Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 - 3/19/08

[klaasend]

http://www.peterrdevries.nl/tekst/column-peter-politiek-tot.htm

new column Peter R.
not related to Natalee.

in short it is about Peter being asked by the justice commitee of the parliament to hear him about the connections between the criminal world and the regular world.
the justice commitee assumed Peter would come to The Hague for that.
Peter suggested a meeting in his office in Hilversum (near Amsterdam).
but then the justice commitee wasn't interested anymore.
apparently afraid to leave their offices in The Hague.

Peter R. expect the justice commitee to come up with a report in wich they say they did 'thorough' research...

Thanks caesu!

Please let us know if you see anything else about Joran being in a Psychiatric facility. 

[Buckeye]

For Glenda and those at RU

There have been posting about Joran's apt:
        

plhtx1 wrote:


LOL. Only 17 with his own apartment and able to come and go as he pleased. Not much adult supervision, but he was only "17"




Glenda  PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:21 pm

Joran did not live in Appartment. In most of the homes in Aruba, the rooms are not connected by walls, but rather walkways. Joran's room is within 15 feet to the Parent's room and their room (also not connected) is within 15 feet of the main house where the Kitchen and Living Room probably are.


Please!!  That apartment used to be rented out.  It is more than a bedroom.  Try a bath and kitchenette.  Sheesh!

[Tater]

BBL   I'm going to my son's baseball game, wearing my brand new "Standing with the Girl" t shirt!
   

Have Fun!!

[Buckeye]

This is very long, but since we are slow and since caesu might like this site, I will post.

This is from korps suriname site quoting Amigoe, in April 2005 (before Natalee).  Seems Rudy Croes was upset with VanderStraten because he arrested someone without Rudy giving the ok.  Does the Minister of Justice order or ok prosecutions, on a routine basis??

Controverse over commissaris Van der Straten
 
ORANJESTAD — Minister van Justitie Rudy Croes (MEP) heeft een brief geschreven aan de minister van Bestuurlijke Vernieuwing en Koninkrijksrelaties, Alexander Pechtold (D66), waarin hij zijn beklag doet over het optreden van politiecommissaris Jan van der Straten.
 
De reden moet worden gezocht in het arresteren van twee medewerkers van het Bureau Informatievoorziening en Documentatie (BID) op het bestuurskantoor. Pechtold heeft inmiddels gereageerd op de brief van Croes. Hij stelt dat Van der Straten een goede staat van dienst heeft en dat hij de commotie van Croes rondom de commissaris niet begrijpt.
 
De twee BID-medewerkers werden opgepakt wegens telefonische bedreigingen vanaf het telefoontoestel op hun werkplek. Eén van de twee is geen verdachte meer in deze zaak. Tegen de tweede persoon, K.J.K., loopt nog een strafrechtelijk onderzoek. Hij wordt verdacht van bedreiging. K. is voorlopig op vrije voeten gesteld. Het Openbaar Ministerie (OM) beslist binnenkort of het tot vervolging komt. Beide mannen werden opgepakt door het Flexiteam onder leiding van commissaris Van der Straten. Dit is de Justitie-minister in het verkeerde keelgat geschoten.
 
Brieven
 
De minister van Justitie stuurde daarom enige weken geleden een brief naar Pechtolds voorganger, minister Thom de Graaf van Bestuurlijke Vernieuwing en Koninkrijksrelaties, met daarin klachten over het optreden van Van der Straten. Volgens minister Croes is Van der Straten met de arrestatie van de twee BID-medewerkers buiten zijn boekje gegaan. Volgens de Justitie-minister had Van der Straten niet het mandaat van het OM om de twee te arresteren. Het OM geeft geen commentaar hierop.
 
