Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 - 3/25/08

[Kiwi]

oceanexploration good afternoon! I have a side question about another case in the missing persons section here, under Clinton D Nelson. TES has done a resent search of the area. There are discussions to drain some ponds near where he went missing. Is it possible to use the side scanning sonar in these areas? If possible, his mom set up the tread and monitors it. Any advise would help her with connecting with the right people.

[oceanexploration]

oceanexploration good afternoon! I have a side question about another case in the missing persons section here, under Clinton D Nelson. TES has done a resent search of the area. There are discussions to drain some ponds near where he went missing. Is it possible to use the side scanning sonar in these areas? If possible, his mom set up the tread and monitors it. Any advise would help her with connecting with the right people.

Greetings,
I personally don't like draining ponds unless absolutely necessary.  The larger the body or water the more cost-effective and efficient a side scan sonar is.  A scanning sonar can be used in smaller ponds.  TES now has connections with people who can best handle this type of search in my opinion.  I think you're on the right track and I wish you and the family well.

[Rob]

The bottom picture where you cannot see anyone appears to be possibly two vehicles parked very close and side by side.  The driver on this side talking to the driver of the other car.  Cannot be sure at all and that is the way they want it.  The back wheels on the car closest to the viewer (on their far side in back) seems like are setting at a different angle than they should be since the front wheels are showing solid.  The perception is off.
       jackb

Jack - that screen shot was taken while the car was moving in an Aru-Bay video. There was no other car in the frame. Just the small gray car.

Ed Smith's video equipment is the worst...LOL...

[caesu]

two little things, maybe already mentioned:

1. joran supposedly is playing online poker again:
http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/1237801.html

2. patrick has a new blog posting:
http://patrickvandereem.nl/?p=14

he is talking about the Boca Grande (scar) B.S.

Caesue could You tell Us what this says its under the poker site comments

Annette_15 speelt "live" ook goed won volgens mij afgelopen jaar de EPT in Copenhagen of Duplin of zo. +500.000 pleuris, maar kwa uiterlijk is het geen hollowaytje

Thanks in Advance! 

 

is says:

"Annette_15 plays "live" good too. won last year the EPT in Copenhagen or Dublin. +500.000 (euro's?), but looking at her appearance, she is not a Holloway." (meaning she is not pretty)

Anette_15 is Joran's favorite player.
she is from Norway.

but i wouldn't spend much time on the geenstijl.nl site. especially on the comments.

[nuntukamen]

just got this in my email on jorasn's rearrest, so i am posting it here to quiet any rumors:


Haven't heard anything about that. I doubt whether it
is true. It would have spread like wildfire in Aruba.
No, I haven't heard anything about it so far.
 
Regards
 
Jossy  (Mansur)

[vms]

******* or crazybabyborg,

Help on the Shango thread please!

[SS]

oceanexploration good afternoon! I have a side question about another case in the missing persons section here, under Clinton D Nelson. TES has done a resent search of the area. There are discussions to drain some ponds near where he went missing. Is it possible to use the side scanning sonar in these areas? If possible, his mom set up the tread and monitors it. Any advise would help her with connecting with the right people.

Greetings,
I personally don't like draining ponds unless absolutely necessary.  The larger the body or water the more cost-effective and efficient a side scan sonar is.  A scanning sonar can be used in smaller ponds.  TES now has connections with people who can best handle this type of search in my opinion.  I think you're on the right track and I wish you and the family well.

Hi Kyle,

At the end of February, we were trying very hard to hustle contributions for the Persistence.  We had heard that funds were low and an appeal for donations was posted on the Persistence website.  About a week later, we learned that Persistence was returning to Louisiana.  Can you share any information with us about any possible plans to renew the search off of Aruba?  We know that there are still many sites that you need to check.  Are there any plans at this point to return? I can't imagine for a second that Dave is ready to stop.  We sure aren't ready to stop.  Do the Dutch/Arubans have any detailed information about the locations of the sites that you have identified?  Can you share with us how much information you were required to give them in exchange for permission to search in their waters?  Can you also give us an idea of the attitude of the sandflies toward you and the search team?

