Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 - 3/25/08

[Silverfox]

1. The 5th suspect was at a party of some kind at his house. I have no evidence that he was at his home on the night in question with some friends over. Remember, it was a simple party...at his house.
2. He was the HOST of this party. If he had a party, I would assume he was the host, right?
3. The people at this party established his alibi for him saying he never left. We would need to know who was there...we have no idea about GVC.

Unless, of course... Natalee was taken to this party and met her demise there -- This has been a long-standing theory for the RWV days and has NEVER been disproved.

[San]

Since most all of the monkeys are still asleep...I will attempt to clarify the criteria for being the 5th suspect.  I think this is about the  "umpteenth" time I have done this. (That is a slight Simian reference there, just in case some of you don't read it often). LOL

In order to be the 5th suspect you have to meet these criteria:

{edited}

Now, let's try Paulus...

1. The 5th suspect was at a party of some kind at his house.
2. He was the HOST of this party. No idea about a party at the Sloots.  I thought he had kids asleep there?
3. The people at this party established his alibi for him saying he never left.
4. The people that provided the alibi are the "party goers". Rumors that Ben King was staying there, who knows?
5. He has some contact with Natalee a few days before. He met her in the casino. This would have to be on security footage most likely if true...nothing I have ever seen tells me he met Natalee in the casino before that night at the blackjack table...but this is a real possibility.  I still contend she did not know Joran was his son until she was seated at that table that very night.
6. The alibi worked for him. He was released...so I wonder who provided his alibi or did he even need one. 
7. He met Natalee first before Joran did. I don't think Paulus was out looking for young girls, so he had to meet her somewhere...wonder where that could have been and what day?


As you can see...several people fit parts of the whole.  I am thinking maybe we still haven't found the right person.  It has been interesting to see how some of us have tried to make things fit.  Any number of people will work here in various ways. You can say the boyfriend is simply a way of saying a male acquaintance that seemed interested or you can turn the tables and say it was Guido jealous of Joran being with a girl. I have discussed the possibility of Paulus and another woman also as providing  the alibi and being at his house when Joran called him.  Remember, Simian refers to the 5th as maybe leaving this party and the party goers looked the other way.  Many, possible combinations...only one person fits all of them...so who is it?  Welcome to my world!

Good Lord Lala's you are busy this morning.

Let's take into consideration that the two boys were not home.  What better place to have a party then the Sloot home with the perverted old father and his psycho son.  Lala's Paulus and Joran established the alibi.  The alibi was that he went home to watch the kids.  His alibi was he other two children.  Paulus and Joran make it a point of saying he had to leave.  Joran says he had to pick up my little brother.

JMO but I always thought Paulus.

[Nut44x4]

Thanks Jack!  I remember a lot of discussion early in the case about an older man named Martin, seems like he was connected to Mr. Pink somehow IIRC.  Don't know if it's connected to what you're describing, just happened to think of it. 

Gag me @ Maarten...gross me out. You just had to remind me I have a folder with a bunch of his digustingness (lol) on my computer...gross.
Some of this may have already been posted...I still have a page or 2 to read to get caught up.

He uses or used to use a screen name of dutchdellboy1 and sometimes 2 on other sites...he has many other names too.
http://welcome.icq.com/people/about_me.php?uin=168089832
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showuser=20497
While searching him so long ago, I remember that he is listed on a gazillion sites as a member, but the profile is nearly empty. Everything from playing pool to playing with his weenie.

http://www.plentyoffish.com/member304603.htm

He posts on here--or at least he used to>>
http://www.coolthaihouse.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=0236745e30e7b3d049a6301bfdb18c59

This link no longer works...I didn't check the main link to search for him again because he is gross.
http://meetingthaipeople.com/mtp/viewtopic.php?t=352&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

This site says he is getting married (post date 2006)...grossness
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showuser=20497

He used to be on this site
http://www.pool-table-rules.com/pool_association/AS3.php

Tickle no longer exists so his ticklemepenis is no longer tickled there...gross.


http://www.wayn.com/waynprofile.html?member_key=607254
http://www.wayn.com/wayntrips.html?wci=view&trip_key=397331

Misc. site
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1424188/replies?c=1054

He also has the same name as a Doc in NL
http://www.biomedcentral.com/profiles/authorindex/default.asp?action=display&id=2115658291347703

you can google all day and find him everywhere. He is a dirty old man perverted thug piece of shit waste of oxygen predator of young women and men. IF he is who and what he seems to be...

