media if necessary.

By the way: You might think I am a Patrick-friend: I do not know Patrick but I have seen all the interviews in the last few months and I knew it were all lies, because, as I told before, I have seen what one of journalists, writing about Patrick, did to a total innocent man. I could not believe journalists could be so cruel.

Patrick tells in the interview he would never harm animals.
In one of the TV interviews Patrick told that even among criminals it is "not done" to kill and rape an 18 year old girl.




Oh, I never suspected you knew him personally.    I was just wondering if he spoke/wrote English as well as all the Dutch posters do so well here.  If he does, I would just love to somebody make contact with him somehow and get him over here.    I do so much appreciate what you all bring here and helping with translations and what's going on in the media! 

Hereby the complete rough translation of his latest blog:

The press is sick, people. The last weeks there has been written a lot of nonsense, you don’t want to know. It started a bit on Aruba. I did a few interviews for the American tv-programme Nightline and the local press. Everything goes well although I’m a bit cranky because my luggage was lost at the airport. But anyway, I do an interview with the Volkskrant. A very  nice grey man. A Belgian with strict questions. I don’t mind. He is honest, you know, he looks you straight in the eye. That reporter had asked for a fotographer, but he was late. Therefore that Jean Mentens is impatient because he has an interview with with minister Hirsch Ballin. He was on Aruba with the prime minister. I said: You go. I’ll meet with the photographer. Tell him hi and thank him for the kind words. It was the decent thing to do because the prime minister had just said on Friday that he found “the work of the man in that car a good job” or something like that. I haven’t heard it myself.

Jean Mentens is gone & at the last minute that photographer shows up. I pose. He takes photos. Done.   I want to shower, because of the missing luggage I’ve been walking in the same clothes for two days. He gets a notebook out of his pocket. I’m thinking: this must be for the phototext. Then he asks suddenly what I think of the fact that the OM of Aruba wants to interrogate me on involuntary basis and that I can be temporary jailed. My spokesman says that this is impossible according to Dutch criminal law. I say sarcastically that I will sit for 9 days and can also keep my mouth shut but in a serious way I tell him that I’m entirely on the side of the OM and that they will only have to call & I’ll be there.

That hobbyjournalist (means a not so professional reporter / journalist) puts a press bulletin on its Internet site and the next day all newspapers are covering the fact that the OM of Aruba wants to interrogate Patrick involuntary.

Bullshit. Prosecutor Hans Mos never said this. That photographer simply invented everything. Nice thing to report right? Because where there is smoke, there must be a fire. That Patrick must be a wrong guy, because the OM wants to interrogate Patrick involuntary. What a puta, not? And all those newspapers that copy this immediately. Don’t they have some law intern to explain that the OM doesn’t have the right to do this?

And what is the truth? On Friday the 15th of February I informed mr. Mos in writing that I will come to Aruba & that I’m more than willing to testify.

THE NIEUWE REVU AND PANORAMA
I return after this involuntary experience with the press and see on Schiphol the Nieuwe  Revu lying in the stands; on the cover that I “burgled”. In the story itself this becomes only "a burgling in the house of my parents". Furthermore a lot of gossip, all by so-called anonymous people, one I recognise as a crack addict & the fantast of the neighbourhood. Let me keep this short. I have never burgled in the house of my parents and I have also never gripped the cat or my sister in obscurity (research this very well before you copy this). I have done worse things in the past. For all clarity: there was never any violence against animals involved, because I find that despicable.

Peter R. de Vries and my spokesman Peter Schouten have seen my police record so they know exactly what I’ve been up to.

THE PRESS AND HEARING BOTH SIDES
When I wrote yesterday what John van de Heuvel of de Telegraaf overlooked in the difference between jurisdiction and `mediavonnisje’ I forgot the following: in court there is such a thing as hoor en wederhoor (hearing both sides); it is the most important principle of our right. But a lot of magazines and newspapers are more interested in sensational stories and avoid this because they sense that it becomes less interesting.

Last week Koen Voskuil of the Nieuwe Revu contacted my spokesman immediately to apply   wederhoor. There is another story in de Nieuwe Revu today and again Koen Voskuil applied the rule of hearing both sides again. This time it’s about the stuff concerning Poentje Castro. My spokesman did state that hearing both sides is only honest if every point can be discussed. So not just: "Patrick denies everything" or that I get 10 lines to explain myself and they get 10 columns to give their view. And again Koen Voskuil showed himself to be a good reporter.

