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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 - 3/19/08  (Read 345318 times)
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #680 on: March 18, 2008, 09:22:58 AM »

I have a question that has been in the back of my mind all day.  I recall reading that one of the infamous three claimed that Koen had been at Urine's house earlier on the evening of May 29th.  Does anyone else remember reading this in the volumes of statements that were given?      It continues to bother me that Koen's family sold the boat so fast and moved.  Could it be that when the Kalpoes went by Urine's house (but didn't go in  ) on the way to see the sharks, that Koen was still there in the apartment?  Perhaps Paulass had both the boat and the help of another father in taking Natalee to the ocean.       
Sander GOTTENBOS statement
,<snip>

On your question if I have been at Joran’s house after what happened: I can explain to you the following:
I have been at its house after it happened. I have been three times at its house.

On your question who were also at Joran’s house when I went there, I will explain to you the following:
I went twice with my brother Koen, Amanda, Flor and Gilayta. The little girls had gone with me three times.
Also Joran had asked Sander to go out with him that night but Sander was going on Dads boat so he said NO .SO the GOTTENBOS boat was already in the water


On your question about how the conversation went, I will tell you the following;
The conversation went that I asked him if he wanted to go out on my fathers boat.

He said that he could not go because he was going to play poker at the Holiday Inn. There is tournament each Sunday in aforementioned hotel and Joran participates almost each week in that tournament.


On your question what kind of boat my father has, I will explain to you the following:
It is a speedboat, of the make "Sea Pro".

On your question if Joran had been on our boat before, I will explain to you the following:
Joran has never been on our boat and has also never with our dangers. (?)
It should read:

"Joran has never been on our boat and also has never been boating with us".



Blonde...Thank you for all your work and time putting those two threads together. Very much appreciated!
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Observer
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« Reply #681 on: March 18, 2008, 10:19:46 AM »




Hendrik Croes detained after colliding with a police officer

Lawyer Hendrik Croes while leaving the airport after having made a statement about the possible hit and run-accident with a police officer.

ORANJESTAD – Lawyer and former Justice-minister Hendrik Croes was taken into custody early this morning for having collided with a police officer on Sunday in the afternoon and failed to stop after the accident.  The situation escalated yesterday when police union SPA incited her members to ‘bring everything to a standstill’ if Croes is not arrested.  The Public Prosecutor (OM) called on everybody to ‘stay calm’, especially the parties in the labour dispute between the government and the public employees’ unions. 

The incident took place on the roundabout of Paradera around 15:00.  At that moment, the long autocade that was taking part in the protest of the public employees’ unions against the government was just passing.  A total of 120 cars with protesting public servants took part in the auto rally that was accompanied by two police cars.  One of the police officers, Edgar Maduro, started to regulate the traffic on the roundabout.  He said that at a certain point, he saw a grey car heading for him.  When he gave the stop signal, the driver refused to stop.  “I was picked off by the car.  I opened the car door and held to it, so I couldn’t fall.  The car kept on going.”  The police officer had several bruises on his ankle, knee, and ribs.  Some colleagues took him to the hospital, and he went home after treatments, but had to be admitted later that day.

Croes in the back of the National detective’s car on his way to the bureau, where he’s going to be interrogated.  He was taken to KIA a few hours later.

Maduro self didn’t realize that the driver was Hendrik Croes, but the onlookers did.  Also the media got wind of the incident real fast and some stations linked the accident to the strike of the public employees as an attempt of the government to break the strike.  When Croes, as he said, ‘heard sensational reports about him being accused of attempted murder’, he called chief district attorney Hand Mos to give a statement.  He was at that moment at the airport, going on vacation.  Chief of police Dolfi Richardson and assistant district attorney Robert Candelaria went to the airport to take Croes’ statement.  Croes then decided to stay on the island and no longer set off.

However, a big group of police officers were not satisfied with the fact that Croes was not arrested. Miguel Maduro of union SPA called a special meeting with the members of the union and the other sympathizing officers in the clubhouse Pova.  “The law is for everybody.  A person that hits and runs is usually arrested right away.  This was an attempt to serious assault and even an attempted homicide.  I told the chief of police that if Hendrik is not arrested, we will bring everything to a standstill.”  Chief of police Peter de Witte was clearly not taken with the threat and told Maduro this later.  “The police must act objectively and transparently and let the OM do his job independently.”  In order to guarantee the objectivity, he advised the OM to transfer the case to the National-detectives, which indeed happened and Croes was taken to the bureau for interrogation.  Based on this interrogation and statements from witnesses, chief district attorney decided to take Croes into custody.  He was taken to KIA around 05:00 this morning.  He must stay there for at least 48 hours, after which the OM will decide whether to request an extension of the custody with the examining magistrate.   

Croes’ son, Eduard has meanwhile indicated that the family is preparing a lawsuit to release Hendrik from custody.  Before he was arrested, Croes emotionally declared on TeleAruba that this ‘is not something to laugh about but to cry’.  He denies having run down anybody.  “I was the third car to get on the roundabout, when a person, if I am not mistaken, wearing a polo shirt and long pants, started to regulate the traffic.  I indicated that I was going to the direction of Tanki Leendert and was trying my best to drive around this person.”  Croes also doesn’t understand how he could have hit this police officer with his car.  I was driving dead slow.  I also didn’t know that the person was a police officer.  He didn’t identify himself.”  Maduro was indeed not in uniform, but he was wearing a badge.   

