Lively Case Discussion #484 6/30 - 7/1/2006

[mrs. red]

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So she was not drinking fast enough to drink the amount needed to keep her unconscious.  Likely going in and out of consciousness and putting up a fight.  In the process of subduing her, somebody picks up something and bashes her in the head, thus the need for the constant head injury stories.  And also why when recovered, her remains could not be given to the parents with Dompig's OD story.  She drank a lethal amount of alcohol oh yeah, and fell down so hard it fractured and crushed her skull to a pulp?/   And on the top of the head which is the most unlikely spot to hit falling or passing out??

And they think we will not figure this out?

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ON top of the drugs that would be in her system.. think if they used the one mentioned ... the eplispey (sp) drug... why would that be in her system???

[Shizaru]

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I would like to take that photo of Natalee and make Dompig the Liar EAT IT!!

 

Dompig said she was drinking "almost lethal amounts of alcohol".  She did not look anywhere near death in any of the pictures or video I have seen of her on the trip.

you know...I sat in my pool all day today sipping on beer. Sweat the alcohol out as fast as you drink it!!! Didn't even get tipsy!!! Just a bunch of baloney!!! So what if the girls were sipping drinks all day!! Even the pic of her on the dance floor!! She did not appear at all over intoxicated!! She looked upright and in control...but of course that was before Joran got ahold of her.

Yes, the key word there is SIPPING.  I suspect that was Natalee's mode of drinking as it is of many of the very young.  Been there done that.  One drink can last over an hour unless you decide to dump it for a new colder one.  I think that is how the bad thing happened.  Natalee did not drink enough of the drug to truly knock her out.  She woke up.

Yeah Anna, I hear ya! But, I don't think she actually dies as a result of an O.D. on the drug itself.  I think there was some physical violence commited against her.  Reason being is that they felt the need to state Natalee "fell" out of the car during their initial HI lie.  That to me was a preemptive explanation of an injury found on her person if her remains were found.  Whether it was accidental or not, I'm not sure.  But, I believe she was struck in some way by her attackers...and she died as a result of it...

I agree she proabably died in some violent manner.  Not just because of the "fell down" detail tho.  The timeline doesn't fit OD. GHB takes effect in 10-20 minutes, she was shouting to her friends about 10 minutes after leaving the bar and apparently conversing in the car after that.  If the dose wasn't enough to knock her out probably woudn't have been enough to kill her either.  Also according to Baden death from OD usually takes at least 2 hours after the person passes out, but she walked out of the bar under her own power at 1:00 and Joran was home on his computer around 3:00.

[San]

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So she was not drinking fast enough to drink the amount needed to keep her unconscious.  Likely going in and out of consciousness and putting up a fight.  In the process of subduing her, somebody picks up something and bashes her in the head, thus the need for the constant head injury stories.  And also why when recovered, her remains could not be given to the parents with Dompig's OD story.  She drank a lethal amount of alcohol oh yeah, and fell down so hard it fractured and crushed her skull to a pulp?/   And on the top of the head which is the most unlikely spot to hit falling or passing out??

And they think we will not figure this out?

.

They are so dumb they still think they got us fooled.

[ldstlou]

OMG>>> LDSTLOU - I am so glad that you didn't end up in a bad way... OMG.. that's terrible... and really makes you think....

I know I know...awful...but the main thing is...that my friends drove me home..apparently some of us decided to go to afterhours and I DROVE!!! I remember nothing!! Then they said I got into argument w/ bouncer...just CRAZY stuff completely out of character for me!! I have no memory at all after leaving the 1st bar. So it makes perfect sense to me that Natalee "appeared ok" to her friends right after they left. She could have been functioning like I did at first but out of it....does that make sense? When I woke up at a stranger's house...had no idea what had happened or where I was...it took us a day to even find my car...my gut hurts!! I think of poor Natalee and what it was like for her.

[Lala'sMom]

Has anyone seen CP405 lately?  I have missed her and where in the heck is Angie these days?  Doesn't she know I need her to help hug Nemo???