That is something different compared to that other Koen (Scharrenberg) of the Panorama. He writes down anonymous accusations about offences, told by "zegslieden" / people, who – if it’s ever checked – might only talk to him in his own head. No character wederhoor. Absolutely no phone call. And that Scharrenberg even knows my spokesman! You would think that only the press in an coarse dictatorship would behaves this way.

And don’t say that Joran didn’t get a chance to give his side of the story, because that doesn’t make sense. Joran made his confession in his own words. Subsequently he stated before the airing of the show on Sunday at Pauw & Witteman that he only confessed to impress me. And that was his side of the story.

NIEUWE REVU THIS WEEK

Below the questions of the Nieuwe Revu concerning - eventually not transmitted by the Aruban Television - the ‘aftertalk’ that I had with Poentje Castro and the written answers which my spokesman gave after consultation with me:

DOES PATRICK CONFIRM OR DENY THAT HE THREATENED THE PRESENTER OF UN DIA PINE?
Patrick denies that he threatened Poentje with death. Castro sounded considerably confused in his interview with radio1. Then there something on its answering machine, but suddenly that’s not so terrible after all. Then 15 people have listened, suddenly it’s "heard it vaguely – (heard half)". Castro has been caught lying in this matter earlier on. In its announcement he says he has taped Patrick accidentally and offers even an apology for this. Later he says he kept the camera rolling on purpose. Patrick awaits the declaration quietly.

DOES PATRICK CONFIRM OR DENY THAT HE THREATENED THE VAN DER SLOOT FAMILY BY TELEPHONE? HAS HE CALLED THE VAN DER SLOOT FAMILY AROUND THE HIDDEN-CAMERA TELEVISIONSHOW? HAS HE SAID ANYTHING LIKE: “NOW IT’S YOUR TURN. YOU SHOULDN’T HAVE FUCKED WITH MY ISLAND?”
Patrick has indeed called the father of Joran; just before his interview with ABC was aired. The report of this conversation will be in the book, word for word (every word). There was no threat.

DOES PATRICK CONFIRM OR DENY THAT HE HAS SAID SOMETHING AFTER THE INTERVIEW WITH UN DIA PINE BIDA LIKE:`YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS ARE UP TO, I WILL MAKE SURE THEIR WHOLE LIFES WILL BE EMBITTERED. IF THIS IS SO, DOES HE MEAN THE VAN DER SLOOT FAMILY?
Patrick is quite angry at the van der Sloot family for what they have done to Aruba & the family of Natalee Holloway. From the confession of Joran it became clear that the father of Joran has been a hypocrite when he said he never helped his son in an unlawful way, because he helped him to smuggle a cell phone into the prison. It is up to the police to determine if anything more happened. Patrick does believe that it would be some way of justice if the lives of the van der Sloots would be just as embittered as the lives of the family Holloway has been after her disappearance.

AFTER UN DIA PINE BIDA PATRICK HAS TALKED ABOUT CAMERA’S IN PLANTS AND A INTERNET – PHONETAP. SINCE WE HAVEN’T OBSERVED ANY PLANTS IN THE RANGE ROVER, WE WONDER, HAVE THERE BEEN MORE EAVESDROPPING OPERATIONS? HAVE YOU PLACED A PHONETAP OR INTERNETTAP?
In the fragment concerning the minicameras in the plants Patrick was talking about how he was planning to record his conversations with Joran. When he got in contact with Peter R. de Vries; Peter & his team came up with the idea of the Range Rover.  With the ‘phone tap’ Patrick refers to the plan to record the conversation with Joran after the announcement for the Peter R. de Vriesshow; which was on Thursday without mentioning Joran. (this was already told by de Vries in De Volkskrant). Patrick was also curious if Joran would e-mail him something and this remark was changed to ‘an Internet tap’ that has never been there (you can receive an e-mail without it).