Croes was not happy with certain media’s ‘very sensational reports’.  He also referred to a recent incident, where AVP-leader Mike Eman cursed him for his role in the corruption scandal Fondo Desaroyo Nobo.  “I do not understand why all this must happen this way.”

http://www.amigoe.com/english/
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"I lied and thats the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot
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« Reply #682 on: March 18, 2008, 10:28:45 AM »

I learned from a source that there is only one place/person(?) on Aruba where a large commercial fish trap would have originated.  This should make it a reasonable venture figuring out who's trap we found.  The next logical move would be after finding them, asking them to explain their missing trap.  1) How did they lose it  2) why was it lost where it was 3) what were it's contents when it was "lost" and 3) what boat was used to transport the trap.

Any ideas of who may have possessed such a trap?
Approx. 7.5 x 7.5 x 2.5ft, and 200-300lbs, hundreds of feet of rope complete with 4-point rigging. 
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Personally, I prefer searching for lost shipwrecks.  They're bigger and don't have living enemies.
SEARCH FOR NATALEE BLOG:
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/
SS
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« Reply #683 on: March 18, 2008, 10:30:12 AM »

I have a question that has been in the back of my mind all day.  I recall reading that one of the infamous three claimed that Koen had been at Urine's house earlier on the evening of May 29th.  Does anyone else remember reading this in the volumes of statements that were given?      It continues to bother me that Koen's family sold the boat so fast and moved.  Could it be that when the Kalpoes went by Urine's house (but didn't go in  ) on the way to see the sharks, that Koen was still there in the apartment?  Perhaps Paulass had both the boat and the help of another father in taking Natalee to the ocean.       
Sander GOTTENBOS statement
,<snip>

On your question if I have been at Joran’s house after what happened: I can explain to you the following:
I have been at its house after it happened. I have been three times at its house.

On your question who were also at Joran’s house when I went there, I will explain to you the following:
I went twice with my brother Koen, Amanda, Flor and Gilayta. The little girls had gone with me three times.
Also Joran had asked Sander to go out with him that night but Sander was going on Dads boat so he said NO .SO the GOTTENBOS boat was already in the water


On your question about how the conversation went, I will tell you the following;
The conversation went that I asked him if he wanted to go out on my fathers boat.

He said that he could not go because he was going to play poker at the Holiday Inn. There is tournament each Sunday in aforementioned hotel and Joran participates almost each week in that tournament.


On your question what kind of boat my father has, I will explain to you the following:
It is a speedboat, of the make "Sea Pro".

On your question if Joran had been on our boat before, I will explain to you the following:
Joran has never been on our boat and has also never with our dangers. (?)
It should read:

"Joran has never been on our boat and also has never been boating with us".




Thanks, Blonde!  I have always felt that Koen was the fourth member of Urine's party that night.  He wasn't with them at C&Cs, so he was never identified as one of the males that Natalee left with.  In the myriad of statements from Urine, Tweedle-Dee, and Tweedle-Dumb, they have said that they drove by Urine's house, but didn't go in.  I wonder if they went to Urine's house to either pick up Koen who was waiting for them or if they joined the waiting Koen in Urine's apartment for a preplanned assault on Natalee.  I don't think that Koen was ever questioned by ALE, although Sander was.  Koen is supposedly studying in Holland now and I also wonder if he is the person who Patrick says is Daury in Rotterdam.  Didn't he wet the bed and sleep with his mother following Natalee's disappearance?  If he is Daury in Rotterdam, I hope that he has lots of adult diapers.  I've also heard that Koen is a cousin of Urine.
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klaasend
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« Reply #684 on: March 18, 2008, 10:31:58 AM »

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/features/16774701.html

Dan Gross: Greta Van Susteren rips Bochetto warning on Aruba tourism

By Dan Gross
Philadelphia Daily News

LOCAL ATTORNEY George Bochetto sent a letter to Fox News Channel's Greta Van Susteren and other cable-news programs on behalf of the Aruba Hotel and Tourist Association, threatening to bring legal action against them because of what the letter called "recent attacks and slanderous statements being made about the tourism industry in Aruba and the Natalee Holloway investigation."
Van Susteren mocked the letter on her program Friday night, begging Bochetto to sue her. "Bring it on," she said, adding: "I will waive all requirements, because I want to get all of these people under oath and depositions."

Other panelists on the show, including attorneys Bernie Grimm and Ted Williams, also ridiculed Bochetto's letter.

Local guy John Pauly, a former TV producer/reporter, is the media adviser to the Aruba chief prosecutor's office. He says Van Susteren "completely distorted the letter to make herself look macho," and once again distorted the story, which is "the very thing the letter was trying to remedy."

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MumInOhio
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« Reply #685 on: March 18, 2008, 10:47:18 AM »

SS…Hi...Koen was questioned twice by ALE and Sander once.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/civil_court_docs/arubancounselfile.htm


Name: Koen Gottenbos
Date: 16 June 2005 / 17:15
Pages: 10
Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes & Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement of a friend of the Kalpoe's and Van der Sloot

Name: Koen Gottenbos
Date: 20 June 2005 / 13:25
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem I Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement

Name: Sander Gottenbos Date: 16 June 2005 / 17:10
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Clyde Burke
Description: witness statement (brother of Koen Gottenbos)
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #686 on: March 18, 2008, 10:47:24 AM »

Travel need not be tragic



BE SAFE Beth Holloway speaks at Green High School about the disappearance of her daughter Natalee, shown behind her on the big screen.
REPOSITORY SCOTT HECKEL

 


BY ANN-MARGARET LAMBO
REPOSITORY CORRESPONDENT

GREEN Beth Holloway is a woman on a mission.

