Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 - 3/25/08

[vms]

someone was asking the other day about the gray car spotted in the Aru-Bay tapes. I have tried to find who owns that car for two years, and no real luck - so I am left guessing and the most logical guess would be Ben Voc / King owns that small gray car.

I was asking because of the cars below. Obvoiusly, I am not good a matching. 

[jackb]

wait a sec!!!

the Sloots don't own a gray car at all.

They own a red suzuki and a blue SUV (Hyundai??? KIA??) - is this right?

so, who's car is the one with the chuck missing from the steering wheel? is that the car seen in the Aru-Bay video? I thought we went over this before. did we?

Palus was driving that car with the chunk out of the steering wheel the night he played running man. I believe it was before he was arrested.  Jackb

yes Jack it was before he was arrested on the 25th(??) and he's vehicles were already impounded. It's not a rental or it wouldn't have a chunk missing from the steering wheel. No agency would rent a car in that condition... well maybe on Aruba they would. LOL

The shot where he is running is after he was interviewed about his involvement and Anita said he was running because he is a "private" man and doesn't like the media - or some such no sense.

I do not know if it is the lighting or what, but I pulled the windows very close up and resized this interior of this car and in some light it looks like a lot of blood stain in it, but due to the fact I could not believe this, that he would be driving a vehicle in such a condition, I never mentioned it.  It also looked as if he had a gym bag in there.  Some lighting will show up blood stains even after they are cleaned, but I have never really thought a computer could see it, but apparently the computer can see it and bring the coloring into focus, as the light is showing the computer millions of color shades the human eye cannot see until it is brought out by the light and captured.  I know that car was probably cleaned, but not good enough to where blood samples could not have been gotten out of it.  This does sound wild, but I have brought out some very interesting things in pictures that would possibly back this light and blood thing.  I have experimented on the pictures I saw on airport "x-rays," on here and brought up clothing and even blood vessels in the forms.  That sounds like something wild, I know, but it is the luck of the draw.  Jackb.       

[jackb]

someone was asking the other day about the gray car spotted in the Aru-Bay tapes. I have tried to find who owns that car for two years, and no real luck - so I am left guessing and the most logical guess would be Ben Voc / King owns that small gray car.

I was asking because of the cars below. Obvoiusly, I am not good a matching. 

It may be due to the paint texture and the lighting in the late evening from street lamps, etc., but I have seen a car appear to be a deep blue and turn out to be red after it got into better lighting.  Lighting is strange.         jackb

[jackb]

Good Morning...

MORE ON GVC

If they do not have a poster’s name on them, they are mine.The tourist apparently contacted the FBI. The posts at the bottom are just that...posts that I found.

From the ‘Shango thread

P 256 …from Joran’s book translation

On Monday April 24th 2006, GVC is released. GVC had an alibi for the night that Natalee Holloway disappeared. Apparently GVC wasn’t the "G" from Amsterdam with whom Natalee was in love.
++++

« Reply #1567 on: January 30, 2008, 06:35:59 PM »Yapperz   
 
GVC's nickname was "G" or "Gee". We saw it listed that way in some photos posted by a tourist who had met him at a bar.
++++

Prev. posted Feb.5th.

Here's the article about GVC...I just read at Riehlworld that Nat's friends had seen her talking to GVC see bottom of page.

Interview With Cromvoirt Acquaintance
Though currently studying abroad, I was able to establish contact and do a brief phone interview with a young American girl acquainted with current detainee in the Natalee Holloway investigation, Geoffrey van Cromvoirt.

She is still somewhat shaken by news of his arrest, particularly as it was June 9th, 2005, the night Joran Van der Sloot and the two Kalpoe brothers were arrested, when she met GVC at Carlos and Charlies. She was able to provide the day of the week, Thursday, which matches with the night of the three boys arrests. After speaking with her, I've no reason to doubt her veracity.

GVC was alone at Carlos and Charlies that night keeping mostly to himself. She could only remember him saying hello to one other person passing by that night in the club. After some initial eye contact, it was she who approached GVC. He immediately appeared to open up.

One item of possible interest, he told her that he worked during the day taking tourists out on a Catamaran. While I have no way of ascertaining it was the same catamaran, I do recall photos taken by the Mountain Brook students showing that they did take such a trip.

