Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 - 3/25/08

[Dayhiker]

i read on http://www.amigoe.com/ that Hendrik Croes is released from KIA.
but to read the article a subscription is needed.

dutch newspaper also reporting on this.
OM didn't see reason to keep him detained after studying the witnesses statements.

http://www.nrc.nl/buitenland/article981306.ece/Staking_legt_Aruba_korte_tijd_plat

Caesu, I'd like to see what the comments are by the OM in this article. I thought the OM wanted Joran retained and the judge wouldn't allow it.

Would the OM in this case be Hans Mos or Dop Kruimel? TIA for any help you can give.

[San]

From caesu's post on page 24:

more about Rudy Croes
- i think this is for the public domain as he has public position (i've got more and waiting for even more but not relevant imo just yet):

he studied college school in the netherlands about analyzing microbiology (so not law-school).
also study pharma-microbiology in caracas.
head-analyst in (state)laboratories on aruba and venezuela.

was in 1993 involved in the establishment of the joint dutch-aruban-antilles coast guard (headed by the dutch, part of royal navy).
member or chairman of various parlaiment commitees during to time when he was not justice minister.

has padi diving licence.
has private plane flying licence.
he is/was also active in various sports.



 

 

[Dayhiker]

wait a sec!!!

the Sloots don't own a gray car at all.

They own a red suzuki and a blue SUV (Hyundai??? KIA??) - is this right?

so, who's car is the one with the chuck missing from the steering wheel? is that the car seen in the Aru-Bay video? I thought we went over this before. did we?

He [PAULUS] is a civil servant and lives in a middle class neighborhood and drives a Honda? There is a great amount of wealth on this island and the v/d Sloots are not part of it. Taxi drivers probably make more than the judge!
Julia Renfro
Editor-in-Chief
Aruba Today

[Note: It looks to be parked in front of his home in one picture]

Pretty damn amazing they can jet-set their family back and forth to Holland, keep Joran flush in casino cash and afford the most expensive Mafia lawyer in the US on a paycheck less than a taxi driver.

Paulus missed his calling. He should have been an accountant.

[Magnolia]

I am really happy that the Aruban public service employees are
taking a stand against the government.  Sounds like they have
grown a backbone and there are enough of them to make a big
impression.
Have we heard who has organized this strike?

[Dayhiker]

I am really happy that the Aruban public service employees are
taking a stand against the government.  Sounds like they have
grown a backbone and there are enough of them to make a big
impression.
Have we heard who has organized this strike?

Evening Magnolia! If nothing else they drew Oduber out of his hidey hole!

[Buckeye]

From caesu's post on page 24:

more about Rudy Croes
- i think this is for the public domain as he has public position (i've got more and waiting for even more but not relevant imo just yet):

he studied college school in the netherlands about analyzing microbiology (so not law-school).
also study pharma-microbiology in caracas.
head-analyst in (state)laboratories on aruba and venezuela.

was in 1993 involved in the establishment of the joint dutch-aruban-antilles coast guard (headed by the dutch, part of royal navy).
member or chairman of various parlaiment commitees during to time when he was not justice minister.

has padi diving licence.
has private plane flying licence.
he is/was also active in various sports.



 

You need a backseat with Gielen.

[caesu]

Hendrik (H. S.) Croes has studied law.
he must have, because he is landsadvocaat (attorney for the government).
around 1979 he was justice minister for the Dutch Antilles (before 1986 aruba was part of the country Dutch Antilles.)
http://www.reclassering.org/index.php?page_id=27&style_id=0  "toenmalige minister van justitie, mr. H.S. Croes"

so now we have justice minister rudy croes and landsadvocaat hendrik croes.
doesn't sound right to me. in some countries it isn't even allowed to have next of kin to the 2nd degree being member of parliament.
seems to me that hendrik croes gives rudy croes directions.

also found that hendrik croes is named in the cargo-affair.
http://ikregeer.nl/static/pdf/KVR3597.pdf dutch parlaiment asked questions about this in 1996.
this is related to the irt-affair. major drugs smuggling affair by the police themselves.
in an earlier article investigators were asked by then dutch-aruban procureur generaal Zwinkels not to question Rudy Croes because he might became justice minister again. i doubt they questioned his brother Hendrik either...
http://www.groene.nl/1996/49/Braaf_aruba
http://www.groene.nl/1996/39/De_aruba-affaire

here is a report by the European Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (CPT) visiting Aruba to check on news of mistreatment in KIA.