Pechtold heeft de brief van Croes inmiddels beantwoord. Deze brief is afgelopen woensdag bij het ministerie van Justitie bezorgd. Minister-president Nelson Oduber ontving een afschrift. Volgens Victor Henriquez van het ministerie van Justitie schrijft Pechtold in deze brief dat Van der Straten een goede staat van dienst heeft. Ook schrijft Pechtold dat er nooit klachten waren over het functioneren van de commissaris en dat hij de huidige commotie niet begrijpt. Beide bewindslieden ontmoeten elkaar waarschijnlijk vandaag en morgen tijdens Pechtolds bezoek aan Aruba. Het onderwerp ‘Van der Straten’ zal zeker aan de orde komen bij dit overleg. Commissaris Van der Straten gaat overigens over twee maanden met pensioen.
 
Minister Croes heeft in de pers zijn boosheid geuit over het feit dat de Nederlandse Vertegenwoordiging zijn brief aan minister De Graaf heeft geopend en gelezen. De Nederlandse Vertegenwoordiging stelt echter dat dit een standaardprocedure is. Ronald de Kort van de Nederlandse Vertegenwoordiging: “Dit gebeurt met alle post die via ons naar het ministerie van Binnenlandse Zaken in Nederland wordt gestuurd. Wij vallen zelf immers ook onder dat ministerie en het is gebruikelijk dat de Nederlandse Vertegenwoordiging adviseert over dergelijke stukken.”
 
Van der Straten doet intussen gewoon zijn werk en ziet geen grond voor een reactie. Hij stelt dat hem geen brief is geschreven met commentaar op zijn functioneren, dus dat hem ook niet duidelijk is waarop hij zou moeten reageren.
 
Het is overigens niet de eerste keer dat Croes probeert Van der Straten weg te werken. In januari 2003 liepen de spanningen hoog op, toen minister Croes zonder opgaaf van redenen de commissaris zijn uitvoerende bevoegdheden ontnam. Enige tijd later kreeg hij die, ook weer zonder toelichting, terug. (Amigoe)

Translated:

Controverse on Commissioner Van der Straten
 

ORANJESTAD - Minister of Justice Rudy Croes (MEP) has written a letter to the Minister for Government Reform and Kingdom Relations, Alexander Pechtold (D66), in which he complains about the actions of Police Jan van der Straten.

 

The reason must be sought in the arrest of two employees of the Office of Information and Documentation (BID) on the bestuurskantoor. Pechtold has now responded to the letter of Croes. He suggested that Van der Straten a good track record and that he Croes of the commotion around the Commissioner does not understand.
 

The two BID employees were arrested because of telephone threats from the telephone in their workplace. One of the two is not a suspect in this case. Against the second person, KJK, runs a criminal investigation. He is suspected of threat. K. Has been provisionally set at liberty. The Public Attorney's Office (OM) will soon decide whether the prosecution. Both men were arrested by the Flexiteam led by Commissioner Van der Straten. This is the Justice Minister in the wrong keelgat shot.

 

Letters
 

The Minister for Justice, therefore, sent a letter several weeks ago to Pechtolds predecessor, Minister Thom de Graaf of Government Reform and Kingdom Relations, which includes complaints about the actions of Van der Straten. According to Minister Croes, Van der Straten with the arrest of the two BID employees outside his booklet gone. According to the Justice Minister had Van der Straten not the mandate of the OM every two to arrest. The OM does not comment on it.
 

Pechtold's letter Croes has been answered. This letter was last Wednesday at the Ministry of Justice delivered. Prime Minister Nelson Oduber received a copy. According to Victor Henriquez of the Ministry of Justice Pechtold writes in this letter that Van der Straten a good track record. Pechtold also writes that there were never complaints about the functioning of the Commissioner and that he does not understand the current commotion. Both leaders will meet today and probably tomorrow Pechtolds visit to Aruba. The issue of Van der Straten 'will certainly be addressed in these consultations. Commissioner Van der Straten goes about two months with retirement.
 

Minister Croes has in the press expressed his anger over the fact that the Dutch Representation his letter to Minister De Graaf has opened and read. The Dutch Representation argues, however, that this is a standard practice. Ronald de Kort of the Dutch Representation: "This happens with all correspondence received by us to the Ministry of Home Affairs in the Netherlands. We are themselves also under the same ministry, and it is customary for the Dutch Representation advises on such documents. "
 

Van der Straten meanwhile simply does his work and sees no basis for a response. He argues that his letter was not written comments on its operation, so that it is not clear where he would have to respond.
 
