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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 - 3/25/08  (Read 349420 times)
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Rob
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« Reply #480 on: March 20, 2008, 06:14:32 PM »

Kyle, I have a question.

Initially when the search was announced there was indication that TWO ships were going to be used.

One 265 feet and the other 340 feet. How could those ships be justified when the Persistence was 'over kill'?

In fact many people blogged about the size of these ships and wonder if it was economically feasible. Was there a re-direct in which ship(s) would be used?
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« Reply #481 on: March 20, 2008, 06:16:55 PM »

Unions: No longer minimum staffing 



Yesterday, a large group of public employees on strike unexpectedly joined the parade in honour of the Day of the Flag and National Anthem.  The protest march went quietly, but a number of bystanders didn’t appreciate the action.

ORANJESTAD – The public employees’ unions are no longer going to stick to their word before the judge last Friday.  They are no longer going to guarantee the minimum staffing of vital government services like police, fire brigade, immigration, and air traffic control.

The deadline for the government to come with a ‘serious’ proposal was moved from Tuesday evening to 09:00 today.  The civil servants were incited to gather in front of Julianaschool at 10:00.  The union was going to tell them how to intensify the actions.  However, the attendance was low at 10:30; about 60 people.   

The government had another proposal on Saturday, in which she indicated for the first time that she wants to talk about indexation.  The proposal included a ministerial disposition of Premier Nelson Oduber, in which a Study Group Legal Position improvement is formally set up.   

This study group must no later than April 8, submit a proposal with ‘the issue of indexation or compensation for cost of living within the financial means of the government’.  The premier’s reason for setting up this study group is that the National Ordinance Material Civil Service Right (LMA) requires this.  In conformity with this law, the improvement of the legal position of the civil service must be done in the Central Committee for organized deliberation.

From the disposition it appears that the government acknowledges the right to strike of the public employees.  She also observes that ‘in this deliberation process, the basic assumptions of the unions and the government are flatly opposed’.   The government furthermore wants to know what the unions think of the legal position improvements, before submitting a definite proposal’.

The unions indicated soon after on Saturday that they won’t accept that proposal either.  A huge protest march was organized yesterday during the parade in the honour of the Day of the Flag and National Anthem.  Some bystanders didn’t appreciate this and were very angry.  “This is disrespectful!  This is our day; how dare they”, said an older woman.  Premier Oduber said that now that the strike has indurate, its consequences are for the union.  He called on everybody that suffers damages as a result of the strike, to take this to court.  According to Tourism-minister Edison Briesen, some airline companies have already indicated that they have suffered damage.  But before he goes public with this, he wants to wait for the report of the Aviation Administration.

According to spokesperson Hendrik Croes of Aruba Airport Authority (AAA), management has decided that in case the air traffic controllers walk out, they will redirect aircrafts with destination Aruba to the airports of Curacao and Bonaire.  “Despite the minimum staffing, the airport is at this moment not troubled by the strikes.  Only problem is that everybody that is present, must work extra hard.”

Other media reported yesterday that the minimum staffing does lead to obvious problems.  Because of that, two aircrafts arrived later than was scheduled.  Croes contradicts that:  “The reason was that yesterday, the airport of Curacao didn’t give clearance for departure when the aircrafts wanted to go.”

Nobody of the government was available this morning for comments on the announcement of the union to no longer guarantee minimum staffing.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #482 on: March 20, 2008, 06:18:48 PM »

Are words necessary?

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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #483 on: March 20, 2008, 06:22:11 PM »

"spokesperson Hendrik Croes of Aruba Airport Authority (AAA)"

http://www.aruba.com/news/airlines/airport-airlines-update-july-2007/

so that has to be another Croes 
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oceanexploration
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« Reply #484 on: March 20, 2008, 06:27:54 PM »

Kyle, I have a question.

Initially when the search was announced there was indication that TWO ships were going to be used.

One 265 feet and the other 340 feet. How could those ships be justified when the Persistence was 'over kill'?

In fact many people blogged about the size of these ships and wonder if it was economically feasible. Was there a re-direct in which ship(s) would be used?