A. Governmental authorities

    Mr. J.H.M. Zwinkels - Attorney General

    Mr. B. Vocking - Deputy Director, Aruba Correctional Institute

    Ms. C. van den Berg - Head of the Rehabilitation and Child Welfare Council

    Ms. Y. Spellen - Director, Guardianship Board

    Mr. J. van de Straten - Head of the National Bureau of Investigations

    Mr. L. Rasmijn - Police Commissioner

    Mr. E. Bennet - Head of the Airport Immigration Authorities

    Mr. R. Martus - Inspector of Police

    Ms. A. Peterson - Department of Foreign Affairs Liaison officer to the CPT

Rasmijn en Zwinkels were involved with IRT / Cargo-affair. (see both groene amsterdammer-articles)
also note J van de(r) Straten. didn't know he was already there around that time???
but it is a very common name. but as Head of the National Bureau of Investigations
he must have been involved too with IRT/Cargo-affair.
does this mean he has stuff on Rudy/Hendrik Croes? or on eachother? or even Hirsch Ballin? (had to resign because of IRT-affair.
i repeat this IRT-affair was huge.

i've got a few books and websites bookmarked still to read/scroll through.
but same names keep popping up constantly.
this book seems especially interesting:
http://www.aup.nl/do.php?a=show_visitor_book&isbn=9053564675&l=1

zwinkels was prosecutor under resort 's hertogenbosch - procureur generaal there was gonsalves.
but then i think i am getting way to far. because gonsalves is a very shady person.
he 'supposedly' butchered many people of the Dani-tribe in papau-new-guinea in the 50s. killed people on the spot.
he was called 'godshelves' or 'gunsalvo'. but never got convicted for this.
there is even a gonsalves-price awarded each year now for people who did good work for justice.
after hirsch ballin resigned because of irt-affair the gonsalves-murders came up due to research of a tv-program.
the next justice minister kosto didn't see reason to take action.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolph_Gonsalves
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Gonsalvesprijs
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aad_Kosto

[caesu]

i read on http://www.amigoe.com/ that Hendrik Croes is released from KIA.
but to read the article a subscription is needed.

dutch newspaper also reporting on this.
OM didn't see reason to keep him detained after studying the witnesses statements.

http://www.nrc.nl/buitenland/article981306.ece/Staking_legt_Aruba_korte_tijd_plat

Caesu, I'd like to see what the comments are by the OM in this article. I thought the OM wanted Joran retained and the judge wouldn't allow it.

Would the OM in this case be Hans Mos or Dop Kruimel? TIA for any help you can give.

not sure how this exactly works.
but the OM can keep someone detained for 48 hours.
after that a judge (rechter-commissaris) has to decided wether the detainment can be extended.
this time Hans Mos didn't see enough evidence to ask a judge for a extension of the detainment of Hendrik Croes.

literally is says: "after studying statements of witnesses the OM saw no reason to keep him longer detained".
but it should say i think: "didn't see reason to ask a judge for a extension".

on 24ora Mos said he wasn't sure if Hendrik Croes did hit the policeman.
but he was sure that Hendrik Croes drove off. but that isn't enough to keep him detained.
he might still be a suspect but not a dangerous suspect or someone who might flee.
but i think the police union will keep pressing the case against Hendrik Croes as he is the attorney for the government in the case against the striking state employees (including the police).

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle, I have a question.

Initially when the search was announced there was indication that TWO ships were going to be used.

One 265 feet and the other 340 feet. How could those ships be justified when the Persistence was 'over kill'?

In fact many people blogged about the size of these ships and wonder if it was economically feasible. Was there a re-direct in which ship(s) would be used?

First, WOW I haven't heard anything about two ships, or ships of that size being used in the search. I don't know where this information came from.   The Persistence was the right boat for the job.  Let me explain over kill.  Over kill was when we were finished using the capabilities intrinsic to the Persistence.  This includes a geophysical suite, namely side scan sonar, magnetometer, and bathymetric mapping abilities.  Once this portion of the work was complete, we no longer needed these capabilities. The information that came out early on about these tw boats you mentioned... I have not seen... and I was involved in the planning. 
There was a re-direct in which ship would be used before the Persistence.  I'm unsure of the boat that was to be used, but it withdrew at the last minute during mobilization if I'm not mistaken.  If memory serves, it was a similar size to the Persistence.  I'm sure someone here within minutes of the posting will correct me and post all the information on the boat.  It may have been the Apache.  Not sure.  Either way, the Persistence was just right for the job.  However, it isn't a ROV boat even though we used a small inspection class ROV with it.  It also lacks a dynamic positioning system enabling it to "hover" over a fixed position using bow and stern thrusters.     

