Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 - 3/25/08

[Pita]

             
                         

     
                                 

[Auntiem]

   GMBW,  I am pretty sure Tacopina  is NOT working pro-bono, and his services come with a very high price tag!!

   Something that has always bothered me concerns whether or not the two younger Sloot brothers were on Aruba or in Holland at the time Natalee disappeared.  It is certainly a fact, one way or the other, whether or not they were on the plane from Holland, landing the following day.  Why can't confirmation from the Air Line be obtained????


      I also agree with the above poster who stated that Joran's story regarding Daury is a fantasy.  Or a very "sanitized" version.  No one comes to a beach, to help a friend, looks at an otherwise "fine" looking girl, passed out, and says, "Oh, she's dead!  OK, go home. I'll get my boat (hmm, BTW, did he arrive by boat? car?), and get rid of her.  Oh, and btw, act like nothing happened tomorrow! Go to school!"

    Is this supposed to be the first time a girl had a reaction to one of Joran's "potions" and passed out?

       He no more "panicked" when Natalee  passed out than he was "afraid his girlfriend would find out" or "he was ashamed his father would find out he left a girl on the beach".

[texasmom]

Innocent people don't lie. They cooperate with the police.
Innocent people don't lawyer up themselves and their friends from the get go.

I still can't fathom how the Sloots can afford all those attorneys. 

  The ones whose children are involved are making sure there are lawyers because if one falls, they all will...the adults who have covered this thing up as well.
It is being covered as well by the casinos who have lawyers on retainer, most likely because they served minors, their employee(s) may have been involved and made the decision to be involved while working as NH was there when (Guido) was, etc.
They have it all covered and that is one reason why it fits that adults were involved even deeper than the coverup.  This may not be the first time this has happened.  Looks to me like those working on Monday would be preparting to go to work or to school.  This surely says a lot about where the Aruban taxes are going.
Jack b

And maybe a couple of lawyers are willing to work for free in this case...the publicity is always there.

from the transcript of JVDS & Patrick:

What the f*** do you want?

Give me enough f***ing money, so I can buy a house in Spain.
We already filed a claim for compensation.
That had to be done within a month.
My father has arranged all that.
There are enough lawyers that are willing to help my father.

[texasmom]

Have we learned anything new in the last two weeks? Can you say case gone cold?

I don't know anything about what's going on with the investigation on Aruba but I did hear from a reliable source that Peter R. de Vries is working on a couple of interesting things at this very moment. That doesn't say much but at least someone is working on it . After the show there were a lot of tips of course and to figure out which ones are serious is difficult...and then do the research on those who are credible...it takes time. And it may not work out in the end. Also, this case isn't the only case for Peter R. de Vries and his team; his show also starts again soon so I think he's also working on those cases as well (of course).
Sooner or later the ALE will have to give some statement about what's going on.

  Sounds good to me!  Peter DeVries rocks! 

[Magnolia]

Innocent people don't lie. They cooperate with the police.
Innocent people don't lawyer up themselves and their friends from the get go.

I still can't fathom how the Sloots can afford all those attorneys. 

  The ones whose children are involved are making sure there are lawyers because if one falls, they all will...the adults who have covered this thing up as well.
It is being covered as well by the casinos who have lawyers on retainer, most likely because they served minors, their employee(s) may have been involved and made the decision to be involved while working as NH was there when (Guido) was, etc.
They have it all covered and that is one reason why it fits that adults were involved even deeper than the coverup.  This may not be the first time this has happened.  Looks to me like those working on Monday would be preparting to go to work or to school.  This surely says a lot about where the Aruban taxes are going.
Jack b

And maybe a couple of lawyers are willing to work for free in this case...the publicity is always there.

from the transcript of JVDS & Patrick:

What the f*** do you want?

Give me enough f***ing money, so I can buy a house in Spain.
We already filed a claim for compensation.
That had to be done within a month.
My father has arranged all that.
There are enough lawyers that are willing to help my father.

I think within the legal profession, lawyers usually work for another
lawyer without charging a fee.  It is the same with doctors.
It is a professional service.
Lawyers don't charge other lawyers and doctors don't charge other
doctors.

[klaasend]

Happy Easter all!

