Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 - 3/19/08

[private eye]

I have got to run but I will be checking back in a couple of hours. It sure seems right for Mr ******* to be back kicking ass, exposing, investigating, and being a very positive force in the cage:)

[LoRain]

Hi Monkeys 

Just dropping in to leave something I have not used in a while but still care with me on the Internet as a reminder.


For almost 3 years I have seen people come here with 2nd / 3rd hand knowledge and state that... Yet they are quizzed / questioned / pushed / hammerd like they had 1st had knowledge  Why? 

Do we think they should have done more?  Do we want their thoughts so that we can agree / disagee with them? Do we think they are lying to us?

I'm just so thankful to all that conducted the sea search and to OE  for keeping us up todate with what they could share with us.

No I will not stick around to debate what I feel, for no amount of debate will change my view, in that at times we Nit / Pick to death  those that provide information to us.
JMO
OldFart

Great post...seems to fit the day I had today....

[SS]

Quote Bladerunner...
Kyle your previous post indicates that the crew of the persistence "supervised" the collection of the contents of the trap as well as items outside of the trap. So are these "samples" what was given to the FBI by Richardson?

-In short... the only specific item mentioned as being sent was the fabric found inside the trap.  It's unclear whether what was sent to the FBI by Richardson was limited to this fabric, or included this fabric and other items.  Someone else may know more.  This is what I'm sure of.

It sounds like Richardson may or may not have been forthcoming with all of the contents of the trap.
I am a little confused.   Kyle was saying that he watched the Dutch boat from the beach two days in a row for about 42 minutes.  He said that he plotted the location by using his watch and landmarks.  It doesn't even sound like Persistence was even in the same area when Panther was at the trap site.  How could Tim and the others have supervised the recovery and handling of the trap contents if Persistence wasn't at the site?

[Blue Moon]

What day was Paulus and Anita observed on the beach watching the Persistence?  Was that the same day the big Dutch ship was in port?  Makes you wonder who alerted them that they felt they needed to do their own observation at the beach.

[klaasend]

[private eye]

I fear the the crew of the Persistence were not fully aware of the dynamics encompassing the established coverup in the Aruban investigation ... the coverup to protect Joran and Paulus van der Sloot from implication ... the coverup that has prevented justice from prevail for an American citizen ... the coverup that has forced the family of Natalee Holloway to ride a roller coaster from H--- for almost three years.

Janet

++++++++++++++

Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 1, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER: Well, of course, it's very frustrating. You know, the entire investigation, that's all we've had is frustration coming out of the officials from Aruba.  You know, evidence—you know when evidence is gathered and lost or evidence is never gathered when it's supposed to be, just (INAUDIBLE) the primary residence of Paulus Van Der Sloot was never searched —I mean, you know, it just can't help but raise all the questions of—and leave us frustrated.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/


Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
September 14, 2005

TWITTY: Well, Rita, like I said, we‘ve been worried as early as June 1 when we saw torn statements at a police station. We‘ve had falsified documents. I mean, we‘ve seen key elements omitted from uniformed police officers‘ statements. We‘ve had a D.E.A. whose statement was never taken.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9354188/


Beth Twitty
ARUBAN BOYCOTT
December 12, 2005

MICHELLE: One of Joran's and PVDS's alibis was that Joran was picked up at the McDonald's. PVDS originally told you the first night you met him that he picked Joran up at 4:00 a.m., but he later gave a statement that he picked Joran up at 11:00 p.m. Do you know if there are security cameras in the McDonald's parking lot to prove this claim?

BETH: On June 5, we asked officials to check to see if there were security cameras, and to this day, nothing has ever been done. No one has looked into it.


Jug Twitty
'Scarborough Country'
August 11, 2005

TWITTY: ... Those people that were with me that night, had they taken our statements at least a week after it happened, we would have already had the answer. But when they take my statement 33 days later, and they take the other guys‘ statements that were with me and ladies that were with me, you know, like 19 days later, it‘s like they didn‘t want to find the truth.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8925176/

Obviously that is my fear as well. They were in a difficult spot and due to their professionalism and ethics, I feel like they comply 100% with the Aruban requests and or protocol. I guess I wish we had one unhonorable person on board who would have taken samples of each peice of evidence, secretly. Maybe it would not be admissable in court, but we would know:) But, I will get back after I talk to Beth. I haven't heard anything about even any insignifcant evidence though.

[LoRain]

From oceanexploraton:

As of the 2nd week of Feb, this is what I had learned from the FBI:

The contents of the trap were being actively investigated.  The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample.  Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case.  The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle also mentions a Dutch "recovery" boat in the area of the trap site.