[cubbeegirl]

there were two sets of friends on a person's tickle site

1. a random/rotating/computer generated set
which had nothing in common w/ site owner

2. a set of people invited as friends by site owner

Marten was invited friend of the majors in this case ...
and they were invited friends of Marten

it remained that way in the very earliest weeks/summer '05
and then, as if by receipt of memo, they all deleted each other

strangest Marten tickle site photos:

1. cropped photo/eyes only/caption: my eyes in june 2005

he was a decent looking/well groomed older man ...
nice eyes when he smiled

the "my eyes" photo was creepy looking,
as if he was coming off a binge or being amped/tweeked

2. Dave/Robin on tv screen ...
Marten's bed pulled away from wall ...
foot of bed placed directly underneath tv screen

his home appeared to be neat/nicely decorated ...
seemed odd to move bed out of position for photo

that took effort and meant ... something ... ?

That marten always gave me the creeps...

[Nut44x4]

I forgot to add that IMO if he is who and what he says he is then he is most likely involved in human trafficking.

[cubbeegirl]

Thanks Jack!  I remember a lot of discussion early in the case about an older man named Martin, seems like he was connected to Mr. Pink somehow IIRC.  Don't know if it's connected to what you're describing, just happened to think of it. 

Gag me @ Maarten...gross me out. You just had to remind me I have a folder with a bunch of his digustingness (lol) on my computer...gross.
Some of this may have already been posted...I still have a page or 2 to read to get caught up.

He uses or used to use a screen name of dutchdellboy1 and sometimes 2 on other sites...he has many other names too.
http://welcome.icq.com/people/about_me.php?uin=168089832
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showuser=20497
While searching him so long ago, I remember that he is listed on a gazillion sites as a member, but the profile is nearly empty. Everything from playing pool to playing with his weenie.

http://www.plentyoffish.com/member304603.htm

He posts on here--or at least he used to>>
http://www.coolthaihouse.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=0236745e30e7b3d049a6301bfdb18c59

This link no longer works...I didn't check the main link to search for him again because he is gross.
http://meetingthaipeople.com/mtp/viewtopic.php?t=352&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

This site says he is getting married (post date 2006)...grossness
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showuser=20497

He used to be on this site
http://www.pool-table-rules.com/pool_association/AS3.php

Tickle no longer exists so his ticklemepenis is no longer tickled there...gross.


http://www.wayn.com/waynprofile.html?member_key=607254
http://www.wayn.com/wayntrips.html?wci=view&trip_key=397331

Misc. site
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1424188/replies?c=1054

He also has the same name as a Doc in NL
http://www.biomedcentral.com/profiles/authorindex/default.asp?action=display&id=2115658291347703

you can google all day and find him everywhere. He is a dirty old man perverted thug piece of shit waste of oxygen predator of young women and men. IF he is who and what he seems to be...

I totally agree Nut.... the perv made my skin crawl and just looking at his sites left me feeling totally grossed out...

[cubbeegirl]

I forgot to add that IMO if he is who and what he says he is then he is most likely involved in human trafficking.

I always thought the same Nut...and I personally did not find him to be attractive at all....his pictures gave me the heebie jeebies....

[MumInOhio]

Lala’s…You knew this would bring me out from lurking!

Have a great Easter weekend everyone!

FREDDY,FREDDY,FREDDY!   Cool and crazy guy….Locoman

from Lala's:
In order to be the 5th suspect you have to meet these criteria:

1. The 5th suspect was at a party of some kind at his house. Relatives apparently interviewed. Friends interviewed.

2. He was the HOST of this party. See above.

3. The people at this party established his alibi for him saying he never left. See above.

4. The people that provided the alibi are the "party goers". Also above

5. He has some contact with Natalee a few days before. He met her in the casino. More than likely…It was Freddy as well as Joran who tried to hit on the tourists. ‘If he would strike out 20 times…he would make out on the 21st.’ (Now where did I hear that 20 times before?)

6. The alibi worked for him.  ‘Who said the alibi played for the Sloots?’ It appears it did. He is not listed as a suspect in the Natalee Holloway case.

7. He met Natalee first before Joran did. Highly possible…while Joran was in school. He worked at the Marriott/Champions. Soul Beach Festival Beach parties at Moombas during the day.
                       ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: Who framed who?
Take a close look at the famous picture.

Deepak, Joran and Satish at C&C. Whose hand is on Satish's shoulder? Take another look.
A really good look.

It can never be the hand of any of the three.