I've created a separate forum for Shango/Simian and other codetalkers:


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?board=29.0

[Nut44x4]

http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=679&st=140
"There is no proof that Melanie McGuire murdered her husband," said the defense attorney, Joseph Tacopina. "This case is a result of a tragic rush to judgment. They saw what they wanted to see. They heard what they wanted to hear."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18688528/page/5/
But her defense attorney, Joe Tacopina, says investigators had gotten it wrong. That they had zeroed in on Melanie McGuire from the start, focusing on evidence that incriminated her and disregarding other leads.


Sound eerily familiar? So much of what he said w/ Melanie's case mirror's what he has said about Joran. Broken record....

[jackb]

Innocent people don't lie. They cooperate with the police.
Innocent people don't lawyer up themselves and their friends from the get go.

I still can't fathom how the Sloots can afford all those attorneys. 

Friends in high places, the so called higher powers??

It makes one wonder what Paulus has on those friends in high places to warrant such a coverup.

  Perhaps the fact that some of their kids were involved as well would be my guess about the "friends in high places."

[GBMW]

   GMBW,  I am pretty sure Tacopina  is NOT working pro-bono, and his services come with a very high price tag!!

   Something that has always bothered me concerns whether or not the two younger Sloot brothers were on Aruba or in Holland at the time Natalee disappeared.  It is certainly a fact, one way or the other, whether or not they were on the plane from Holland, landing the following day.  Why can't confirmation from the Air Line be obtained????


      I also agree with the above poster who stated that Joran's story regarding Daury is a fantasy.  Or a very "sanitized" version.  No one comes to a beach, to help a friend, looks at an otherwise "fine" looking girl, passed out, and says, "Oh, she's dead!  OK, go home. I'll get my boat (hmm, BTW, did he arrive by boat? car?), and get rid of her.  Oh, and btw, act like nothing happened tomorrow! Go to school!"

    Is this supposed to be the first time a girl had a reaction to one of Joran's "potions" and passed out?

       He no more "panicked" when Natalee  passed out than he was "afraid his girlfriend would find out" or "he was ashamed his father would find out he left a girl on the beach".

I do remember an e-mail that Joran sent to a website informing them that some kind of fund had been opened to 'sponsor' Tacopina in Jorans case. Maybe the lawyers in Aruba are doing it for free / at a low price right now  because Paulus is working at that lawfirm.

[klaasend]

   GMBW,  I am pretty sure Tacopina  is NOT working pro-bono, and his services come with a very high price tag!!

   Something that has always bothered me concerns whether or not the two younger Sloot brothers were on Aruba or in Holland at the time Natalee disappeared.  It is certainly a fact, one way or the other, whether or not they were on the plane from Holland, landing the following day.  Why can't confirmation from the Air Line be obtained????


      I also agree with the above poster who stated that Joran's story regarding Daury is a fantasy.  Or a very "sanitized" version.  No one comes to a beach, to help a friend, looks at an otherwise "fine" looking girl, passed out, and says, "Oh, she's dead!  OK, go home. I'll get my boat (hmm, BTW, did he arrive by boat? car?), and get rid of her.  Oh, and btw, act like nothing happened tomorrow! Go to school!"

    Is this supposed to be the first time a girl had a reaction to one of Joran's "potions" and passed out?

       He no more "panicked" when Natalee  passed out than he was "afraid his girlfriend would find out" or "he was ashamed his father would find out he left a girl on the beach".

I do remember an e-mail that Joran sent to a website informing them that some kind of fund had been opened to 'sponsor' Tacopina in Jorans case. Maybe the lawyers in Aruba are doing it for free / at a low price right now  because Paulus is working at that lawfirm.

[jackb]

   GMBW,  I am pretty sure Tacopina  is NOT working pro-bono, and his services come with a very high price tag!!

   Something that has always bothered me concerns whether or not the two younger Sloot brothers were on Aruba or in Holland at the time Natalee disappeared.  It is certainly a fact, one way or the other, whether or not they were on the plane from Holland, landing the following day.  Why can't confirmation from the Air Line be obtained????


      I also agree with the above poster who stated that Joran's story regarding Daury is a fantasy.  Or a very "sanitized" version.  No one comes to a beach, to help a friend, looks at an otherwise "fine" looking girl, passed out, and says, "Oh, she's dead!  OK, go home. I'll get my boat (hmm, BTW, did he arrive by boat? car?), and get rid of her.  Oh, and btw, act like nothing happened tomorrow! Go to school!"

    Is this supposed to be the first time a girl had a reaction to one of Joran's "potions" and passed out?

