Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 - 3/25/08

[Tamikosmom]

SS: I wouldn't leave Lorenzo out of the equation at all as I think Joran was reffering to 2 people as Daury,Lorenzo and his Father.IMO Even Anita said Joran knew LVR as a young boy,plus he is older and would be the type that Joran has stuff on. Not to mention the strong rumors of there relation and Jossy telling us they are close and seen together often.
=============================

Was Natalee last prey? (Telegraaf)

Mother missing american: this boy is not the perpetrator

Beaches of Aruba hunting-fields of Geoffrey van C.

written by: Oscar van Dam and Bart Olmer (translation as always by Rammstein)

AMSTERDAM - Geoffrey van C., the 19 year old Aruban beachpatrol guard, who was arrested in the mysterious disappearance of the American schoolgirl Natalee Holloways, is an offspring of a dutch family that have a long history in the dutch police-force. His sister is police-officer on Aruba. His dad was a cop in Breda for about 20 years. On Aruba Geoffrey's dad owns a security company, Geoffrey has worked for this security company.

Did Geoffrey van C. avoid arrest due to his families police-contacts? That is at least what arubans have been whispering about after Geoffrey's arrest on saturday. The rumours about favoritism are fed by pictures in which Geoffrey is seen at the inauguration of his sister into the policeforce, all around him are police-officials and high ranking Aruban officials. And what about the friendship between Geoffrey and investigating cop's son Gerold Dompig, the man who untill recently headed the Holloway investigation?

Sport

Together with Dompig's son, Geoffrey made a sport of it to seduce American girls on the Aruban beaches, at least that is what an aruban newspaper has reported. The boys impersonated police-officers or detectives when talking to these girls.

According to rumours, van der C. also had close ties to former main suspect Joran van der Sloot. Not withstanding all the above mentioned facts, Geoffrey was never interrogated untill last weekend. The family of C. moved to Aruba in 1999. Shortly before they departed his father started his own security company called 'Video Camera Beveiligingssystemen' (VCB) (in English that means Video Camera Securitysystems).

On the Antilles his company VCB handles the security of several government buildings and hotels, among them the Holiday Inn Hotel, where 'high school-beauty' Natalee Holloway stayed untill her disappearance on may 30th 2005. The video camera's of his company made the last images known of the american schoolgirl. Natalee disappeared after a visit to the beach where Geoffrey patrolled when he worked for his father's company VCB, he worked for the high-visibility team.

This unit protects the tourists on the powderwhite carribean beaches on Aruba. The detective-squad that has been investigating the disappearance of Natalee, has - according to unverified media-claims - a T-shirt with bloodevidence with the VCB logo on it, that supposedly was from guard Geoffrey.

The DA's office officially suspects him of being involved in the disappearance of the american girl and drugstrade offences. According to police-sources, Natalee was drugged with XTC, sexually abused and dumped. The arrest of Geoffrey van C. comes after months of relative silence, in which the investigation seemed not to be moving forward.

The DA's office is keeping tight-lipped about the evidence they have against this new suspect. His laywer, mr. Eline Lotter Homan refused to comment. Earlier the police arrested dutchman Joran van der Sloot (18) and the 2 surinam brothers Satish (18) and Deepak (21). With these three boys Natalee was last seen leaving a nightclub in Oranjestad.

Beth Twitty, the mother of the missing girl, is "guardedly optimistic" with the new developements. But she thinks that the newly arrested boy isn't the perpetrator but a witness that withheld important information about the case. The mother still believes that Joran, Deepak and Satish are the keys to cracking this mysterious case wide open.

According to lawyer mr. Joseph Tacopina, his client doesn't know the arrested Geoffrey van der C. The lawyer compliments the newly appointed leader of the investigation with following up leads earlier ignored in this difficult investigation. From his own investigation Tacopina claims that Natalee had contact with the new suspect during the first days of her stay on Aruba but so far there is no confirmation of these claims.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/common/jsp/print/printTemplate.jsp?artId=38460631&secId=28781

I agree *******.

