Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 - 3/25/08

[San]

San, in the real world, we you and I live, we can accept that "something bad happened" and it involved people Natalee's age.

Throw in a man of 50 years and it goes into an area where most of us just don't want to believe or accept. It's just all too much to wrap your mind around and gets people extremely upset. This would indicate an actual animal was working in the Justice Dept. That would have far reaching implication - in my opinion.

The Aruba Authorities understand that aspect. They get that loud and clear.

Rob, I agree that it is very upsetting to think about.  We are not the trained professionals who deal with this stuff every day and their minds can go there and they can call it a day and go home.  Unfortunately we don't like to hear about the possibility of what Paulus could have done.

This case has revealed that Aruba has many many animals working in the Justice Department not just a waste of life 52 year old Paulus Van der Sloot.

[WhiskeyGirl]

I think that some people in society want everyone to feel good.  Nothing bad happens, we don't want to hurt peoples feelings or self esteem, no one fails academically, and there should never be negative consequences for bad behavior.

Good, bad, or other, young people emulate those around them.  Those around them include music videos, family, politicians, etc.  If they see no accountability for what some perceive is bad behavior, what have they learned?  Is there any behavior that warrants negative consequences? 

What is the lasting lesson from this case? 

~ No body/no case, no witness/no case ~

[Rob]

San, in the real world, we you and I live, we can accept that "something bad happened" and it involved people Natalee's age.

Throw in a man of 50 years and it goes into an area where most of us just don't want to believe or accept. It's just all too much to wrap your mind around and gets people extremely upset. This would indicate an actual animal was working in the Justice Dept. That would have far reaching implication - in my opinion.

The Aruba Authorities understand that aspect. They get that loud and clear.

Rob, I agree that it is very upsetting to think about.  We are not the trained professionals who deal with this stuff every day and their minds can go there and they can call it a day and go home.  Unfortunately we don't like to hear about the possibility of what Paulus could have done.

This case has revealed that Aruba has many many animals working in the Justice Department not just a waste of life 52 year old Paulus Van der Sloot.

Right San, it's part of the human psyche. It protects you and me and everyone from the evil that lurks. It can unfortunately lead someone unsuspecting into danger. Most people do not fantasize about rape, murder, and mayhem. I would imagine this is a very very small portion of society and hopefully they are identified early before they can create hell on Earth.

We have a part of out mind that is geared toward harmony and not toward creating havoc. There are some truly demonic individuals out there and in a way our minds and subconscious is not totally equipped to deal with them.

Harmony creates a productive soceity where the common good is place in the fore-front.

One can only guess what model Aruba is using.

[KarmaRoundUp]

Found this at RWV........
Written by Flipping Dan:

Croes Arrested In Holloway Disappearance
 Steven (Seferino) G.Croes, 26 has now been identified as the fourth suspect arrested in this case. Image courtesy of Scared Monkeys.

A reader, Mike, sends along (link removed, not the same individual) to an Amazon.com book review by Steve Croes. It is not confirmed that this is the same individual as was arrested today.

Friday, June 17, 2005 at 02:42 PM in Natalee Holloway | Permalink | Comments (491) | TrackBack (0)

[San]

I think that some people in society want everyone to feel good.  Nothing bad happens, we don't want to hurt peoples feelings or self esteem, no one fails academically, and there should never be negative consequences for bad behavior.

Good, bad, or other, young people emulate those around them.  Those around them include music videos, family, politicians, etc.  If they see no accountability for what some perceive is bad behavior, what have they learned?  Is there any behavior that warrants negative consequences? 

What is the lasting lesson from this case? 

~ No body/no case, no witness/no case ~

That line has stuck in everyone's mind for almost three years now and you are right.