       He no more "panicked" when Natalee  passed out than he was "afraid his girlfriend would find out" or "he was ashamed his father would find out he left a girl on the beach".

I do remember an e-mail that Joran sent to a website informing them that some kind of fund had been opened to 'sponsor' Tacopina in Jorans case. Maybe the lawyers in Aruba are doing it for free / at a low price right now  because Paulus is working at that lawfirm.

 

Bunch of scam artists.  Joran wants someone to buy him a house in Spain.  Did it ever occur to him to WORK?  He is a piece of dribble and so is Palus.  Everyone down there is sue crazy.  They are like a bunch of jipsters who go around causing accidents so they can sue.  They are about the laziest, most worthless bunch of people I have seen in modern times.  It makes me sick to think about him killing that girl and then saying:  He is going to sue and get him a house in Spain.  Well, wherever he goes or whatever he does it will not be because the death of Natalee Holloway helped him in any way.  It would seem he might better be looking over his shoulder as there are some people out there and in prisons who like to do away with notorious people just for their own gun notches.  They are crazy as he is and I cannot say I would be the least bit saddened by it and if they got his running azzed poppa either, and all those who helped cover this up.  No, I think I would just say that is what someone on here calls "karma."   Jack b

[Destiny]

   GMBW,  I am pretty sure Tacopina  is NOT working pro-bono, and his services come with a very high price tag!!

   Something that has always bothered me concerns whether or not the two younger Sloot brothers were on Aruba or in Holland at the time Natalee disappeared.  It is certainly a fact, one way or the other, whether or not they were on the plane from Holland, landing the following day.  Why can't confirmation from the Air Line be obtained????


      I also agree with the above poster who stated that Joran's story regarding Daury is a fantasy.  Or a very "sanitized" version.  No one comes to a beach, to help a friend, looks at an otherwise "fine" looking girl, passed out, and says, "Oh, she's dead!  OK, go home. I'll get my boat (hmm, BTW, did he arrive by boat? car?), and get rid of her.  Oh, and btw, act like nothing happened tomorrow! Go to school!"

    Is this supposed to be the first time a girl had a reaction to one of Joran's "potions" and passed out?

       He no more "panicked" when Natalee  passed out than he was "afraid his girlfriend would find out" or "he was ashamed his father would find out he left a girl on the beach".

I do remember an e-mail that Joran sent to a website informing them that some kind of fund had been opened to 'sponsor' Tacopina in Jorans case. Maybe the lawyers in Aruba are doing it for free / at a low price right now  because Paulus is working at that lawfirm.

 

Bunch of scam artists.  Joran wants someone to buy him a house in Spain.  Did it ever occur to him to WORK?  He is a piece of dribble and so is Palus.  Everyone down there is sue crazy.  They are like a bunch of jipsters who go around causing accidents so they can sue.  They are about the laziest, most worthless bunch of people I have seen in modern times.  It makes me sick to think about him killing that girl and then saying:  He is going to sue and get him a house in Spain.  Well, wherever he goes or whatever he does it will not be because the death of Natalee Holloway helped him in any way.  It would seem he might better be looking over his shoulder as there are some people out there and in prisons who like to do away with notorious people just for their own gun notches.  They are crazy as he is and I cannot say I would be the least bit saddened by it and if they got his running azzed poppa either, and all those who helped cover this up.  No, I think I would just say that is what someone on here calls "karma."   Jack b

I feel the same...the only other person I've ever felt this way about, was Scott Peterson...was on the courttv site for that whole case...websleuths also...was one of the ppl that sent flowers to fill that friccin' boat in Redwood City....I so very much want...Justice for Natalee...I Pray that the Miracle of Easter...brings Miracles to the Holloway Family...and, all who Pray for Justice....

[Red]

Hey Monkeys,

Wishing everyone a very Happy Easter and the message of eternal hope.

The promise of hope gets us all through so very much.

HAPPY EASTER ... RED

[klaasend]

Hey Monkeys,

Wishing everyone a very Happy Easter and the message of eternal hope.

The promise of hope gets us all through so very much.

HAPPY EASTER ... RED

Happy Easter to you, Mrs. Red and everyone else at SM as well!

[texasmom]

Hey Monkeys,

Wishing everyone a very Happy Easter and the message of eternal hope.

The promise of hope gets us all through so very much.

