Natalee Case Discussion #745 3/25 - 4/4/08

[hotping]

Goodnight Monkeys!!

Keep up the GOOD FIGHT!

  (I hope my smiley is giving the peace sign -  I'm a child of the 70's)


 

Good Night KYcat!

[texasmom]

Goodnight Monkeys!!

Keep up the GOOD FIGHT!

  (I hope my smiley is giving the peace sign -  I'm a child of the 70's)


 

Goodnight KYcat! 

[texasmom]

Goodnight Everyone!

[crazybabyborg]

Hi Guys! 

I think there are lots of reasons Beth would focus on Joran with her feelings. She was face to face with him within hours of Natalee's disappearance, and she can measure his reaction that night in light of what he admitted to, later in the confession. She also fought hard to have him held accountable according to all the mounting evidence throughout the case. She has said many times that the "not knowing" what happened to Natalee was the absolute hardest part and she knows that Joran chose to put her through that. By all accounts, Joran was the one that Natalee left with and she believes, as most people do, that he drugged her. Joran thought of his own butt when Natalee was suffering and dying, instead of taking any measure to help her. The only possible help she could have received was dependent upon Joran and he chose to worry about himself rather than give her a chance to live. She has watched him go free over and over again, knowing he knew the answers she was desperate for.

I'm not sure anyone, including Beth, is 100% sure Joran's tale about Daury is true. She may wonder if Daury is Paulus, but she knows, indeed heard it from his own mouth, that Joran was with Natalee when she died and that he didn't lift a finger to help her. She's directed her anger at Joran and also some at Paulus, very appropriately. To a lesser degree, I've seen her seem frustrated and somewhat angry at Deepak and Satish and I believe that's because she knows they know more than what they are saying. They have stood in the way of a Mother even being giving the decency of knowing what happened to her daughter, at the very least and also holding information for the responsible parties being brought to justice.That's also very appropriate. Lastly, Beth has shown some anger towards the law enforcement persons that certainly have hindered the investigation and also kept justice from going forward. All of those reactions are very appropriate, IMO.

[hotping]

Hi Guys! 

I think there are lots of reasons Beth would focus on Joran with her feelings. She was face to face with him within hours of Natalee's disappearance, and she can measure his reaction that night in light of what he admitted to, later in the confession. She also fought hard to have him held accountable according to all the mounting evidence throughout the case. She has said many times that the "not knowing" what happened to Natalee was the absolute hardest part and she knows that Joran chose to put her through that. By all accounts, Joran was the one that Natalee left with and she believes, as most people do, that he drugged her. Joran thought of his own butt when Natalee was suffering and dying, instead of taking any measure to help her. The only possible help she could have received was dependent upon Joran and he chose to worry about himself rather than give her a chance to live. She has watched him go free over and over again, knowing he knew the answers she was desperate for.

I'm not sure anyone, including Beth, is 100% sure Joran's tale about Daury is true. She may wonder if Daury is Paulus, but she knows, indeed heard it from his own mouth, that Joran was with Natalee when she died and that he didn't lift a finger to help her. She's directed her anger at Joran and also some at Paulus, very appropriately. To a lesser degree, I've seen her seem frustrated and somewhat angry at Deepak and Satish and I believe that's because she knows they know more than what they are saying. They have stood in the way of a Mother even being giving the decency of knowing what happened to her daughter, at the very least and also holding information for the responsible parties being brought to justice.That's also very appropriate. Lastly, Beth has shown some anger towards the law enforcement persons that certainly have hindered the investigation and also kept justice from going forward. All of those reactions are very appropriate, IMO.

Great Post CBB! From All Indications Joran Started This Horrible Event and Beth has Every Right to Feel The Way She does About Him!

[hotping]

Good Night All!

[Bearlyhere]

O/T but I know how we love our Photoshop here.   

Free Web version of Photoshop launches
By AMANDA FEHD, Associated Press Writer

SAN FRANCISCO - The maker of the popular photo-editing software Photoshop on Thursday launched a basic version available for free online.

