The Black Dahlia

[mrs. red]

i hope the movie is realistic...

[nonesuche]

Did any of you watch the program on this last weekend? I think it was sunday night?

I'll try to find the link, it was the son of the Dr in LA, and his daughter was featured as well -- seems her father molested her most of her young life?

Michelle Phillips was also featured as the daughter's longtime friend?

[mrs. red]

Did any of you watch the program on this last weekend? I think it was sunday night?

I'll try to find the link, it was the son of the Dr in LA, and his daughter was featured as well -- seems her father molested her most of her young life?

Michelle Phillips was also featured as the daughter's longtime friend?

 
I missed the program, but I did know this about the daughter... Dana has talked with one of the writers of a book about this case who will be a guest...

[nonesuche]

Mrs Red,

It was CBS who did the piece last Sunday but it appears it's been shown prior too? Here is the link and I found the insight that his own daughter went to great lengths to tell her story of his sexual abuse but was never taken seriously, is terribly sad and really colored the entire piece. A "secret room" is also mentioned, the son Hodel actually revisits the Frank Lloyd Wright home and shows where it is hidden.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/23/48hours/main657318.shtml

[Jennifer34]

None, I saw that show.  The kids think their dad (the dr.) did it.  It sure looks that way based on this particular show.  Very interesting.  I felt really bad for the daughter and what she must have endured.

[mrs. red]

None, I saw that show.  The kids think their dad (the dr.) did it.  It sure looks that way based on this particular show.  Very interesting.  I felt really bad for the daughter and what she must have endured.

None, that is the guy that has agreed to be on Dana. Thanks for the link!

[Jacqueline]

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/dahlia_movie/1_index.html

Latest from Crime Library....

[LouiseVargas]

Hello,

This is my first post to The Black Dahlia thread and the first thing I must do is apologize to Mrs. Red. She sent me an email asking if she created the thread, would I come over and post. It's taken me way too long to get here and I'm sorry, Mrs. Red. And I'm arriving in the middle of the night. 3 am - the witching hour.  

The next thing I want to say is that here in Los Angeles, tomorrow, Saturday, Sept. 9, on A&E (Arts and Entertainment) there will be a one hour documentary (on cable channel 71) - CHECK YOUR LISTINGS - on Cold Case Files on The 1947 Black Dahlia murder of struggling actress Elizabeth Short. That should provide us with some info until the movie comes out.

I heard about the Black Dahlia years ago. I saw two documentaries about the case: one was the story of a woman who was certain her MD father was the killer; the other was the story of a man who was certain his MD father was the killer. Both doctors are dead. And I totally forgot she had a physiological sexual blockade.

Spooky said not to look at the photos. I always wanted to be an MD so blood and gore don't gross me out. I looked at the pics.

WARNING: GRAPHIC LANGUAGE

Her body was cut in two right above the top of the pelvic bones. And it was done as cleanly as the 1/2 inch sectional body segments I saw at UCLA Medical Center on a field trip in high school. A sharp saw would not cut the torso so precisely, not to mention machetes, axes. What instrument was used?

It's weird that a scalpel in a human hand could make such a clean cut and such a deep one showing the clean separation of the bones and organs, etc. It's almost like it was done by a laser, which of course is impossible. Another though is a razor sharp guillotine, also not probable.

On MY body, the measuring tape says 34" around my hips just above my pelvic bones. That's 17 inches from side to side and 9-10 inches from back to front. A scalpel is a small instrument like a knife. maybe the blade is several inches long on a handle. I have sharp knives in my kitchen but it is rare that I make a 100% precise cut. It's slightly ragged.  

I did not find the positioning of the top part and bottom part of the body unusual. Legs were little spread but not showing her privates. The top was a little to the side of the bottom with her arms thrown back.

Of course we are missing pieces of the puzzle, thus the cold case status.

How and why did she / could she get involved with a doctor?  Wait, I'm gettin an idea. Maybe she sought an MD to remove the physical barrier that was blocking her you know what. The doctor (whichever one) had to be a sadist and took advantage of her ... I don't know in what way ... and then finally did the deed he fantasized about all his life. He was wronged by a woman (mom?) early in life and perhaps the Black Dahlia is not the only victim.

But how was the cutting done?

[LouiseVargas]

I just read the link in Nonesuche's post above.

I was incorrect about seeing two documentaries. It was just one and I got mixed up because I thought it was two unrelated people who thought their father was the killer. Turns out it was Steve Hodel and Tamar Hodel.