[KarmaRoundUp]

Good morning and happy Easter Monkey's.
I found this post at RWV by following a link from the mr pink thread here at SM's.Also in the same thread at RWV,last post by a Glenda....when I mouse over the link with her name it reads"Glenda Croes"....thought that was interesting and confusing at the same time
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From the arub resident, clarifying the TWO other people of interest in the case: LORENZO was the man questioned last night who is characterized as crazy and whose father commited suicide..this SGC person taken in today *************************

OK im so sorry for mixign this up...its just i have liek 30 people on my back at the same time and im at work answerign the phone! LOl
ok the Boy taht hsi father commited suicide (Lorenzo is his name) he was arrrested YESTERDAY...the one of TODAY (SGC) i have not been confirmed a name yet...but i dont know who his parents are

*************************

Posted by: Marin | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 10:59 AM

Thanks Karma!  I was in the Shango thread looking for this...it's there somewhere, but I could not find it.  Lorenzo fits parts, again, and then doesn't fit others.  We pretty much think he had parties...of course he would be the host.  He would have to provide an alibi...which he did and we even hear one was his girlfriend...which we have never seen evidence of as yet.  However, some things are still missing...his meeting Natalee in the casino.  I am still waiting for that confirmation.   

BTW, I am posting some of these ideas in Shango later today...all theories welcome is my philosophy.

Hi Lala's
I don't shango but admire you all that do.

[KarmaRoundUp]

For Paulus to be the 5th suspect...does not say 5th man arrested...he has to have hosted a small party at his house the night Natalee disappeared and he has to have had an alibi given for him by the people attending this small party.  I want to see this proof.  I so want to eliminate this 5th suspect. 

Did it actually say at his house or are we assuming that because he was the host???

People can host parties AWAY from home.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “there whole time”.

I recall some recent posts discussing the VDS compound.  It was a simple Aruban style dwelling with walkways connecting the rooms instead of walls.  Further, IIRC, the poster suggested that there was maybe 15 feet between the parents bed room and Joran's room.  Thus, a simple party would be known to all within the compound, the neighbors, and certainly the father.  jmho

If not in Joran's romm/apt., what of the other dwelling, the one I've seen identified as Anita's studio?  Would that have been a party place of choice?  It was near the monkey cage.  Would a studio have good lighting?

I didn't know anita had a separate dwelling for her art......maybe in the main living quarters?Shoot,they could have had a party at the next door neighbors,the ones who were said to be out of town....owners of the monkey in the cage in the backyard.

[San]

San, in the real world, we you and I live, we can accept that "something bad happened" and it involved people Natalee's age.

Throw in a man of 50 years and it goes into an area where most of us just don't want to believe or accept. It's just all too much to wrap your mind around and gets people extremely upset. This would indicate an actual animal was working in the Justice Dept. That would have far reaching implication - in my opinion.

The Aruba Authorities understand that aspect. They get that loud and clear.

Rob, I agree that it is very upsetting to think about.  We are not the trained professionals who deal with this stuff every day and their minds can go there and they can call it a day and go home.  Unfortunately we don't like to hear about the possibility of what Paulus could have done.

This case has revealed that Aruba has many many animals working in the Justice Department not just a waste of life 52 year old Paulus Van der Sloot.

Right San, it's part of the human psyche. It protects you and me and everyone from the evil that lurks. It can unfortunately lead someone unsuspecting into danger. Most people do not fantasize about rape, murder, and mayhem. I would imagine this is a very very small portion of society and hopefully they are identified early before they can create hell on Earth.

We have a part of out mind that is geared toward harmony and not toward creating havoc. There are some truly demonic individuals out there and in a way our minds and subconscious is not totally equipped to deal with them.

Harmony creates a productive soceity where the common good is place in the fore-front.

One can only guess what model Aruba is using.

This is why I say shoot everyone and call it a day and in my mind I can deal with this and lose no sleep at all because we are getting rid of monsters who no longer deserve to live on this earth.

[Rob]

This is why I say shoot everyone and call it a day and in my mind I can deal with this and lose no sleep at all because we are getting rid of monsters who no longer deserve to live on this earth.

I agree. How many times have you heard after a person was apprehended a family member say - well, he has some screws loose. Very rarely do you hear a person was totally normal. If you hear that - it's time to evaluate the family member. 

[KarmaRoundUp]

Hi Lalasmom,

I'm not gonna try and hammer a square peg into a round hole, but in Paulus' circle would be more people in the Justice System. If Simian says that the party goers are his alibi, I would think there might not even be official statements. Their word would just be accepted as fact. Of course taking into account there would have been actual statements or interviews.