Janet

[SS]

Here's some more solagnier + aruba.  It's about as clear as mud.  This ancestral data is so old. 

http://www.geocities.com/genaruba/Page5_29.html

28.   Casper Theodorus Croes, born 17 mei 1825 in Aruba46; died 13 juli 1889 in Aruba46.  He was the son of 56. Frans Muller Croes and 57. Catharina Theresa Tromp.  He married 29. Regina Jacomina Ravine 11 augustus 1847 in Aruba47.
29.  Regina Jacomina Ravine, born Abt. 1824 in Aruba48; died 18 oktober 1897 in Aruba48.  She was the daughter of 58. Paulus Ravine and 59. Maria Margaretha Solagnier.

Children of Casper Croes and Regina Ravine are:
  i. Jan Croes, born 11 januari 1848 in Aruba49; died 02 januari 1918 in Aruba50; married Abeona Croes 23 juni 1869 in Aruba51; born 19 oktober 1851 in Aruba52; died 06 oktober 1926 in Aruba53.
14 ii. Johannes Nicolaas Croes, born 29 september 1863 in Aruba; died 23 maart 1947 in Aruba; married Theolinda Robustiana Lampe 24 september 1884 in Aruba.

http://www.geocities.com/genaruba/Page12_29.html

118.  Michel Benoit Solagnier, born 09 juni 1754 in Marseille, France112; died 28 april 1831 in Aruba112.  He married 119. Regina Jacomina Croes.
119.  Regina Jacomina Croes, born 14 oktober 1781113; died Bef. 1831113.  She was the daughter of 108. Nicolaas Croes and 109. Maria Elizabeth van der Biest.

Child of Michel Solagnier and Regina Croes is:
59 i. Maria Margaretha Solagnier, born 25 mei 1804; died 29 oktober 1861 in Aruba; married Paulus Ravine 16 augustus 1826 in Aruba.

[bleachedblack]

Dj Diablo and Loco Stef party it up as usual.

Cocaine- It does a body good!

 

yep a box of loreal $5.00 ,a few grams of crack $50.00, another identity=PRICELESS

[Destiny]

I WANT TO KNOW!

I really do believe what I was told on the phone today...why would Hans start calling Embassies to find out if Urine was arrested, based on a tiny rumor, that it was reported on a tiny radio station...that no one has been able to confirm....

My other contact today was from the Diario...I was told that they *had confirmed* that Urine is in Germany...

Why doesn't the prosecutor, of such a high profile case *not know* what is going on, without having to call other countries to find out...why?   The hen house has been raided...who's watching the fox.....I want to know...

[jackb]

The Coast Guard is not the same as the Aruba police dive division.  It seemed very odd to be told they don't have dive capabilities, especially after they told us it would take about 10-14 days to get a Dutch forensic team on site.  This was 12 and 13 days later.  Coincidence perhaps? 


Why would they need a special Dutch forensic team and be willing to wait 10-14 days if there was just a piece of cloth in the trap? 

Valenjtin has divers certification, maybe he can join the coast guard and give 'em a hand.   jackb

[Observer]

According to the last reports Joran is not in Den Dolder but near Utrecht
It is a complex for people with drug problems
It belongs to Altrecht and centre Maliebaan.
Posted by Johan555

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.200

[SS]

I don't know who the ex-monkey is, but Fin has to be talking about Steve Cores as the "Fifth".  There just isn't any recent genealogy information on the Internet about recent generations of the Cores or Solagnier/Solognier families.  There's lots of dirt about the Solagniers and the Mansurs in those links that I left put on the last thread.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/17/missing.teen/index.html

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- Authorities probing the disappearance of missing Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway arrested the DJ of a popular party boat Friday morning and searched his home.

A prosecutor's spokeswoman, Mariaine Croes, in keeping with Aruban law, identified him only by his initials, S.G.C. She said he was born July 21, 1978.

CNN spoke with his next-door neighbor, who identified himself as Rufo Solognier. He identified the person arrested as his nephew Steve Croes and described him as a quiet, divorced father of a 2-year-old son.

