Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 - 3/25/08

[Observer]

I thought he was renamed to formal suspect status after the tape.   

He was re-named a suspect and they said they were re-opening the case with 24 Detectives..Bla Bla Bla ..But maybe they didn't put any restrictions on him like after the first arrest?

[nuntukamen]

well, the rearrest appears to have stemmed from an article on the previous arrest published this morning in, but nothing about a new arrest


and this arrest, if substantiated, may have nothing to do with natalee...the guy is on drugs, after all, and has advertised that fact like it was swiss cheese and not illegal substances he was defining as his habit of choice

[Tamikosmom]

If wonder slut is in Germany - it's going to have to involve Interpol. No way around that unless he would surrender voluntarily.

Would that be true if he was renamed a suspect? Would there have been an agreement to permit travel?

Hi Buckeye, he has not been convicted of a crime and not even charged unless you BELIEVE Jansen. So, he's Germany's problem apparently. He can go where he chooses. I don't see anything to prohibit his travel... unless it's to the US where we (US Authorities) apparently know something else about him.

As Spock would say - he's been released from formal suspect status and can not be harassed or questioned. He's free pending new evidence.

Rob ... on February 15, 2008 ... the statement from the Prosecutor's Office stated that Joran van der Sloot was declared the "prime" suspect in the the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet

++++++++++++++++++++

February 15, 2008
Court of Appeal upholds lower judge’s decision not to detain J.v.d.S.
J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues

The Court of Appeal announced by the end of yesterday, February 14th, 2008, its decision to uphold the refusal by the investigating judge to order pre-trial detention of J.v.d.S. in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The Office of the Public Prosecutor had requested such an order after the “Peter R de Vries-tapes” had been received by the Office and had been evaluated. Last week the Office appealed the ruling of refusal by the judge.

The reasons underlying the Court’s decision are the following. The Court has seen the visual materials, has listened to the audio materials and has inspected the verbatim reports. Based on that, the Court is of the opinion that there is a lack of sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspect’s involvement in the crimes for which he is being held responsible by the prosecution. The Court will generally be a bit more hesitant when it has to decide on a new request for pre-trial detention of a suspect, when that same suspect has been detained repeatedly before and there has been a considerable lapse of time.

J.v.d.S. has given extensive and detailed statements in Patrick van der Eem’s car, the undercover citizen who worked for Peter R. de Vries, on what happened during the night of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Nevertheless the Court sees various reasons not to accept the serious grounds of suspicion which are statutorily required for pre-trial detention. One of them is the history of contradictory statements by J.v.d.S., which were belied repeatedly by objective findings.

At this moment those parts of the statements made in Van der Eem’s car which contain new elements are not being underpinned by objective findings. Considering the possibility of a serious personality disorder – as voiced by the prosecution – combined with a personal history of untrue statements and remarks, which even according to the suspect himself are frequently false, the Court of Appeal has reasons for doubt regarding the incriminating character of the “car-statements.”

On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.

At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not/

[hotping]

Hello everyone. I came home to get some tools and I couldn't resist checking in and seeing whats up. I hope that is true about Joran, but I am with you in that I'll reserve my elation for later, when it is verified:)

I do have a favor to ask anyone who happens to be on at the same time as Kyle. I am curious what the circumstances were surrounding his leave from the boat he described during which the Dutch ship came close to the trap location. Was it scheduled, expected, normal, or out of the blue?

I was reading about Steve Croes and everyones investigation of him, and I noticed his age, and I wonder if he and Lorenzo are friends since they are the same age about. Anyway, I'll be back and keep up the good work. Everybody better behave because I heard Klaas has an internet electric keyboard shocker installed now, and if you don't mind, she can direct a electric charge from her machine to the offendings keyboard:) Don't make her use it:)

Thanks for the warning PI, I'm on "best behavior", if a certain cryptic poster signs on, I'm signing off; or taping fingers together!
 

[oceanexploration]

From what I have read that trap is useless in a place like Aruba.

Kyle: Is there anyway to guess how long that cage has been down there? I noticed it had a fair amount of barnicles and stuff on it,just curious if you could tell between a cage that has been on the bottom for 3 years as opposted to 10 or so?

We are really limited to ballpark estimates.  The trap wasn't recently lost, as in lost this season. If I had to guess based on the condition of the frame, mesh, rigging and contents, I would say it has been there on the order of several years, but certainly not 10s of years, and certainly more than a year. The amount of deterioration is in my opinion consistent with what you would expect after 2 1/2 years, but this does not confirm or deny anything and is just my opinion.