If Ben Voc / King says no search - well, one can imagine what he would say to help his friend even if there was a tape of Voc / King playing cards in another casino that would discredit his statement and Paulus' alibi.

For some reason people are willing to wreck an economy and the livelihoods of everyone on Aruba. In the beginning I thought it would be just to protect tourism and Oduber flying back from Fort Lauderdale on 6-9-2005 kind of indicates that, but at some point you could logically think it's time to just get this over with and expose Paulus and move on. No such luck here. Why?

People are willing to destroy everything to make sure Paulus stay insulated. Political careers and reputations are on the line. Paulus holding a ton of dirt on EVERYONE makes no sense. He's not omni-potent.

At some point you just toss Paulus overboard and move on.

I think they haven't done that to paulus because paulus can expose the true underbelly of aruba....money laundering,profits from illegal drug trade and supplying clean monies to other countries that are against the USA.Beth mentions this in her book.

[San]

This is why I say shoot everyone and call it a day and in my mind I can deal with this and lose no sleep at all because we are getting rid of monsters who no longer deserve to live on this earth.

I agree. How many times have you heard after a person was apprehended a family member say - well, he has some screws loose. Very rarely do you hear a person was totally normal. If you hear that - it's time to evaluate the family member. 

Enter Anita Van der Sloot 

[Rob]

I think they haven't done that to paulus because paulus can expose the true underbelly of aruba....money laundering,profits from illegal drug trade and supplying clean monies to other countries that are against the USA.Beth mentions this in her book.

Hi Karma,
but it's all been out there for a while now. Unless, of course, there is something not yet discovered. Aruba has everything a criminal cherishes. I can't imagine there is one more vice we haven't found that would make Aruba even more embarrassed. JMO

[Rob]

This is why I say shoot everyone and call it a day and in my mind I can deal with this and lose no sleep at all because we are getting rid of monsters who no longer deserve to live on this earth.

I agree. How many times have you heard after a person was apprehended a family member say - well, he has some screws loose. Very rarely do you hear a person was totally normal. If you hear that - it's time to evaluate the family member. 

Enter Anita Van der Sloot 

  he's just a normal boy. With a history of drugging and raping girls, stealing, lying to everyone, pursing in casinos, drinking with a VIP card, and bigotry. Sooooooo delicious.

[Kat_Gram]

Hi Rob, and the rest of the Monkeys today...
I think they are all protecting themselves.Rob, are you cooking a turkey this weekend ? LOL I still laff about that one.

[San]

Hi Rob, and the rest of the Monkeys today...
I think they are all protecting themselves.Rob, are you cooking a turkey this weekend ? LOL I still laff about that one.

Could be Kat_Gram the list is long.

[Rob]

Hi Rob, and the rest of the Monkeys today...
I think they are all protecting themselves.Rob, are you cooking a turkey this weekend ? LOL I still laff about that one.

Hi Kat_Gram... LOL... I am not allowed to cook a turkey.. and I moved from the house with the stove that malfunctioned. The new owner has probably discovered that little gem is one heck of a turkey baker..LOL

if you need an oven that locks and will cook uninterrupted for days on end - that's the oven for you!!!

It was more like a kiln than an oven.

[Rob]

Hi Rob, and the rest of the Monkeys today...
I think they are all protecting themselves.Rob, are you cooking a turkey this weekend ? LOL I still laff about that one.

Hi Kat_Gram... LOL... I am not allowed to cook a turkey.. and I moved from the house with the stove that malfunctioned. The new owner has probably discovered that little gem is one heck of a turkey baker..LOL

if you need an oven that locks and will cook uninterrupted for days on end - that's the oven for you!!!

It was more like a kiln than an oven.

O/T but we have a new person in the neighborhood and she was here for about 5 days when the fire department show-up with all the trucks and the sirens blaring. Seems she left a pizza in the oven and left the house forgetting she had put it in the oven....man, were they pissed off! 