First, WOW I haven't heard anything about two ships, or ships of that size being used in the search. I don't know where this information came from.  The Persistence was the right boat for the job.  Let me explain over kill.  Over kill was when we were finished using the capabilities intrinsic to the Persistence.  This includes a geophysical suite, namely side scan sonar, magnetometer, and bathymetric mapping abilities.  Once this portion of the work was complete, we no longer needed these capabilities. The information that came out early on about these tw boats you mentioned... I have not seen... and I was involved in the planning. 
There was a re-direct in which ship would be used before the Persistence.  I'm unsure of the boat that was to be used, but it withdrew at the last minute during mobilization if I'm not mistaken.  If memory serves, it was a similar size to the Persistence.  I'm sure someone here within minutes of the posting will correct me and post all the information on the boat.  It may have been the Apache.  Not sure.  Either way, the Persistence was just right for the job.  However, it isn't a ROV boat even though we used a small inspection class ROV with it.  It also lacks a dynamic positioning system enabling it to "hover" over a fixed position using bow and stern thrusters.     
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Personally, I prefer searching for lost shipwrecks.  They're bigger and don't have living enemies.
SEARCH FOR NATALEE BLOG:
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #485 on: March 20, 2008, 06:30:45 PM »

The unions indicated soon after on Saturday that they won’t accept that proposal either.  A huge protest march was organized yesterday during the parade in the honour of the Day of the Flag and National Anthem.  Some bystanders didn’t appreciate this and were very angry.  “This is disrespectful!  This is our day; how dare they”, said an older woman.  Premier Oduber said that now that the strike has indurate, its consequences are for the union. He called on everybody that suffers damages as a result of the strike, to take this to court.  According to Tourism-minister Edison Briesen, some airline companies have already indicated that they have suffered damage.  But before he goes public with this, he wants to wait for the report of the Aviation Administration.



The courts seem to have a method to address everyone's problems except Beth's and Dave's.

 
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« Reply #486 on: March 20, 2008, 06:35:22 PM »

Kyle, I have a question.

Initially when the search was announced there was indication that TWO ships were going to be used.

One 265 feet and the other 340 feet. How could those ships be justified when the Persistence was 'over kill'?

In fact many people blogged about the size of these ships and wonder if it was economically feasible. Was there a re-direct in which ship(s) would be used?

First, WOW I haven't heard anything about two ships, or ships of that size being used in the search. I don't know where this information came from.  The Persistence was the right boat for the job.  Let me explain over kill.  Over kill was when we were finished using the capabilities intrinsic to the Persistence.  This includes a geophysical suite, namely side scan sonar, magnetometer, and bathymetric mapping abilities.  Once this portion of the work was complete, we no longer needed these capabilities. The information that came out early on about these tw boats you mentioned... I have not seen... and I was involved in the planning. 
There was a re-direct in which ship would be used before the Persistence.  I'm unsure of the boat that was to be used, but it withdrew at the last minute during mobilization if I'm not mistaken.  If memory serves, it was a similar size to the Persistence.  I'm sure someone here within minutes of the posting will correct me and post all the information on the boat.  It may have been the Apache.  Not sure.  Either way, the Persistence was just right for the job.  However, it isn't a ROV boat even though we used a small inspection class ROV with it.  It also lacks a dynamic positioning system enabling it to "hover" over a fixed position using bow and stern thrusters.     

Rob & Kyle -

I believe the discussion of the 2 ships came from Shaeffer and it was very early on.  It was decided later for whatever reason to use the Persistence. 

Kyle - that is why you probably weren't in the loop durring the 2 ship discussions.
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« Reply #487 on: March 20, 2008, 06:35:37 PM »

Kyle, I have a question.

Initially when the search was announced there was indication that TWO ships were going to be used.

One 265 feet and the other 340 feet. How could those ships be justified when the Persistence was 'over kill'?

In fact many people blogged about the size of these ships and wonder if it was economically feasible. Was there a re-direct in which ship(s) would be used?

First, WOW I haven't heard anything about two ships, or ships of that size being used in the search. I don't know where this information came from.  The Persistence was the right boat for the job.  Let me explain over kill.  Over kill was when we were finished using the capabilities intrinsic to the Persistence.  This includes a geophysical suite, namely side scan sonar, magnetometer, and bathymetric mapping abilities.  Once this portion of the work was complete, we no longer needed these capabilities. The information that came out early on about these tw boats you mentioned... I have not seen... and I was involved in the planning. 
There was a re-direct in which ship would be used before the Persistence.  I'm unsure of the boat that was to be used, but it withdrew at the last minute during mobilization if I'm not mistaken.  If memory serves, it was a similar size to the Persistence.  I'm sure someone here within minutes of the posting will correct me and post all the information on the boat.  It may have been the Apache.  Not sure.  Either way, the Persistence was just right for the job.  However, it isn't a ROV boat even though we used a small inspection class ROV with it.  It also lacks a dynamic positioning system enabling it to "hover" over a fixed position using bow and stern thrusters.     
The two large ships were announced initially last summer (about June -- I think). Someone here ( I forget who) had the 2 proposed ships as their avatar.
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JE
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« Reply #488 on: March 20, 2008, 06:41:11 PM »

Caesu, great research!
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Rob
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« Reply #489 on: March 20, 2008, 06:53:05 PM »

Kyle, I have a question.