Just the blouse and not the skirt?  There was more than just one skeletal remains in that video.  I am thinking the contents were from the ocean.  The body of one the skeletal remains appeared to be drifted upward to the cage top.  The skeletal head remains seemed to be consistent in damage that was shown in the bag videos.  Also the area where the body was supposed to be first hidden photo where the trees were chopped back seemed to have the same video in there as the one that was supposed to be in the cage.  The cage video pic must have been placed in this area to give a better perspective for that area when talking about theories.    jackb

Is he saying that they found human remains in the cage, that the remains were given to the Aruban authorities, they held them for three weeks, sent them to the FBI, and the FBI reported it was not Natalee?

FWIW....the latest I have heard is that there is an "IF" included with the remains...."IF" there were remains.....

[Blue Moon]

What day was Paulus and Anita observed on the beach watching the Persistence?  Was that the same day the big Dutch ship was in port?  Makes you wonder who alerted them that they felt they needed to do their own observation at the beach.

By the way, I do not feel like we are nik-picking what OE has brought to us tonite.  He said he was only relaying 2nd and 3rd person information and just wanted this discussed here in the cage.  I feel we are only making observations and discussing, not nik-picking. I for one totally agree that the crew of the Persistence and OE and Tim Miller and others went above and beyond what any person could have ever expected from a group.  They are the best and are hero's to a lot of people.

[jackb]

Jack, I see you lurking.

What say you?

What was written if it is still there.  Jack b

[private eye]

What day was Paulus and Anita observed on the beach watching the Persistence?  Was that the same day the big Dutch ship was in port?  Makes you wonder who alerted them that they felt they needed to do their own observation at the beach.

By the way, I do not feel like we are nik-picking what OE has brought to us tonite.  He said he was only relaying 2nd and 3rd person information and just wanted this discussed here in the cage.  I feel we are only making observations and discussing, not nik-picking. I for one totally agree that the crew of the Persistence and OE and Tim Miller and others went above and beyond what any person could have ever expected from a group.  They are the best and are hero's to a lot of people.

I apologize if I was. I meant to be trying to get an understanding of exactly what was being said.

[texasmom]

SNIPPING a quote from Janet:
Also the dive was on December 30, 2007.  Why did Aruba not immediately send the fabric to the FBI for forensic testing?  Why did Aruba wait unti January 22, 2008?
----------

- We were told by Richardson that he personally immediately sent the samples to the FBI for forensic analysis.
- I was suprised to hear the Jan-22nd date.  To me there are two weeks missing there.

Hello, have you or the crew examined what was sent to the FBI from Aruba to determine if the items sent were the ones found in the cage or were there any steps taken to protect the integritry of the evidence so that you would know if they destroyed, lost, or substituted evidence? Of course, nothing productive happens in Aruba very fast, especially with them striking. Beth thought they were on strike when she first met them:)

PI ... thank you.

You articulated my thoughts exactly.

I contend that there should have been an FBI agent on board to verify the evidence prior to being turned over to Aruban authorities?

Janet

The appearance of integrity is almost as important as integrity, and the Arubians have none of either as it relates to this case. Any evidence they are allowed to possess is evidence that might as well have not been discovered, other than to help complete the coverup. The sad thing is we will believe that regardless as they have lost even the perception of integrity. Surely the remains were not turned over to Aruba without even a bone or a piece of bone being kept by someone to corroborate that the evidence was protected in the chain of custody.

Sad, but true PI.  As I said before I've been trying to not be skeptical of those in charge of this investigation in Aruba.  With many from the beginning of the case replaced I so wanted to believe that things would be different.  But my stomach is telling me that nothing's changed.  Also, Kyle stated earlier that the samples that were sent to the FBI were collected on Jan 7th.  None of the cameras from Dateline, or many that were present for the Dec 30th dive were there.

[LoRain]

O.K. has anyone ever determined who on that island has access/owns a cage that size? They would also have to have the means to release this cage in 90 ft of water without regard to the cost of the cage. It is a heavy cage so disposal would have to have been aided by something more mechanical instead of human hands.  OR could a  helicopter have accomplished this without a problem?

Perhaps they used the rope....tied to the cage and the boat and dragged it through the water....

[Blue Moon]

What day was Paulus and Anita observed on the beach watching the Persistence?  Was that the same day the big Dutch ship was in port?  Makes you wonder who alerted them that they felt they needed to do their own observation at the beach.

By the way, I do not feel like we are nik-picking what OE has brought to us tonite.  He said he was only relaying 2nd and 3rd person information and just wanted this discussed here in the cage.  I feel we are only making observations and discussing, not nik-picking. I for one totally agree that the crew of the Persistence and OE and Tim Miller and others went above and beyond what any person could have ever expected from a group.  They are the best and are hero's to a lot of people.

I apologize if I was. I meant to be trying to get an understanding of exactly what was being said.

Oh no I wasn't directing this to you, only to OF and their concerns that we were not appreciative of OE and the crew and what they did and that we were nik-picking the information by asking questions.  I just feel we are discussing this like OE asked us to after putting forward a few tidbits.  No disrespect to you or anyone at all. sorry.

