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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 - 3/25/08  (Read 349493 times)
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #680 on: March 22, 2008, 09:29:43 AM »

Quote
Stay safe on spring break; see photo gallery

Parents more cautious about students' travel


Amanda Bedgood
abedgood@theadvertiser.com

Spring break on the beach. It's a dream for high school and college students looking to party, relax or both. It's a nightmare for parents trying to decide at what age to let go of the reins and hope the lessons from home stick.

In 2005, Natalie Holloway, 18, put a face on parents' worst fear. An honor student and by all accounts good kid decides to leave a bar in Aruba with local boys and is never seen again

"Teenagers get themselves in situations they aren't mature enough to get themselves out of," Lafayette High School assistant principal Janet Guerrini said.

Standing at the edge of a throng of students during the school's Spring Fling fair on the last day before spring break Thursday, Guerrini explained that otherwise sane teenagers make rash decisions when faced with a beach packed with boozing.
"On March 31, I want every one of them to come back," she said pointing to the students laughing, listening to music, playing games behind the school. "I don't want to lose a senior. I don't want to go to graduation and have an open chair in their spot."

High school students aren't the only ones hitting the beach for spring break. College kids are seen as the majority of spring breakers.

And for many, drinking is one of the biggest reasons to head somewhere for spring break. In a 2006 study of women aged 17 to 35, 92 percent said it was easy to get alcohol while on spring break and two out of five women agreed access to free or cheap alcohol or a drinking age under age 21 were important factors in their decision to go on a spring break trip.

Those who have been part of the action like 22-year-old UL student Andrew Bullock say the students on spring break aren't likely doing anything on the beach they wouldn't do at home.

"Parents, let your kids go," he said. "Sooner or later they're going to be in college."

But, parents like Comeaux High School mom Ann Rudolph remember Holloway.

"Aruba changed that," she said for parents deciding whether to let their children go on trips with or without a chaperone. "Eighteen is still young. I think at least one parent should be with every couple of kids."

For Rudolph, that parent will be her if the occasion arises. Lafayette High School mother Evelyn Kavanagh said making decisions about spring break trips or any others depend on the place, the student's age and the chaperones.

Her high school daughter went on a chaperoned cruise last year, which she highly recommends if parent know the chaperones well.

Kermit Duhon, owner of Travel Machine in Lafayette, helps hundreds of students choose their spring break destination each year and he recommends cruises. He said cruise lines offer security.

"There are no bad guys coming on from the local bars," he said. "It's a fun, wholesome way to party."

Finding that wholesome way to do things is a task Duhon takes seriously. When students arrive at his agency looking to book for an infamous spring break party spot, he steers them in the other direction.

"We try to talk them out of it," he said. "We try to help them to understand that there are in the traditional spring break areas, there are bad guys who prey on young people every year who maybe had a little too much to drink or are just not world-traveled."

He said about half of the students listen and choose a different destination. And when it comes to out of the country travel, Duhon warns parents about the difference in the drinking age in places south of the border.

One of those places is Cancun, a popular spring break location, where the drinking age is 18. According to the American Medical Association, Cancun city and hospitals report an increase in deaths, rapes, injuries, assaults and arrests related to drinking during spring break.

"The Cancun trip lots of kids go on, you can't have enough chaperones for," Kavanagh said.

Wherever kids go, Kavanagh said it's important to research the location, the law enforcement and have some recourse when your child doesn't answer their cell phone.

"Have knowledge of the area," she said. "Don't send them to Timbuktu, not know the area or anything about it."

Thomas Leonards, a 22-year-old UL student, advised students to always know their surroundings, never be alone and do everything in moderation. He'll be going to Destin, Fla., for spring break this year. He said he chose the low-key location away from areas known for big parties because the crazy party scene isn't his style. And he said he doesn't really believe the images of decadence and debauchery, wet T-shirt contests and slamming beers are accurate for most students.

"Always the bad few in a bunch bring that stereotype," he said. " There are more people in the sidelines that don't partake in the whole spring break bash. That go all out like we see on TV."