Initially when the search was announced there was indication that TWO ships were going to be used.

One 265 feet and the other 340 feet. How could those ships be justified when the Persistence was 'over kill'?

In fact many people blogged about the size of these ships and wonder if it was economically feasible. Was there a re-direct in which ship(s) would be used?

First, WOW I haven't heard anything about two ships, or ships of that size being used in the search. I don't know where this information came from.  The Persistence was the right boat for the job.  Let me explain over kill.  Over kill was when we were finished using the capabilities intrinsic to the Persistence.  This includes a geophysical suite, namely side scan sonar, magnetometer, and bathymetric mapping abilities.  Once this portion of the work was complete, we no longer needed these capabilities. The information that came out early on about these tw boats you mentioned... I have not seen... and I was involved in the planning. 
There was a re-direct in which ship would be used before the Persistence.  I'm unsure of the boat that was to be used, but it withdrew at the last minute during mobilization if I'm not mistaken.  If memory serves, it was a similar size to the Persistence.  I'm sure someone here within minutes of the posting will correct me and post all the information on the boat.  It may have been the Apache.  Not sure.  Either way, the Persistence was just right for the job.  However, it isn't a ROV boat even though we used a small inspection class ROV with it.  It also lacks a dynamic positioning system enabling it to "hover" over a fixed position using bow and stern thrusters.     

from my blog at the time -

http://zoltanzion.blogspot.com/search?q=340+feet

Saturday, June 9, 2007
Natalee Ann Holloway

Lots on my mind today. So much to write about. So many things tossing inside my gray matter like popcorn in a popper.

First, Tim Miller and TEXAS EQUUSEARCH will be returning to Aruba to give it one last go to locate missing Natalee Ann Holloway. Tim Miller was a featured guest on Dana Pretzer's Scared Monkey's Radio Show on 6-8-2007. Dana also spoke with Tim Miller about the KELSEY SMITH CASE. Click the above link to listen to the show. Great Job once again Dana! You always ask the right questions and correct follow-ups.

Revealed during the interview, TES will be accompanied by two ships ranging in size from 265 feet to 340 feet. These ships are equipped with state of the art equipment and if Natalee is in the deep water that TES was denied access to two years ago, Tim feels that they will locate Natalee. TES will be on Aruba for approximately 10 days, but that is not a definite. Things may change once TES is re-established on Aruba.

I'm praying, like everyone else, that Natalee is located. There will be some closure.

Let's take it to the next level and wonder out loud what will happen should Natalee be located.

A CRIME will have been committed if Natalee is indeed located in the deep water off the coast of Aruba. She did not put herself in a container and traverse the ocean herself to her final destination. But what crime will have been committed? There is more than ample technological evidence to PROVE that the four main suspects are involved in Natalee's disappearance. There is an overload of cell traffic, text messages and computer records to prove the right people were detained in Natalee's case. Not to forget, Paulus Van Der Sloot was denied his compensation for false arrest due to the fact he was wiretapped and made phone calls on the date he said he was sleeping and had no involvement in Natalee's disappearance. Paulus also admitted TWICE he picked Joran up at 4 AM. Once it was Joran alone, as heard by Claudio Eldridge outside the Van Der Sloot home, on the first night and then he was heard on the wiretap that he picked up NATALEE and Joran at the Palm Beach McDonald's at 4 AM.
Also, Paulus said it was utterly ridiculous that he was detained. Ridiculous INDEED!

Those that played role afterward have not all been identified to date.

Last time I checked the Dutch have a Navy of their own. Why are they not doing anything to locate Natalee in the deep water off of Aruba? Why are the KLPD on Aruba if not to get to the FINAL conclusion that will allow them to charge the suspects with the crimes they were detained on initially? If the Dutch Legal System is reliant on the fact that body does exist to prove a murder, why are they not searching themselves? I am sure the Dutch Navy has all of the same technology that the team TES has assembled will be using. So what gives here? The KLPD are seemingly content to tear up a yard and do a survey on the Kalpoe home in lieu of any heavy lifting. All that did, as far as I can see, is piss off Deepak Kalpoe. I'm for anything that pisses Deepak off, so that was a good thing.

If Natalee is located in the deep water off the coast of Aruba, will the KLPD be able to prove that Joran and Paulus Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe Brothers are the people responsible for her demise? or will they be unable to link those four to her murder?