HAS THERE BEEN A CORPORATION WITH THE POLICE WHEN IT COMES TO THE OPERATION? PATRICK TALKS ABOUT PAYMENTS EN SAYS: “I GIVE THE SAME TO BOTH PARTIES, BUT IT IS A LARGE GROUP. THE PRESS GETS SOMETHING BUT ALSO THE POLICE CONCERNED. DOES HE RECOGNISE THAT HE HAS SAID THIS? HAS PATRICK PAID MONEY TO PRESS OR THE POLICE?
These consciously misleading presentation of questions, with which tv-reporter tried to invent how much money has been paid to Patrick, are misinterpreted by Patrick, which makes him think he is being asked to whom he has already told his story. With the answer "the press gets something but also the police concerned" says nothing more than that he gave the press information and as a witness to the police. Of course he isn’t referring to giving payments to the press or police. That would be simply ridiculous. Why would Patrick give the press or the police a "disbursement"?

DOES PATRICK RECOGNISES THAT HE HAS SAID: I KNOW WHO THREW THE BODY IN THE SEA? HOW WAS THAT MEANT? HAS HE SHARED THAT INFORMATION WITH THE OM?
According to the translation Patrick says: "but I know who has thrown the body in sea." This became immediately big news, whereas with Patricks intonation and use of words it appears that Patrick said this as someone who says "but I know that Ajax will be the champion this year." Patrick says it in a manner which makes it clear that he is only giving an opinion, not as a matter of fact / certainty, whom has helped Joran getting rid of the body. Even if in the programme of Peter R. de Vries it is clear that Peter doesn’t believe that Joran spoke the truth concerning this.
 
DID HE SAY SOMETHING LIKE: JORAN ASKED ME FOR 2000 FOR THAT MAN TO BE SILENT LIKE DE TELEGRAAF CLAIMS? DID PATRICK GAVE THOSE 2000 EUROS TO JORAN?
Patrick has commented on all the important details in his statement to the police; concerning the time he spent with Joran and about the conversations in the car that hasn’t aired (about 19 hours).
It is correct that Joran stated in the Range Rover that ‘Daury’ needed 2000 Euro. Patrick never gave that money to Joran though. Concerning Jorans’ poker addiction there have been administered money transfers who will be supplied in Patricks book (with the full evidence). These transactions are of no importance to the criminal case against Joran van der Sloot.

PATRICK SAYS IN AN ITEM OF ‘HART VAN NEDERLAND’ THAT HE SUSPECTS THAT DAURY IS IN GERMANY WITH JORAN. IS THIS CORRECT? DOES THE POLICE KNOW THIS?
That Joran is hiding in Germany has been mentioned by Jorans own lawyer. There was a rumour that this was with a friend from Rotterdam. Patrick has no idea whether this is the friend that helped Joran with dumping the body of Natalee.

FURTHERMORE THE NEXT INFORMATION HAS ALSO BEEN SUPPLIED
Another famous quote that Patrick appears to have said "since I’ve known him (Joran) for so many years", while it is very clear that Patrick indicates that he knows ‘the case’ Joran just as long as millions of other people. In the same clip it appears almost immediately that he has known Joran just for seven months but that didn’t make the headlines.

Before the airing of his show I have rung Poentje Castro with the request for the tapes; from the beginning to the end so it can be determined if there has been some kind of manipulation concerning the montage (just like Peter R. de Vries gave all the Joran tapes to the police). Surprisingly I heard that Castro wanted to sell these tapes and he didn’t mean a compensation for the costs of a dvd & sending it. Of course I refused.
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« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 03:38:07 PM »

Posted by Kyle at BFN when someone posted about Psychics:

I hope you don't find this deflating.  Many of you probably won't want to hear this, but it's what we've observed in the field. 
The Aruban police had on file a 9" thick stack of psychic "revelations" ranging from the absolutely absurd to the plausible, to the down right convincing.  These statements came from literally hundreds of opportunist psychics from around the world coming out of woodwork.  The only thing all each of these statements had in common is that they all had remarkable inconsistencies in them which made them provably bogus based on case information not made public.  In short, I believe some people are truly gifted with fantastic imaginations and passions but we as humans are not made to know the future. If a psychic nailed every detail of this case retrospectively, they should be arrested for their involvement. The statements which were very convincing could be replicated based on a solid handle on the publicly available case information with gaps imaginatively filled in.  The problem in putting too much faith in these people is that it inevitably leads to wasting a lot of time and resources and will frustrate the team tremendously.  While in the field, we received literally hundreds of leads from psychics who knew with "absolute certainty" where Natalee's body was.  The danger in a case like this is losing hope.  When we lose hope, we cling on to anything we've got.  This makes us very susceptible to being deceived.  We want to believe someone has the answers and is capable of handing those answers over to us on a silver platter.  The problem is this just isn't reality.  It never will be.  It's a cruel realization but the sooner it's accepted the faster one can sort through the deception to find the answers based on evidence which will hold up in court.