Merian Ernest Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject: The mysterious hand...

See the hand. On the infamous picture in C&C. The boy in the middle and the Hindus on each
side.

Whose hand is on the shoulder of the Hindu on he left? Somebody is missing on this picture.
Maybe somebody was placed on this picture?

It seems more people are vanishing in this case.

[Observer]

I see both Bondia and Arubatoday are not online..All we need is RU to go down for good and this will go from a good friday to a great friday 

[cubbeegirl]

I see both Bondia and Arubatoday are not online..All we need is RU to go down for good and this will go from a good friday to a great friday 

 

[oceanexploration]

A little over an hour ago This ScaredMonkeys forum was hijacked while attempting to access this 744 thread.  I was able to do a screen shot and trace the active link to www.akratz.com

Then I ran a whois search on Akratz and guess what?  It originates in the Netherlands!

Additionally it appears that the dot com site is used for hijacking and website attacks based on what I was able to see from doing google and askme prelim searches...

If this is an attack on scared monkeys then people should be sure to clear their caches, run your spyware and virus programs and be very careful of accessing sites requiring user names and passwords as you might have been phished or worse...

Here is what I captured... The text insert in red is placed there to help the security folks at scared monkeys in accessing your logs to try to see if you can discover any security breaches in your software.  The screen catch in the browser window (I use firefox) indicates that the scaredmonkeys metadata is intact -- but that the html was substituted... I tried to immediately read the source code of the page but was denied access.  a few moments later I was able to access the source code of the page as apparently the hacker might have detected he/she was being checked out and disconnected.  Please note that my date and time are Philippine time as we are a day ahead of you.

The fact this originates from the Netherlands is very very suspect...

Happy Good Friday / Easter to all the Monkeys. 

Silverfox,
Thanks for your efforts.  In laymens terms, what does this mean and what are it's potential impacts and implications?

[San]

Lala’s…You knew this would bring me out from lurking!

Have a great Easter weekend everyone!

FREDDY,FREDDY,FREDDY!   Cool and crazy guy….Locoman

from Lala's:
In order to be the 5th suspect you have to meet these criteria:

1. The 5th suspect was at a party of some kind at his house. Relatives apparently interviewed. Friends interviewed.

2. He was the HOST of this party. See above.

3. The people at this party established his alibi for him saying he never left. See above.

4. The people that provided the alibi are the "party goers". Also above

5. He has some contact with Natalee a few days before. He met her in the casino. More than likely…It was Freddy as well as Joran who tried to hit on the tourists. ‘If he would strike out 20 times…he would make out on the 21st.’ (Now where did I hear that 20 times before?)

6. The alibi worked for him.  ‘Who said the alibi played for the Sloots?’ It appears it did. He is not listed as a suspect in the Natalee Holloway case.

7. He met Natalee first before Joran did. Highly possible…while Joran was in school. He worked at the Marriott/Champions. Soul Beach Festival Beach parties at Moombas during the day.
                       ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: Who framed who?
Take a close look at the famous picture.

Deepak, Joran and Satish at C&C. Whose hand is on Satish's shoulder? Take another look.
A really good look.

It can never be the hand of any of the three.

Merian Ernest Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject: The mysterious hand...

See the hand. On the infamous picture in C&C. The boy in the middle and the Hindus on each
side.

Whose hand is on the shoulder of the Hindu on he left? Somebody is missing on this picture.
Maybe somebody was placed on this picture?

It seems more people are vanishing in this case.

MumInOhio, I wasn't thinking this morning when I made that post about it being Paulus.  It could very well be Freddy.  Freddy seems to slip on by like everything else in this case.

"Freddy needs to tell the truth"

[Blonde]

[Blonde]

there were two sets of friends on a person's tickle site

1. a random/rotating/computer generated set
which had nothing in common w/ site owner

2. a set of people invited as friends by site owner

Marten was invited friend of the majors in this case ...
and they were invited friends of Marten

it remained that way in the very earliest weeks/summer '05
and then, as if by receipt of memo, they all deleted each other

strangest Marten tickle site photos:

1. cropped photo/eyes only/caption: my eyes in june 2005

he was a decent looking/well groomed older man ...
nice eyes when he smiled

the "my eyes" photo was creepy looking,
as if he was coming off a binge or being amped/tweeked

2. Dave/Robin on tv screen ...
Marten's bed pulled away from wall ...
foot of bed placed directly underneath tv screen

his home appeared to be neat/nicely decorated ...
seemed odd to move bed out of position for photo

that took effort and meant ... something ... ?