HAPPY EASTER ... RED

Thanks, Red
I agree about the promise of hope, and am so thankful for it! 

Happy Easter to you and Mrs. Red!

TM

[Lala'sMom]

The 5th person has an alibi...so tight...so tight. Remember?  If Paulus did not have one..then it can not be him...just saying...don't throw things in my direction.  It's your words...not mine.   

Acccckkkkkkkkkkk!!!!....am heading off for the day...so, am tossing this on the fire....The 5th person has an alibi...so tight...so tight...I would even consider...*Anita*....the stories of who went where with her...don't add up...carry on Monkeys

I'm with you on this Destiny! 

Paulus, Anita and the 2 younger bros were all gone -- Paulus flew home that fateful Sunday.....

Then we have Paulus being home all along -- with the 2 younger bros.......the reason why Paulus had to leave the casino......

And where were these young boys when Paulus left his home in the middle of the night for several hours when Beth and Jug arrived?? Where were the younger boys then?? And why wasn't Paulus concerned at all about leaving them alone. He NEVER mentions them.


lala's -- one of the thoughts I've been mulling in recently weeks (although not having any time to post and share and get smarter monkey's thoughts)

Paulus's '2 singing cards' that were 'up his sleeve' and the 'alibi that was so tight'.....
Valentjin and Sebastian 

Also -- imo -- 'party at his home' may not be as 'literal' as we are taking it.

jmo.

.

 

I won't disagree with you on this.  Much conflict on stories.  We have Anita away with the kids...Paulus home to check on kids...Kids getting on bus on Monday morning...it has been speculated that Paulus had a few friends over for drinks which could be a simple party at his house...where are the PV's on his alibi?  The alibi people are the people at the party...the "party goers"...so they would be the ones over for drinks...would you have people over that late?  They would have had to be there at 4 AM for them to have "looked the other way" when he left.   A few people that have been mentioned....Ben Vocking, Jan vander Straten, Karen Jansen to name a few.  Those would be "so tight" alibis.  Who would have the courage to question those three?   I think the answer lies in whether or not the younger Sloots were home.

[San]

The 5th person has an alibi...so tight...so tight. Remember?  If Paulus did not have one..then it can not be him...just saying...don't throw things in my direction.  It's your words...not mine.   

Acccckkkkkkkkkkk!!!!....am heading off for the day...so, am tossing this on the fire....The 5th person has an alibi...so tight...so tight...I would even consider...*Anita*....the stories of who went where with her...don't add up...carry on Monkeys

I'm with you on this Destiny! 

Paulus, Anita and the 2 younger bros were all gone -- Paulus flew home that fateful Sunday.....

Then we have Paulus being home all along -- with the 2 younger bros.......the reason why Paulus had to leave the casino......

And where were these young boys when Paulus left his home in the middle of the night for several hours when Beth and Jug arrived?? Where were the younger boys then?? And why wasn't Paulus concerned at all about leaving them alone. He NEVER mentions them.


lala's -- one of the thoughts I've been mulling in recently weeks (although not having any time to post and share and get smarter monkey's thoughts)

Paulus's '2 singing cards' that were 'up his sleeve' and the 'alibi that was so tight'.....
Valentjin and Sebastian 

Also -- imo -- 'party at his home' may not be as 'literal' as we are taking it.

jmo.

.

 

I won't disagree with you on this.  Much conflict on stories.  We have Anita away with the kids...Paulus home to check on kids...Kids getting on bus on Monday morning...it has been speculated that Paulus had a few friends over for drinks which could be a simple party at his house...where are the PV's on his alibi?  The alibi people are the people at the party...the "party goers"...so they would be the ones over for drinks...would you have people over that late?  They would have had to be there at 4 AM for them to have "looked the other way" when he left.   A few people that have been mentioned....Ben Vocking, Jan vander Straten, Karen Jansen to name a few.  Those would be "so tight" alibis.  Who would have the courage to question those three?   I think the answer lies in whether or not the younger Sloots were home.

Now after Paulus is questioned and he says I had to leave the casino early because he had to go pick up his son.  So now when they ask him what did you do on Monday.  First thing he is going to say is that he put his kids on the school bus before he left for work.  Would that make his alibi tighter.  What I really want is the Head Master of the school brought in and questioned.  I want to question the other boys teachers to see if they were in school as Paulus is saying.  I want to question each and every classmate of Joran's just like Aruba wanted to question the MB kids.

