"Is Race the Issue?"

[LouiseVargas]

The big question on the horizon is "Is race the question?" Now that it is 2008, I would have thought we reached a point of civilization wherein racism was in the past. Apparently not.

I think people feel they would be stigmatized if they came right out and said ... I don't want no "&$%^&*()#$%"  running the country. It is no longer acceptable to denigrate a person because of his race ... as in Barack Obama. It is illegal to discriminate and 100 other things.

So they found another way. Instead of saying Obama is black, they say he is Muslim. There is a lot of baggage associated with electing a Muslim. And people are more skeered of a Muslim than a black American.

[LouiseVargas]

Please respond only if you can discuss this matter seriously and without personal rancor and anger. 

[Dihannah1]

Hi LV,  I hope this helps you see my views and that I am not a racist.

Racist came into play, when Obama's church was brought in to the spotlight, though I have always had an issue with his church's vision statement..  It's in itself racist and got worse when the pastor's remarks came out, which I fund EXTREMLEY"  racist and quite frankly scary.   I just cannot believe as a parishioner of that church for 20 yrs., he had no idea of the pastor's radical and treasonous beliefs and comments of our country.

It's not about a black man to me, it's what the candidate brings to the table, outside of his comments of "Hope and Chang", which, I've still yet to see the meat of his objectives or plans.  This whole church deal, which most of us have know about for a year, has finally been brought out to the public.  Only, it's worse than I thought!

Now as for a black President, I would vote for General Schwartzkopf in a heartbeat!  He seems a man of true integrity and somebody with a lot of experience, very intelligent ).  Even he, backed out of Bush's cabinet, when he disagreed with the administration/pentagon's tactics.  He's a man of his word of great integrity, experience and a true American!

Though, I personally would never have voted for Obama, it had nothing to do this his race.  It goes far deeper than that.
Personally,  I do NOT like any of our options at this stage and it is not going to change.  Obama, Hillary and McCain.  So I'm extremely disheartened by this entire election!

MY Personal Opinion?  Nothing to do with the color of his skin, it's what he stands for, or lack there of.  ANYBODY can use his words "Hope" and "Change", but how will this be accomplished.   His former pastor just so happened to dig his grave as far as "Uniting this country.   

[Dihannah1]

OH MY!   I apologize!   I did not  use spellcheck and my post is horrendous.  I hope I got my point across with all those typos!

[crazybabyborg]

OH MY!   I apologize!   I did not use spellcheck and my post is horrendous.  I hope I got my point across with all those typos!

As a "spell check" dependent, I fixed it for you, Dihannah! 

I think we all relate issues best to our own point of view and experience, and I can honestly say that whatever influence the "traditional" race issue has by the voting public is minimal. By that, I mean that of course there will always be the "remnant" of white Americans who hang on ignorantly to deep seeded prejudice, but I don't think their numbers are high enough to impact the outcome of a general election.

Nontraditional race issues seem to be having a major impact on the Obama campaign, at this point anyway. I, for one, do not agree politically with Obama's positions, which seem to me to be defined by Hillary Clinton and delivered far more compellingly by Obama. I do, however, wish that a candidate who was more closely aligned to my political beliefs, could be as inspirational as Obama. I believe that quality was the source of his campaign's success. His pastor's rants are the epitome of racism, hatred, divisiveness, and shocking to many supporters of Obama's candidacy. It remains to be seen if Rev. Wright will be the catalyst for Obama's free fall from frontrunner position. The question, in my mind is: Should it?

It's a rhetorical question, but I will give my 2 cents, for whatever it's worth. What church I attend is very personal for me. It's purely my choice where or if I attend at all. My church is where I choose to donate my money without being compelled to do so, where I choose to fellowship with others of kindred spirits and faith, and where I choose to set aside my time to block out this world and humbly open my heart to God. It's a restoration of the wear and tear that beat against God's peace throughout the week, and it's where I'm reminded of the principles of love, mercy, and directions that God gave us all to walk in a world that is not our home.

My church is where I took my newborn to pledge to raise him in a Christian home, and publically ask my church family to help me support that pledge. My church is where I joined with a man in a Holy Sacrament and asked God to Bless the union. My church is where I chose to lay my Mother, Father, Brother, and Grandmother for the last time in my life and leaned on my pastor to help me say goodbye.