But, parents like Heidi Awbrey aren't taking the chance.

"I think my kids are good and they aren't gong to get in trouble," she said. "You never know what other events are going to happen."

Awbrey's son is going on a scout trip to Arkansas to canoe -with chaperones - for spring break. She wants her children to travel, see the world. She also knows that this is the time she's preparing them to be on their own later. But, there are no guarantees that someone won't slip her child a date rape drug, she said.

Guerrini pointed to the same issue. Trips without enough chaperones can leave good kids in a bad position by opening the possibility for someone to prey on them.

"There's too much bad out there that good kids don't know about," she said. "Naive kids that want to have fun are an easy target for a predator."[/quote]

http://www.theadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080322/NEWS01/803220302/1002

People remember.
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Buckeye
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« Reply #681 on: March 22, 2008, 09:35:27 AM »

OK. I have a question...what night was it that GVC groped Natalee?  Was it in CnC's?  What night was it that Natalee had to escorted back to her hotel room because she was so woozy? TIA


From Pelham meeting, October 28, 2006.  Posted at BFN.

General Questions and Answers - Answers provided by Beth, Dave and Art Wood

snipped...

9.  Is there a Blue Eyed Dutch Boy?  NO, there is no blue eyed Dutch boy. 

10.  Association with GVC?  NO association with him except on the 27th at C & C's he slapped her on the rear.


GVC never caught my notice as being involved.  I put him in the same category as Michael Dompig.  They are family of case related people.  Perhaps their involvement is to keep the case related people quiet.  mo

I remember reading posts of pro-Joran posters linking GVC to all kinds of things, implying he was +++++++ or autistic, was a danger in every place he worked, impulsive, etc.  I see him as a diversion character.

I also remember reading about some kind of threat to Michael Dompig, that someone would implicate him.  I think that was a warning to his father.  Perhaps the father of GVC is a greater risk to the house of cards, and therefore his son got arrested.  I wonder if the GVC family wishes they never moved to "One Happy Island"?  jmho

Whiskey


I agree with your take on GVC.  If he had been involved, Joran would have never admitted to being the last with Natalee.  The risk is being the last one with someone that disappears (according to Arlene, early on).  As soon as someone was mentioned, that could have an implication, after "the beach" drop off, the disinformation team was running. The reason for the HI lie was to keep Joran from being alone with a missing person.  Either Joran was alone with Natalee or he was with family or another powerful person or the story would have been "we" left her on the road, after the party.  To protect Joran, there would have been no hesitation to implicate any other kid. The fact that Joran's story ends up with him "alone" with Natalee tells me that there are worse ramifications for him not to be alone.  The only thing "worse" that I can figure out is his father (and perhaps father's friends) implication.
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San
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« Reply #682 on: March 22, 2008, 09:37:42 AM »

Good Morning,

*******, TJ Ward told me that FBI got interested in Paul Brough and his phone records because of posters on the net. They did not know of him previously. The FBI then subpoenaed his records.

Who is the fifth suspect? To me, this is Paulus. It has to be in my opinion.

I believe Grande is correct and Clyde Burke is Simian and had access to the PVs hot off the presses and he participated in some of them. As we all know there are PVs that have not seen the light of day. It would be possible that Paulus or Joran said there was a small party a their house and Clyde Burke had intimate knowledge of that specific PV. This is also another reason to steer the crime scene away from the Sloot house of horrors.

It does not make it a fact, but it could be possible that Paulus discovered he needed an alibi when he was discovered on that casino video after he claimed to have left. A small party could have been his first line of deceit. He could have then realized that was not going to work and there would be questions for that people attending this small party.

Then Paulus shifts or changes his statement to insulate himself and involves Sebastian. A reason for involving Sebastian could be that he did not think Sebastian would be questioned due to his age and family relationship. That would have then shifted any questioning to the Zeollas*.

Again, just theory here, but possible.