And it's to save your kids.

The mother of Natalee Holloway returned to Green High School on Monday night to convey a message of hope, faith and personal safety, born out of the tragic disappearance of her daughter during a trip to Aruba. Her appearance was sponsored, in part, by the Green Schools Foundation, the Summit County Sheriff's Department and Green City Council.

"What you need to remember as I talk with you is that any one of your children could be Natalee, and that I could be any one of you," Holloway said, in a steady, quiet voice.

In the darkened Green High School auditorium, with a single, glowing spotlight on the podium where she stood, Holloway told the story of her daughter, Natalee.

The young woman, a recent high school graduate, was an excellent student and, at the time of her disappearance, was preparing to attend the University of Alabama on an academic scholarship. A petite blonde with a passion for dance, Natalee hoped to one day attend medical school. Her destiny, and that of her mother's, changed on May 30, 2005, when Natalee was last seen while on a senior trip with 130 of her classmates. Her body has never been found.

It was her daughter's disappearance and her experiences in Aruba that turned Holloway into a safe travel advocate.

She travels the country educating parents and children about the importance of planning the safety part of the trip just as one would plan any other portion of a getaway.

Holloway had a number of suggestions to protect travelers of all ages, whether their excursions are in this country or abroad. She reminded those in attendance about the basic rules of travel — never leave the main group, never go anywhere alone, don't leave a beverage unattended, don't leave anyone in charge of a beverage, and never get stuck in a situation or condition that eliminates free will.

"Activate international calling for your cell phone," Holloway said. "Natalee didn't have international calling on her cell phone, and that weighs heavily on my heart. This is the first thing that international travelers should do."

Holloway also suggested that travelers educate themselves about their destination. Find out where the U.S. embassy is located, familiarize yourself with the country's legal system, locate the police department before traveling. And take these numbers and addresses on the trip.

At the end of her presentation, Holloway's message for the parents and grandparents in attendance was simple.

"Your sons and daughters need to be reminded that their personal safety is up to them, no matter where they go," Holloway said. "It's too late for Natalee. And it's too late for me. But it is not too late for you and your children."

Holloway recently established the International Safe Travels Foundation which prepares Auburn University students for traveling abroad. For more information on the foundation, go to: www.safetravelsfoundation.org.

http://www.cantonrep.com:80/index.php?ID=403958&Category=9&subCategoryID=0


Thank you Klaas.

Beth is one remarkable woman ... a true testament to her faith as she unselfishly reaches out beyond her pain for the benefit of others.

Janet

+++++++++

Romans 8:28
We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
klaasend
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« Reply #687 on: March 18, 2008, 10:47:59 AM »

I learned from a source that there is only one place/person(?) on Aruba where a large commercial fish trap would have originated.  This should make it a reasonable venture figuring out who's trap we found.  The next logical move would be after finding them, asking them to explain their missing trap.  1) How did they lose it  2) why was it lost where it was 3) what were it's contents when it was "lost" and 3) what boat was used to transport the trap.

Any ideas of who may have possessed such a trap?
Approx. 7.5 x 7.5 x 2.5ft, and 200-300lbs, hundreds of feet of rope complete with 4-point rigging. 

RUMOR is that such a trap could have been used as a drug "post office" of sorts.  I have no idea who would have been the owner of the trap but suspect if true it was put there intentionally.

It was also mentioned that a trap that size could have come from one of the Venezuelan fishing ships passing through.
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GBMW
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« Reply #688 on: March 18, 2008, 10:53:36 AM »

I have a question that has been in the back of my mind all day.  I recall reading that one of the infamous three claimed that Koen had been at Urine's house earlier on the evening of May 29th.  Does anyone else remember reading this in the volumes of statements that were given?      It continues to bother me that Koen's family sold the boat so fast and moved.  Could it be that when the Kalpoes went by Urine's house (but didn't go in  ) on the way to see the sharks, that Koen was still there in the apartment?  Perhaps Paulass had both the boat and the help of another father in taking Natalee to the ocean.       
Sander GOTTENBOS statement
,<snip>

On your question if I have been at Joran’s house after what happened: I can explain to you the following:
I have been at its house after it happened. I have been three times at its house.

On your question who were also at Joran’s house when I went there, I will explain to you the following:
I went twice with my brother Koen, Amanda, Flor and Gilayta. The little girls had gone with me three times.
Also Joran had asked Sander to go out with him that night but Sander was going on Dads boat so he said NO .SO the GOTTENBOS boat was already in the water


On your question about how the conversation went, I will tell you the following;
The conversation went that I asked him if he wanted to go out on my fathers boat.

He said that he could not go because he was going to play poker at the Holiday Inn. There is tournament each Sunday in aforementioned hotel and Joran participates almost each week in that tournament.


On your question what kind of boat my father has, I will explain to you the following:
It is a speedboat, of the make "Sea Pro".

On your question if Joran had been on our boat before, I will explain to you the following:
Joran has never been on our boat and has also never with our dangers. (?)
It should read:

"Joran has never been on our boat and also has never been boating with us".