Unfortunately, those trusted with the evidence of the investigation were not good stewards of the evidence. Evidence has been destroyed, search activities delayed with no site protection accomplished by the authorities, and interrogations have been stopped at key points and the person being interrogated allowed to be counseled by parents and attorneys, and interrogations have been stopped just short of key questions being asked when the flow of good information was beginning to come out.

Prisoners being isolated have been furnished cell phones and communication has been allowed to occur between locked up and the free.

Do I think psychics are the answer? No.

But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that  regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.
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« Reply #687 on: March 13, 2008, 03:42:18 PM »

Thanks for the translation GMBW.  Smile
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« Reply #688 on: March 13, 2008, 03:44:53 PM »

If someone is truly a close friend, one will do a lot to protect a man and his son.

Depending on what it is about, I think.
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« Reply #689 on: March 13, 2008, 03:46:10 PM »



   Thanks Katrien!   Do you know if Patrick knows English?  Wouldn't it be awesome  if we could get him here to provide us some inside info. or just to discuss what we have learned over the years.
[/quote]

I don't know. But the article tells:

Quote
Mondain, Marga 10Th, 2008
Uw Webspecialist brengt logste van Patrick van der Heem online
Patrick van der Heem heeft zijn eigen website geopend op deze domeinnaam. Hij heeft gekozen voor de dienstverlening van Uw Webspecialist, een bedrijf in Almelo, dat websites en webapplicaties ontwikkelt voor de zakelijk en particuliere markt.
Patrick zal op zijn website gaan belogen en reageren op nieuwsberichten in de media als dat nodig is.

The last sentence tells that Patrick will blog and react on the news in the media if necessary.

By the way: You might think I am a Patrick-friend: I do not know Patrick but I have seen all the interviews in the last few months and I knew it were all lies, because, as I told before, I have seen what one of journalists, writing about Patrick, did to a total innocent man. I could not believe journalists could be so cruel.

Patrick tells in the interview he would never harm animals.
In one of the TV interviews Patrick told that even among criminals it is "not done" to kill and rape an 18 year old girl.



[/quote]

Oh, I never suspected you knew him personally.    I was just wondering if he spoke/wrote English as well as all the Dutch posters do so well here.  If he does, I would just love to somebody make contact with him somehow and get him over here.    I do so much appreciate what you all bring here and helping with translations and what's going on in the media! 
[/quote]

It is possible to leave comments on his site; so you can leave a suggestion / request there. I already asked if it could be possible to have an english version (just like Peter R. de Vries) of his site. Didn't he give interviews in English already? For some American shows? Thought so; but I might be mistaken.
I've heard a couple of conversations that people I work with had with him (we tape those conversations so they can be broadcasted...but only a few sentences are being broadcast) and he seems like a really nice guy. He was very polite and friendly every time.
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« Reply #690 on: March 13, 2008, 03:56:18 PM »

Posted by Kyle at BFN when someone posted about Psychics:

I hope you don't find this deflating.  Many of you probably won't want to hear this, but it's what we've observed in the field. 
The Aruban police had on file a 9" thick stack of psychic "revelations" ranging from the absolutely absurd to the plausible, to the down right convincing.  These statements came from literally hundreds of opportunist psychics from around the world coming out of woodwork.  The only thing all each of these statements had in common is that they all had remarkable inconsistencies in them which made them provably bogus based on case information not made public.  In short, I believe some people are truly gifted with fantastic imaginations and passions but we as humans are not made to know the future. If a psychic nailed every detail of this case retrospectively, they should be arrested for their involvement. The statements which were very convincing could be replicated based on a solid handle on the publicly available case information with gaps imaginatively filled in.  The problem in putting too much faith in these people is that it inevitably leads to wasting a lot of time and resources and will frustrate the team tremendously.  While in the field, we received literally hundreds of leads from psychics who knew with "absolute certainty" where Natalee's body was.  The danger in a case like this is losing hope.  When we lose hope, we cling on to anything we've got.  This makes us very susceptible to being deceived.  We want to believe someone has the answers and is capable of handing those answers over to us on a silver platter.  The problem is this just isn't reality.  It never will be.  It's a cruel realization but the sooner it's accepted the faster one can sort through the deception to find the answers based on evidence which will hold up in court.