[Anna]

[I agree she proabably died in some violent manner.  Not just because of the "fell down" detail tho.  The timeline doesn't fit OD. GHB takes effect in 10-20 minutes, she was shouting to her friends about 10 minutes after leaving the bar and apparently conversing in the car after that.  If the dose wasn't enough to knock her out probably woudn't have been enough to kill her either.  Also according to Baden death from OD usually takes at least 2 hours after the person passes out, but she walked out of the bar under her own power at 1:00 and Joran was home on his computer around 3:00.

I agree with your thinking, Shizaru, but never could find one MB student to confirm the shouting out to friends.  I thought they each said they only heard it from another and none of them would say they actually saw this.  This is a fabrication by the three suspects I think.

Also think the conversation in the car is fabricated as Nadira first said that her sons sayd Natalee did not ever even speak to them.  I think she was incapicitated in the car but not having consumed anything like a lethal dose of anything.

[mrs. red]

OMG>>> LDSTLOU - I am so glad that you didn't end up in a bad way... OMG.. that's terrible... and really makes you think....

I know I know...awful...but the main thing is...that my friends drove me home..apparently some of us decided to go to afterhours and I DROVE!!! I remember nothing!! Then they said I got into argument w/ bouncer...just CRAZY stuff completely out of character for me!! I have no memory at all after leaving the 1st bar. So it makes perfect sense to me that Natalee "appeared ok" to her friends right after they left. She could have been functioning like I did at first but out of it....does that make sense? When I woke up at a stranger's house...had no idea what had happened or where I was...it took us a day to even find my car...my gut hurts!! I think of poor Natalee and what it was like for her.

No kidding...

[klaasend]

Has anyone seen CP405 lately?  I have missed her and where in the heck is Angie these days?  Doesn't she know I need her to help hug Nemo???

Yes LaLa's she was posting just a couple hours ago.

[San]

I agree she proabably died in some violent manner.  Not just because of the "fell down" detail tho.  The timeline doesn't fit OD. GHB takes effect in 10-20 minutes, she was shouting to her friends about 10 minutes after leaving the bar and apparently conversing in the car after that.  If the dose wasn't enough to knock her out probably woudn't have been enough to kill her either.  Also according to Baden death from OD usually takes at least 2 hours after the person passes out, but she walked out of the bar under her own power at 1:00 and Joran was home on his computer around 3:00.

He was on his computer transferring the pictures he just took.  That was the porn he was looking at.  I also believe Freddy was there with him.

[mrs. red]

Has anyone seen CP405 lately?  I have missed her and where in the heck is Angie these days?  Doesn't she know I need her to help hug Nemo???

you just missed CP... and it was said earlier angie is taking a break...

[Jacqueline]

"Botcha Galoop" is the new and in-style greeting. "How are you" and "How you doing" and "What's Up"


XXX- Above is literal translation of Botcha Galoop....( botcha comes from bacci, meaning to Kiss....)

But in my neighborhood Galoop meant like a jerky kid...

[Lala'sMom]

Thanks Klaas, I thought I was invisible without my clothes.  When are we getting dressed again?  Anyone know?

[Lala'sMom]

Has anyone seen CP405 lately?  I have missed her and where in the heck is Angie these days?  Doesn't she know I need her to help hug Nemo???

you just missed CP... and it was said earlier angie is taking a break...

Thanks, Mrs. I have been in and out lately and thought I may have missed them both.  How are you ?

[San]

"Botcha Galoop" is the new and in-style greeting. "How are you" and "How you doing" and "What's Up"


XXX- Above is literal translation of Botcha Galoop....( botcha comes from bacci, meaning to Kiss....)

But in my neighborhood Galoop meant like a jerky kid...

When I was small I used to the candy store down  the block and the old italian man used say when I walked in Hey Batcha Galoop.

[mrs. red]

I agree she proabably died in some violent manner.  Not just because of the "fell down" detail tho.  The timeline doesn't fit OD. GHB takes effect in 10-20 minutes, she was shouting to her friends about 10 minutes after leaving the bar and apparently conversing in the car after that.  If the dose wasn't enough to knock her out probably woudn't have been enough to kill her either.  Also according to Baden death from OD usually takes at least 2 hours after the person passes out, but she walked out of the bar under her own power at 1:00 and Joran was home on his computer around 3:00.