Thanks, Blonde!  I have always felt that Koen was the fourth member of Urine's party that night.  He wasn't with them at C&Cs, so he was never identified as one of the males that Natalee left with.  In the myriad of statements from Urine, Tweedle-Dee, and Tweedle-Dumb, they have said that they drove by Urine's house, but didn't go in.  I wonder if they went to Urine's house to either pick up Koen who was waiting for them or if they joined the waiting Koen in Urine's apartment for a preplanned assault on Natalee.  I don't think that Koen was ever questioned by ALE, although Sander was.  Koen is supposedly studying in Holland now and I also wonder if he is the person who Patrick says is Daury in Rotterdam.  Didn't he wet the bed and sleep with his mother following Natalee's disappearance?  If he is Daury in Rotterdam, I hope that he has lots of adult diapers.  I've also heard that Koen is a cousin of Urine.

Sander Gottenbosch used to play soccer for FC Eindhoven; he left there after FC Eindhoven heard about his possible involvement (Koen & Sander being friends of Joran - selling their boat shortly after the dissapearance & being interrogated in June 2005) with the dissapearance of Natalee Holloway. He was suspended at first but left at the request of the FC Eindhoven technical staff. If he was 'just questioned'; why would FC Eindhoven ask a player to leave?

And if Koen wasn't questioned by the police...that fact would also fit in the description of 'Daury' that Joran gave Patrick....that this guy, of all his friends, wasn't interrogated by the police.
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #689 on: March 18, 2008, 11:06:29 AM »

GBMW          Reply #688 on: Today at 10:53:36 AM »  

Sander Gottenbosch used to play soccer for FC Eindhoven; he left there after FC Eindhoven heard about his possible involvement (Koen & Sander being friends of Joran - selling their boat shortly after the dissapearance & being interrogated in June 2005) with the dissapearance of Natalee Holloway. He was suspended at first but left at the request of the FC Eindhoven technical staff. If he was 'just questioned'; why would FC Eindhoven ask a player to leave?

And if Koen wasn't questioned by the police...that fact would also fit in the description of 'Daury' that Joran gave Patrick....that this guy, of all his friends, wasn't interrogated by the police.

++++

GBMW
…I have a post saved somewhere from another forum that said that Sander was going to be arrested when Guido Wever was in May of 2006. Also one where Jossy Mansur said that it was not Guido that had the scratches but another who was in the Netherlands. Jossy felt that Koen needed to be questioned more.

I will see if I can find it all and post…LOL…amy take a while…I am not Tamikosmom!

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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #690 on: March 18, 2008, 11:11:08 AM »

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/features/16774701.html

Dan Gross: Greta Van Susteren rips Bochetto warning on Aruba tourism

By Dan Gross
Philadelphia Daily News

LOCAL ATTORNEY George Bochetto sent a letter to Fox News Channel's Greta Van Susteren and other cable-news programs on behalf of the Aruba Hotel and Tourist Association, threatening to bring legal action against them because of what the letter called "recent attacks and slanderous statements being made about the tourism industry in Aruba and the Natalee Holloway investigation."
Van Susteren mocked the letter on her program Friday night, begging Bochetto to sue her. "Bring it on," she said, adding: "I will waive all requirements, because I want to get all of these people under oath and depositions."

Other panelists on the show, including attorneys Bernie Grimm and Ted Williams, also ridiculed Bochetto's letter.

Local guy John Pauly, a former TV producer/reporter, is the media adviser to the Aruba chief prosecutor's office. He says Van Susteren "completely distorted the letter to make herself look macho," and once again distorted the story, which is "the very thing the letter was trying to remedy."



Thanks Klaas

Janet

++++++++++++++


Bochetto & Lentz,P.C.

Address:  1524 Locust St.
Philadelphia, PA 19102-4401
Map & Directions 
 
Phone:  (215) 735-3900
Fax:  (215) 735-2455

http://pview.findlaw.com/view/2001047_1?noconfirm=0&channel=LP


On the Record w/ Greta
Aruban Group Threatens to Sue Greta
Monday, March 17, 2008
FOXNEWS


This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," March 14, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Well, hold on to your seats. someone, actually a group, wants to sue me — sort of.

Well, get this: Just hours ago I got a letter from an American lawyer who represents the Aruba Hotel and Tourism association. In the letter, the association accuses me and other members of the media of slanderous statements about their Aruban tourism industry and the Natalee Holloway investigation, and they are threatening to bring legal proceedings if we don't stop our false and malicious rhetoric.

Huh? Let's see what the legal panel thinks of this letter. Joining us live in San Francisco, criminal defense attorney Michael Cardoza, and here in Washington, criminal defense attorneys Ted Williams and Bernie Grimm.

Ted, my first call, of course, is to my husband John Cole. He is going to be my lawyer. He has saved me on more than one occasion. But what am I going to do?

TED WILLIAMS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The first thing you need to do is file something against this ignorant, incompetent lawyer, who would send a letter — you cannot defame and sue a country. There is a lawyer should have a —

VAN SUSTEREN: He is suing me.

WILLIAMS: Even you, on behalf of this country? Get real.

VAN SUSTEREN: Can I tell you, my response to this, Ted, is "bring it on." Will you please sue me? Sue me right now? I will wave all requirements, because I want to get all of these people under oath and depositions, because I would love it.

WILLIAMS: This guy is stuck on stupid, and Bernie will take it from there.

BERNIE GRIMM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: OK, thanks, Greta. Greta just hired me. That's 200 bucks I made.

Ted is right. I think, and Jim Hammer counseled me on this —

VAN SUSTEREN: He isn't here tonight.

GRIMM: Oh. Well, Jim's watching — that I am going to resign from the practice of law because I feel like an idiot that I even share the same membership of this guy.

VAN SUSTEREN: No, we want this guy to sue me. Michael Cardoza, can you make this guy sue me? Do you realize that if I get sued, I get to prove everything? I get to depose police. It is a field day.

