Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 - 3/19/08

[klaasend]

We have had some server problems this evening.  It's not your PC it's the server.  Hopefully the problems will not continue and have now been resolved.

[texasmom]

Klaas, you have hotmail from me, I was worried!  Please disregard!

   Hi everyone!

[oceanexploration]

SNIPPING a quote from Janet:
Also the dive was on December 30, 2007.  Why did Aruba not immediately send the fabric to the FBI for forensic testing?  Why did Aruba wait unti January 22, 2008?
----------

- We were told by Richardson that he personally immediately sent the samples to the FBI for forensic analysis.
- I was suprised to hear the Jan-22nd date.  To me there are two weeks missing there.

[wreck]

We have had some server problems this evening.  It's not your PC it's the server.  Hopefully the problems will not continue and have now been resolved.

Just when it was getting interesting!!!

Just a word about OE's posts today -- I think he was simply telling us that we shouldn't just disregard the trap and it's contents. I think he made the "vague" posts about "DNA" and "human remains" just to "distance" just a tad. MOO

[wreck]

  Oh, Hi OE!!!! 

[Observer]

SNIPPING a quote from Janet:
Also the dive was on December 30, 2007.  Why did Aruba not immediately send the fabric to the FBI for forensic testing?  Why did Aruba wait unti January 22, 2008?
----------

- We were told by Richardson that he personally immediately sent the samples to the FBI for forensic analysis.
- I was suprised to hear the Jan-22nd date.  To me there are two weeks missing there.

Hello OE 
Adolpho (Dolfi) Richardson?

[texasmom]

We have had some server problems this evening.  It's not your PC it's the server.  Hopefully the problems will not continue and have now been resolved.

I took a nap since we were having terrible thunderstorms, woke up, and couldn't get in.  Resorted to going to the darkside to see if they had said anything about the forum being down, apparently they hadn't figured it out yet.  But I feel slimy.... Glenda Julia put a youtube promotion on over there that her "baby" is in.  I'm assuming it's a "come to Aruba" thing, some were commenting on how they couldn't wait to go.  Crazy people!
  

[oceanexploration]

SNIPPING a quote from Janet:
Also the dive was on December 30, 2007.  Why did Aruba not immediately send the fabric to the FBI for forensic testing?  Why did Aruba wait unti January 22, 2008?
----------

- We were told by Richardson that he personally immediately sent the samples to the FBI for forensic analysis.
- I was suprised to hear the Jan-22nd date.  To me there are two weeks missing there.

Hello OE 
Adolpho (Dolfi) Richardson?

Yes.

[Blue Moon]

SNIPPING a quote from Janet:
Also the dive was on December 30, 2007.  Why did Aruba not immediately send the fabric to the FBI for forensic testing?  Why did Aruba wait unti January 22, 2008?
----------

- We were told by Richardson that he personally immediately sent the samples to the FBI for forensic analysis.
- I was suprised to hear the Jan-22nd date.  To me there are two weeks missing there.

This is very disturbing to me.  If the dive took place Dec. 30 and the samples sent Jan. 22 THAT is 3 weeks wait time.  I asked earlier if the cage and contents were checked before you left to see if it was still intact? My guess is that Dutch ship retrieved whatever was there.  I remember Capslock telling us the ship was in Aruba about that time. I thought then it was something to do with the Persistence and that was about the time you said it is starting to get interesting.

[ala_gunslinger]

We have had some server problems this evening.  It's not your PC it's the server.  Hopefully the problems will not continue and have now been resolved.

OK, you don't know how close I was to yankin that xbox off of my network!

[texasmom]

SNIPPING a quote from Janet:
Also the dive was on December 30, 2007.  Why did Aruba not immediately send the fabric to the FBI for forensic testing?  Why did Aruba wait unti January 22, 2008?
----------

- We were told by Richardson that he personally immediately sent the samples to the FBI for forensic analysis.
- I was suprised to hear the Jan-22nd date.  To me there are two weeks missing there.

I would really like to know what took so long!  I'm trying to not be skeptical of those in charge but this just sounds so much like "more of the same" bs that we've seen all along.

And Kyle, some of your posts from today have been carried over to the darkside for discussion.  Believe me you're in the right place, right here!  We truly appreciate you!
 

[texasmom]

We have had some server problems this evening.  It's not your PC it's the server.  Hopefully the problems will not continue and have now been resolved.

OK, you don't know how close I was to yankin that xbox off of my network!

[oceanexploration]

Oh, Hi OE!!!! 

Hello Wreck. 

The disclaimer is vital because I am not an official source of infomation, nor am I peer reviewed. A lot of what I share is what I was directly involved in.  However, much of what I share is 2nd and 3rd hand, but the closest we've got in some cases, hence the saltshaker should be used liberally. This is afterall an internet discussion forum and so I believe it's suitable material for discussion to see if rattling around in the monkey cage can connect some dots.  And you're correct, I personally do not feel we should disregard the trap or it's contents until we know how that trap got there and what the nature of its contents were IMO.