Yes very strange, also items are cloned out look on the left side in the mirror you will see something gold that is not on the bed

[Tamikosmom]

A little over an hour ago This ScaredMonkeys forum was hijacked while attempting to access this 744 thread.  I was able to do a screen shot and trace the active link to www.akratz.com

Then I ran a whois search on Akratz and guess what?  It originates in the Netherlands!

Additionally it appears that the dot com site is used for hijacking and website attacks based on what I was able to see from doing google and askme prelim searches...

If this is an attack on scared monkeys then people should be sure to clear their caches, run your spyware and virus programs and be very careful of accessing sites requiring user names and passwords as you might have been phished or worse...

Here is what I captured... The text insert in red is placed there to help the security folks at scared monkeys in accessing your logs to try to see if you can discover any security breaches in your software.  The screen catch in the browser window (I use firefox) indicates that the scaredmonkeys metadata is intact -- but that the html was substituted... I tried to immediately read the source code of the page but was denied access.  a few moments later I was able to access the source code of the page as apparently the hacker might have detected he/she was being checked out and disconnected.  Please note that my date and time are Philippine time as we are a day ahead of you.

The fact this originates from the Netherlands is very very suspect...

<snipped>

 

[Silverfox]

A little over an hour ago This ScaredMonkeys forum was hijacked while attempting to access this 744 thread.  I was able to do a screen shot and trace the active link to www.akratz.com

Then I ran a whois search on Akratz and guess what?  It originates in the Netherlands!

Additionally it appears that the dot com site is used for hijacking and website attacks based on what I was able to see from doing google and askme prelim searches...

If this is an attack on scared monkeys then people should be sure to clear their caches, run your spyware and virus programs and be very careful of accessing sites requiring user names and passwords as you might have been phished or worse...

Here is what I captured... The text insert in red is placed there to help the security folks at scared monkeys in accessing your logs to try to see if you can discover any security breaches in your software.  The screen catch in the browser window (I use firefox) indicates that the scaredmonkeys metadata is intact -- but that the html was substituted... I tried to immediately read the source code of the page but was denied access.  a few moments later I was able to access the source code of the page as apparently the hacker might have detected he/she was being checked out and disconnected.  Please note that my date and time are Philippine time as we are a day ahead of you.

The fact this originates from the Netherlands is very very suspect...

Happy Good Friday / Easter to all the Monkeys. 

Silverfox,
Thanks for your efforts.  In laymens terms, what does this mean and what are it's potential impacts and implications?

Hi Kyle,

A number of monkeys have complained of having "visitors" in their computers over the past several months.  These visitors come inthe form of "trojans", "spyware", "viruses" and the like...

Sometimes these visitors will set up a storage system on your heard drive and connect to a much larger network of "zombie" computers owned by unsuspecting PC users.

In addition some of these visitors can plant and hide keystroke spys which essentially can transmit from the background of your computer all the keystrokes you make - i.e., sites visited, passwords, email addresses, email contents, etc...

It was strange to me in that I was logged into Scared Monkeys and was proceeding from the forum menu page into this specific thread when the browser window was "intercepted" and I got what you see in the pic attached.  When I did a mouse over of the links provided they indicated the prefix of the site followed by those specific characters or words as the suffix... Of course I did not click on any of those because who knows where it might of gone or what might have happened.

Then I took screenshot of the the page and attempted to read the source code of the page but the access was denied.  So then I did a whois search of the site mentioned as the prefix main site where the links originate and came up with the info shown in the second screenshot which indicates the owner of that dot com site is in the Netherlands... I am in the Philippines... what a coincidence?  Also if you study the words and phrases in the "search" you see what could be "cryptic" random words -- at any rate I then on another browser attempted to visit the main site of the offensive site... It would not pull up... then I discovered they released the page...

In a normal hijacking of a page you will not see the identifying metadata showing in the browser seek window but you can clearly see scaredmonkeys.com with the identifying topic id numbers... This is a more sophisticated hijack attempt...

I posted it here to alert everyone that I found it and to allow the ScaredMonkeys  admin and mods to double check site security including the ip addresses of visitors and any suspicious activity that might have occcured.

What is troublesome is that it DID take place.  If this is a trojan loader then it could be possible that by following a link you could store in your cookies script that allows the bad guys to eventually download a trojan with the right combination of keystrokes.  This could result in Phishing trojans being installed that could partition off portions of your hard drive as well as record keystrokes enabling them to access all your activity including personal and private information and passwords...