At this time, I see no evidence that the KLPD is indeed serious about getting to the bottom of the Natalee Holloway case. If they were serious, they would be re-interviewing the main suspects to clear up the thousands of inconsistencies that have surrounded the case since June 1 2005.

Maybe the KLPD will surprise everyone but Robots who believes the KLPD are gonna slam the door on these slime bags.

Let's move on.

Joran Van Der Sloot gave an interview on Dutch TV. Joran Van Der Sloot continued to lie. He's setting an International record for most lies told in a lifetime. Get out the Guinness. Not BRILLIANT!

Joran Van Der Sloot is apparently feeling no heat from anyone. He writes a book while still a formal suspect and then does a book tour. Who in their right mind does that? No one has ever confused Joran with someone in their right mind.

Joran has told his story so many times, he actually believes it now. It's actually quite ridiculous to believe that Joran has no involvement. He admitted himself he is still the last person seen with Natalee.

Hey Joran, there isn't anymore time to have something bad happen using your own time line. You must think there are some really stupid people out here to believe that we believe anything you have to say. You look more guilty everyday. Keep talking! Please keep TALKING!

Joran blabbered on and on during the interview. He blabbered about the 'missing shoes'. It's is interesting that Joran continues to say that they are 'SHOES' as in plural. It's also interesting that Former Chief of Polis said they were looking for a MATCHING SHOE when draining the pond at the Marriott. Hard to know who to believe here. An admitted liar - Joran Van Der Sloot or a bumbling boob of a Former Chief of Polis - Gerold Dompig. That one is a tough call. I'll still go with Dompig. Dompig is not facing 15 years for being an idiot.

Natalee was drunk and acting crazy. She had a lot to drink, according to Joran. Well, that was the case until Joran miraculously found that he could be charged with rape for digitally penetrating Natalee.

Now Natalee is not drunk and not unconscious. Question? How does a person that has not been drinking and has not been drugged against her will go from a normal state of behavior to in and out of consciousness?

Remember Freddy Zedan Abrambatzis' declaration states that Natalee would not wake up. The suspects panicked and the rest is not known according to Freddy in the recently released PV due to the Kalpoe V McGraw case.

So which is it?

If Natalee is recovered, and I hope to God she is, please beware that the Beach Troll story will be the final chapter. Joran and Paulus have insulated themselves in-case Natalee is indeed found. They have already established so many lies and half-truths that the Dutch Investigators will be left wondering what they are even doing investigating the case. Joran and Paulus have left one person to hold the GUILT.

Boeti Naar. Boeti you better lawyer UP!
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« Reply #490 on: March 20, 2008, 06:57:53 PM »

wait a sec!!!

the Sloots don't own a gray car at all.

They own a red suzuki and a blue SUV (Hyundai??? KIA??) - is this right?

so, who's car is the one with the chuck missing from the steering wheel? is that the car seen in the Aru-Bay video? I thought we went over this before. did we?

He [PAULUS] is a civil servant and lives in a middle class neighborhood and drives a Honda? There is a great amount of wealth on this island and the v/d Sloots are not part of it. Taxi drivers probably make more than the judge!
Julia Renfro
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Aruba Today

[Note: It looks to be parked in front of his home in one picture]





« Last Edit: March 20, 2008, 07:04:56 PM by klaasend » Logged
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« Reply #491 on: March 20, 2008, 07:08:59 PM »

Caesu, great research!

I agree.  Perhaps it could be reposted, in its own thread for reference???


Could either of you help with this blog entry?  The translator doesn't make sense and I see Peter R. and Beth mentioned.  TIA

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/
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« Reply #492 on: March 20, 2008, 07:10:31 PM »

Kyle, I hate to be a pain in the ass, but I must ask - will you give a complete catalog of the Persistence's equipment and capabilities?

size
equipment
capabilities
over all life
expected life
hours used - before and after Natalee's search

and other info you feel could be pertinent

just to have a record on board at the Monkey Forum in case it becomes an issue in the future.

TIA and this is just a request - one you are free to reject - or - to comprise in your own time. 
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« Reply #493 on: March 20, 2008, 07:22:25 PM »

Kyle, I hate to be a pain in the ass, but I must ask - will you give a complete catalog of the Persistence's equipment and capabilities?

size
equipment
capabilities
over all life
expected life
hours used - before and after Natalee's search

and other info you feel could be pertinent

just to have a record on board at the Monkey Forum in case it becomes an issue in the future.

TIA and this is just a request - one you are free to reject - or - to comprise in your own time. 