[Destiny]

From what I have read that trap is useless in a place like Aruba.

Kyle: Is there anyway to guess how long that cage has been down there? I noticed it had a fair amount of barnicles and stuff on it,just curious if you could tell between a cage that has been on the bottom for 3 years as opposted to 10 or so?

We are really limited to ballpark estimates.  The trap wasn't recently lost, as in lost this season. If I had to guess based on the condition of the frame, mesh, rigging and contents, I would say it has been there on the order of several years, but certainly not 10s of years, and certainly more than a year. The amount of deterioration is in my opinion consistent with what you would expect after 2 1/2 years, but this does not confirm or deny anything and is just my opinion.

Thanks OE!...That was my guess too...based on scuba diving my whole life...

[Nut44x4]

bringing this over from 10 days ago...

As some of you know, I follow the site meter quite often here. I am going to go out on a limb and take a guess that IF Joran is in Germany, then he is in Kassel, which is located in Deutschland, I believe.

[klaasend]

KLASS....I spoke with M.Weaver for about 8 mins...she gave me some info...I don't know if I should put on list...it makes it to all the dark-side lists...she is also going to email me with a yea or nay email...I also got her married name...she just goes by her maiden name...I didn't know that...bet all you other Monkeys did...LOL at me...

So KLASS...where do you want me to send email to you...you decide if goes to list K?

email me at smklaas@hotmail.com

The question is does M.Weaver know that it may be posted in a forum.

[bleachedblack]

Given the knowledge and rumors of Steve Croes supplying drugs to various tourists and such and LVR being the known drug supplier in the area...I would think they do indeed know each other.  OMG!   I may be in trouble now for mentioning he who must not be named. 

As many pics as we have seen of Steve Croes being at C+C's (Coolaruba.com) I would have to agree that at one time or another they have been acquainted. JMO

[Rob]

Janet, thanks for the reply.... and yes, you're right also. I made another post to clarify that.

In this instance, Mos is saying that he (Mos) knows more than we do and that has led to Joran being the prime suspect in the case. He has nothing that raises to the level that gets Joran back to formal status. He's everyone's prime suspect. And that's a nice way to tell us all that Mos is still working the case while not accumulating enough to actually charge Joran or enough evidence to present to the judge of instruction to place the formal tag back on Joran.

Make sense?

[Destiny]

KLASS....I spoke with M.Weaver for about 8 mins...she gave me some info...I don't know if I should put on list...it makes it to all the dark-side lists...she is also going to email me with a yea or nay email...I also got her married name...she just goes by her maiden name...I didn't know that...bet all you other Monkeys did...LOL at me...

So KLASS...where do you want me to send email to you...you decide if goes to list K?

email me at smklaas@hotmail.com

The question is does M.Weaver know that it may be posted in a forum.

No...doesn't know...and she did even ask for my email addy...to send some info...as soon as she gets her reply...don't want to mess this up...ya know what I mean?  Lord...people just love to talk to me...

[oceanexploration]

Hello everyone. I came home to get some tools and I couldn't resist checking in and seeing whats up. I hope that is true about Joran, but I am with you in that I'll reserve my elation for later, when it is verified:)

I do have a favor to ask anyone who happens to be on at the same time as Kyle. I am curious what the circumstances were surrounding his leave from the boat he described during which the Dutch ship came close to the trap location. Was it scheduled, expected, normal, or out of the blue?

I was reading about Steve Croes and everyones investigation of him, and I noticed his age, and I wonder if he and Lorenzo are friends since they are the same age about. Anyway, I'll be back and keep up the good work. Everybody better behave because I heard Klaas has an internet electric keyboard shocker installed now, and if you don't mind, she can direct a electric charge from her machine to the offendings keyboard:) Don't make her use it:)

After the Jan 7th dive, I was scheduled to take a short break on land, staying at the Holiday Inn between Jan 9th and returning to the Persistence on Jan 14th.  I had been working steadily since Dec 15th and needed a break.  It was a coincidence I was around to be walking the beach to observe what I saw with the vessel at or near the site on the 11th and 12th of Jan.  I don't know for certain if there is anything to it.  When asked if they were diving the site, they replied: "we don't have dive capabilities". 

[Observer]

From what I have read that trap is useless in a place like Aruba.

Kyle: Is there anyway to guess how long that cage has been down there? I noticed it had a fair amount of barnicles and stuff on it,just curious if you could tell between a cage that has been on the bottom for 3 years as opposted to 10 or so?