My church is where I've invested time to teach and reach out to the broader community, whether it be victims of Katrina, Vacation Bible School, or local homeless and hungry people, because God's love cannot be contained within walls. I am taught and teach the Bible in my church and stand by the guidance found there that our most effective witness is our own heart displayed to others, and that others shouldn't see us, but Christ within us.

Having said this, I must also say that I have left a church that felt more like home than any place on Earth to me and that I had been a member of for 30 years. I left after a stance the new pastor took that overrode the spirit of "the law" for the letter of it. It broke my heart, and there were many tears and much anguish as I searched my heart for the decision. But in the end, I lifted the bar of truth, given to me in God's word, and put the pastor's stance to measure, and found it fell short.

Because the public hasn't just heard a reporter relay the hate-mongering rantings of Rev. Wright, but seen and heard the tenor, tone, and flavor of his "sermons", we are able to evaluate his incendiary remarks without influence. I, and others, are left to ponder the character of a man who has chosen to have a steady diet of such a spirit for 20 years. We can evaluate the parishioners, who don't seem shocked by the content or delivery of his remarks, and we can conclude that what we are witnessing is not an anomaly.

Very early in the Obama campaign, I saw coverage of an Obama speech given to a group of pastors of Black churches; I believe it was a particular conference but don't remember the name. I was shocked at the time. The Obama speaking there was very different from the Obama I had been impressed with when he was addressing a crowd of mixed race supporters. Although he did not use the word "whitey", that word encompasses the focus of his message. He, like his pastor, was fostering reverse racism, promoting the concept of entitlement by virtue of race, and crippling his audience with the message of inevitable victimization.

This is a very long answer to a very simple question. Ultimately, my answer would be "yes"; race is playing a role in the primary race. It has been put into play by Obama himself and his own choices and perhaps his own heart.

MOO

[LouiseVargas]

His pastor's rants are the epitome of racism, hatred, divisiveness, and shocking to many supporters of Obama's candidacy. It remains to be seen if Rev. Wright will be the catalyst for Obama's free fall from frontrunner position. The question, in my mind is: Should it? This is a very long answer to a very simple question. Ultimately, my answer would be "yes"; race is playing a role in the primary race. It has been put into play by Obama himself and his own choices and perhaps his own heart.

Dear CBB,

Thank you for taking the time to write an excellent post. You summed up my feelings too.

I have some brief comments.

Freedom of religion does not apply to presidents.

Mrs.red told me about the speech in the black church.

I think Obama has run the best campaign I've ever seen. He is very smart and has tons of advisors. He knows he has to be squeaky clean. So what exactly happened that his association with his church was overlooked in terms of being squeaky clean? What were they thinking? I can't believe they could overlook it. They still have my phone number and email address from the rally I attended in February 2007.

Additionally, I want to mention that all religions have their own traditions. The church leaders wear costumes. The Vatican men dress up in really fancy red, fushia and orange costumes. No women are allowed. They speak in Latin. Jews dress up also, in black suits and fedoras. Long beards and earlocks and prayer shawls. In the synagogue, men are separated from women and it's all in Hebrew. Reverend Wright was dressed up in typical African priest's garb. Of course what he said was despicable, maybe all black churches rail against what Whitey did to them. Jews still rail against their past oppression.

I don't like what I'm seeing with Obama's church. It looks to me that the Reverend Wright is scaring people half to death. I would hate to see Obama brought down by his church.

Just my two cents. 

[SteveDinMD]

Does anyone actually believe that Barack Obama is a religious man, let alone a Christian? His (absentee) father was a muslim. As for his mother, who raised him alone, Obama not long ago spoke about choosing the “faith of [his] mother,” but by most accounts his mother was an atheist, or at least an agnostic. It seems unlikely that Obama would come to any religious faith, let alone Christianity, given his upbringing.

People who knew Obama when he first came to Chicago depict his religious affiliation as a matter of political expediency. New in town, he was hoping to pursue a political career there, and tirelessly worked to introduce himself to the voters in various political and community settings. Much to his dismay, when introduced to someone, the first question that person almost always asked him was, “What church do you attend?” This surprised Obama given that he was raised outside of organized religion and educated in the liberal, atheist tradition. The political life of black America, however, centered around the church. If he was to represent that community, he first had to become a visible member of it.