[Destiny]

I think they haven't done that to paulus because paulus can expose the true underbelly of aruba....money laundering,profits from illegal drug trade and supplying clean monies to other countries that are against the USA.Beth mentions this in her book.

Hi Karma,
but it's all been out there for a while now. Unless, of course, there is something not yet discovered. Aruba has everything a criminal cherishes. I can't imagine there is one more vice we haven't found that would make Aruba even more embarrassed. JMO

Ah...Rob....the only other *vice* that could be exposed...secret...members only.....*elders* society.
ugly little spin-off of the Masons...

Really am running out the door now....HAPPY EASTER ALL!!!

[Rob]

I think they haven't done that to paulus because paulus can expose the true underbelly of aruba....money laundering,profits from illegal drug trade and supplying clean monies to other countries that are against the USA.Beth mentions this in her book.

Hi Karma,
but it's all been out there for a while now. Unless, of course, there is something not yet discovered. Aruba has everything a criminal cherishes. I can't imagine there is one more vice we haven't found that would make Aruba even more embarrassed. JMO

Ah...Rob....the only other *vice* that could be exposed...secret...members only.....*elders* society.
ugly little spin-off of the Masons...

Really am running out the door now....HAPPY EASTER ALL!!!

Happy Easter to you to Karma.
I give this some credence. And here's why. We all know it exists and the Diario did a story on Child Porn on Aruba, unfortunately Jossy did not release part two of the story which was supposed to name names.

[jackb]

OK. I have a question...what night was it that GVC groped Natalee?  Was it in CnC's?  What night was it that Natalee had to escorted back to her hotel room because she was so woozy? TIA

From Pelham meeting, October 28, 2006.  Posted at BFN.

General Questions and Answers - Answers provided by Beth, Dave and Art Wood

snipped...

9.  Is there a Blue Eyed Dutch Boy?  NO, there is no blue eyed Dutch boy. 

10.  Association with GVC?  NO association with him except on the 27th at C & C's he slapped her on the rear.

GVC never caught my notice as being involved.  I put him in the same category as Michael Dompig.  They are family of case related people.  Perhaps their involvement is to keep the case related people quiet.  mo

I remember reading posts of pro-Joran posters linking GVC to all kinds of things, implying he was +++++++ or autistic, was a danger in every place he worked, impulsive, etc.  I see him as a diversion character.

I also remember reading about some kind of threat to Michael Dompig, that someone would implicate him.  I think that was a warning to his father.  Perhaps the father of GVC is a greater risk to the house of cards, and therefore his son got arrested.  I wonder if the GVC family wishes they never moved to "One Happy Island"?  jmho

Whiskey

I agree with your take on GVC.  If he had been involved, Joran would have never admitted to being the last with Natalee.  The risk is being the last one with someone that disappears (according to Arlene, early on).  As soon as someone was mentioned, that could have an implication, after "the beach" drop off, the disinformation team was running. The reason for the HI lie was to keep Joran from being alone with a missing person.  Either Joran was alone with Natalee or he was with family or another powerful person or the story would have been "we" left her on the road, after the party.  To protect Joran, there would have been no hesitation to implicate any other kid. The fact that Joran's story ends up with him "alone" with Natalee tells me that there are worse ramifications for him not to be alone.  The only thing "worse" that I can figure out is his father (and perhaps father's friends) implication.

 

If this was, what you are saying a fact, then explain why there is no video tapes to support who was where.  I contend that:  GVC had motive, means and opportunity to corral this girl and "make an example" of her for rejecting him.  He was in the middle of this, I will believe until someone clears the air of this.  Those Cromvroits have the pull, the money and are being silenced by the others involved because their son (at least) has serious involvement in this, most likely.  No one could know her every movement as well as someone who has access to HI videotapes and the opportunity to manipulate the photo in them and try to eliminate faces of perps who are on these videos.  It has been a group effort on their part.  No couple of kids could have pulled off this 3-year obliteration of evidence, failure to prosecute, and been allowed the freedom of movement these young perps have without some serious adult help.  If more than one family was not involved with this and/or was not being blackmailed into assisting, someone would have talked to keep their own kids from going through the mud.  Jack b.