MICHAEL CARDOZA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If you are sued, you can talk about it even more. This law suit is about as well thought out as their investigation was, or this threatened lawsuit.

How are they going to prove damages, number one? Damages cannot be speculative. I know tourism went —

VAN SUSTEREN: Wait — that is the best thing. Tourism, we found out today, is up eight percent. That is the second thing.

WILLIAMS: And it may now go down, because he is now refreshing the public memory that they could not find Natalee Holloway in Aruba, and so now he may have hurt tourism in that country by this idiotic letter.

CARDOZA: How do you prove proximate cause, too? How do you prove that your statements were the cause of what they say is tourism going down there?

VAN SUSTEREN: Whose side are you on? White a second. I want them to sue me. Do not tell them not to. I want them to.

WILLIAMS: Is this a real law firm? Where did they get their law license?

VAN SUSTEREN: I don't know, but think of the discovery —

CARDOZA: You know what I think?

VAN SUSTEREN: What?

CARDOZA: One thing I do now, that when things happen, like Aruba — people forget about them rather quickly. In a year or so, even if, assuming, which I doubt, tourism went down for them, people would be flooding back there.

Now everybody listening is probably saying, what are they doing? Now I am really not going to Aruba. So they themselves are driving tourism down because of this silliness.

VAN SUSTEREN: Bernie?

GRIMM: After reflection, I think there is actually a cause action, and they should sue you.

VAN SUSTEREN: Thank you, Bernie.

GRIMM: Greta has made some statement, and I think I have made statements as well that are false.

VAN SUSTEREN: I just asked the questions.

WILLIAMS: I have never called for a boycott of Aruba, but I can tell you —

VAN SUSTEREN: What a coward he is.

CARDOZA: This is one where the only ones that are going to make money are the lawyers involved.

WILLIAMS: But this lawyer should give the money back to his clients, because he is stealing money from them in this circumstance.

CARDOZA: And certainly do not mention the guys name and give him the credit of doing that.

VAN SUSTEREN: Bernie, what possesses a lawyer to send this?

GRIMM: It is something that possess nine out of ten lawyers, which is money.

WILLIAMS: Money.

GRIMM: And it is unfortunate because they make money by exploiting people and convincing them that they can win a case. It is sad.

VAN SUSTEREN: The other thing is that nothing is stated in here, nothing specific, nothing at all. What is it that we said? That they have not solved the case?

WILLIAMS: That there are idiots down there doing the investigation.

VAN SUSTEREN: Ted keeps saying horrible things.

GRIMM: FOX News appears to rely on false information, speculation, and reckless accusations. Hold up, here is the last part — Bernie Grimm is a very handsome.

CARDOZA: — intimidate FOX.

VAN SUSTEREN: But the thing is — I do not know. Maybe they did solve the case and we are wrong.

WILLIAMS: No. This is just idiotic incompetence — an incompetent attorney. Let's put it that way.

GRIMM: Ted, do you think that the Aruba Hotel and Tourism Association, what should they do about their legal fee?

WILLIAMS: Get it back quickly, or retain me to get it back for them.

VAN SUSTEREN: And John Cole, my husband, a very busy man if we get sued. We'll have fun.

Panel, thank you.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,338670,00.html
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #691 on: March 18, 2008, 11:21:41 AM »

I learned from a source that there is only one place/person(?) on Aruba where a large commercial fish trap would have originated.  This should make it a reasonable venture figuring out who's trap we found.  The next logical move would be after finding them, asking them to explain their missing trap.  1) How did they lose it  2) why was it lost where it was 3) what were it's contents when it was "lost" and 3) what boat was used to transport the trap.

Any ideas of who may have possessed such a trap?
Approx. 7.5 x 7.5 x 2.5ft, and 200-300lbs, hundreds of feet of rope complete with 4-point rigging. 

RUMOR is that such a trap could have been used as a drug "post office" of sorts.  I have no idea who would have been the owner of the trap but suspect if true it was put there intentionally.

It was also mentioned that a trap that size could have come from one of the Venezuelan fishing ships passing through.

We've internally discussed the possibility of a "post office" of sorts while awaiting forensic testing results. 
The problems with this theory include: 
-little or no evident anchor scars from a boat or boats at or anywhere near the site which would support diving ops.
-The trap shows no apparent evidence of human tampering one would expect from in situ placement and removal of objects inside the trap. The sand inside the trap shows no disruption.  The soft growth on the trap shows no obvious scars, where something scrapes or slides on the trap during a placement or withdrawal.

The potential issues of a Venezuelan fishing vessel passing through:
- The location of the trap is significantly out of the way for passing through vessels. 
- The location of the trap is not in an area where fishermen fish with commercial traps.
- There are no significant near by seabed obstructions which the trap would have gotten hung-up on to explain it's loss.
- The trap is only in 90ft of water, which makes it easily recoverable by divers if accidentally lost.
Other notes:
- The location is in the lee of the island, which makes the location somewhat weather protected and therefore less likely to have been lost during a storm.
- The trap appears to be in it's original location, as evident by an impact depression in the seabed clearly seen in the sonar.
-It appears the trap hit the bottom very hard as in a free fall.  One corner hit just before the others and the trap seemingly "bounced" a few feet and remained in its current position and orientation.   
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Personally, I prefer searching for lost shipwrecks.  They're bigger and don't have living enemies.
SEARCH FOR NATALEE BLOG:
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #692 on: March 18, 2008, 11:23:12 AM »

GBMW...Here is some I have saved...