We are really limited to ballpark estimates.  The trap wasn't recently lost, as in lost this season. If I had to guess based on the condition of the frame, mesh, rigging and contents, I would say it has been there on the order of several years, but certainly not 10s of years, and certainly more than a year. The amount of deterioration is in my opinion consistent with what you would expect after 2 1/2 years, but this does not confirm or deny anything and is just my opinion.

Thanks! I was figuring about the same,but wasn't sure if it could have been 10 years or so.

Was that cage intact/closed when you viewed it? Just wondering if it was,because that would help keep everything in the cage that was originally placed there. Also it would keep out the large fish that live at that depth.

[Observer]

bringing this over from 10 days ago...

As some of you know, I follow the site meter quite often here. I am going to go out on a limb and take a guess that IF Joran is in Germany, then he is in Kassel, which is located in Deutschland, I believe.

Are they viewing the cage? I have seen Kassel on the sitemeter often last year but they never viewed anything very long.

[texasmom]

Given the knowledge and rumors of Steve Croes supplying drugs to various tourists and such and LVR being the known drug supplier in the area...I would think they do indeed know each other.  OMG!   I may be in trouble now for mentioning he who must not be named. 

Lala's I believe it is safe to discuss any possible/probable suspects without fear of being attacked.  I have seen that name mentioned quite a bit lately without problems.   
 

[MumInOhio]

Hello everyone. I came home to get some tools and I couldn't resist checking in and seeing whats up. I hope that is true about Joran, but I am with you in that I'll reserve my elation for later, when it is verified:)

I do have a favor to ask anyone who happens to be on at the same time as Kyle. I am curious what the circumstances were surrounding his leave from the boat he described during which the Dutch ship came close to the trap location. Was it scheduled, expected, normal, or out of the blue?

I was reading about Steve Croes and everyones investigation of him, and I noticed his age, and I wonder if he and Lorenzo are friends since they are the same age about. Anyway, I'll be back and keep up the good work. Everybody better behave because I heard Klaas has an internet electric keyboard shocker installed now, and if you don't mind, she can direct a electric charge from her machine to the offendings keyboard:) Don't make her use it:)

Thanks for the warning PI, I'm on "best behavior", if a certain cryptic poster signs on, I'm signing off; or taping fingers together!
 

...Thanks for checking in to that ...

[oceanexploration]

Thanks! I was figuring about the same,but wasn't sure if it could have been 10 years or so.

Was that cage intact/closed when you viewed it? Just wondering if it was,because that would help keep everything in the cage that was originally placed there. Also it would keep out the large fish that live at that depth.

It's possible to have been 10 years or so.  I don't know for certain and don't have any way to readily test this. The trap was somewhat intact.  It's north side was in poor shape, with significant deterioration of it's northern panels.  The trap's doop is usually fastened to the outside of the trap.  It was laying inside the trap, as if pushed open. The contents sampled inside the trap were laying on top of the door.  The trap was found in 90 ft.

[Buckeye]

KLASS....I spoke with M.Weaver for about 8 mins...she gave me some info...I don't know if I should put on list...it makes it to all the dark-side lists...she is also going to email me with a yea or nay email...I also got her married name...she just goes by her maiden name...I didn't know that...bet all you other Monkeys did...LOL at me...

So KLASS...where do you want me to send email to you...you decide if goes to list K?

Nice job Destiny. I've always felt she was more of a journalist than the females from the trash publications.  I didn't know her married name or if I did, I forgot it.

[Destiny]

KLAAS Please check your email....Thanks

[Rob]

Here's is my take... please feel free to disagree.

PRIME SUSPECT - STRONG SUSPICIONS. Everyone suspects a certain person of wrong doing. Not official. This can not lead to a charge independent of the next step, which would be ->

FORMAL SUSPECT STATUS - STRONG EVIDENCE - A case is being assembled and the charges may be reduced or increased depending on the evidence present and allowed into court by the judge of instruction. The evidence would need to lead a reasonable judge to conclude the charges are correct and the outcome could be a conviction. If the evidence is not there to lead the judge to a conviction, all proceeding would halt while investigations continue and evidence collected.

It doesn't seem to me that a trial will take place unless there is ample opportunity for conviction. The court does not want to appear to waste time and resources on a case that will end in acquittal. So, investigations continue and only when new evidence is collected will Joran be elevated to the formal status. Then a possible trial would occur if the evidence is deemed heavy enough to get a conviction.