San Jose, Calif.-based Adobe Systems Inc. says it hopes to boost its name recognition among a new generation of consumers who edit, store and share photos online.

While Photoshop is designed for trained professionals, Adobe says Photoshop Express, which it launched in a "beta" test version, is easier to learn. User comments will be taken into account for future upgrades.

Photoshop Express will be completely Web-based so consumers can use it with any type of computer, operating system and browser. And, once they register, users can get to their accounts from different computers.

Web-based software is increasingly popular, and Adobe knows it's got to get on that train, said Kathleen Maher, an analyst at Jon Peddie Research.

Many kinds of software are available for use online in a trend known as "software as a service," or "cloud computing." The earliest were e-mail programs, but they now include services to create and manage content and even whole operating systems. And they don't require time-consuming upgrades because they're maintained by the service provider.

Google Inc. provides a host of such services, as do Microsoft Corp. and others.

"This is the battlefield where Adobe and Microsoft and Google are going to fight some pretty big battles," Maher said.

Photoshop enters the online photo-management arena many years after such services first appeared. Some companies have already made a big name for themselves, like 9-year-old storage solution Shutterfly Inc., photo-editing service Picnik or image-sharing site Photobucket Inc.

Adobe says providing Photoshop Express for free is part marketing and part a strategy to create up-sell opportunities. It hopes some customers will move from it to boxed software like its $99 Photoshop Elements or to a subscription-based version of Express that's in the works.

Ron Glaz, a research analyst at IDC, says the move was necessary for Adobe to keep pace. Users are less likely to switch to a software they aren't familiar with, he said.

"They have a whole market that they are missing out on, and they need to make sure that the market is aware there is a Photoshop solution for them. As that market grows and becomes more sophisticated, hopefully it will generate money," Glaz said.

"It's one of those things, if you can't beat them, join them," Glaz said. "If they don't join them, the long run could be really painful."

___

On the Web: http://www.photoshop.com/express
****************************
Go to it Monkeys!!!

 

[Tater]

This is certainly only my opinion and if it is inappropriate, please feel free to delete.  I don't know a lot about posting at forums, actually I don't know ANYTHING about posting.  I just know that I have followed this case from the very start and it broke my heart and filled me with such outrage at the injustice of it all.  I don't feel like I am part of the SM group but I feel comfortable here reading and learning.  I have read at other forums and one in particular is filled with such hate and venom for Natalee and her family that it sickens me to read there.  I just can't believe some of the vile things said there and don't understand how anyone could possibly feel that way about Natalee and her family since they are the victims in this situation. 

Just the fact that Joran and PVDs said they "know more but won't tell it now because it would hurt certain people".  Unbelievable!!  A young woman is missing/murdered, her family is devasted, and the Sloots are worried about hurting certain people!  WHO?  WHO CARES!  This family has been HURT beyond comprehension.  Not one of the suspects has been held accountable for any of their lies and actions.  People think Beth has acted inappropriately.  Give me a break.  Beth and Dave, etal, have done exactly what all parents should do - FIGHT LIKE HELL FOR JUSTICE FOR THEIR DAUGHTER!

Just my opinion - like I said you can delete if you want - I don't know where to post what so this might not even be the place to post the above comments. 

Thanks for letting me vent 




 

Glad to have you here KYcat..

[Destiny]

Hi Guys! 

I think there are lots of reasons Beth would focus on Joran with her feelings. She was face to face with him within hours of Natalee's disappearance, and she can measure his reaction that night in light of what he admitted to, later in the confession. She also fought hard to have him held accountable according to all the mounting evidence throughout the case. She has said many times that the "not knowing" what happened to Natalee was the absolute hardest part and she knows that Joran chose to put her through that. By all accounts, Joran was the one that Natalee left with and she believes, as most people do, that he drugged her. Joran thought of his own butt when Natalee was suffering and dying, instead of taking any measure to help her. The only possible help she could have received was dependent upon Joran and he chose to worry about himself rather than give her a chance to live. She has watched him go free over and over again, knowing he knew the answers she was desperate for.

