Natalee Case Discussion #745 3/25 - 4/4/08

[Observer]

Two articles in todays Solo Di Pueblo about Jossy. This is a MEP newspaper so I am assuming they are blasting Jossy in this paper.

[Tamikosmom]

Paul van der Sloot said in a phone conversation with Peter de Vries that they had a lot to tell but they will not do that just now because of people involved who could be hurt by this information

******* ... In the ACA interview ... Joran words mirrored Paulus'.

Janet

++++++++++

Joran van der Sloot
A CURRENT AFFAIR
September 26, 2005

Harris Faulkner:  Well, I think if you can explain to people what really happened, and you were really forthcoming, the more forthcoming you are, the more chance there will be for you to get on with your life.
 
Joran van der Sloot: One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that.

[crazybabyborg]

Paul van der Sloot said in a phone conversation with Peter de Vries that they had a lot to tell but they will not do that just now because of people involved who could be hurt by this information

******* ... In the ACA interview ... Joran words mirrored Paulus'.

Janet

++++++++++

Joran van der Sloot
A CURRENT AFFAIR
September 26, 2005

Harris Faulkner:  Well, I think if you can explain to people what really happened, and you were really forthcoming, the more forthcoming you are, the more chance there will be for you to get on with your life.
 
Joran van der Sloot: One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that.

Yes, It seems that was the pre-planned, pat answer.

[Tamikosmom]

Hi Janet,

when you 'read around' there are posts that Beth / the family lied, manipulated...well just about everything .
To give you an example...a recent thing: if Jorans confession is true in general (which she believes) why isn't Beth 'mad' at Daury but seems to express anger only towards Joran in interviews?

Daury is the one that dumped Natalee in the ocean; and in that way the possible murderer of Natalee. Of course Joran was the one that was with Natalee and didn't get help; he started the whole cover up & lied about it for years - made money of it...

But Daury is the one who disposed of Natalee....the one that actually threw her daughter in the ocean while Joran was walking home / chatting / downloading porn. And yet she doesn't mention any anger in her recent press towards him. She did state in the Peter R. de Vries show 'Look at what they've done' but after this it seems she stayed quiet concerning Daury.....


Maybe she's only doing this because Joran is the only one she knows the true identity of and the one who holds a big responsibility...maybe she doubts the Daurypart in the confession...could all be...but it seems a bit weird.

GBMW ... why do you have to analysis Beth's reaction.  Can you not just give this anguished mother the benefit of the doubt that her response has a foundation.

Joran was in a position to get help for her daughter who was in distress.  What did he do?  He call on an unknown assistance with a boat to take her out to sea and dump her.  In otherwords ... a hitman.

It makes perfect sense to me that Beth's anger would be focused on Joran.  Joran put the chain of events into motion that led to Natalee's death ... Natalee's disappearance.

Janet


++++++++++++

Holloway Suspect: 'I Know What Happened'
Dutch Student Said Natalee Holloway's Body Was Dumped in the Ocean
February 3, 2008

In one taped conversation, van der Sloot told van der Eem that Holloway visibly convulsed "like a movie," that she was shaking "a lot."
 
"Did you try CPR on her?" asked van der Eem.
 
"Of course, I tried everything," van der Sloot said. "I tried to shake her. I was shaking the bitch. I was like, 'What is wrong with you man?' I almost wanted to cry. Why does this s*** have to happen to me?"

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=4222253&page

Jug Twitty
NANCY GRACE
February 15, 2008

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How were you so sure she was dead, Joran? You can`t. You know, people can also go into comas.

JORAN VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): Yes, I wasn`t sure about that, but it really scared me to death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): No, but I understand that. I definitely understand that, that you were scared. Did you really prod her and stuff?

VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): No, no, but it didn`t look good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How didn`t it look good, then?

VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): Just, you know, she`d been shaking and stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): What, really shaking?

VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): Yes, I don`t know, yes, pretty much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I`m asking you. How were you so (expletive deleted) she was dead, man?

VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I wasn`t sure.