: Mon May 22, 2006 1:22 am    Post subject:  from hyscience 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
You're welcome Harry. It has been interesting to read around and I may have just gotten more confused than clarified. I'm going to bed now. You and me seem to be the only one's up late tonight and commenting.

There seem to be enough folks speculating about three people that my guess is there will be if it has not happened already. I think your original assessment that this Wever arrest is more than a suspect, perhaps a real charge, is likely accurate. The only reason I might guess that it may not be is the interview with Joe T >> I just didn't get the impression that he was convinced since he stressed they had known about him since the beginning.

One post somewhere said that Weaver worked the casino the night Natalee disappeared, my impression was for a few hours after her disappearance, and that others who worked with him thought he acted nervous (that wasn't their adjective, but it was similar), then he abruptly quit after her disappearance and moved to Holland. It is claimed by some he had scratches and bruises after here disappearance, but some were disputing this. He and Joran also were alleged to have played tennis the afternoon after Natalee disappeared.

I did find over at Refugees that someone seems to think these below are the three people being arrested. They say that Guido Wever was arrested last Wed and is the subject of the Dutch news interview and the one that Aruba wants to come back to be charged,that his attorney will fight this. One person said this Wever is not Lorenzo, but I am not sure about that. One said that Wever is not his Dutch last name, but his Dutch name does not exist in Aruba so he is called Wever - I have no idea is this is accurate and did not see this posted but once.

There is some speculation that the Columbian that some claim to have been arrested in Aruba may be the famous Jossy witness gardener.
++++

Reply #950 on: January 22, 2008, 04:48:35 AM »    Quote
 
Bringing this discussion from August forward as Jossy is quoted as saying that it was not Guido who had the scratches.   


dialogue from final LCD thread on August 11, 2007, 07:07:02 PM

How did Guido get into this picture, charged as suspected as being accomplice to among other things heavy battery, "Grievous Bodily Harm". What time did Guido leave work that late night?

Anybody think that Guido was questioned in the first week of June 05 because of scratch/other witnesses, unrelated to Joran...initially?

I've a question. Did Jossy say or write that the scratches were on GvC not Guido?

He was detained last Wednesday. He was considered a witness in June, 2005. Since February of this year, he is now a suspect. Prosecutor in Aruba want him very quickly. Main evidence against him is witness made statements against him. He claims that he is innocent and never met Natalee last June.

Jossy says he will have to come back to Aruba and the case will go forward in court. Guido Wever is his name. He did not have scratches or bruises on him last June. He was interrogated last June. Good friend of Joran. Played Tennis with him and gambles with Joran. Jossy believes Guido is in bigger trouble than GVC ever was. GVC never knew Joran.

Also, according to Jossy Mansur of Diario in Aruba Guido Weaver is not the individual that was arrested the other day with the scratches on his face. Guido Weaver is another detained individual. The identity of the individual who was arrested with the scratches has yet to be identified.
++++

From Katoblog.com
Another tidbit tossed out by Mansur includes the information that the young man to the left, indentified as "Koen" left the island of Aruba shortly after Natalee disappeared.
"...One key person in this case left the island hurriedly one or two days after Natalee disappeared, and that is Koen. He was sent to Holland and has never come back. Now they are selling their home at Malmok, giving us to understand they have moved permanently to Holland. We believe he had a strong hand in this affair."
++++

January 26, 2008, 09:45:29 PM
: Mon May 22, 2006 1:22 am   
Post subject:  from hyscience

  You're welcome Harry. It has been interesting to read around and I may have just gotten more confused than clarified. I'm going to bed now. You and me seem to be the only one's up late tonight and commenting.

 There seem to be enough folks speculating about three people that my guess is there will be if it has not happened already. I think your original assessment that this Wever arrest is more than a suspect, perhaps a real charge, is likely accurate. The only reason I might guess that it may not be is the interview with Joe T >> I just didn't get the impression that he was convinced since he stressed they had known about him since the beginning.
 
One post somewhere said that Weaver worked the casino the night Natalee disappeared, my impression was for a few hours after her disappearance, and that others who worked with him thought he acted nervous (that wasn't their adjective, but it was similar), then he abruptly quit after her disappearance and moved to Holland. It is claimed by some he had scratches and bruises after here disappearance, but some were disputing this. He and Joran also were alleged to have played tennis the afternoon after Natalee disappeared.
 
I did find over at Refugees that someone seems to think these below are the three people being arrested. They say that Guido Wever was arrested last Wed and is the subject of the Dutch news interview and the one that Aruba wants to come back to be charged,that his attorney will fight this. One person said this Wever is not Lorenzo, but I am not sure about that. One said that Wever is not his Dutch last name, but his Dutch name does not exist in Aruba so he is called Wever - I have no idea is this is accurate and did not see this posted but once.

There is some speculation that the Columbian that some claim to have been arrested in Aruba may be the famous Jossy witness gardener.

I'll just be tyou will have it all sorted out by Friday. Here are the three:

 1. Guido Wever who use to work at the Excelcior Casino as "dealer", who use to play tennis at the Aruba Raquet club, and who is the son of a political party's leader, Robert Wever, was detained in the Netherlands.

 2. Sander G. is the kid in school in Aruba that left before his finals and flew to Holland last week and now is detained in the Netherlands. (Some speculated that he is Koen's younger brother, but don't know if this is accurate.)

Carlos Alberto Penata Ramos is a Colombian man who was detained in Aruba. (Some speculated that he also is Jossy's gardener witness.)