I'm not sure anyone, including Beth, is 100% sure Joran's tale about Daury is true. She may wonder if Daury is Paulus, but she knows, indeed heard it from his own mouth, that Joran was with Natalee when she died and that he didn't lift a finger to help her. She's directed her anger at Joran and also some at Paulus, very appropriately. To a lesser degree, I've seen her seem frustrated and somewhat angry at Deepak and Satish and I believe that's because she knows they know more than what they are saying. They have stood in the way of a Mother even being giving the decency of knowing what happened to her daughter, at the very least and also holding information for the responsible parties being brought to justice.That's also very appropriate. Lastly, Beth has shown some anger towards the law enforcement persons that certainly have hindered the investigation and also kept justice from going forward. All of those reactions are very appropriate, IMO.

Exactly!  Excellent post CBB...

p.s.  CBB...I know how very busy you are...sometime in the future...do you think the very talented YOU, can dress me in a new AVI...one with a headphone/telephone thingie?...it seems appropriate...TIA...Destiny

[Nut44x4]

Morning all. I have been quiet for a while, but still here reading everyday. The comment by KYcat re: 'people would be hurt' made me come out of the woodwork, lol. I cannot recall which one (PvdS or Joran) said it this way:  "TOO MANY people would be hurt" .
~~
Can you say......HOUSE OF CARDS??????????

[CarolinaCull]

Good morning Monkeys!  After nearly 3 years of lurking, I finally decided to sign up.  Like all of you, I was fascinated with this story from the beginning.  I've enjoyed keeping up with the latest news on the case through SM and feel that I know many of you already.  Red, Klaas, and all Monkeys should be very proud of all the contributions that this community has made to the NH investigation. While more answers are needed, it goes without saying that without SM keeping this case alive, we'd know far less than we do at this point.  It's a refreshing feeling to see a group of people that give so much of themselves, of their time, and care so much for this young woman and her family.  I'm just thankful that I've been able to be a part of it (albeit silently, until now).

I've had some personal issues lately (sick family member) and have been unable to keep up as much as I normally do.  After some very "rushed" catching-up, it appears there's really no new news over the past couple weeks?  Any recent word on the whereabouts of that lying, scumsucking POS, better known as JVDS?  Any updates out of Aruba?  I have a feeling the PDV continues to look for answers and, hopefully, something will turn up soon (either thru him or someone else).  Any word on the remaining targets that need to be searched in the ocean (plans to return and complete the search)?

Again, thanks for all you guys do, and have done, for the family and the case.  While I don't know any of them personally, I know they are extremely thankful to have such a great bunch of people supporting their efforts!

[MumInOhio]

Morning all. I have been quiet for a while, but still here reading everyday. The comment by KYcat re: 'people would be hurt' made me come out of the woodwork, lol. I cannot recall which one (PvdS or Joran) said it this way:  "TOO MANY people would be hurt" .
~~
Can you say......HOUSE OF CARDS??????????

Hi Nut...See you are still busy in Missing Person's...Thanks for all the updates!

IIRC that quote came from Paulus. Joran's was he 'wasn't ready to tell it all yet' or words to that effect!

[MumInOhio]

Good morning Monkeys!  After nearly 3 years of lurking, I finally decided to sign up.  Like all of you, I was fascinated with this story from the beginning.  I've enjoyed keeping up with the latest news on the case through SM and feel that I know many of you already.  Red, Klaas, and all Monkeys should be very proud of all the contributions that this community has made to the NH investigation. While more answers are needed, it goes without saying that without SM keeping this case alive, we'd know far less than we do at this point.  It's a refreshing feeling to see a group of people that give so much of themselves, of their time, and care so much for this young woman and her family.  I'm just thankful that I've been able to be a part of it (albeit silently, until now).

I've had some personal issues lately (sick family member) and have been unable to keep up as much as I normally do.  After some very "rushed" catching-up, it appears there's really no new news over the past couple weeks?  Any recent word on the whereabouts of that lying, scumsucking POS, better known as JVDS?  Any updates out of Aruba?  I have a feeling the PDV continues to look for answers and, hopefully, something will turn up soon (either thru him or someone else).  Any word on the remaining targets that need to be searched in the ocean (plans to return and complete the search)?