Good Morning Rob and everyone else.

Rob I agree with everything you said.  Especially the part of Paulus involving Sebastian.
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« Reply #683 on: March 22, 2008, 09:49:24 AM »

Good morning and happy Easter Monkey's.
I found this post at RWV by following a link from the mr pink thread here at SM's.Also in the same thread at RWV,last post by a Glenda....when I mouse over the link with her name it reads"Glenda Croes"....thought that was interesting and confusing at the same time Smile

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From the arub resident, clarifying the TWO other people of interest in the case: LORENZO was the man questioned last night who is characterized as crazy and whose father commited suicide..this SGC person taken in today *************************

OK im so sorry for mixign this up...its just i have liek 30 people on my back at the same time and im at work answerign the phone! LOl
ok the Boy taht hsi father commited suicide (Lorenzo is his name) he was arrrested YESTERDAY...the one of TODAY (SGC) i have not been confirmed a name yet...but i dont know who his parents are

*************************

Posted by: Marin | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 10:59 AM


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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #684 on: March 22, 2008, 09:51:11 AM »

For Paulus to be the 5th suspect...does not say 5th man arrested...he has to have hosted a small party at his house the night Natalee disappeared and he has to have had an alibi given for him by the people attending this small party.  I want to see this proof.  I so want to eliminate this 5th suspect. 

Did it actually say at his house or are we assuming that because he was the host???

People can host parties AWAY from home.


Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “there whole time”.
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Buckeye
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« Reply #685 on: March 22, 2008, 09:53:27 AM »

For Paulus to be the 5th suspect...does not say 5th man arrested...he has to have hosted a small party at his house the night Natalee disappeared and he has to have had an alibi given for him by the people attending this small party.  I want to see this proof.  I so want to eliminate this 5th suspect. 

Did it actually say at his house or are we assuming that because he was the host???

People can host parties AWAY from home.


Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “there whole time”.


Thanks Lala's
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Rob
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« Reply #686 on: March 22, 2008, 09:53:44 AM »

San and Buckeye,
Doesn't what you (San) agree to and Buckeye (your post above) point directly at Paulus? How could it not? He is still the person without the alibi. As Buckeye indicates - There must be something worse for Joran to still be left holding the bag on a missing girl. There have been plenty of people to blame. Yet, none stick.

After flying from Holland (9 hours minimum) and then gallivanting all over the casino floor. As many of us have said for well over two years - Paulus has the most to lose. Some prove to me Paulus is somewhere else other than next to Natalee on that Casino tape.

Once the Aruban Authorities decided to insulate Paulus - it was out of his hands. He may not have even participated in any of the under-handed frame job of the security guards, but he knew what was happening. And that "F'in' Mother" screwed that all up.

If I had a son and he was last seen with the missing person, I would call work the next day and call off and help to look for her. Paulus does NOT! Infact, I would ask all of my colleagues to help also.

So it will remain Joran until someone is enabled to pin Paulus down. Godfather Peter R should have went after Paulus. It would have taken more time as Paulus is downright diabolical and smarter than the Goon-Child, but that's where the investigation should be focused.

I have never seen a case where a suspect with no alibi is NOT the focus.

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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #687 on: March 22, 2008, 10:00:29 AM »

Good Morning,

*******, TJ Ward told me that FBI got interested in Paul Brough and his phone records because of posters on the net. They did not know of him previously. The FBI then subpoenaed his records.

Who is the fifth suspect? To me, this is Paulus. It has to be in my opinion.

I believe Grande is correct and Clyde Burke is Simian and had access to the PVs hot off the presses and he participated in some of them. As we all know there are PVs that have not seen the light of day. It would be possible that Paulus or Joran said there was a small party a their house and Clyde Burke had intimate knowledge of that specific PV. This is also another reason to steer the crime scene away from the Sloot house of horrors.

It does not make it a fact, but it could be possible that Paulus discovered he needed an alibi when he was discovered on that casino video after he claimed to have left. A small party could have been his first line of deceit. He could have then realized that was not going to work and there would be questions for that people attending this small party.