I don't believe that Kyle or anyone else is allowed to review the case documents, according to the policy of the prosecutors office. I thought the beauty of the Persistence is that they were to do a true grid seach mission which depends not on psychics or even tips from the authorities, and as such their work would be independent of the investigation. They were there simply to attempt to search a predefined area for Natalee's remains. So I am not sure why they have been lured into defending the work of the Aruban authorities or a discussion of the validity of the investigation as they are not knowledgeable as to the investigation, other than what they have been told by these Arubans. There are an awful lot of highly educated people who have been chumped by people of far less formal education. A well trained police force is not thwarted by a grieving mother and the media.

And Kyle, I by no means am being disrespectful, I think you are brilliant, sincerely. But I don't think your education or work experience has prepared you for a cover up by these types of people. And I think you may be severely underestimating the education, experience, and wisdom of the monkeys and other coverup believers. Don't let them make a fool of you. We need you.
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« Reply #691 on: March 13, 2008, 03:57:34 PM »

GBMW - yes it's possible to leave comments at the end of the posts on Patricks website:

http://patrickvandereem.nl/?p=10#respond
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« Reply #692 on: March 13, 2008, 03:57:58 PM »

If someone is truly a close friend, one will do a lot to protect a man and his son.

Depending on what it is about, I think.

Well i would do alot for my best friend, almost everything, but i would never consider to help him with a body or a crime or whatever.. No way i would help my best friend with such a thing.. People that will help like that, are also as bad as the perpetrator..

Btw Patrick talks English, ive heard him talk a couple of times in English.. no problem for him.. dont know if he as any grammatical talents though 
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Dihannah1
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« Reply #693 on: March 13, 2008, 03:58:22 PM »



   Thanks Katrien!   Do you know if Patrick knows English?  Wouldn't it be awesome  if we could get him here to provide us some inside info. or just to discuss what we have learned over the years.

I don't know. But the article tells:

Quote
Mondain, Marga 10Th, 2008
Uw Webspecialist brengt logste van Patrick van der Heem online
Patrick van der Heem heeft zijn eigen website geopend op deze domeinnaam. Hij heeft gekozen voor de dienstverlening van Uw Webspecialist, een bedrijf in Almelo, dat websites en webapplicaties ontwikkelt voor de zakelijk en particuliere markt.
Patrick zal op zijn website gaan belogen en reageren op nieuwsberichten in de media als dat nodig is.

The last sentence tells that Patrick will blog and react on the news in the media if necessary.

By the way: You might think I am a Patrick-friend: I do not know Patrick but I have seen all the interviews in the last few months and I knew it were all lies, because, as I told before, I have seen what one of journalists, writing about Patrick, did to a total innocent man. I could not believe journalists could be so cruel.

Patrick tells in the interview he would never harm animals.
In one of the TV interviews Patrick told that even among criminals it is "not done" to kill and rape an 18 year old girl.



[/quote]

Oh, I never suspected you knew him personally.    I was just wondering if he spoke/wrote English as well as all the Dutch posters do so well here.  If he does, I would just love to somebody make contact with him somehow and get him over here.    I do so much appreciate what you all bring here and helping with translations and what's going on in the media! 
[/quote]

It is possible to leave comments on his site; so you can leave a suggestion / request there. I already asked if it could be possible to have an english version (just like Peter R. de Vries) of his site. Didn't he give interviews in English already? For some American shows? Thought so; but I might be mistaken.
I've heard a couple of conversations that people I work with had with him (we tape those conversations so they can be broadcasted...but only a few sentences are being broadcast) and he seems like a really nice guy. He was very polite and friendly every time.
[/quote]

I missed any interviews here in the US, as I've been very busy, so missing alot here on the forum and news lately (it's driving me crazy trying to get caught up!).  But good point.  And good idea about his blog, I believe i will leave a message about SM, and anybody that hasn't yet, may do so too?

Thanks all and forgive my being behind.
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Dihannah1
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« Reply #694 on: March 13, 2008, 04:01:52 PM »

If someone is truly a close friend, one will do a lot to protect a man and his son.

Depending on what it is about, I think.

Well i would do alot for my best friend, almost everything, but i would never consider to help him with a body or a crime or whatever.. No way i would help my best friend with such a thing.. People that will help like that, are also as bad as the perpetrator..