George Hodel's house is a few blocks away from me on Franklin. It is a famous site and I always thought it was built by Frank Lloyd Wright but it was built by his son, Lloyd Wright. The house was featured in two movies, LA Confidential and The Aviator.

I have to go on errands this afternoon, so I'll take a pic of the house and post it soon.

[mrs. red]

LV, thank you for sharing your thoughts... as always they are thought provoking... and I am looking forward to the pictures!

[LouiseVargas]

MY HEAVENS!  I had quite an adventure INSIDE the Lloyd Wright house, known as the Sowden house, which has a fortess-like exterior. I went to take pics and was diappointed to see two big trucks parked in front of the house so I couldn't get a decent distant shot from across the street.

The trucks.


Here is a shot of the upper part of the house. Note the window panes in the middle.


So I crossed the street and noticed electrical cords going from the white truck up the steps though the door and into the house.

These are the east part of the steps that I walked up. There are duplicate steps on the west side.


No one was around and I figured workers were doing something in the house. So I walked up towards the front door.

The address. 5121 Franklin Avenue, Hollywood, CA  90068


The front door/gate was open. You can see the blue electrical cord.


So I went inside and followed the blue cord. I couldn't believe I was doing this. I've always been curious and here was my golden opportunity. I turned right and climbed up some stairs to a landing. Nothing going on, It was quiet. I went up some more stairs and saw an open door - I peeked in and it was just a dark room with books. So I kept going up to another landing. Suddenly, I was on the edge of the living room and a film shoot was going on. I took the below pics after the filming took a break. But you have to see them so you'll get the layout of the film shoot.

This is the living room. Notice on the right, there is a spotlight and in the lower right part of the pic, you can see a dark ornate Chinese chest.


This is the view from the living room opening onto an outdoor courtyard. Note the black Chinese chest and the filming equipment in the courtyard.



So, when I got to that area of the house, this is what I saw: A medium tall young blonde woman (with a good haircut), very slender with very small breasts and totally naked was sitting on the edge of the Chinese chest facing the courtyard. There were four guys in the courtyard facing her and filming. She was talking softly and the only part I could catch was "so I feel really good about my body." I knew it wasn't a porn movie. But if it were legit there would be no need to film it in an exotic location.

At that point, I was spotted and froze in my tracks. Several guys surrounded me and said "shhhhhhh" and ushered me into an office on the east side of the living room. A nice guy was at a computer eating lunch and he whispered "who are you, what are you doing here?" I whispered back, "OMG, I'm so sorry. I had no idea filming was going on. I'm just investigating the Black Dahlia case - the movie is coming out - and I found the house open and came up the stairs to take some pics. I have absolutely no interest in what you are filming, I'm not a tourist, I've lived in Hollywood for 41 years." He whispered some more but I'm half deaf so I couldn't hear what he was saying. I just nodded. Some of his whispers that I cought: People do live in the house but they know it's famous so they allow filming there from time to time for big bucks.

Then the filming took a break and the naked girl got up and walked away. The filming guys also disappeared. I asked the office guy if I could take a few pics of the living room and courtyard and he was shaking his head no. I said, "What if I just stand right outside your office and take a few shots and I promise to leave immediately after that." He said ok and I got the above pics. While I was there, I crouched down and took a pic of the window looking out from the living room facing the street (those window panes in the second pic above).

The window.


I also got a pic of the light fixture above the living room.


Then I got the heck out of there, did my errands and came home and took a Valium. I downloaded the pics and am writing to you now. What an adventure.

Does anyone have any thoughts on what the film shoot was about?

[LouiseVargas]

Oh No!      
I'm writing Klaas.

[Carnut]

I'll say an adventure, geese, I was scared at the open door pic.

What's that Hebrew word, Hutspha, or something like that.

I'd still bet it was an adult film of some sort.

[Carnut]

Now this is the Doctors house who the kids say they think did the deed?

This is the house where the kids grew up?

[LouiseVargas]

Carnut,

It's called chutzpah. But the house WAS open . . .

Yes, it's the famous house of Dr. George Hodel who the children suspect of being the murderer. That's where the kids grew up.

It's a beautiful house architecturally. And enormous. There's a pool in the house too.

[klaasend]

Oh No!      
I'm writing Klaas.

Great photos Louise!  Thanks for posting them!

[A's Fever]

Wow, Louise, what an impressive bit of sleuthing!  Great photos, thanks for posting them.

[Jacqueline]

Great, Great pics Louise.

Thank you!

[Carnut]

Now Louise when's your next trip to aruba?

[Bearlyhere]

Louise, you are absolutely amazing.  What an adventure!  You had me on the end of my seat.