Then Paulus shifts or changes his statement to insulate himself and involves Sebastian. A reason for involving Sebastian could be that he did not think Sebastian would be questioned due to his age and family relationship. That would have then shifted any questioning to the Zeollas*.

Again, just theory here, but possible.


Good Morning Rob and everyone else.

Rob I agree with everything you said.  Especially the part of Paulus involving Sebastian.

Only thing here, the people at this "party" are the ones that provided the alibi.  I don't think Sebastian is the alibi.  He would be too young and Simian indicates more that one person..."party goers".  I have considered just about every person on planet earth as the 5th suspect...but the pieces have to fit and I do mean all the pieces.  As I have said, to make Paulus fit...he has to be the host of a party...now, grant you, I agree it could just be a a few friends over for a drink...which is not too far fetched...until you realize that he was at the casino later than he said.  Some pieces fit...others don't. 

Keep in mind that there are those...won't name names...that think Paulus is both the 5th suspect and Dirty Hand...just more to think about.  I won't because it always gets me in trouble. 
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #688 on: March 22, 2008, 10:04:55 AM »

Good morning and happy Easter Monkey's.
I found this post at RWV by following a link from the mr pink thread here at SM's.Also in the same thread at RWV,last post by a Glenda....when I mouse over the link with her name it reads"Glenda Croes"....thought that was interesting and confusing at the same time Smile

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From the arub resident, clarifying the TWO other people of interest in the case: LORENZO was the man questioned last night who is characterized as crazy and whose father commited suicide..this SGC person taken in today *************************

OK im so sorry for mixign this up...its just i have liek 30 people on my back at the same time and im at work answerign the phone! LOl
ok the Boy taht hsi father commited suicide (Lorenzo is his name) he was arrrested YESTERDAY...the one of TODAY (SGC) i have not been confirmed a name yet...but i dont know who his parents are

*************************

Posted by: Marin | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 10:59 AM




Thanks Karma!  I was in the Shango thread looking for this...it's there somewhere, but I could not find it.  Lorenzo fits parts, again, and then doesn't fit others.  We pretty much think he had parties...of course he would be the host.  He would have to provide an alibi...which he did and we even hear one was his girlfriend...which we have never seen evidence of as yet.  However, some things are still missing...his meeting Natalee in the casino.  I am still waiting for that confirmation.   

BTW, I am posting some of these ideas in Shango later today...all theories welcome is my philosophy.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #689 on: March 22, 2008, 10:08:20 AM »

San and Buckeye,
Doesn't what you (San) agree to and Buckeye (your post above) point directly at Paulus? How could it not? He is still the person without the alibi. As Buckeye indicates - There must be something worse for Joran to still be left holding the bag on a missing girl. There have been plenty of people to blame. Yet, none stick.

After flying from Holland (9 hours minimum) and then gallivanting all over the casino floor. As many of us have said for well over two years - Paulus has the most to lose. Some prove to me Paulus is somewhere else other than next to Natalee on that Casino tape.

Once the Aruban Authorities decided to insulate Paulus - it was out of his hands. He may not have even participated in any of the under-handed frame job of the security guards, but he knew what was happening. And that "F'in' Mother" screwed that all up.

If I had a son and he was last seen with the missing person, I would call work the next day and call off and help to look for her. Paulus does NOT! Infact, I would ask all of my colleagues to help also.

So it will remain Joran until someone is enabled to pin Paulus down. Godfather Peter R should have went after Paulus. It would have taken more time as Paulus is downright diabolical and smarter than the Goon-Child, but that's where the investigation should be focused.

I have never seen a case where a suspect with no alibi is NOT the focus.



The 5th person has an alibi...so tight...so tight. Remember?  If Paulus did not have one..then it can not be him...just saying...don't throw things in my direction.  It's your words...not mine.   
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #690 on: March 22, 2008, 10:10:35 AM »

For Paulus to be the 5th suspect...does not say 5th man arrested...he has to have hosted a small party at his house the night Natalee disappeared and he has to have had an alibi given for him by the people attending this small party.  I want to see this proof.  I so want to eliminate this 5th suspect. 