The prosecutor's office said there is no relationship between its spokeswoman and the suspect, and that the name "Croes" in Aruba is about as common as "Smith" in the United States.

Solognier said he did not know of any connection between Croes and the three others in custody.

Croes' boss on the Tattoo cruise ship, Marcus Williams, told CNN the boat generally does not go out on Sunday nights.

Even when the boat does go out on Sundays, it returns by midnight, Williams said.

The boat docks about 300 meters, or about 1,000 feet, from the Holiday Inn where Holloway was staying.

It was about 1:30 a.m. Monday May 30 that Holloway was last seen leaving the nightclub Carlos'N Charlie's with three young men, police said. (Full story)

Police commissioner Jan Van Der Straten said Croes' arrest came after he was named by one of the three suspects being held.

[SS]

According to the last reports Joran is not in Den Dolder but near Utrecht
It is a complex for people with drug problems
It belongs to Altrecht and centre Maliebaan.
Posted by Johan555

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.200

Well, it's about time that his parents did something about the substance abuse.  Urine has had a drink in his hand in the majority of the pictures that I've seen of him and he was only in high school.  I wonder if Taco Joe made this suggestion.  I smell a court defense where he was not responsible for his behaviors because of drug/alcohol  addiction.

[Rob]

Well, it's about time that his parents did something about the substance abuse.  Urine has had a drink in his hand in the majority of the pictures that I've seen of him and he was only in high school.  I wonder if Taco Joe made this suggestion.  I smell a court defense where he was not responsible for his behaviors because of drug/alcohol  addiction.

Right SS, should it ever get to a trial and a conviction, they will claim mental impairment. No doubt... and who could argue? That boy is a nutball... a crazy dangerous nutball.

[caesu]

According to the last reports Joran is not in Den Dolder but near Utrecht
It is a complex for people with drug problems
It belongs to Altrecht and centre Maliebaan.
Posted by Johan555

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.200

this place johan555 mentioned is actually in utrecht - eastern outskirt lunetten.

is has some kind of farm (blauw huis):
http://www.sbwu.nl/files/pdf/sbwu_locatieblauwehuis1.pdf (PDF)

but also more standard building:
http://www.centrummaliebaan.nl/centrummaliebaan_C01/Modules/ItembankA/ItembankA_Item.asp?CustID=514&ComID=1&ModID=1026&ItemID=3219&SessionID=734992760918528426848652129&Time=232320

den dolder is also near utrecht. north-east of utrecht.
on the alrecht w.a. hoeve location mentioned in the Privé tabloid is also a maliebaan building.

east of utrecht direction of den dolder is filled with that kind of mental institutions of for the disabled/blind.
that part of the country close to the veluwe a forrest/rural kind of area popular spot for such places.

so if someone has to make a wild guess in which institution he is - east of utrecht would be a good chance.

[Rob]

I heard Satish is in therapy too...

The Ghostwhisperer is trying to coax him outta his shell and 16th grade. LOL 

[wreck]

Joran is not being "detained" for drug treatment -- it's for "Foot-in-Mouth" disease. Locking him up is the only way to keep him quiet.

[KarmaRoundUp]

Dj Diablo and Loco Stef party it up as usual.

Is this from C&C's?Steve Croes is also back to DJ'ing on the Tattoo.

[Destiny]

I WANT TO KNOW!

I really do believe what I was told on the phone today...why would Hans start calling Embassies to find out if Urine was arrested, based on a tiny rumor, that it was reported on a tiny radio station...that no one has been able to confirm....

My other contact today was from the Diario...I was told that they *had confirmed* that Urine is in Germany...

Why doesn't the prosecutor, of such a high profile case *not know* what is going on, without having to call other countries to find out...why?   The hen house has been raided...who's watching the fox.....I want to know...

Posting to my own post...is that crazy or what!

When I spoke with Diario...I asked if it was true that Urine was in a *mental* hospital...I was told...I talked with his parents...they *refused* to confirm that....but, by our own ivestigation...*we did confirm that Joran is in Germany*...