It is not the first time that Croes tries Van der Straten eliminated. In January 2003, tensions ran high when Croes minister without giving reasons Commissioner deprived his executive powers. Some time later he received which, again without explanation, back. (Amigoe)


http://tinyurl.com/3xfto8

[caesu]

http://www.peterrdevries.nl/tekst/column-peter-politiek-tot.htm

new column Peter R.
not related to Natalee.

in short it is about Peter being asked by the justice commitee of the parliament to hear him about the connections between the criminal world and the regular world.
the justice commitee assumed Peter would come to The Hague for that.
Peter suggested a meeting in his office in Hilversum (near Amsterdam).
but then the justice commitee wasn't interested anymore.
apparently afraid to leave their offices in The Hague.

Peter R. expect the justice commitee to come up with a report in wich they say they did 'thorough' research...

Thanks caesu!

Please let us know if you see anything else about Joran being in a Psychiatric facility. 

i will do that.
for now only source is Privé tabloid.

also in Roosenburg there are 10 places for 16 week period stay.
and 2 places for an extended stay. it is a full day/night stay. not only day care are a few days in the week.
two units, 6 places each.
http://www.altrecht.nl/www/site/32/180/332

it is voluntary. i doubt Joran would have comitted himself to stay there for 4 months.

i posted the same on Fok! dutch forum, but it was removed.
understandbly, because maybe a mob will lay siege there like what happened in Drachten.

there is also a clinic for post-TBS-treatment in the same building.
but this is for offenders who have been convicted and are released from TBS.
so Joran is not there - or they made an exception.
24 places, both a open units (D) and closed units (BC) (intensive care).
http://www.altrecht.nl/www/site/32/180/331

[klaasend]

Thanks again caesu!

[Nut44x4]

For Glenda and those at RU

There have been posting about Joran's apt:
        

plhtx1 wrote:


LOL. Only 17 with his own apartment and able to come and go as he pleased. Not much adult supervision, but he was only "17"




Glenda  PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:21 pm

Joran did not live in Appartment. In most of the homes in Aruba, the rooms are not connected by walls, but rather walkways. Joran's room is within 15 feet to the Parent's room and their room (also not connected) is within 15 feet of the main house where the Kitchen and Living Room probably are.


Please!!  That apartment used to be rented out.  It is more than a bedroom.  Try a bath and kitchenette.  Sheesh!

  lol...I thought Glenda didn't know Joran...she seems to know his room quite well, lmao.

[Observer]

For Glenda and those at RU

There have been posting about Joran's apt:
        

plhtx1 wrote:


LOL. Only 17 with his own apartment and able to come and go as he pleased. Not much adult supervision, but he was only "17"




Glenda  PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:21 pm

Joran did not live in Appartment. In most of the homes in Aruba, the rooms are not connected by walls, but rather walkways. Joran's room is within 15 feet to the Parent's room and their room (also not connected) is within 15 feet of the main house where the Kitchen and Living Room probably are.


Please!!  That apartment used to be rented out.  It is more than a bedroom.  Try a bath and kitchenette.  Sheesh!

  lol...I thought Glenda didn't know Joran...she seems to know his room quite well, lmao.

Hmmmm.........

[mrs. red]

Keep the faith monkeys... keep standing with the girl

[Nut44x4]

mmmmmmm......must be an underground hallway 

[Buckeye]

From Joran's book:

Page 166, Joran statement June 16.
June 16, at 8:50 pm I am asked to further clarify a remark I made to
the Judge-Commissaris. I had said earlier that I had done something wrong
and that I was willing to give a statement about that:
What I meant when I spoke with the Judge-Commissaris, is that I made a
mistake by leaving Natalee alone on the beach.
About what I spoke for 8 minutes with Deepak on May 30 2005 at 2:26 am
while using my mobile phone I tell you that I cannot remember.