Not Kyle, but equipment listed at Persistence site:

The mobilization has gone smoothly so far. All equipment is on board the R/V Persistence. The equipment consists of the following:
-Side scan sonar (Edgetech FS4200)
-SeaEye ROV, or remotely operated vehicle
- Sonardyne USBL (Ultra-Short Base-Line) system providing acoustic tracking of the side scan sonar and ROV
-Navigation provided by WinFrog software
- The vessel positioning is provided by multiple Trimble GPS receivers giving us about 1m accuracy.
-Communications (Phone, data transmit, and Internet) are performed by an Agiosat Global Communications Marine Tracking System.[/i]

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007_11_01_archive.html
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« Reply #494 on: March 20, 2008, 07:25:54 PM »

I see some pretty good post's and research today!!!!!!! Excellent!
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« Reply #495 on: March 20, 2008, 07:37:29 PM »

http://**:80/ci_8641724

K-9 officer, dog, return from service in Iraq
The Current-Argus
Article Launched: 03/20/2008 04:40:45 PM MDT


CARLSBAD - Diane Whetsel and her dog Sage are both happy to see green grass again. The duo recently returned to the United States after spending about half of a year in Iraq.
Whetsel lives part time in Carlsbad and part time in Hagerman, and she works as a K-9 officer for the New Mexico Corrections Department. Whetsel's K-9 partner, Sage, is an 8-year-old border collie trained as an advanced certified human remains detection dog. Sage has assisted during the aftermath of Sept. 11, hurricanes Katrina and Rita and the search for Natalee Holloway.

The duo worked with American K-9 Detection Services to help the military search for mass graves and missing soldiers in Iraq.

"We did find human remains, but we didn't find any of our guys," Whetel said. "It's still open as far as trying to find them. They're trying to keep three K-9 handlers in the country at all times."

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« Reply #496 on: March 20, 2008, 07:43:27 PM »

Klaas and *******

On the "Dutch" thread, I think johan thinks the photoshopped VDS house picture is the real one and the real picture has "new" houses built.  I tried to explain but I think someone needs to post "the real" picture and the possible date of the shopped one.  Geesh....I thought Shango was hard.....I might just have to travel to the Netherlands to try and practice my new "almost" language, when this is over.   
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« Reply #497 on: March 20, 2008, 07:49:03 PM »

Klaas and *******

On the "Dutch" thread, I think johan thinks the photoshopped VDS house picture is the real one and the real picture has "new" houses built.  I tried to explain but I think someone needs to post "the real" picture and the possible date of the shopped one.  Geesh....I thought Shango was hard.....I might just have to travel to the Netherlands to try and practice my new "almost" language, when this is over.   

Yup I saw that Sad I don't have the original non photoshopped pic at the moment or else I would post it for him.

I hear ya! I have worked with a company in holland the last several years and the language for the most part is still alien to me..Doesn't help learning with the online translator either 

Edited: Never mind I found it and will post it!
« Last Edit: March 20, 2008, 07:52:45 PM by Observer » Logged

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« Reply #498 on: March 20, 2008, 07:54:51 PM »

http://**:80/ci_8641724

K-9 officer, dog, return from service in Iraq
The Current-Argus
Article Launched: 03/20/2008 04:40:45 PM MDT


CARLSBAD - Diane Whetsel and her dog Sage are both happy to see green grass again. The duo recently returned to the United States after spending about half of a year in Iraq.
Whetsel lives part time in Carlsbad and part time in Hagerman, and she works as a K-9 officer for the New Mexico Corrections Department. Whetsel's K-9 partner, Sage, is an 8-year-old border collie trained as an advanced certified human remains detection dog. Sage has assisted during the aftermath of Sept. 11, hurricanes Katrina and Rita and the search for Natalee Holloway.

The duo worked with American K-9 Detection Services to help the military search for mass graves and missing soldiers in Iraq.

"We did find human remains, but we didn't find any of our guys," Whetel said. "It's still open as far as trying to find them. They're trying to keep three K-9 handlers in the country at all times."



God bless Diane Whetsel and her dog Sage. and God bless Kyle also.
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« Reply #499 on: March 20, 2008, 07:56:36 PM »

From caesu's post on page 24:

more about Rudy Croes
- i think this is for the public domain as he has public position (i've got more and waiting for even more but not relevant imo just yet):

he studied college school in the netherlands about analyzing microbiology (so not law-school).
also study pharma-microbiology in caracas.
head-analyst in (state)laboratories on aruba and venezuela.

was in 1993 involved in the establishment of the joint dutch-aruban-antilles coast guard (headed by the dutch, part of royal navy).
member or chairman of various parlaiment commitees during to time when he was not justice minister.

has padi diving licence.
has private plane flying licence.
he is/was also active in various sports.



 
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