Btw Patrick talks English, ive heard him talk a couple of times in English.. no problem for him.. dont know if he as any grammatical talents though 

EXACTLY!  I cherish my friends and am very loyal and also would do "almost" anything for them and my family.  However, THERE ARE limits!  I would never condone anything illegal, let alone protect them form illegal wrongdoing, ESPECIALLY MURDER or RAPE!   Nobody is worth that much and who needs friends like that anyways! ???
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« Reply #695 on: March 13, 2008, 04:21:14 PM »

If someone is truly a close friend, one will do a lot to protect a man and his son.

Depending on what it is about, I think.

Well i would do alot for my best friend, almost everything, but i would never consider to help him with a body or a crime or whatever.. No way i would help my best friend with such a thing.. People that will help like that, are also as bad as the perpetrator..

Btw Patrick talks English, ive heard him talk a couple of times in English.. no problem for him.. dont know if he as any grammatical talents though 

Because that is totally foreign to your life experiences. But would it be to a police chief?
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katrien
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« Reply #696 on: March 13, 2008, 04:36:15 PM »

[Because that is totally foreign to your life experiences. But would it be to a police chief?


Maybe I don not understand what you mean.

Is a police chief different than other human beings?

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« Reply #697 on: March 13, 2008, 04:53:17 PM »



hardly, after it came out the kalpoe's lawyer was stating he was taking dr. phil down (although he's doing well enough on that score himself) and that it "cleared" his client since joran said they were dumb and didn't know anything....the real issue is whether or not the judge actually forces the kalpoes to produce the documents or accepts the defenses arguments for a dismissal. in any event the behavior of dr phil and his cohorts lacks integrity IMO.
[/quote]

how has dr. phil and his cohorts acted with less than integrity?
dennisintn
[/quote]

dennis, they misrepresent themselves. he's as bad as geraldo as far as i'm concerned. if you disagree, let's just agree to disagree, it's really not worth getting into a long drawn out discussion and frankly irrelevant as far as i'm concerned. i'd love to have his lawyers wipe the floor with the kalpoes, but i suspect the most we can hope for is that the case is dismissed.

i don't see them producing the documents or ever going on the stand. sadly.
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« Reply #698 on: March 13, 2008, 05:12:41 PM »

[Because that is totally foreign to your life experiences. But would it be to a police chief?


Maybe I don not understand what you mean.

Is a police chief different than other human beings?



I think in general they are a little more acclimated to these situations, yes, but I think this one is just crooked:)
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« Reply #699 on: March 13, 2008, 06:35:32 PM »

~ Spring Break Advisory ~

Quote
Spring break is time for fun, not stupidity; stay safe on vacation following these tips

Use buddy system wherever you go

By Lynda Shrager
Albany Times Union

Published on Thursday, Mar 13, 2008

Every time my daughter gets up the courage to broach the subject of going away for spring break with her friends, I look at her and say two words: Natalee Holloway. This year, she is a 21-year-old college junior, so I have finally weakened and said yes to Florida this month. But don't for a moment think she'll be leaving without a lengthy tutorial plus a list of tips to pack next to her suntan lotion.
snip
A recent University of Wisconsin study reported that 75 percent of college males and 45 percent of females were intoxicated daily during spring break (I'm beginning to change my mind).
snip
Date rape drugs such as Rohypnol or ''GHB'' are odorless, colorless, and tasteless and have been implicated in many spring break incidents. (Maybe I'll just check into the room next door.)
Just remember Holloway, 18, who disappeared in 2005 while on spring break in Aruba.

Tips for students

Organize these safety tips so all you have is fun:

• Don't go anywhere without using the buddy system. Three is best because if someone gets into trouble, one can stay while the other goes for help. If someone seems is missing for more than a few minutes, start a search.

• Don't leave drinks unattended; don't take drinks from strangers; and try to watch your drink being poured.

• If someone ''passes out'' from drinking, position him or her on the side to prevent choking and call 911 if he or she is not easily roused.

• Don't let anyone in your group leave with someone he or she just met, no matter how hard he or she might try to convince you.

• Someone at home should have a copy of your itinerary, including hotels and cell phone numbers of people in your group.

• Carry identification, enter emergency contacts in your cell phone address book under the name ''ICE'' (in case of emergency) and have pertinent medical information in your wallet.

Read more here

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All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
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