GVC struck her as something of a self promoter, constantly talking about himself, his many connections and his family's supposed wealth. She also recalled seeing images of some famous individuals he had stored in his cell phone, noting that GVC did not appear with those people in said pictures. Still, he insisted they were friends.

On another night, she may have been less receptive to the seemingly brash young man, but she found him attractive, she was on vacation and the two eventually danced. She indicated that there were no drugs involved, though both were drinking. At some point, GVC offered her a ride to her hotel and a male friend of the young woman went along.

GVC did apparently brag about being involved with security, trying to exert some pressure on a hotel guard to acknowledge who he was. The guard apparently failed to acknowledge him in any significant manner. She believes he was driving a jeep at the time, possibly blue and that he also mentioned a recent or pending purchase of a truck, color unknown.

Back at her hotel, it was decided that he would leave behind his ID and possibly some other wallet contents with her friends as security before the two went back out alone together. They spent approximately a half an hour or so together, primarily on the beach. The only potentially unusual thing she noticed during their time on the beach was that he might have been a bit nervous, looking about - at one point claiming he saw a security guard coming. She could not see a guard.

After some time on the beach his cell phone started ringing but he did not answer it. She believes it rang several times in succession, possibly as many as seven times. When she inquired about the calls, he stated that it was his Mother and that he had to get home. He kept reiterating, he had to go. She was puzzled at this as she believed him to be 19 years old at the time.

After a night of being extremely talkative, mostly about himself, she did eventually ask him in a casual way about the Natalee Holloway case. She feels very strongly that it was at that point his demeanor significantly changed. He almost completely stopped talking while the two were walking, swiftly now, back to her hotel.

She asked a few different questions ... if he knew of the case, of those involved, what was it that he thought. But he did not answer any of those questions, or change the topic. He mostly just stopped talking at all. They returned to her hotel, a friend brought down his things and that was the last she saw of him until his recent arrest. She felt he all but took off running, likely related to the phone calls, as he left.

Later after leaving the island, the interaction did leave her with a strange feeling, mostly because of his sudden silence when the topic of Natalee Holloway came up. Unsure if it meant anything, or not, eventually she did call the FBI. She gave them what information she could as regards the encounter, much of which I have now relayed here.

It remains unclear what, if any connection GVC has to the Holloway case. But at least one individual who spent some time with the boy soon after the disappearance was troubled enough about his demeanor simply talking about the case to make a call to the FBI.

I have agreed to keep her identity secret.

++++

According to what Holloway's friends have told authorities, the blond-haired, blue-eyed van Cromvoirt was seen with their classmate after she left van der Sloot - the pals say they saw them in the Holiday Inn casino together. But when the casino's video surveillance tapes were turned over to police, investigators could find no sign of Holloway and van Cromvoirt, the source noted.

Van Cromvoirt's father is the security expert in charge of video surveillance at the hotel.

Aruban authorities are also scrutinizing a surveillance tape taken earlier on May 30 that shows Holloway arguing with a light-haired young man in a jewelry store in the Wyndham Hotel, according to the source.

 

Apparently those boys were into saying they were from somewhere else at will, but his father does have businesses in the NL, Aruba, and some of the other dutch islands.  He could conceivably say he was from anywhere within those areas and not be totally a liar.  Of course the whole truth never seems to occur to them as they are up to something that would point away from them them they commit crimes.   j/b

[Rob]

Not the same car in my opinion.

[Destiny]

Silver car photos here in the Important Case Document area, suspect's vehicles:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2016.0

Thank You Klaas...

[Tamikosmom]

There was a question yesterday about his "suspect" status.  I guess the ability to monitor etc. is tied to whether he is a formal suspect, again.  I thought so because they did remove that computer from granny's house....but many feel he is not a "formal" suspect.   

Buckeye ... the following statement from the Prosecutor's Offices states that  "again" Joran is the prime suspect.

Janet

++++++++++++++

February 15, 2008
Court of Appeal upholds lower judge’s decision not to detain J.v.d.S.
J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues

The Court of Appeal announced by the end of yesterday, February 14th, 2008, its decision to uphold the refusal by the investigating judge to order pre-trial detention of J.v.d.S. in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The Office of the Public Prosecutor had requested such an order after the “Peter R de Vries-tapes” had been received by the Office and had been evaluated. Last week the Office appealed the ruling of refusal by the judge.