Hmmmmm....what did he really say to the judge earlier??  Before clearing it with his dad???

Something that made the FBI tell the family that Natalee was dead??  and he can't remember the 8 min phone call to Deepak??? hmmmm....

[crazybabyborg]

If the picture of the Sloot home is labled correctly, the distance between Joran's apt. and his parent's room is more than 15 feet. The pool's more than 15 feet and it lies between the two. Glenda's FOS, again.

[Buckeye]

mmmmmmm......must be an underground hallway 

 

[WhiskeyGirl]

For Glenda and those at RU

There have been posting about Joran's apt:

plhtx1 wrote:

LOL. Only 17 with his own apartment and able to come and go as he pleased. Not much adult supervision, but he was only "17"


Glenda  PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:21 pm

Joran did not live in Appartment. In most of the homes in Aruba, the rooms are not connected by walls, but rather walkways. Joran's room is within 15 feet to the Parent's room and their room (also not connected) is within 15 feet of the main house where the Kitchen and Living Room probably are.


Please!!  That apartment used to be rented out.  It is more than a bedroom.  Try a bath and kitchenette.  Sheesh!

I notice the word "probably" in the above.

Also, in Joran's book, didn't he note that they had a small home that was added onto?  Where did everyone sleep before they added those two additional buildings?

[klaasend]

If the picture of the Sloot home is labled correctly, the distance between Joran's apt. and his parent's room is more than 15 feet. The pool's more than 15 feet and it lies between the two. Glenda's FOS, again.

FOS is her middle name:  Julia FOS Renfro 

[JE]

From Joran's book:

Page 166, Joran statement June 16.
June 16, at 8:50 pm I am asked to further clarify a remark I made to
the Judge-Commissaris. I had said earlier that I had done something wrong
and that I was willing to give a statement about that:
What I meant when I spoke with the Judge-Commissaris, is that I made a
mistake by leaving Natalee alone on the beach.
About what I spoke for 8 minutes with Deepak on May 30 2005 at 2:26 am
while using my mobile phone I tell you that I cannot remember.


Hmmmmm....what did he really say to the judge earlier??  Before clearing it with his dad???

Something that made the FBI tell the family that Natalee was dead??  and he can't remember the 8 min phone call to Deepak??? hmmmm....

He did something wrong leaving her at the beach?
I think in one of the pv's when he was picked up by satish or deepak it said something like: F##k that B$$$$h lets go
dont sound like feeling bad about doing something wrong to me

[Buckeye]

Joran's book page3 per Ramm at BFN:

- both parents working, took on a jamaican housekeeper to live on-site (in appartment) as babysitter and housekeeper, name Lisa. She was a sweet babysitter and good cook but crappy cleaner so Anita did a lot of the cleaning as she thought the good babysitter function was more important

- when they got older, no need for live in housekeeper/babysitter so apartment rented out to mostly interns. One guy lived there, ran up a big rent debt and was kicked out. Still needs to pay, PVDS believes one day he will pay out of the "goodness of his heart", JVDS and brother ridicule his dad for that belief. Then it stood empty for some time

[Buckeye]

From Joran's book:

Page 166, Joran statement June 16.
June 16, at 8:50 pm I am asked to further clarify a remark I made to
the Judge-Commissaris. I had said earlier that I had done something wrong
and that I was willing to give a statement about that:
What I meant when I spoke with the Judge-Commissaris, is that I made a
mistake by leaving Natalee alone on the beach.
About what I spoke for 8 minutes with Deepak on May 30 2005 at 2:26 am
while using my mobile phone I tell you that I cannot remember.


Hmmmmm....what did he really say to the judge earlier??  Before clearing it with his dad???

Something that made the FBI tell the family that Natalee was dead??  and he can't remember the 8 min phone call to Deepak??? hmmmm....

He did something wrong leaving her at the beach?
I think in one of the pv's when he was picked up by satish or deepak it said something like: F##k that B$$$$h lets go
dont sound like feeling bad about doing something wrong to me

Yes, he needed to clarify.....change?...retract???...a previous statement to the judge about doing something wrong??