I want to hop on a plane and go find the chit myself!

[Tamikosmom]

I don't know who the ex-monkey is, but Fin has to be talking about Steve Cores as the "Fifth".  There just isn't any recent genealogy information on the Internet about recent generations of the Cores or Solagnier/Solognier families.  There's lots of dirt about the Solagniers and the Mansurs in those links that I left put on the last thread.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/17/missing.teen/index.html

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- Authorities probing the disappearance of missing Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway arrested the DJ of a popular party boat Friday morning and searched his home.

A prosecutor's spokeswoman, Mariaine Croes, in keeping with Aruban law, identified him only by his initials, S.G.C. She said he was born July 21, 1978.

CNN spoke with his next-door neighbor, who identified himself as Rufo Solognier. He identified the person arrested as his nephew Steve Croes and described him as a quiet, divorced father of a 2-year-old son.

The prosecutor's office said there is no relationship between its spokeswoman and the suspect, and that the name "Croes" in Aruba is about as common as "Smith" in the United States.

Solognier said he did not know of any connection between Croes and the three others in custody.

Croes' boss on the Tattoo cruise ship, Marcus Williams, told CNN the boat generally does not go out on Sunday nights.

Even when the boat does go out on Sundays, it returns by midnight, Williams said.

The boat docks about 300 meters, or about 1,000 feet, from the Holiday Inn where Holloway was staying.

It was about 1:30 a.m. Monday May 30 that Holloway was last seen leaving the nightclub Carlos'N Charlie's with three young men, police said. (Full story)

Police commissioner Jan Van Der Straten said Croes' arrest came after he was named by one of the three suspects being held.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186707,00.html

Joran van der Sloot
On the Record w/ Greta
March 3, 2006

VAN SUSTEREN: Coming up, another arrest was made in the Holloway case but party boat DJ Steve Croes was he an innocent bystander or was he part of a conspiracy?

<snipped>

VAN DER SLOOT: I don't know the guy. I've never met him before.

VAN SUSTEREN: You don't know this guy?

VAN DER SLOOT: I don't know this guy and I never talked to him before in my life.

<snipped>

VAN SUSTEREN: Three weeks into the Natalee Holloway investigation the two innocent security guards had been arrested and then released. Joran van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers were in jail.

Then came a new development. Police arrested an Aruban DJ who worked on the party boat Tattoo. We sat down with Joran van der Sloot and asked him about Steve Croes.

<snipped>

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know the DJ for the Tattoo, the party boat?

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, that's another thing that, you know, we talked about that I wanted to talk to you about too. I mean that's — like I even feel, I feel horrible for too. I mean he was just trying — trying to help. I don't know the guy. I've never met him before.

VAN SUSTEREN: You don't know this guy?

VAN DER SLOOT: I don't know this guy and I never talked to him before in my life.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know if Deepak knows him?

VAN DER SLOOT: I don't know if Deepak knew him. All that happened this one day he called me and he said, you know, "I got the jackpot" and I was like "Yes, what happened?" He's like, "Oh, don't worry. I'm going to come — I'm going to come to your house and tell you."

And then he came to me and he said that someone had come up to him and said that he saw us, that he'd seen us drop the girl off at the Holiday Inn and that he would — and that, yes, if there was anything he'd testify to that to police. That's what Deepak told me. So, I was like, you know, OK. That's great.

VAN SUSTEREN: So, Deepak was adding to the lie essentially coming up with a corroboration of the lie, the Holiday Inn's lie.

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, you know, he talked to the — I don't know what - - I wasn't there when he talked to Steve Croes. I don't know what went along with him but, you know, he just talked to Deepak and he came, yes, and that Steve Croes ended up saying that he saw us dropping Natalee off at the Holiday Inn. And they talked for — I mean they held him for ten days too. I mean that's — that's not — that's not fun to be in jail at all. They talked to him for ten days.

VAN SUSTEREN: But he had — but he had lied. I mean they caught him in that lie.

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, and then by that time we changed our declaration already. I mean, I mean he lied, yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: So, I take it that Deepak told you that between May 30th and June 9th...