[Tamikosmom]

From oceanexploraton:

As of the 2nd week of Feb, this is what I had learned from the FBI:

The contents of the trap were being actively investigated.  The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample.  Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case.  The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle also mentions a Dutch "recovery" boat in the area of the trap site.

Human remains were found, but a thumbs down sign was given by the divers.

Following the December 30, 2007 dive ... the Persistence diver ... Tim Trahan ... is videotaped returning to the vessel and revealing  there was nothing in the trap/cage.  Why did Tim Trahan deny that there were human remains?  Tim Miller was so sure that the images taken by the ROV on December 29, 2007 prior to the dive revealed a skull and ... Kyle affirms that there were human remains in the cage/trap.  See Youtube - Part 4.

I am so confused.

Janet

+++++++++++++++


DATELINE - FEBRUARY 22, 2008

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qPcVNZOp4tI&feature=related
Part 1

http://youtube.com/watch?v=D-uzUb1SxKA&feature=related
Part 2

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WkQ10zKh4S0&feature=related
Part 3

http://youtube.com/watch?v=z5B0t2cyGzs&feature=related
Part 4


LINK: IMAGES OF TRAP/CAGE AND CONTENTS LOCATED BY THE PERSISTENCE
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2641.480


Tim Miller/Dave Holloway
NBC DATELINE
February 22, 2008

And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.
 
Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.

Chris Hansen: So, you're thinking-- you're thinking at this point--
Tim Miller: I’m thinking at this point, "Oh, my God, maybe we've got something. Maybe we've got something."

Could they have found her? Or was hope, perhaps, making them see what they wanted to see?

(on the boat)

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains.  I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.

<snipped>

Dave Holloway: He (Miller) told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."

Chris Hansen: "We found her?"
 
Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure." He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--" he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta -- that -- that's it."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


Tim Miller/Tim Trahan
NBC DATELINE
February 22, 2008

On Dec. 30, off the coast of Aruba, divers from the Aruban police force and the research vessel Persistence were about to make a crucial dive on a promising target in the search for Natalee Holloway.

<snipped>

(On the boat) Tim Miller: Divers coming up right now. I don't know it looked as promising today as it did last night or before.

Miller: Nothing?

Trahan: No.

Chris Hansen: That had to be a crushing blow.

Tim Miller: It was a crushing blow.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

[Blue Moon]

Oh, Hi OE!!!! 

Hello Wreck. 

The disclaimer is vital because I am not an official source of infomation, nor am I peer reviewed. A lot of what I share is what I was directly involved in.  However, much of what I share is 2nd and 3rd hand, but the closest we've got in some cases, hence the saltshaker should be used liberally. This is afterall an internet discussion forum and so I believe it's suitable material for discussion to see if rattling around in the monkey cage can connect some dots.  And you're correct, I personally do not feel we should disregard the trap or it's contents until we know how that trap got there and what the nature of its contents were IMO.

I am assuming that Beth and Dave are having this same discussion with the FBI?  I am also assuming the FBI are more forthcoming to them.  Would the FBI not have been called in to view the trap?  I do understand you were in Aruba's waters and this is how it had to play out but I would hope that the FBI or some other U.S. agency was involved.

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle ... why did the crew of the Persistence not retrieve the cage/trap?  I apologize if this has already been discussed.

Janet

[AZSunny]

OE if you are still here, on what date did the dive take place when they physically removed the contents of the cage.  I am remembering Jan 7th, but perhaps I am wrong. 

[Buckeye]

OE

Don't know if you can answer, but who exactly told you this (or at least what nationality were they)?

-When I returned to the Persistence (14-Jan) there were no more talks about a trap recovery.  When I pressed the issue, I was told "they're no longer interested in the trap or it's recovery".

-I raised the issue again in early February and the response was the same - no interest about the trap and no plans to recover.


Did you get an actual visual, of the trap, anytime after Jan 12th??

[ala_gunslinger]

We have had some server problems this evening.  It's not your PC it's the server.  Hopefully the problems will not continue and have now been resolved.

OK, you don't know how close I was to yankin that xbox off of my network!

You know what I mean!!!

I don't mind them on the network, It's when they play it on my big ass plasma that pisses me off!

[Spock]

Oh, Hi OE!!!! 

Hello Wreck. 

The disclaimer is vital because I am not an official source of infomation, nor am I peer reviewed. A lot of what I share is what I was directly involved in.  However, much of what I share is 2nd and 3rd hand, but the closest we've got in some cases, hence the saltshaker should be used liberally. This is afterall an internet discussion forum and so I believe it's suitable material for discussion to see if rattling around in the monkey cage can connect some dots.  And you're correct, I personally do not feel we should disregard the trap or it's contents until we know how that trap got there and what the nature of its contents were IMO.

I am assuming that Beth and Dave are having this same discussion with the FBI?  I am also assuming the FBI are more forthcoming to them.  Would the FBI not have been called in to view the trap?  I do understand you were in Aruba's waters and this is how it had to play out but I would hope that the FBI or some other U.S. agency was involved.

Alright, I get it. They found remains, it wasn't Natalee, and the Dutch want it all hushed up to protect tourism. Can't have another unexplained death on the island.