[ala_gunslinger]

Pardon my manners!

Happy Vernal Equinox everybody!!!!!

[oceanexploration]

Hi Kyle,

At the end of February, we were trying very hard to hustle contributions for the Persistence.  We had heard that funds were low and an appeal for donations was posted on the Persistence website.  About a week later, we learned that Persistence was returning to Louisiana.  Can you share any information with us about any possible plans to renew the search off of Aruba?  We know that there are still many sites that you need to check.  Are there any plans at this point to return? I can't imagine for a second that Dave is ready to stop.  We sure aren't ready to stop.  Do the Dutch/Arubans have any detailed information about the locations of the sites that you have identified?  Can you share with us how much information you were required to give them in exchange for permission to search in their waters?  Can you also give us an idea of the attitude of the sandflies toward you and the search team?

Greetings,

First, thank you for your tireless efforts and dedication.  The Persistence leaving Aruba was strictly due to the fact that it's work there was complete.  Don't hear me wrong. We completed the side scan sonar search of the entire planned area.  We did an initial round of ROV dives with the Persistence which was on the order of 65 dives.  The final round of ROV dives was to inspect everything not inspected in the remaining area of the search grid.  The Persistence is very expensive and over-kill to keep on site when all we need is to dive on targets with an ROV.  It is best to return the Persistence to it's home and bring in an ROV boat or dive boat to complete the dives.  It's more efficient this way without the extra personnel and equipment out in the field. 
I just got off the phone with Tim Trahan a few minutes ago talking about returning to dive on the remaining targets.  There are plans to return, we just need to figure out the details of when and how.  The "how" question will help us figure out how much more funds we need to raise, if any.  I'm not involved in this.
The Arubans and Dutch never requested any information on our locations and don't have the target list(s).  They obviously know where the trap is because the Aruban dive division dove on the trap with us. From what I experienced, their attitude towards us was never anything other than professional, friendly, courteous, and positive.  By "they", I mean the Aruban dive division, coast guard, and port authority. I didn't come across any sand flies.   

[Rob]

Pardon my manners!

Happy Vernal Equinox everybody!!!!!

GS
Happy Vernal Equinox to you my Druid friend!!!

and Good Easter also!!!

Janet, thank you for the lovely and wonderful passages. I enjoyed them immensely.

[Rob]

Pardon my manners!

Happy Vernal Equinox everybody!!!!!

GS
Happy Vernal Equinox to you my Druid friend!!!

and Good Easter also!!!

Janet, thank you for the lovely and wonderful passages. I enjoyed them immensely.

I think I meant - Good "Friday"... LOL

[ala_gunslinger]

Pardon my manners!

Happy Vernal Equinox everybody!!!!!

GS
Happy Vernal Equinox to you my Druid friend!!!

and Good Easter also!!!

Janet, thank you for the lovely and wonderful passages. I enjoyed them immensely.

I think I meant - Good "Friday"... LOL

lol!   *S.H.I.T

* S.H.I.T - 4 letter acronym for Sorry Hombre Its Thursday!

Same to ya!

[caesu]

i've got a bit more info on Rudy / Hendrik Croes.

1990
aruba got more and more associated with the international drug trade.
a dutch-netherlands procureur generaal P.A.H. Bos criticized aruba for having just dutch-aruban prosecutors.
oppostion AVP (Eman) wanted to scrap the independence and have a referendum on that.

1991
in may the MEP governement scrapped the plans for the 1996 independence.
justice minister Hendrik Croes got in a disagreement with a dutch-aruban prosecutor. the prosecutor was had to resign.