Again, thanks for all you guys do, and have done, for the family and the case.  While I don't know any of them personally, I know they are extremely thankful to have such a great bunch of people supporting their efforts!

Welcome CarolinaCull...Nice to have you join us...

PDV has new shows coming soon, not sure what he has going on with Natalee's case though. Our Dutch posters are more up with this than I am, sorry!

[Rob]

Morning all. I have been quiet for a while, but still here reading everyday. The comment by KYcat re: 'people would be hurt' made me come out of the woodwork, lol. I cannot recall which one (PvdS or Joran) said it this way:  "TOO MANY people would be hurt" .
~~
Can you say......HOUSE OF CARDS??????????

Hi Nut...See you are still busy in Missing Person's...Thanks for all the updates!

IIRC that quote came from Paulus. Joran's was he 'wasn't ready to tell it all yet' or words to that effect!

HI MUM... Joran will tell more someday, but not ready to do that now. - Current Affair interview when he was ambushed after school in Arnheim.

Paulus would tell more, but too many other people would be hurt. Not exactly sure where this quote is attributed... but he did say it.

[Observer]

Paul van der Sloot said in a phone conversation with Peter de Vries that they had a lot to tell but they will not do that just now because of people involved who could be hurt by this information

[MumInOhio]

Morning all. I have been quiet for a while, but still here reading everyday. The comment by KYcat re: 'people would be hurt' made me come out of the woodwork, lol. I cannot recall which one (PvdS or Joran) said it this way:  "TOO MANY people would be hurt" .
~~
Can you say......HOUSE OF CARDS??????????

Hi Nut...See you are still busy in Missing Person's...Thanks for all the updates!

IIRC that quote came from Paulus. Joran's was he 'wasn't ready to tell it all yet' or words to that effect!

HI MUM... Joran will tell more someday, but not ready to do that now. - Current Affair interview when he was ambushed after school in Arnheim.

Paulus would tell more, but too many other people would be hurt. Not exactly sure where this quote is attributed... but he did say it.

Hi Rob and Thanks...I think Paulus' comment was made in Holland, one of his interviews, but don't quote me...LOL...Thanks *******!

[Rob]

Paul van der Sloot said in a phone conversation with Peter de Vries that they had a lot to tell but they will not do that just now because of people involved who could be hurt by this information

I guess Joran was ready in the Land Rover... and Hans Mos only requests one interview. Sheezz!!!

[Observer]

Paul van der Sloot said in a phone conversation with Peter de Vries that they had a lot to tell but they will not do that just now because of people involved who could be hurt by this information

I guess Joran was ready in the Land Rover... and Hans Mos only requests one interview. Sheezz!!!

Morning Everyone!

Hans is aware they both said those statements and would tell more at there choosing,he said on record why not now when he arrested Joran..Unfortunately PVDS told Joran to say nothing and he followed the fatherly advice. When JK2 said nothing Hans said he expected it

[Observer]

Amigoe.com

No settlement yet public employees and government

During a meeting in the union building of the Seppa in Hato yesterday afternoon, more than 100 public employees listened to the results of the special committee about the labour conflict.

ORANJESTAD – Despite the special committee that was set up through the judge last week, the public employees and the government didn’t get closer to one another on the labour conflict.  The ultimatum that both parties agreed upon in the courtroom in Wayaca lapsed yesterday at noon, without success.

According to union leader Magaly Bito, this is reason for new actions.  On behalf of the protesting public employees, she gives the government till Monday to come with a ‘better proposal’ than was offered during the negotiations.  “We will go on strike again on Tuesday if the government does not come with an agreement on the indexation of the salaries”, said Brito during a meeting in the Seppa union building yesterday that was attended by more than 100 members.   