Kyle ... Rob is correct.  In June, 2007 Tim Miller did reveal that two ships with the latest technology would be headed for Aruba to search for Natalee but ... it is my understanding that hurricane season was given as the reason the postponement.

Also, Tim Miller implied that it was not necessary that the Arubans were involved.  Did the crew of the Persistence have a choice in regards to the involvement of the Arubans in the search?

Janet

++++++++++++++++++

Tim Miller
FOX ONLINE - JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007

COLBY:  Tim, why are they (Arubans) standing in your way?

MILLER: I don't think they can stand in our way. With the equipment we got and if we have to go in off of Venezuela. Whereever we need to go into, we've got the equipment. In fact they are more than welcome to be on the ship with us. The ships that we are taking over are a 265 foot ship and a 340 foot ship which have all the latest technology on it. In fact the owner of this company, Louis Shaeffer of Superior Offshore International, Louis called Dave Holloway up about two months ago when I was at Louis' house. He said "Mr Holloway, I'm going to promise you something, if your daughter is in a metal container out there in that water, we are going to bring her home."


Tim Miller
Dana Pretzer Show
June 8, 2007

Tim:  How can you put a timeline on it but you know with the size of these ships, the technology that we're going over there with, we're optimistic. These ships are actually equipped (inaudible) incredible company that's offering these services and again we're going to be interviewing them next week and it's something we've been wanting to make happen, for somebody to step forward. I've been talking to them since December ....

Credit: Heli - RU Site


Tim Miller
JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007

MILLER: ... Gerold Dompig actually told us when Dave and I was over there; that he felt that Natalee was out in the water, that the night the fishermen's hut was broken into, a knife was stolen, a rope was stolen and a large crab trap was stolen.

Gerold Dompig's words were "Natalee was put in that crab trap, they put rocks in it and they took her out 3 to 5 miles and she's 800 to 1,000 feet deep and we always thought about the water anyhow.

When Dave and I were over there we actually found the boat we truly feel took Natalee out to sea ...

Transcript Credit: Heli (RU)

[SS]

Oh, I get a knot in my chest reading Janet's post.  They were so hopeful about a smooth recovery and so confident that there wouldn't be Dutch/ALE interference.  It sure sounds like they knew which boat was used, so they must also know who Fin's fifth suspect is.

[AZSunny]

Klaas and *******

On the "Dutch" thread, I think johan thinks the photoshopped VDS house picture is the real one and the real picture has "new" houses built.  I tried to explain but I think someone needs to post "the real" picture and the possible date of the shopped one.  Geesh....I thought Shango was hard.....I might just have to travel to the Netherlands to try and practice my new "almost" language, when this is over.   

Klaas can you point me to which is which or post here also please.  I have a long time question that I am trying to figure out.  thanks

[klaasend]

Klaas and *******

On the "Dutch" thread, I think johan thinks the photoshopped VDS house picture is the real one and the real picture has "new" houses built.  I tried to explain but I think someone needs to post "the real" picture and the possible date of the shopped one.  Geesh....I thought Shango was hard.....I might just have to travel to the Netherlands to try and practice my new "almost" language, when this is over.   

Klaas can you point me to which is which or post here also please.  I have a long time question that I am trying to figure out.  thanks

The photos are recently posted in the Dutch thead:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.msg367280#new

A little background on the two different Sloot compound pics.  The original picture shows the houses next door to the Sloots, etc.  The photoshopped pic has the neighbor's homes photoshopped out plus some other things.  I believe the photoshopped picture was found on the Judicial Inc website.

[Lala'sMom]

Oh, I get a knot in my chest reading Janet's post.  They were so hopeful about a smooth recovery and so confident that there wouldn't be Dutch/ALE interference.  It sure sounds like they knew which boat was used, so they must also know who Fin's fifth suspect is.

I thought it was GVC?? Man, I need to pay better attention. 