Did it actually say at his house or are we assuming that because he was the host???

People can host parties AWAY from home.


Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “there whole time”.


I recall some recent posts discussing the VDS compound.  It was a simple Aruban style dwelling with walkways connecting the rooms instead of walls.  Further, IIRC, the poster suggested that there was maybe 15 feet between the parents bed room and Joran's room.  Thus, a simple party would be known to all within the compound, the neighbors, and certainly the father.  jmho

If not in Joran's romm/apt., what of the other dwelling, the one I've seen identified as Anita's studio?  Would that have been a party place of choice?  It was near the monkey cage.  Would a studio have good lighting?
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« Reply #691 on: March 22, 2008, 10:11:45 AM »

Hi Lalasmom,

I'm not gonna try and hammer a square peg into a round hole, but in Paulus' circle would be more people in the Justice System. If Simian says that the party goers are his alibi, I would think there might not even be official statements. Their word would just be accepted as fact. Of course taking into account there would have been actual statements or interviews.

If Ben Voc / King says no search - well, one can imagine what he would say to help his friend even if there was a tape of Voc / King playing cards in another casino that would discredit his statement and Paulus' alibi.

For some reason people are willing to wreck an economy and the livelihoods of everyone on Aruba. In the beginning I thought it would be just to protect tourism and Oduber flying back from Fort Lauderdale on 6-9-2005 kind of indicates that, but at some point you could logically think it's time to just get this over with and expose Paulus and move on. No such luck here. Why?

People are willing to destroy everything to make sure Paulus stay insulated. Political careers and reputations are on the line. Paulus holding a ton of dirt on EVERYONE makes no sense. He's not omni-potent.

At some point you just toss Paulus overboard and move on.
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« Reply #692 on: March 22, 2008, 10:19:10 AM »

When Paulus's good friends ( Vocking?; Gottenbos?) found out that Paulus (or Val) left the house to pick up Joran (how early did the OM know about the 4am thing; we found out later, but maybe they knew early); perhaps the good friends offered to give Paulus an alibi by saying they were at his house....and therefore no need for a search of main house....they would have seen something.  They all knew what was needed (all connected to OM and justice) to get out of "legal" trouble.

My other thought is Freddy..of course.

and then there is Koen +.  Was there a simple party after the Sunday boating??  It would reason that more than Joran were invited on the boat.

I still think Joran and his family would put "doubt" in peoples' minds about Joran being alone with Natalee.  They tried to have him implicate K2 by saying they dropped him off first, etc.; Anita implying "adults" (which I always felt was a threat to the "older" Kalpos) were there.  There were so many lies because the only thing worse than Joran being alone was saying who he was really with.  Otherwise, Anita would have thrown the perp under the bus long ago.

Didn't Paulus say something about having nightmares that they would come arrest Anita or one of the children?  How bizarre, if you believe your kid to be innocent....

Paulus or Val were involved and Anita was called immediately.  Either Joran called her to complain of Paulus or Paulus called her to complain of Joran.
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« Reply #693 on: March 22, 2008, 10:19:24 AM »

Hi Lalasmom,

I'm not gonna try and hammer a square peg into a round hole, but in Paulus' circle would be more people in the Justice System. If Simian says that the party goers are his alibi, I would think there might not even be official statements. Their word would just be accepted as fact. Of course taking into account there would have been actual statements or interviews.

If Ben Voc / King says no search - well, one can imagine what he would say to help his friend even if there was a tape of Voc / King playing cards in another casino that would discredit his statement and Paulus' alibi.

For some reason people are willing to wreck an economy and the livelihoods of everyone on Aruba. In the beginning I thought it would be just to protect tourism and Oduber flying back from Fort Lauderdale on 6-9-2005 kind of indicates that, but at some point you could logically think it's time to just get this over with and expose Paulus and move on. No such luck here. Why?