It was against this political backdrop that Obama chose to join the congregation at the Trinity United Church of Christ. He specificly selected Trinity because it was among the largest (if not THE largest) and best known black churches in the City of Chicago. It was also, perhaps, the most politically active. Once a member in good standing, Obama would have a built-in constituency and have instant “street cred” within the wider black community. His connections to Trinity United, and Jeremiah Wright in particular, served Obama well in his Illinois political career, but things are very different now. 10 years ago, Obama was a typical “black politician,” and happily successful in that role. Obama smilingly listened to Jeremiah Wright spew hatred for 20 years becuase it furthered his local political ambitions. He couldn’t have imagined the present day, when he would be a leading candidate for President of the United States. To win the office he now seeks, he needs to represent ALL the people, not just some small, radical segment, and his political origins at Trinity United could well be his undoing in that regard.

If not for Trinity United and its black racism, Obama would not have had a political career and would not now be contesting for the Presidency.  Ironically, it is his association with that same church that now threatens to derail his Presidential campaign.  Frankly, I can't see any easy way for Obama to extricate himself from this trap of his own making.  He can't continue to embrace Trinity United and Mr. Wright without alienating many white votes, support from whom he desperately needs if he's to win the Presidency.  Neither can he disown Wright and Trinity United without alienating many black voters, support from whom he needs in order to secure the Democrat nomination.  Neither can he can simply admit the truth: that he's really an atheist and for 20 years played the black community for fools to further his personal ambitions.  That would probably alienate just about everyone. 

[Auntiem]

  Is Race the Issue???  I believe that depends on what Race you are!  IMO it is members of the African American Race who are the guilty ones here. I work in a mult-ethnic area, mostly white and African American. I have not spoken to one member of the latter who is NOT totally mesmerized by Obama, while the white people are fairly equally split between the two Democratic candidates.  It's reminisent of the  OJ trial, when I found the same bias.  That is scary and unfortunate to think how color-blinded African Americans have chosen to be, at a time when White children are being educated to look beyond color.

      Many cities have Black mayors...NY has had a black mayor and now a Black Governor....   I agree with the poster who said she/he would vote for who she felt was a qualified Black candidate.  Nominate Colin Powell or Condolezza Rice, and I would vote for them in a heartbeat, no matter what ticket they were running on.

     My suspicions about Obama have been confirmed after hearing the Clergy man he has chosen to listen to on a weekly basis for twenty years.  The reverand Wright is a racist of the worst kind.....he spews hatred of not only "whitey", but Jews and Americans (what does he consider himself?), from his pulpit.
     
     Obama, must certainly share the opinions and hatreds of this man, as he has not only chosen to worship at his church for two decades, but to bring his children there to be indoctrinated with this ideology at an early age!!

    For any American, be they Black or White, to consider Barak Obama a good candidate for President of the United States of America, which includes people of many cultures, colors and religions, IMO, is a very SAD thing. In no way does this candidate represent the Constitution of the United States.

[Tylergal]

End the Drama, Stop Obama.

Racist?  No, not at all.  Hoping that Bobby Jindal will run with McCain. 

[Kermit]

Obama is not a Muslim. His father is. Obama grew up with his white mother. I posted I think a page from the interview long ago. Guess no one wants to read it.

[LouiseVargas]

Ty,

Obama is as racist as your roses are.

[Tamikosmom]

Barack Obama's opportunity to distance himself from the anti-white, anti-Jew and black-supremist theology of Nation of Islam Minister Louis Farrakhan .... was on November 2, 2007.  That is the date when Obama's long-time pastor/friend Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr bestowed a "lifetime achievement" upon Farrakhan.

Barack Obama's opportunity to refute the anti-white and black-supremist theology of his pastor/friend Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. would have been sometime in their 20 year relationship.

Barack Obama did not speak out until challenged while striving for the leadership of the Democratic Party  ... a position which could ultimately lead to him being elected President of the United States of America.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

The issue is that Obama ... who may very well be the next President of the United States of America.  This man never challenged Jeremiah Wright's theology as he sat in the pews of Trinity United for twenty years.

Jeremiah Wright was bestowed the honor by Obama of officiating at his marriage ... the most memorable day of his life and ... officiating at the baptism of his two precious children.

Obama supported the furthering of Wright's agenda in annual contributions of $27,000 ... the largest annual donation by far that Obama donated to any charity.  Logic dictates that a $27,000 donation is an informed action.

Louise ... the concern many have inregards to Obama is not his race ... it is his close association to those who possess a racist ideology.