 
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #693 on: March 18, 2008, 11:23:51 AM »

GBMW          Reply #688 on: Today at 10:53:36 AM »  

Sander Gottenbosch used to play soccer for FC Eindhoven; he left there after FC Eindhoven heard about his possible involvement (Koen & Sander being friends of Joran - selling their boat shortly after the dissapearance & being interrogated in June 2005) with the dissapearance of Natalee Holloway. He was suspended at first but left at the request of the FC Eindhoven technical staff. If he was 'just questioned'; why would FC Eindhoven ask a player to leave?

And if Koen wasn't questioned by the police...that fact would also fit in the description of 'Daury' that Joran gave Patrick....that this guy, of all his friends, wasn't interrogated by the police.

++++

GBMW
…I have a post saved somewhere from another forum that said that Sander was going to be arrested when Guido Wever was in May of 2006. Also one where Jossy Mansur said that it was not Guido that had the scratches but another who was in the Netherlands. Jossy felt that Koen needed to be questioned more.

I will see if I can find it all and post…LOL…amy take a while…I am not Tamikosmom!



Koen was questioned by the polis.  There are two dates that clearly indicate he was questioned.  June 16 and June 20.  I know there have been rumors of his daddy being the one questioned the second time, but that would be very difficult to explain if true since those documents have been subpoenaed in the Dr. Phil lawsuit. Too bad they will never be produced.
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ala_gunslinger
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« Reply #694 on: March 18, 2008, 11:31:01 AM »

I learned from a source that there is only one place/person(?) on Aruba where a large commercial fish trap would have originated.  This should make it a reasonable venture figuring out who's trap we found.  The next logical move would be after finding them, asking them to explain their missing trap.  1) How did they lose it  2) why was it lost where it was 3) what were it's contents when it was "lost" and 3) what boat was used to transport the trap.

Any ideas of who may have possessed such a trap?
Approx. 7.5 x 7.5 x 2.5ft, and 200-300lbs, hundreds of feet of rope complete with 4-point rigging. 

RUMOR is that such a trap could have been used as a drug "post office" of sorts.  I have no idea who would have been the owner of the trap but suspect if true it was put there intentionally.

It was also mentioned that a trap that size could have come from one of the Venezuelan fishing ships passing through.

We've internally discussed the possibility of a "post office" of sorts while awaiting forensic testing results. 
The problems with this theory include: 
-little or no evident anchor scars from a boat or boats at or anywhere near the site which would support diving ops.
-The trap shows no apparent evidence of human tampering one would expect from in situ placement and removal of objects inside the trap. The sand inside the trap shows no disruption.  The soft growth on the trap shows no obvious scars, where something scrapes or slides on the trap during a placement or withdrawal.

The potential issues of a Venezuelan fishing vessel passing through:
- The location of the trap is significantly out of the way for passing through vessels. 
- The location of the trap is not in an area where fishermen fish with commercial traps.
- There are no significant near by seabed obstructions which the trap would have gotten hung-up on to explain it's loss.
- The trap is only in 90ft of water, which makes it easily recoverable by divers if accidentally lost.
Other notes:
- The location is in the lee of the island, which makes the location somewhat weather protected and therefore less likely to have been lost during a storm.
- The trap appears to be in it's original location, as evident by an impact depression in the seabed clearly seen in the sonar.
-It appears the trap hit the bottom very hard as in a free fall.  One corner hit just before the others and the trap seemingly "bounced" a few feet and remained in its current position and orientation.   

Good morning ya'll!

If I remember correctly, it also appeared that the trap 'skidded' after impact.
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #695 on: March 18, 2008, 11:44:03 AM »

SS…Hi...Koen was questioned twice by ALE and Sander once.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/civil_court_docs/arubancounselfile.htm


Name: Koen Gottenbos
Date: 16 June 2005 / 17:15
Pages: 10
Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes & Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement of a friend of the Kalpoe's and Van der Sloot

Name: Koen Gottenbos
Date: 20 June 2005 / 13:25
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem I Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement

Name: Sander Gottenbos Date: 16 June 2005 / 17:10
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Clyde Burke
Description: witness statement (brother of Koen Gottenbos)


Good morning Lala's...Coffee and a lamington?
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GBMW
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« Reply #696 on: March 18, 2008, 11:49:01 AM »

GBMW...Here is some I have saved...


: Mon May 22, 2006 1:22 am    Post subject:  from hyscience 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
You're welcome Harry. It has been interesting to read around and I may have just gotten more confused than clarified. I'm going to bed now. You and me seem to be the only one's up late tonight and commenting.

There seem to be enough folks speculating about three people that my guess is there will be if it has not happened already. I think your original assessment that this Wever arrest is more than a suspect, perhaps a real charge, is likely accurate. The only reason I might guess that it may not be is the interview with Joe T >> I just didn't get the impression that he was convinced since he stressed they had known about him since the beginning.

One post somewhere said that Weaver worked the casino the night Natalee disappeared, my impression was for a few hours after her disappearance, and that others who worked with him thought he acted nervous (that wasn't their adjective, but it was similar), then he abruptly quit after her disappearance and moved to Holland. It is claimed by some he had scratches and bruises after here disappearance, but some were disputing this. He and Joran also were alleged to have played tennis the afternoon after Natalee disappeared.