How many statements did he actually give to a judge??  Isn't there some issue if you lie to a judge??  I know it's ok to lie to the police, but is it ok to lie to a judge??   

[caesu]

This is very long, but since we are slow and since caesu might like this site, I will post.

This is from korps suriname site quoting Amigoe, in April 2005 (before Natalee).  Seems Rudy Croes was upset with VanderStraten because he arrested someone without Rudy giving the ok.  Does the Minister of Justice order or ok prosecutions, on a routine basis??

Controverse over commissaris Van der Straten
 
ORANJESTAD — Minister van Justitie Rudy Croes (MEP) heeft een brief geschreven aan de minister van Bestuurlijke Vernieuwing en Koninkrijksrelaties, Alexander Pechtold (D66), waarin hij zijn beklag doet over het optreden van politiecommissaris Jan van der Straten.
 
De reden moet worden gezocht in het arresteren van twee medewerkers van het Bureau Informatievoorziening en Documentatie (BID) op het bestuurskantoor. Pechtold heeft inmiddels gereageerd op de brief van Croes. Hij stelt dat Van der Straten een goede staat van dienst heeft en dat hij de commotie van Croes rondom de commissaris niet begrijpt.
 
De twee BID-medewerkers werden opgepakt wegens telefonische bedreigingen vanaf het telefoontoestel op hun werkplek. Eén van de twee is geen verdachte meer in deze zaak. Tegen de tweede persoon, K.J.K., loopt nog een strafrechtelijk onderzoek. Hij wordt verdacht van bedreiging. K. is voorlopig op vrije voeten gesteld. Het Openbaar Ministerie (OM) beslist binnenkort of het tot vervolging komt. Beide mannen werden opgepakt door het Flexiteam onder leiding van commissaris Van der Straten. Dit is de Justitie-minister in het verkeerde keelgat geschoten.
 
Brieven
 
De minister van Justitie stuurde daarom enige weken geleden een brief naar Pechtolds voorganger, minister Thom de Graaf van Bestuurlijke Vernieuwing en Koninkrijksrelaties, met daarin klachten over het optreden van Van der Straten. Volgens minister Croes is Van der Straten met de arrestatie van de twee BID-medewerkers buiten zijn boekje gegaan. Volgens de Justitie-minister had Van der Straten niet het mandaat van het OM om de twee te arresteren. Het OM geeft geen commentaar hierop.
 
Pechtold heeft de brief van Croes inmiddels beantwoord. Deze brief is afgelopen woensdag bij het ministerie van Justitie bezorgd. Minister-president Nelson Oduber ontving een afschrift. Volgens Victor Henriquez van het ministerie van Justitie schrijft Pechtold in deze brief dat Van der Straten een goede staat van dienst heeft. Ook schrijft Pechtold dat er nooit klachten waren over het functioneren van de commissaris en dat hij de huidige commotie niet begrijpt. Beide bewindslieden ontmoeten elkaar waarschijnlijk vandaag en morgen tijdens Pechtolds bezoek aan Aruba. Het onderwerp ‘Van der Straten’ zal zeker aan de orde komen bij dit overleg. Commissaris Van der Straten gaat overigens over twee maanden met pensioen.
 
Minister Croes heeft in de pers zijn boosheid geuit over het feit dat de Nederlandse Vertegenwoordiging zijn brief aan minister De Graaf heeft geopend en gelezen. De Nederlandse Vertegenwoordiging stelt echter dat dit een standaardprocedure is. Ronald de Kort van de Nederlandse Vertegenwoordiging: “Dit gebeurt met alle post die via ons naar het ministerie van Binnenlandse Zaken in Nederland wordt gestuurd. Wij vallen zelf immers ook onder dat ministerie en het is gebruikelijk dat de Nederlandse Vertegenwoordiging adviseert over dergelijke stukken.”
 