Janet

+++++++++++

Barack Obama's Pastor his Christianity Jeremiah Wright
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUbUBTlmAiA&feature=related


BARACK OBAMA Pastor ANTI-AMERICAN Rev Jeremiah Wright Racism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwQWuQVE6sw&feature=related


Barack Obama Pastor Jeremiah Wright NEW TAPES!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc2FCJ7zWEQ&feature=related

[Dihannah1]

Just a few quotes from his book.  Does answer the question here?
From Dreams of My Father:  "I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites."

From Dreams of My Father :  "I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mothers race."

From Dreams of My Father: "There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white."

From Dreams of My Father:  ; "It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names."


From Dreams of My Father:  "I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela."

From Audacity of Hope:  "I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

[Tamikosmom]

Just a few quotes from his book.  Does answer the question here?
From Dreams of My Father:  "I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites."

From Dreams of My Father :  "I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mothers race."

From Dreams of My Father: "There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white."

From Dreams of My Father:  ; "It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names."


From Dreams of My Father:  "I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela."

From Audacity of Hope:  "I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

 

This needs to be exposed!!!  I believe that this wolf in sheep clothing may very well be the next President of the United States of America.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

 

[Tamikosmom]

Barack Obama

Dreams of my Father:  "I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites."


Does one person think that McCain or Clinton would be a Presidential candidate for the United States of America tomorrow if today they stated the following words:

"I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to blacks."

[Tamikosmom]

DREAMS OF MY FATHER - BRACK OBAMA

"I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race."

"I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites."

"Any distinction between good and bad whites held negligible meaning."

"Desperate times called for desperate measures, and for many blacks, times were chronically desperate. If nationalism could create a strong and effective insularity, deliver on its promise of self-respect, then the hurt it might cause well-meaning whites, or the inner turmoil it caused people like me, would be of little consequence."

"To avoid being mistaken for a racial sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets. We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night, in the dorms, we discussed neocolonialism, Franz Fanon, Eurocentrism, and patriarchy."

"there was something about him that made me wary,” Obama wrote. “A little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.”

"That hate hadn't gone away, white people, some cruel, some ignorant, sometimes a single face, sometimes just a faceless image of a system claiming power over our lives"

"There were enough of us on campus to constitute a tribe, and when it came to hanging out, many of us chose to function like a tribe, staying close together, traveling in packs. . . It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names"

"the reason black people keep to themselves is that it's easier than spending all your time mad, or trying to guess whatever it was that white folks were thinking about you."

One line in Malcolm X's autobiography "spoke" to Obama "it stayed with me," he says. "He spoke of a wish he'd once had, the wish that the white blood that ran through him, there by an act of violence, might somehow be expunged."

"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

"I Studied the Koran."

[Tamikosmom]

Di ... the following are Barack Obama words ... not Jeremiah Wright's word.  I thought I would clarify ... there is no difference between Obama and Wright's anti-white ideology.

Janet

+++++++

Dreams of my Father:  "The person who made me proudest of all, though, was [half brother] Roy .. He converted to Islam."

Dreams of my Father:  "In Indonesia, I had spent two years at a Muslim school" "I studied the Koran.."

Audacity of Hope: "Lolo (Obama's step father) followed a brand of Islam ...."  "I looked to Lolo for guidance".

Audacity Of Hope:  "I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

Dreams of My Father: "I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race".

Dreams of my Father:  "The emotion between the races could never be pure..... the other race would always remain just that: menacing, alien, and apart."

Dreams of My Father:  "I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites"

Dreams Of My Father:  "I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa, that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself..".

Dreams Of My Father: "That hate hadn't gone away," he wrote, blaming "white people — some cruel, some ignorant, sometimes a single face, sometimes just a faceless image of a system claiming power over our lives."

Dreams Of My Father:  "There were enough of us on campus to constitute a tribe, and when it came to hanging out many of us chose to function like a tribe, staying close together, traveling in packs," he wrote. "It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names"

[Tamikosmom]

Dihannah ... thank you for revealing the words written by Obama in his books.  I had no idea.

I cannot comprehend why Obama's true colors ... his true ideology is not front page headlines in the major publication throughout the United States.  Also the television networks are not milking this revelation for all its worth.  WHY??  There appears to be a major media conspiracy that is allowing the American people to be deceived in regards to this wolf in sheeps clothing.

The other candidates would not be spared from media crucification if they utter the same words in reverse yet ... Obama is given a free pass.  I would call that racism in the first degree!

Janet