The reasons underlying the Court’s decision are the following. The Court has seen the visual materials, has listened to the audio materials and has inspected the verbatim reports. Based on that, the Court is of the opinion that there is a lack of sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspect’s involvement in the crimes for which he is being held responsible by the prosecution. The Court will generally be a bit more hesitant when it has to decide on a new request for pre-trial detention of a suspect, when that same suspect has been detained repeatedly before and there has been a considerable lapse of time.

J.v.d.S. has given extensive and detailed statements in Patrick van der Eem’s car, the undercover citizen who worked for Peter R. de Vries, on what happened during the night of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Nevertheless the Court sees various reasons not to accept the serious grounds of suspicion which are statutorily required for pre-trial detention. One of them is the history of contradictory statements by J.v.d.S., which were belied repeatedly by objective findings.

At this moment those parts of the statements made in Van der Eem’s car which contain new elements are not being underpinned by objective findings. Considering the possibility of a serious personality disorder – as voiced by the prosecution – combined with a personal history of untrue statements and remarks, which even according to the suspect himself are frequently false, the Court of Appeal has reasons for doubt regarding the incriminating character of the “car-statements.”

On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.

At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not/

[Destiny]

wait a sec!!!

the Sloots don't own a gray car at all.

They own a red suzuki and a blue SUV (Hyundai??? KIA??) - is this right?

so, who's car is the one with the chuck missing from the steering wheel? is that the car seen in the Aru-Bay video? I thought we went over this before. did we?

Palus was driving that car with the chunk out of the steering wheel the night he played running man. I believe it was before he was arrested.  Jackb

yes Jack it was before he was arrested on the 25th(??) and he's vehicles were already impounded. It's not a rental or it wouldn't have a chunk missing from the steering wheel. No agency would rent a car in that condition... well maybe on Aruba they would. LOL

The shot where he is running is after he was interviewed about his involvement and Anita said he was running because he is a "private" man and doesn't like the media - or some such no sense.

I think he was *given* that car...from impound...to move Natalee *again*....so there would be no evidence on any other vehicle...then the car was returned to impound...

[Lala'sMom]

That car looks more like the one sitting outside Freddy's place than any other photo.  Notice the dark trim on the car as compared to Freddy's.  Just saying...slinking back in corner.

[jackb]

someone was asking the other day about the gray car spotted in the Aru-Bay tapes. I have tried to find who owns that car for two years, and no real luck - so I am left guessing and the most logical guess would be Ben Voc / King owns that small gray car.

Rob, I do know that in the car in front of the ATM machine, that when I messed around with the lighting and enhanced the picture in spots and moved the pixels by certain scenes other scenes were visible, not clear yet, but visible, some more so than others.  The car when lit certain ways and resized shows it become jeep headlights and there are different cars and a truck like at an intersection far away from the car what appears to be a grey car stopped in front of a business.  This is probably due to the scenes are actually pixels and of course not like film and when they are replaced by moving and enlightening certain sections, you have a different scent, whereas in film the film would move and a different scene would appear.  In the picture of the casino where I uncovered Palus' face I used a method to remove the pixels that were filled in underneath because the thing blocking Palus' face was like an intrusion and when removed, it became a face.  It is tricky.  Klass has the picture, posted it and you may have seen it.  It is not so transparent that you cannot well see the snakes face whole.  I just have a knack for this and discovered this process almost three years ago using ordinary computers and sometimes more than one to three imaging programs because no one has all the features to do this most of the time. I do not post pictures I do normally as they are too graphic, but have given them to people who should know what to do with them.  I think only 2 people dealing with this case has my e-mail and Klaas is one of them.  I do not post on imaging or in blogs as I do not want feet in my doors, especially until I have the material moved into outside storage.    Jack blue

[Rob]

That car looks more like the one sitting outside Freddy's place than any other photo.  Notice the dark trim on the car as compared to Freddy's.  Just saying...slinking back in corner.

Hi Lala's

not the same car in my opinion.. sorry... but it was good thinking.

[MumInOhio]

That car looks more like the one sitting outside Freddy's place than any other photo.  Notice the dark trim on the car as compared to Freddy's.  Just saying...slinking back in corner.

But are any of them a Toyota, is what I would really like to know...LOL

This is from the Dr Phil documents...and of course Freddy was interviewed that same day...

Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness pointing out an area of interest
 
Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness statement about a gray Toyota

[Rob]

someone was asking the other day about the gray car spotted in the Aru-Bay tapes. I have tried to find who owns that car for two years, and no real luck - so I am left guessing and the most logical guess would be Ben Voc / King owns that small gray car.