Just a precaution but everyone should clear your cache of your browsers and then run any spyware or virus software you might have...

Other than that Maybe these Monkeys are getting too close to something and someone would like to shut the site down in a denial of service attack or other form...

[Dugga]

A little over an hour ago This ScaredMonkeys forum was hijacked while attempting to access this 744 thread.  I was able to do a screen shot and trace the active link to www.akratz.com

Javascript injections and redirects of this type aren't uncommon, but SMF does very rigorous checking to prevent them. Not saying it's impossible that it happened, but there have not been any intrusions on the server side and there is no footprint on the front end (SMF) to indicate any wrongdoing.

These types of things also can come from the client side as browser exploits, so Silverfox you may do well to run a deep search of your hard drive for virus or trojans (which I am sure you have done already).

In any case, I will definitely be keeping an eye on this and sincerely appreciate the detail with which you outlined what you came across. At this time, I don't see a threat, but this is the Internet and I've learned enough to know never to say "never"! 

[Silverfox]

Dugga, you look strangely familiar...

Yes, I have done a deep scan of the hard drive here and that is not the problem...

[Lala'sMom]

1. The 5th suspect was at a party of some kind at his house. I have no evidence that he was at his home on the night in question with some friends over. Remember, it was a simple party...at his house.
2. He was the HOST of this party. If he had a party, I would assume he was the host, right?
3. The people at this party established his alibi for him saying he never left. We would need to know who was there...we have no idea about GVC.

Unless, of course... Natalee was taken to this party and met her demise there -- This has been a long-standing theory for the RWV days and has NEVER been disproved.

I agree...that is a theory that has indeed been long standing.  And believe it or not Capslock has resurrected it recently with his theories.  So you are correct, I just did not put it in there at the time.  It also opens a whole other can of worms. LOL

[Lala'sMom]

Since most all of the monkeys are still asleep...I will attempt to clarify the criteria for being the 5th suspect.  I think this is about the  "umpteenth" time I have done this. (That is a slight Simian reference there, just in case some of you don't read it often). LOL

In order to be the 5th suspect you have to meet these criteria:

{edited}

Now, let's try Paulus...

1. The 5th suspect was at a party of some kind at his house.
2. He was the HOST of this party. No idea about a party at the Sloots.  I thought he had kids asleep there?
3. The people at this party established his alibi for him saying he never left.
4. The people that provided the alibi are the "party goers". Rumors that Ben King was staying there, who knows?
5. He has some contact with Natalee a few days before. He met her in the casino. This would have to be on security footage most likely if true...nothing I have ever seen tells me he met Natalee in the casino before that night at the blackjack table...but this is a real possibility.  I still contend she did not know Joran was his son until she was seated at that table that very night.
6. The alibi worked for him. He was released...so I wonder who provided his alibi or did he even need one. 
7. He met Natalee first before Joran did. I don't think Paulus was out looking for young girls, so he had to meet her somewhere...wonder where that could have been and what day?


As you can see...several people fit parts of the whole.  I am thinking maybe we still haven't found the right person.  It has been interesting to see how some of us have tried to make things fit.  Any number of people will work here in various ways. You can say the boyfriend is simply a way of saying a male acquaintance that seemed interested or you can turn the tables and say it was Guido jealous of Joran being with a girl. I have discussed the possibility of Paulus and another woman also as providing  the alibi and being at his house when Joran called him.  Remember, Simian refers to the 5th as maybe leaving this party and the party goers looked the other way.  Many, possible combinations...only one person fits all of them...so who is it?  Welcome to my world!

Good Lord Lala's you are busy this morning.

Let's take into consideration that the two boys were not home.  What better place to have a party then the Sloot home with the perverted old father and his psycho son.  Lala's Paulus and Joran established the alibi.  The alibi was that he went home to watch the kids.  His alibi was he other two children.  Paulus and Joran make it a point of saying he had to leave.  Joran says he had to pick up my little brother.

JMO but I always thought Paulus.

I couldn't sleep...what can I say? LOL  I don't disagree with you at all..either.  The point I am trying to make is this...there are so many versions that almost fit and yet we are no closer to making it work. Wreck asked about the 5th suspect and you know how much work has been done on the subject.  Everything has to fit to be the 5th.  Remember there was a party....a small party...at his house...how could he have left?  Simian doesn't allude to why he left...just asks how?  Those little details will get you everytime. LOL