[AZSunny]

Klaas and *******

On the "Dutch" thread, I think johan thinks the photoshopped VDS house picture is the real one and the real picture has "new" houses built.  I tried to explain but I think someone needs to post "the real" picture and the possible date of the shopped one.  Geesh....I thought Shango was hard.....I might just have to travel to the Netherlands to try and practice my new "almost" language, when this is over.   

Klaas can you point me to which is which or post here also please.  I have a long time question that I am trying to figure out.  thanks

The photos are recently posted in the Dutch thead:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.msg367280#new

A little background on the two different Sloot compound pics.  The original picture shows the houses next door to the Sloots, etc.  The photoshopped pic has the neighbor's homes photoshopped out plus some other things.  I believe the photoshopped picture was found on the Judicial Inc website.

OK, taking the picture of the non photoshopped house-
When Beth and Greta arrived unexpectedly at the gate and were invited in to the VDS home, Paul emerged from the bushes and there was a 'front door' behind him.  That couldn't have been the main living area, but for the life of me, I can't figure out which building he emerged from from this shot.  Where is the big gate, is it blocked by the truck in these pictures? The ciruclar driveway? where is it?  I just can't get it in my mind.

[klaasend]

Oh, I get a knot in my chest reading Janet's post.  They were so hopeful about a smooth recovery and so confident that there wouldn't be Dutch/ALE interference.  It sure sounds like they knew which boat was used, so they must also know who Fin's fifth suspect is.

I thought it was GVC?? Man, I need to pay better attention. 

Lala's - I've given up on the 5th suspect.  Personally I still lean towards "L" 

[klaasend]

Klaas and *******

On the "Dutch" thread, I think johan thinks the photoshopped VDS house picture is the real one and the real picture has "new" houses built.  I tried to explain but I think someone needs to post "the real" picture and the possible date of the shopped one.  Geesh....I thought Shango was hard.....I might just have to travel to the Netherlands to try and practice my new "almost" language, when this is over.   

Klaas can you point me to which is which or post here also please.  I have a long time question that I am trying to figure out.  thanks

The photos are recently posted in the Dutch thead:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.msg367280#new

A little background on the two different Sloot compound pics.  The original picture shows the houses next door to the Sloots, etc.  The photoshopped pic has the neighbor's homes photoshopped out plus some other things.  I believe the photoshopped picture was found on the Judicial Inc website.

OK, taking the picture of the non photoshopped house-
When Beth and Greta arrived unexpectedly at the gate and were invited in to the VDS home, Paul emerged from the bushes and there was a 'front door' behind him.  That couldn't have been the main living area, but for the life of me, I can't figure out which building he emerged from from this shot.  Where is the big gate, is it blocked by the truck in these pictures? The ciruclar driveway? where is it?  I just can't get it in my mind.

AZSunny - does this help?

[SS]

Oh, I get a knot in my chest reading Janet's post.  They were so hopeful about a smooth recovery and so confident that there wouldn't be Dutch/ALE interference.  It sure sounds like they knew which boat was used, so they must also know who Fin's fifth suspect is.

I thought it was GVC?? Man, I need to pay better attention. 

A few days ago, Fin sent us on a chase through old ancestral trees of Solagnier and Croes to find a fifth suspect.  We came up with Steve Croes and Tatoo.

[klaasend]

Oh, I get a knot in my chest reading Janet's post.  They were so hopeful about a smooth recovery and so confident that there wouldn't be Dutch/ALE interference.  It sure sounds like they knew which boat was used, so they must also know who Fin's fifth suspect is.

I thought it was GVC?? Man, I need to pay better attention. 

A few days ago, Fin sent us on a chase through old ancestral trees of Solagnier and Croes to find a fifth suspect.  We came up with Steve Croes and Tatoo.

Everyone has their own ideas about the 5th.  No reason to believe Fin's nor mine over anyone elses. 

[Lala'sMom]

I do not think Steve Croes is the 5th suspect.  He does not fit all the criteria..yet. I at one time thought that too, but not now.

[SS]

I do not think Steve Croes is the 5th suspect.  He does not fit all the criteria..yet. I at one time thought that too, but not now.

At this point, I don't feel sure about anything.  Fin told us to shake the ancestral tree to see who fell out.  Supposedly, this person would be the fifth suspect.  Rufo Solognier (ret. police chief) is the uncle and neighbor of Steve Croes who had access to Tatoo.