Rob, I do know that in the car in front of the ATM machine, that when I messed around with the lighting and enhanced the picture in spots and moved the pixels by certain scenes other scenes were visible, not clear yet, but visible, some more so than others.  The car when lit certain ways and resized shows it become jeep headlights and there are different cars and a truck like at an intersection far away from the car what appears to be a grey car stopped in front of a business.  This is probably due to the scenes are actually pixels and of course not like film and when they are replaced by moving and enlightening certain sections, you have a different scent, whereas in film the film would move and a different scene would appear.  In the picture of the casino where I uncovered Palus' face I used a method to remove the pixels that were filled in underneath because the thing blocking Palus' face was like an intrusion and when removed, it became a face.  It is tricky.  Klass has the picture, posted it and you may have seen it.  It is not so transparent that you cannot well see the snakes face whole.  I just have a knack for this and discovered this process almost three years ago using ordinary computers and sometimes more than one to three imaging programs because no one has all the features to do this most of the time. I do not post pictures I do normally as they are too graphic, but have given them to people who should know what to do with them.  I think only 2 people dealing with this case has my e-mail and Klaas is one of them.  I do not post on imaging or in blogs as I do not want feet in my doors, especially until I have the material moved into outside storage.    Jack blue

thanks for the info Jack. I have seen the photo where you removed the sign.

[jackb]

Silver car photos here in the Important Case Document area, suspect's vehicles:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2016.0

Thank You Klaas...

This picture appears to have a driver and Palus sitting on the far side with his arm up holding onto the handle to brace you getting out of the car.

Palus face seems on the far side.  Best I remember when I enhanced this photo that there was someone on the far side of the car appearing to be standing near the window, perhaps talking to the passenger (who may be Palus.)  Palus chin and glasses and facial features are more prominent than the driver and he is just slightly forward more than the drive who for me cannot be made out enough to even guess at.  I am going to look at that again.  jackb

[Destiny]

Silver car photos here in the Important Case Document area, suspect's vehicles:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2016.0

Thank You Klaas...

This picture appears to have a driver and Palus sitting on the far side with his arm up holding onto the handle to brace you getting out of the car.

Palus face seems on the far side.  Best I remember when I enhanced this photo that there was someone on the far side of the car appearing to be standing near the window, perhaps talking to the passenger (who may be Palus.)  Palus chin and glasses and facial features are more prominent than the driver and he is just slightly forward more than the drive who for me cannot be made out enough to even guess at.  I am going to look at that again.  jackb

Agree with you Jack...

[Lala'sMom]

That car looks more like the one sitting outside Freddy's place than any other photo.  Notice the dark trim on the car as compared to Freddy's.  Just saying...slinking back in corner.

Hi Lala's

not the same car in my opinion.. sorry... but it was good thinking.

As I said...I was just saying. I am never right...alas...heavy sigh.

[Auntiem]

   Aaah, LaLa, you are not alone!!!!

[Rob]

As I said...I was just saying. I am never right...alas...heavy sigh.

Lalasmom
please don't think I was critical of you... cause I would never do that. When you "were just saying" I decided to help. 

[hotping]

That car looks more like the one sitting outside Freddy's place than any other photo.  Notice the dark trim on the car as compared to Freddy's.  Just saying...slinking back in corner.

But are any of them a Toyota, is what I would really like to know...LOL

This is from the Dr Phil documents...and of course Freddy was interviewed that same day...

Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness pointing out an area of interest
 
Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness statement about a gray Toyota

Mum the top pic in Lala's post reply 435 looks like a Toyota Tercel....My Daughter had one just like it years ago....

[MumInOhio]

That car looks more like the one sitting outside Freddy's place than any other photo.  Notice the dark trim on the car as compared to Freddy's.  Just saying...slinking back in corner.

But are any of them a Toyota, is what I would really like to know...LOL

This is from the Dr Phil documents...and of course Freddy was interviewed that same day...

Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness pointing out an area of interest
 
Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness statement about a gray Toyota

Mum the top pic in Lala's post reply 435 looks like a Toyota Tercel....My Daughter had one just like it years ago....

Thank You...I think you mean the one at Freddy's house....the one I think could be the 'other car'...Freddy needs to tell the truth!