People are willing to destroy everything to make sure Paulus stay insulated. Political careers and reputations are on the line. Paulus holding a ton of dirt on EVERYONE makes no sense. He's not omni-potent.

At some point you just toss Paulus overboard and move on.

I don't disagree with your theory at all...remember I was the one that said KJ could have been his alibi.  I would just like to see all the pieces fall into place and the one that doesn't for me is the "boyfriend" reference.  Now I know it seems that term is used loosely with Simian and given that he could indeed mean Paulus.  Thing is, I just don't see Paulus so jealous of Joran that he would kill Natalee.  Yes, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt here for a moment.  Of course, that would take you to the dirty old men's club theory and picking out young innocent girls and all the other stuff.  I have been down this road before and it is a scary place to me.  I do not want to think that Anita really knew about what they did to young girls...I do not want to think that there are other victims out there and so forth.  I guess it's the mother in me that doesn't want to accept the fact that Paulus was the person...but I will if I have to.  I am just pointing out what has to fit to make it work.  Sorry, if I upset anyone with my insistence to details.
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« Reply #694 on: March 22, 2008, 10:22:50 AM »

Even if there are a ton of others involved, I believe the majority of the people following the case would gladly accept Paulus, Joran, and the Kalpoe Bros are the guilty parasites.

Everyone could move on, Aruba could begin luring a new group of unsuspecting gullible tourists to their hellhole and everyone would be placated.

If it ever got to a trial and Joran started naming names - so what - he always lies anyway. I don't believe anyone would be sweating more than Paulus.
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« Reply #695 on: March 22, 2008, 10:27:39 AM »

San and Buckeye,
Doesn't what you (San) agree to and Buckeye (your post above) point directly at Paulus? How could it not? He is still the person without the alibi. As Buckeye indicates - There must be something worse for Joran to still be left holding the bag on a missing girl. There have been plenty of people to blame. Yet, none stick.

After flying from Holland (9 hours minimum) and then gallivanting all over the casino floor. As many of us have said for well over two years - Paulus has the most to lose. Some prove to me Paulus is somewhere else other than next to Natalee on that Casino tape.

Once the Aruban Authorities decided to insulate Paulus - it was out of his hands. He may not have even participated in any of the under-handed frame job of the security guards, but he knew what was happening. And that "F'in' Mother" screwed that all up.

If I had a son and he was last seen with the missing person, I would call work the next day and call off and help to look for her. Paulus does NOT! Infact, I would ask all of my colleagues to help also.

So it will remain Joran until someone is enabled to pin Paulus down. Godfather Peter R should have went after Paulus. It would have taken more time as Paulus is downright diabolical and smarter than the Goon-Child, but that's where the investigation should be focused.

I have never seen a case where a suspect with no alibi is NOT the focus.



The 5th person has an alibi...so tight...so tight. Remember?  If Paulus did not have one..then it can not be him...just saying...don't throw things in my direction.  It's your words...not mine.   

Acccckkkkkkkkkkk!!!!....am heading off for the day...so, am tossing this on the fire....The 5th person has an alibi...so tight...so tight...I would even consider...*Anita*....the stories of who went where with her...don't add up...carry on Monkeys Wink
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« Reply #696 on: March 22, 2008, 10:27:53 AM »

Hi Lalasmom,

I'm not gonna try and hammer a square peg into a round hole, but in Paulus' circle would be more people in the Justice System. If Simian says that the party goers are his alibi, I would think there might not even be official statements. Their word would just be accepted as fact. Of course taking into account there would have been actual statements or interviews.

If Ben Voc / King says no search - well, one can imagine what he would say to help his friend even if there was a tape of Voc / King playing cards in another casino that would discredit his statement and Paulus' alibi.