I did find over at Refugees that someone seems to think these below are the three people being arrested. They say that Guido Wever was arrested last Wed and is the subject of the Dutch news interview and the one that Aruba wants to come back to be charged,that his attorney will fight this. One person said this Wever is not Lorenzo, but I am not sure about that. One said that Wever is not his Dutch last name, but his Dutch name does not exist in Aruba so he is called Wever - I have no idea is this is accurate and did not see this posted but once.

There is some speculation that the Columbian that some claim to have been arrested in Aruba may be the famous Jossy witness gardener.
++++

Reply #950 on: January 22, 2008, 04:48:35 AM »    Quote
 
Bringing this discussion from August forward as Jossy is quoted as saying that it was not Guido who had the scratches.   


dialogue from final LCD thread on August 11, 2007, 07:07:02 PM

How did Guido get into this picture, charged as suspected as being accomplice to among other things heavy battery, "Grievous Bodily Harm". What time did Guido leave work that late night?

Anybody think that Guido was questioned in the first week of June 05 because of scratch/other witnesses, unrelated to Joran...initially?

I've a question. Did Jossy say or write that the scratches were on GvC not Guido?

He was detained last Wednesday. He was considered a witness in June, 2005. Since February of this year, he is now a suspect. Prosecutor in Aruba want him very quickly. Main evidence against him is witness made statements against him. He claims that he is innocent and never met Natalee last June.

Jossy says he will have to come back to Aruba and the case will go forward in court. Guido Wever is his name. He did not have scratches or bruises on him last June. He was interrogated last June. Good friend of Joran. Played Tennis with him and gambles with Joran. Jossy believes Guido is in bigger trouble than GVC ever was. GVC never knew Joran.

Also, according to Jossy Mansur of Diario in Aruba Guido Weaver is not the individual that was arrested the other day with the scratches on his face. Guido Weaver is another detained individual. The identity of the individual who was arrested with the scratches has yet to be identified.
++++

From Katoblog.com
Another tidbit tossed out by Mansur includes the information that the young man to the left, indentified as "Koen" left the island of Aruba shortly after Natalee disappeared.
"...One key person in this case left the island hurriedly one or two days after Natalee disappeared, and that is Koen. He was sent to Holland and has never come back. Now they are selling their home at Malmok, giving us to understand they have moved permanently to Holland. We believe he had a strong hand in this affair."
++++

January 26, 2008, 09:45:29 PM
: Mon May 22, 2006 1:22 am   
Post subject:  from hyscience

  You're welcome Harry. It has been interesting to read around and I may have just gotten more confused than clarified. I'm going to bed now. You and me seem to be the only one's up late tonight and commenting.

 There seem to be enough folks speculating about three people that my guess is there will be if it has not happened already. I think your original assessment that this Wever arrest is more than a suspect, perhaps a real charge, is likely accurate. The only reason I might guess that it may not be is the interview with Joe T >> I just didn't get the impression that he was convinced since he stressed they had known about him since the beginning.
 
One post somewhere said that Weaver worked the casino the night Natalee disappeared, my impression was for a few hours after her disappearance, and that others who worked with him thought he acted nervous (that wasn't their adjective, but it was similar), then he abruptly quit after her disappearance and moved to Holland. It is claimed by some he had scratches and bruises after here disappearance, but some were disputing this. He and Joran also were alleged to have played tennis the afternoon after Natalee disappeared.
 
I did find over at Refugees that someone seems to think these below are the three people being arrested. They say that Guido Wever was arrested last Wed and is the subject of the Dutch news interview and the one that Aruba wants to come back to be charged,that his attorney will fight this. One person said this Wever is not Lorenzo, but I am not sure about that. One said that Wever is not his Dutch last name, but his Dutch name does not exist in Aruba so he is called Wever - I have no idea is this is accurate and did not see this posted but once.

There is some speculation that the Columbian that some claim to have been arrested in Aruba may be the famous Jossy witness gardener.

I'll just be tyou will have it all sorted out by Friday. Here are the three:

 1. Guido Wever who use to work at the Excelcior Casino as "dealer", who use to play tennis at the Aruba Raquet club, and who is the son of a political party's leader, Robert Wever, was detained in the Netherlands.

 2. Sander G. is the kid in school in Aruba that left before his finals and flew to Holland last week and now is detained in the Netherlands. (Some speculated that he is Koen's younger brother, but don't know if this is accurate.)

Carlos Alberto Penata Ramos is a Colombian man who was detained in Aruba. (Some speculated that he also is Jossy's gardener witness.)


 


Thanks; that's very interesting!
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BTgirl
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« Reply #697 on: March 18, 2008, 11:50:24 AM »

I learned from a source that there is only one place/person(?) on Aruba where a large commercial fish trap would have originated.  This should make it a reasonable venture figuring out who's trap we found.  The next logical move would be after finding them, asking them to explain their missing trap.  1) How did they lose it  2) why was it lost where it was 3) what were it's contents when it was "lost" and 3) what boat was used to transport the trap.

Any ideas of who may have possessed such a trap?
Approx. 7.5 x 7.5 x 2.5ft, and 200-300lbs, hundreds of feet of rope complete with 4-point rigging. 

Is it possible to tell form the condition of the trap how long it might have been at its current location?

Thanks.
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I Stand With The Girl
AZSunny
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« Reply #698 on: March 18, 2008, 11:55:04 AM »

Hi Kyle,
 Are you saying that final forensic testing results have not been concluded?

It certainly seems the trap was intentionally dropped there by your description.  Fascinating anaylsis. thanks!
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #699 on: March 18, 2008, 12:00:23 PM »

Morning Mum, yes please.
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