It seems that since the special committee was established, the government and the unions are further apart than ever.  Instead of Easter Monday as was agreed in court, the parties met on Good Friday already.  During that meeting, the government proposed right away to pay the public employees 65 florins per month in compensations.  Brito, who represents the unions in the committee, rejected that immediately.  The deliberation continued on Saturday and on Sunday.  All viewpoints were finally discussed on Monday, but yesterday it appeared that the parties didn’t make much progress.  The unions were talking about their rights and the government was talking about what is financially feasible, considering the budget and the financial deficit.  If the government goes for the demands of the unions, it will have to go at the expense of the entire Aruban economy, says Finance-minister Nilo Swaen.

Based on the report of the committee conversations, the judge will make a decision, but he can also send the parties back to the negotiation table. 

CORRECT FIGURES

The unions and the government disagree mainly about the correct interpretation of the figures.  According to the public employees, the government manipulates the figures.  The government first wanted to pay 950 florins compensation per year, which is 80 florins per month, but now they are talking about 65 florins per month.  According to calculations, 65 florins per month would mean 14 million florins on the budget of the government.  There was nobody available at Bureau Information or the ministry of Finance that could give more information on this.



OM appeals five cases

ORANJESTAD – The Public Prosecutor (OM) has appealed five decisions of the Court in the Fondo Desaroyo Nobo (FDN) case.  The OM wants the Joint Court of the Neth.Antilles and Aruba to go into the verdicts of the judge in the cases against former Premier Henny Eman, Tico Croes, Ronald Sint Jago, Otmar Oduber, and Roy Maduro.  The OM announced this in a press release on Tuesday.

In the case against Henny Eman, the OM wants the Joint Court of Justice to decide on the question if and under what conditions ministers are individually liable for decisions made in the council of ministers.  The OM also wants clarity on the status of a so-called explanatory memorandum on the budget.  If in the budget is described in details what certain moneys are to be spend on, is it allowed to use these moneys on something else?  More clarity on the budget overspending in the years 1999-2001 is also important for the OM.  The judge decided that it is not up to the Court in First Instance to calculate and compare everything.  He said that these issues need more considerations.

In the case against the director of Finance, Ronald Sint Jago, the OM wants the Court to decide on to what extent St. Jago was aware that the contracting rules were not complied with and if it was his responsibility to make sure these rules were complied with.

BRIBERY

In the case of Otmar Oduber, the then financial employee of the office of the Finance-minister, the OM appeals the verdict of the judge, who acquitted him on all charges, even on bribery.  The OM is of the opinion that the Appeals Court should consider the dossier some more and decide on the amounts of money paid to the suspect.   

The OM also appeals the verdict of Finance-minister Tico Croes, who was acquitted on all charges.   The OM is of the opinion that Croes must be judged again based on evidence of bribery.

[Observer]

I just wanted to add to the discussions yesterday about Joran..
----------------------------------------

Joran van der Sloot’s neighbour: “Joran bragged about what happened with Natalee”

Joran van der Sloot was living untill recently together with 3 other students in an apartment in Arnhem.

According to his neighbour, Joran was a very intimidating young man. “ When I would complain about the noise or called the police, he threatened me. I have lived in fear for almost 2 years.”.

Jorans neighbour does not want to say everything about Joran yet, she prefers to wait untill the show of Peter r. de Vries is broadcasted.

“ From the moment on that he came to live here, short after what happened in Aruba, I had a tensed relationship with Joran and his fellow students, they were causing a lot of noise, under the influence of alcohol or drugs. If I would say something about it, Joran threatened me. Several times I went to the police and pressed charges”.

According to the neighbour, Joran was very clear and noisy about what happened between him and Natalee Holloway. “ He was bragging about it to his friends, I can hear anything through these walls. He also said strange things during parties. He was very disrespectful towards Natalee. The guys he was living with heart the details several times. I don’t understand that the police didn’t talk to them yet.”.

Joran van der Sloots former neighbour knows who the man is that tricked Joran with a hidden camera. “When I picked it all up right in the news, it’s the man who suddenly became a regular visitor at the house. He was older, from Aruba. He was befriended with Joran and also always present at the parties.”.

http://www.natalee-holloway-case.com/joran-van-der-sloots-neighbour-joran-bragged-about-what-happened-with