1992
the building of 3 hotels got into trouble due to bankruptcy of the contractors.
aruba financed this in advance and the bank wanted the money back.
the netherlands refused to bail aruba out but agreed to a loan to finish one hotel but two hotels had to be destroyed.
aruba was 100 million guilders in debt.
(i am almost sure this has to do with the Plant/Marriott complex - the dutch sold this hotel, and now aruba want a share of the money - but the netherlands is refusing this < this is still unresolved and oduber and croes got into various arguments with netherlands about this)

1993
new MEP government. Rudy Croes is now justice minister for the first time.
important protocol with the netherlands that the 1996 independence only could be scrapped if aruba made sure there is sound government, legal certainty (art. 43 kingdom charter) and sort out the budget spending.
financial situation was bad - in part due to the above mentioned hotel debacle.

1994
government oduber II falls due to disagreement with coalition parties.
elections and AVP back in power. henny eman PM.

1996
a dutch commission headed but former minister de Ruiter does proposal to make the aruba justice system better.
the three prime minister of the kingdom decide to call the aruban procureur generaal and replace the head of police and his 2nd in command.
a combined investigation team is going to battle crime.
aruba gets visited the speakers of both dutch chambers of parlaiment and aruba gets criticized for the too close relations between government/companies and the bad situation of justice system.
Eman is angry about this but agrees to talks.

1997.
leader of coalition party OLA (Glenbert Croes - son of Betico Croes) is accused of nepotism.
government Eman falls.
new election don't change the seats in parliament.
dutch commission Biesheuvel gives advise to dutch government about aruba-dutch financial relations.
dutch aid has to decrease and stop within 10 years. aruba has to improve the police and justice system.

1998
new government Eman sworn in.
aruba on USA-list of drugs producing/exporting countries (27 countries listed).


http://www.nl.bol.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/nl/-/EUR/BOL_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=YCXXXDCVXCzXZHd3p1Tpa9BN-Z5HW8Jd5IA=?Section=BOOK&BOL_OWNER_ID=666879351
http://www.studybuddy.nl/nederlands/contentnedantillen.html

2006
secretary of kingdom affairs pechtold suggest that the status aparte of aruba has to be reviewed because of the protocal deviced in 1993 (see above) as long as aruba hasn't sorted out their sound government and financial situation aruba is in violation of the 1993 protocol.
rudy croes says: "the day the status aparte is changed - it means war"
(the 1993 protocol is signed by then dutch justice minister hirsch ballin then dutch pm lubbers, oduber, henny eman and the antilles cabinet.
http://antillen.nu/content/view/910/165/

more about Rudy Croes
- i think this is for the public domain as he has public position (i've got more and waiting for even more but not relevant imo just yet):

he studied college school in the netherlands about analyzing microbiology (so not law-school).
also study pharma-microbiology in caracas.
head-analyst in (state)laboratories on aruba and venezuela.

was in 1993 involved in the establishment of the joint dutch-aruban-antilles coast guard (headed by the dutch, part of royal navy).
member or chairman of various parlaiment commitees during to time when he was not justice minister.

has padi diving licence.
has private plane flying licence.
he is/was also active in various sports.

[texasmom]

Thank you Caesu!  Very interesting information!
 

[SS]

Are words necessary?

[klaasend]

Melanie on the left and Aline on the right.   

[Rob]

caesu, thanks for the info...

and

theoretically it's possible that Rudy Croes himself gave the North Valle Cartel the routes of the Dutch Navy and Coast guard.

That kind of info doesn't come cheap - like 65 million?

[caesu]

i read on http://www.amigoe.com/ that Hendrik Croes is released from KIA.
but to read the article a subscription is needed.

[SS]

Melanie on the left and Aline on the right.   

The T-shirt says it all.

[caesu]

i read on http://www.amigoe.com/ that Hendrik Croes is released from KIA.
but to read the article a subscription is needed.

dutch newspaper also reporting on this.
OM didn't see reason to keep him detained after studying the witnesses statements.

http://www.nrc.nl/buitenland/article981306.ece/Staking_legt_Aruba_korte_tijd_plat

also reports about the aruba coming to a standstill after a total strike for a period.

( http://www.amigoe.com/english/ Unions: No longer minimum staffing )