For some reason people are willing to wreck an economy and the livelihoods of everyone on Aruba. In the beginning I thought it would be just to protect tourism and Oduber flying back from Fort Lauderdale on 6-9-2005 kind of indicates that, but at some point you could logically think it's time to just get this over with and expose Paulus and move on. No such luck here. Why?

People are willing to destroy everything to make sure Paulus stay insulated. Political careers and reputations are on the line. Paulus holding a ton of dirt on EVERYONE makes no sense. He's not omni-potent.

At some point you just toss Paulus overboard and move on.

Exactly.  What is keeping Joran, Paulus and the Kalpoes alive.

Is Paulus' alibi really tight.  In my mind it isn't but could it be in Simian's mind that it seems tight.  Is it because he knows that they will never question the youngest son so that makes his alibi tight.

Was Paulus the one having the "party" and what I mean by party is a few friends over.  Did Joran know this and also bring Natalee there because he knew he father would be loaded and not give a shit and hell he might even want to participate.  Are the people at this party really the ones being protected.

From the beginning Beth and Jug have always said the three boys and the father.

I forgot what Jug said about Paulus in his interview on Dana but basically he said Paulus was evil.

PAULUS IS A MURDERER
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #697 on: March 22, 2008, 10:32:56 AM »

When Paulus's good friends ( Vocking?; Gottenbos?) found out that Paulus (or Val) left the house to pick up Joran (how early did the OM know about the 4am thing; we found out later, but maybe they knew early); perhaps the good friends offered to give Paulus an alibi by saying they were at his house....and therefore no need for a search of main house....they would have seen something.  They all knew what was needed (all connected to OM and justice) to get out of "legal" trouble.

My other thought is Freddy..of course.

and then there is Koen +.  Was there a simple party after the Sunday boating??  It would reason that more than Joran were invited on the boat.

I still think Joran and his family would put "doubt" in peoples' minds about Joran being alone with Natalee.  They tried to have him implicate K2 by saying they dropped him off first, etc.; Anita implying "adults" (which I always felt was a threat to the "older" Kalpos) were there.  There were so many lies because the only thing worse than Joran being alone was saying who he was really with.  Otherwise, Anita would have thrown the perp under the bus long ago.

Didn't Paulus say something about having nightmares that they would come arrest Anita or one of the children?  How bizarre, if you believe your kid to be innocent....

Paulus or Val were involved and Anita was called immediately.  Either Joran called her to complain of Paulus or Paulus called her to complain of Joran.


Buckeye
…there may be something lost in the translation here?….Or not?


http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/joran610.htm


Joran’s 6/10 PV

To you question as to whether I am under treatment from a doctor, I answer you that I am not. I am being treated by a dentist because I have toothache. I am also under treatment of a psychologist. This because I felt bad about the fact that the girl had gone missing. Before the girl went missing I was also under treatment of a psychologist. This was because I had taken 50 euros from my father, and also took money from my mother.  And I used my brother's mobile phone without asking for permission, and after that I broke the chip from his mobile phone. I also once fought with my brother in Miami but we are good friends now. My brother is 15 years old and his name is "Valentijn". He is the one I would like to talk to.
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Rob
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« Reply #698 on: March 22, 2008, 10:33:52 AM »

San, in the real world, we you and I live, we can accept that "something bad happened" and it involved people Natalee's age.

Throw in a man of 50 years and it goes into an area where most of us just don't want to believe or accept. It's just all too much to wrap your mind around and gets people extremely upset. This would indicate an actual animal was working in the Justice Dept. That would have far reaching implication - in my opinion.

The Aruba Authorities understand that aspect. They get that loud and clear.
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Truth, Justice and the American Way.

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~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
Rob
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« Reply #699 on: March 22, 2008, 10:44:45 AM »

Also, Maybe Janet has the statement from Beth where she said - "No, that's no him, that's an old man."

I believe this is said because someone (from the Authorities) was confused about who they were looking for. The person pointing at Paulus must have seen him on the casino tape thought they were actually looking for Paulus and NOT Joran at that point.
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Truth, Justice and the American Way.

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~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
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