Van der Straten doet intussen gewoon zijn werk en ziet geen grond voor een reactie. Hij stelt dat hem geen brief is geschreven met commentaar op zijn functioneren, dus dat hem ook niet duidelijk is waarop hij zou moeten reageren.
 
Het is overigens niet de eerste keer dat Croes probeert Van der Straten weg te werken. In januari 2003 liepen de spanningen hoog op, toen minister Croes zonder opgaaf van redenen de commissaris zijn uitvoerende bevoegdheden ontnam. Enige tijd later kreeg hij die, ook weer zonder toelichting, terug. (Amigoe)

Translated:

Controverse on Commissioner Van der Straten
 

ORANJESTAD - Minister of Justice Rudy Croes (MEP) has written a letter to the Minister for Government Reform and Kingdom Relations, Alexander Pechtold (D66), in which he complains about the actions of Police Jan van der Straten.

 

The reason must be sought in the arrest of two employees of the Office of Information and Documentation (BID) on the bestuurskantoor. Pechtold has now responded to the letter of Croes. He suggested that Van der Straten a good track record and that he Croes of the commotion around the Commissioner does not understand.
 

The two BID employees were arrested because of telephone threats from the telephone in their workplace. One of the two is not a suspect in this case. Against the second person, KJK, runs a criminal investigation. He is suspected of threat. K. Has been provisionally set at liberty. The Public Attorney's Office (OM) will soon decide whether the prosecution. Both men were arrested by the Flexiteam led by Commissioner Van der Straten. This is the Justice Minister in the wrong keelgat shot.

 

Letters
 

The Minister for Justice, therefore, sent a letter several weeks ago to Pechtolds predecessor, Minister Thom de Graaf of Government Reform and Kingdom Relations, which includes complaints about the actions of Van der Straten. According to Minister Croes, Van der Straten with the arrest of the two BID employees outside his booklet gone. According to the Justice Minister had Van der Straten not the mandate of the OM every two to arrest. The OM does not comment on it.
 

Pechtold's letter Croes has been answered. This letter was last Wednesday at the Ministry of Justice delivered. Prime Minister Nelson Oduber received a copy. According to Victor Henriquez of the Ministry of Justice Pechtold writes in this letter that Van der Straten a good track record. Pechtold also writes that there were never complaints about the functioning of the Commissioner and that he does not understand the current commotion. Both leaders will meet today and probably tomorrow Pechtolds visit to Aruba. The issue of Van der Straten 'will certainly be addressed in these consultations. Commissioner Van der Straten goes about two months with retirement.
 

Minister Croes has in the press expressed his anger over the fact that the Dutch Representation his letter to Minister De Graaf has opened and read. The Dutch Representation argues, however, that this is a standard practice. Ronald de Kort of the Dutch Representation: "This happens with all correspondence received by us to the Ministry of Home Affairs in the Netherlands. We are themselves also under the same ministry, and it is customary for the Dutch Representation advises on such documents. "
 

Van der Straten meanwhile simply does his work and sees no basis for a response. He argues that his letter was not written comments on its operation, so that it is not clear where he would have to respond.
 
It is not the first time that Croes tries Van der Straten eliminated. In January 2003, tensions ran high when Croes minister without giving reasons Commissioner deprived his executive powers. Some time later he received which, again without explanation, back. (Amigoe)


http://tinyurl.com/3xfto8

thanks, interesting.
that's another instance in which Rudy Croes gets too much involved with the OM.

no surprise that Hans Mos is denying that there is pressure from Rudy Croes isn't prosecuting the AVP politicians.
(i think Rudy Croes wanted Mos to say that)

[JE]

From Joran's book:

Page 166, Joran statement June 16.
June 16, at 8:50 pm I am asked to further clarify a remark I made to
the Judge-Commissaris. I had said earlier that I had done something wrong
and that I was willing to give a statement about that:
What I meant when I spoke with the Judge-Commissaris, is that I made a
mistake by leaving Natalee alone on the beach.

Is that really from his book? hard to believe he can remeber that and not the 8 min conversation with Deepak or the shoes he wore?