We know this is not going to happen because this is where Anita comes in and speaks to her friends at school and says go along with anything my husband tells you.

GO AFTER THE HEAD MASTER AND GET HIM UNDER OATH.  HE CANNOT LIE BECAUSE WITNESSES CAN'T LIE.

[sb]

Happy Easter to all our Monkeys!

I go back to the posts by loesge that were quoted a few pages ago, in that I STILL think that Joran was not the only, or last, person to violate Natalee that night. He is too clumsy to do this all by himself, and I have always had a hard time imagining that  the massive machinery that has come to bear on this case down there would swing into action so quickly and thoroughly just to cover up a simple teenage crime of a tryst gone bad. There are other, HIGHER, BIGGER characters here, and I'm NOT just talking about PVDS.

I reiterate again... Beth seems very peaceful nowadays, and the FBI NEVER gives away its secrets. Both factors lead me to believe that answers are better known now that we are aware of publicly.  

[Rob]

Hi SB and Happy Easter to you and all the Monks.

I guess in my opinion I go with Mos (not that I think he is completely on the up and up) and think it is just the 4 suspects. If Mos is lying and he could be, he will burn like nothing yet seen. The major players (Authorities) in the case are all gone and hardly a memory to most of America. Mos is the face of the investigation and I can't imagine Godfather Peter R giving him a break. Mos will go back to Holland in the near future - like 1 year. So, if Mos is totally lying and there are more people involved, I can easily imagine that there will be mobs outside his house just like Joran's. Mos will go back to Holland a hero or a goat. There is no in between. He is a relatively young man and I would think he has his family and career to think about.

I have learned that the Dutch don't like liars. They do seem to tolerate some of the issues that got us all hot and bothered, but lying really pisses them off. I'll never forget that guy that made the YouTube so very critical of Joran and for the first time I saw the Dutch outraged by the actions of one Joran Van Der Sloot.

I just don't see a "elders" involved. Not that it couldn't happen and not to say it hasn't happened in the past, but according to Joran's "confession" with Patrick - it's just him and he is there when Natalee dies. It would have been an ample opportunity to blame everyone else and get that on the record if he truly wanted. He didn't. I believe he told a portion of the truth. He could have told Patrick anything and it could have been believed because it seemed "off the record".

So, if someone has anything definitive linking anyone but the four main suspects, I'll listen, but I may not be convinced unless it comes from the FBI or the KLPD. I'm not saying that the possibility doesn't exist, but using the time-line, it's hard to imagine anything bad happening that doesn't involve anyone but JPK2.

[San]

Hi SB and Happy Easter to you and all the Monks.

I guess in my opinion I go with Mos (not that I think he is completely on the up and up) and think it is just the 4 suspects. If Mos is lying and he could be, he will burn like nothing yet seen. The major players (Authorities) in the case are all gone and hardly a memory to most of America. Mos is the face of the investigation and I can't imagine Godfather Peter R giving him a break. Mos will go back to Holland in the near future - like 1 year. So, if Mos is totally lying and there are more people involved, I can easily imagine that there will be mobs outside his house just like Joran's. Mos will go back to Holland a hero or a goat. There is no in between. He is a relatively young man and I would think he has his family and career to think about.

I have learned that the Dutch don't like liars. They do seem to tolerate some of the issues that got us all hot and bothered, but lying really pisses them off. I'll never forget that guy that made the YouTube so very critical of Joran and for the first time I saw the Dutch outraged by the actions of one Joran Van Der Sloot.

I just don't see a "elders" involved. Not that it couldn't happen and not to say it hasn't happened in the past, but according to Joran's "confession" with Patrick - it's just him and he is there when Natalee dies. It would have been an ample opportunity to blame everyone else and get that on the record if he truly wanted. He didn't. I believe he told a portion of the truth. He could have told Patrick anything and it could have been believed because it seemed "off the record".

So, if someone has anything definitive linking anyone but the four main suspects, I'll listen, but I may not be convinced unless it comes from the FBI or the KLPD. I'm not saying that the possibility doesn't exist, but using the time-line, it's hard to imagine anything bad happening that doesn't involve anyone but JPK2.

You are right Rob.  He told a portion of the truth.  He made sure he left out the Kalpoes and His Father.  This is why those idiot Kalpoes were so happy when they heard the tape.  It's too bad that Joran's pot issues made the tape void.