He was on his computer transferring the pictures he just took.  That was the porn he was looking at.  I also believe Freddy was there with him.

I agree San.  Freddy is involved... as far as I am concerned now, the entire island is.... jossy said it's common knowledge that they use date rape drugs... makes everyone seem like oh what the hell, it's just a tourist!!

[Tylergal]

.
So she was not drinking fast enough to drink the amount needed to keep her unconscious.  Likely going in and out of consciousness and putting up a fight.  In the process of subduing her, somebody picks up something and bashes her in the head, thus the need for the constant head injury stories.  And also why when recovered, her remains could not be given to the parents with Dompig's OD story.  She drank a lethal amount of alcohol oh yeah, and fell down so hard it fractured and crushed her skull to a pulp?/   And on the top of the head which is the most unlikely spot to hit falling or passing out??

And they think we will not figure this out?

.

ON top of the drugs that would be in her system.. think if they used the one mentioned ... the eplispey (sp) drug... why would that be in her system???

Mrs. Red, I know that Sunfreak will be able to tell you more about this than I, but epilepsy drugs are, in effect, tranquilizers, some of which are Ativan, Valium, phenobarbital, etc.

[klaasend]

Thanks Klaas, I thought I was invisible without my clothes.  When are we getting dressed again?  Anyone know?

There's some kind of problems with avatars.  Red and Tom may have to go to an entirely different forum set up.  Seems the pHpBB boards like this format can have problems often.

Put your avatar in the sig line like I did, it helps!  

[Tylergal]

I agree she proabably died in some violent manner.  Not just because of the "fell down" detail tho.  The timeline doesn't fit OD. GHB takes effect in 10-20 minutes, she was shouting to her friends about 10 minutes after leaving the bar and apparently conversing in the car after that.  If the dose wasn't enough to knock her out probably woudn't have been enough to kill her either.  Also according to Baden death from OD usually takes at least 2 hours after the person passes out, but she walked out of the bar under her own power at 1:00 and Joran was home on his computer around 3:00.

He was on his computer transferring the pictures he just took.  That was the porn he was looking at.  I also believe Freddy was there with him.

Ditto.

"Hit her head."  Yes, but who hit her head?  Was it Deepak's tire tool or Joran's?

"After falling down, she drowned."  After being put in the water, if she was not dead, since she was unconscious from where they hit her, she drowned.

[Mrsn2itiv]

Has anyone seen CP405 lately?  I have missed her and where in the heck is Angie these days?  Doesn't she know I need her to help hug Nemo???

Hi lalas! you dont have your pencils out tonight do ya??   and I havent seen CP since she was singing VP, maybe she was discovered??  
Really htou..How the heck are yuo?? and all the monkeys????
I saw the pic of Natalee...she looks fine to me.....those  
Aruba will have hell to pay for covering so hard for those  

[mrs. red]

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So she was not drinking fast enough to drink the amount needed to keep her unconscious.  Likely going in and out of consciousness and putting up a fight.  In the process of subduing her, somebody picks up something and bashes her in the head, thus the need for the constant head injury stories.  And also why when recovered, her remains could not be given to the parents with Dompig's OD story.  She drank a lethal amount of alcohol oh yeah, and fell down so hard it fractured and crushed her skull to a pulp?/   And on the top of the head which is the most unlikely spot to hit falling or passing out??

And they think we will not figure this out?

.

ON top of the drugs that would be in her system.. think if they used the one mentioned ... the eplispey (sp) drug... why would that be in her system???

Mrs. Red, I know that Sunfreak will be able to tell you more about this than I, but epilepsy drugs are, in effect, tranquilizers, some of which are Ativan, Valium, phenobarbital, etc.

yes, and the FP Red talks about those guys that got arrested using Clonazepam ... so maybe that is another reason why she couldn't be found... IMO... and even DomPIG said that she was drugged... at one point before he lost his mind...