[texasmom]

I have got to run but I will be checking back in a couple of hours. It sure seems right for Mr ******* to be back kicking ass, exposing, investigating, and being a very positive force in the cage:)

   

[Magnolia]

What day was Paulus and Anita observed on the beach watching the Persistence?  Was that the same day the big Dutch ship was in port?  Makes you wonder who alerted them that they felt they needed to do their own observation at the beach.

I don't remember the exact date, but it was a day or two before they
left for NL to appear on the talk show with Joran and Peter R. DeVries.

[jackb]

From oceanexploraton:

Is he saying that they found human remains in the cage, that the remains were given to the Aruban authorities, they held them for three weeks, sent them to the FBI, and the FBI reported it was not Natalee?

Kyle said 2 weeks..He also said Dolfi Richardson said he would personally send them out immediately.

I would not have that bunch on my ship, as they are known in that area for using Rupinol and GhB on folks.  Watch the drinking water.  LOL
Hopefully, LOL.       jackb

[crazybabyborg]

What day was Paulus and Anita observed on the beach watching the Persistence?  Was that the same day the big Dutch ship was in port?  Makes you wonder who alerted them that they felt they needed to do their own observation at the beach.

I don't remember the exact date, but it was a day or two before they
left for NL to appear on the talk show with Joran and Peter R. DeVries.

I'll bet they'd like to turn back time to that day, don't you? 

Hi everybody! 

[Magnolia]

What day was Paulus and Anita observed on the beach watching the Persistence?  Was that the same day the big Dutch ship was in port?  Makes you wonder who alerted them that they felt they needed to do their own observation at the beach.

By the way, I do not feel like we are nik-picking what OE has brought to us tonite.  He said he was only relaying 2nd and 3rd person information and just wanted this discussed here in the cage.  I feel we are only making observations and discussing, not nik-picking. I for one totally agree that the crew of the Persistence and OE and Tim Miller and others went above and beyond what any person could have ever expected from a group.  They are the best and are hero's to a lot of people.

I apologize if I was. I meant to be trying to get an understanding of exactly what was being said.

What I got from Ocean's postings was that he wanted the Monkeys to
look into who owned the cage before it was put into the water.
If you think about it....that is very important.

[texasmom]

What day was Paulus and Anita observed on the beach watching the Persistence?  Was that the same day the big Dutch ship was in port?  Makes you wonder who alerted them that they felt they needed to do their own observation at the beach.

JANUARY 7th....PAULUS AND ANITA ON THE BEACH WATCHING THE PERSISTENCE...SAME DAY SAMPLES FOR FBI WERE TAKEN BY ARUBAN POLICE!

[Tamikosmom]

I believe that the integrity of crew of the Persistence are above reproach in their sacrificial efforts to locate to remains of Natalee Holloway.

As I have stated ... I fear that the crew did not comprehend the dynamics encompassing the coverup when they established a working relationship with the Aruban police ... Aruban authorities ... Aruban prosecutor ... Aruban dive team.

As PI pointed out in a previous post ... all these Arubans are accountable to Rudy Croes.  Rudy Croes ... the Aruban Justice Minister ... who believed that the vile accusations spewed forth by the two psychics against the mother and stepfather of Natalee Holloway should be investigated.

Janet

+++++++++++++


http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_38773.php

Amigoe
January 17, 2008
Natalee abused by stepfather Jug

This time, the local media has paid plenty of attention to the story of Dan Young and Kelly Castillo.

ORANJESTAD — Minister Rudy Croes (MEP) of Justice is of the opinion that the findings of the two American investigators Daniel Young and Kelly Castillo in the disappearance case of Natalee Holloway, must be seriously considered. The two assert that Natalee’s stepfather Jug Twitty has abused and impregnated her and that her mother Beth knew about it. The two also say that Natalee had died from an overdose two weeks after the night on the beach with Joran van der Sloot when she disappeared. “Joran is innocent”, said the investigators.

<snipped>

Croes is of the opinion that now that the case against the suspects Joran and the brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe has brought no results, the Public Prosecution must also consider other scenarios. Castillo and Young’s findings must therefore be seriously investigated, said the minister. “After Beth has been in Oprah’s program, it will be good to tell the other side of the story.” Oprah Winfrey has spent some time on the Holiday-matter in her show yesterday.


The Lineup
December 2, 2007

As for the second part, yes Beth Holloway came in this morning about 9 o'clock, about 1/2 hour later than expected in a police station in the city Oranjestadt and after which she was put in a conversation with the prosecuting office, Hans Mos and Dop Kruimel After that was finished both the prosecutors left the office or left the police station and by surprise the interrogators came in and (inaudible) by Dolph Richardson the chief investigator, they started interrogating her which lasted for over 5 hours. She left not very happy and wouldn't say anything on camera. She left the police department about 2:30.

Unofficial Transcript