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: ...told you the story about the Tattoo boat. Did you ask him how he knew the guy?

VAN DER SLOOT: No, he told me he didn't know the guy.

VAN SUSTEREN: The guy just spontaneously came up to him?

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, at work. That's what he told me. The guy (INAUDIBLE) came up to him at work and told him that.

VAN SUSTEREN: I assume you thought that was odd.

VAN DER SLOOT: I don't know. I don't know. I mean I don't know if that's true or not. I never met the guy before.

[Destiny]

Monkeys...please excuse my rants...I made myself a Martini...I think the *olives* are getting to me....

[SS]

this place johan555 mentioned is actually in utrecht - eastern outskirt lunetten.

is has some kind of farm (blauw huis):
http://www.sbwu.nl/files/pdf/sbwu_locatieblauwehuis1.pdf (PDF)

but also more standard building:
http://www.centrummaliebaan.nl/centrummaliebaan_C01/Modules/ItembankA/ItembankA_Item.asp?CustID=514&ComID=1&ModID=1026&ItemID=3219&SessionID=734992760918528426848652129&Time=232320

den dolder is also near utrecht. north-east of utrecht.
on the alrecht w.a. hoeve location mentioned in the Privé tabloid is also a maliebaan building.

east of utrecht direction of den dolder is filled with that kind of mental institutions of for the disabled/blind.
that part of the country close to the veluwe a forrest/rural kind of area popular spot for such places.

so if someone has to make a wild guess in which institution he is - east of utrecht would be a good chance.


It looks like some kind of agriculture and irrigation is going on to the right of the building.  Maybe digging in the dirt is part of the therapy.  I wonder he's growing marijuanna in his corner of the garden, like his big brother Lorenzo.

[Observer]

If Joran is in the Utrecht Facility they have just about everything in this place,although I didn't see anything about Drug addiction,but they have both long and temporairy care. If he is here its probably light therapy,vocational help,that treats addictions and behavioral problems for 18-25 year olds. A good place to keep him away for a few months if you wanted to shut him up from the media and waiting for the De Vries tapes to blow over. He could probably even keep his phone and be in daily contact with his parents.

Utrecht location
Acute Psychicatry,Altrecht Talent(Assisted vocational,Rehab.etc),Bipolar,ADHD,Anxiety/Mood disorders,Jongvolwassenen (18-23 years with severe mental or psychosocial problems and a branch for psychotic therapy.

    
The department Wier in Den Dolder, is one of the five centres in the Netherlands with a recognition for observation, diagnosis and treatment of Strong Behavioral Gestoorde and Light Mentally Disabled. (S.G.L.V.G.),serious psychiatric illnesses,diagnosis, treatment, counselling and rehabilitation for people with problems in the field of psychiatry and addiction.

Wier is a research and behandelafdeling learner difficult for people who have serious problems. It is a closed section, which is located at the site of the William Arntsz Farm in Den Dolder.

We treat people with an IQ between 50 and 75, with whom the deal as very problematic. The origin of the problem lies in the person himself, his or her environment, and / or in the interaction between individual and environment. We have also written a number of clients with an IQ of 90 in progress, or because they are perceived by their problems better connect within the care for the mentally disabled. The age of the audience is between 16-55 years. The patients are from North Holland, Utrecht of Flevoland.

http://www.werkenbijaltrecht.nl/

[SS]

I heard Satish is in therapy too...

The Ghostwhisperer is trying to coax him outta his shell and 16th grade. LOL 

No doubt Satish is in therapy dur to the mental anguish and stress that was brought about by Dr. Phil's allegations.   

[Observer]

Dj Diablo and Loco Stef party it up as usual.

Is this from C&C's?Steve Croes is also back to DJ'ing on the Tattoo.

Mambo's I believe..Yes he's a pro cool DJ and swings from place to place. He probably has all that expensive DJ equipment..I wonder where he got the money?

I saw the Tatoo today in the paper..They had a party of over 200 people and interviewed Marcus Wiggins.