<snipped>

(END VIDEOTAPE) 

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/15/ng.01.html

[Observer]

Paul van der Sloot said in a phone conversation with Peter de Vries that they had a lot to tell but they will not do that just now because of people involved who could be hurt by this information

******* ... In the ACA interview ... Joran words mirrored Paulus'.

Janet

++++++++++

Joran van der Sloot
A CURRENT AFFAIR
September 26, 2005

Harris Faulkner:  Well, I think if you can explain to people what really happened, and you were really forthcoming, the more forthcoming you are, the more chance there will be for you to get on with your life.
 
Joran van der Sloot: One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that.

Yes, It seems that was the pre-planned, pat answer.

Yup..Almost seems like they are talking about a sporting event or something instead of a missing girl..Makes me angry as hell that they can say or do most anything and never have to face justice,or tell Natalee's loved ones what they did with her.

[jackb]

O/T but I know how we love our Photoshop here.   

Free Web version of Photoshop launches
By AMANDA FEHD, Associated Press Writer

SAN FRANCISCO - The maker of the popular photo-editing software Photoshop on Thursday launched a basic version available for free online.

San Jose, Calif.-based Adobe Systems Inc. says it hopes to boost its name recognition among a new generation of consumers who edit, store and share photos online.

While Photoshop is designed for trained professionals, Adobe says Photoshop Express, which it launched in a "beta" test version, is easier to learn. User comments will be taken into account for future upgrades.

Photoshop Express will be completely Web-based so consumers can use it with any type of computer, operating system and browser. And, once they register, users can get to their accounts from different computers.

Web-based software is increasingly popular, and Adobe knows it's got to get on that train, said Kathleen Maher, an analyst at Jon Peddie Research.

Many kinds of software are available for use online in a trend known as "software as a service," or "cloud computing." The earliest were e-mail programs, but they now include services to create and manage content and even whole operating systems. And they don't require time-consuming upgrades because they're maintained by the service provider.

Google Inc. provides a host of such services, as do Microsoft Corp. and others.

"This is the battlefield where Adobe and Microsoft and Google are going to fight some pretty big battles," Maher said.

Photoshop enters the online photo-management arena many years after such services first appeared. Some companies have already made a big name for themselves, like 9-year-old storage solution Shutterfly Inc., photo-editing service Picnik or image-sharing site Photobucket Inc.

Adobe says providing Photoshop Express for free is part marketing and part a strategy to create up-sell opportunities. It hopes some customers will move from it to boxed software like its $99 Photoshop Elements or to a subscription-based version of Express that's in the works.

Ron Glaz, a research analyst at IDC, says the move was necessary for Adobe to keep pace. Users are less likely to switch to a software they aren't familiar with, he said.

"They have a whole market that they are missing out on, and they need to make sure that the market is aware there is a Photoshop solution for them. As that market grows and becomes more sophisticated, hopefully it will generate money," Glaz said.

"It's one of those things, if you can't beat them, join them," Glaz said. "If they don't join them, the long run could be really painful."

___

On the Web: http://www.photoshop.com/express
****************************
Go to it Monkeys!!!

 

  Just remember if you can get into it, others can also.  PAINT SHOP PRO is a better program if you learn it and you have more control over it.  Most of these new programs are set up and privacy is compromised.  Virus' are spread through pictures and music in many instances.  Just thought I would throw that in. 
It seems you have to watch a lot of new things and "improved" things coming on the market.   j/b

[jackb]

O/T but I know how we love our Photoshop here.   

Free Web version of Photoshop launches
By AMANDA FEHD, Associated Press Writer

SAN FRANCISCO - The maker of the popular photo-editing software Photoshop on Thursday launched a basic version available for free online.

San Jose, Calif.-based Adobe Systems Inc. says it hopes to boost its name recognition among a new generation of consumers who edit, store and share photos online.

While Photoshop is designed for trained professionals, Adobe says Photoshop Express, which it launched in a "beta" test version, is easier to learn. User comments will be taken into account for future upgrades.

Photoshop Express will be completely Web-based so consumers can use it with any type of computer, operating system and browser. And, once they register, users can get to their accounts from different computers.

Web-based software is increasingly popular, and Adobe knows it's got to get on that train, said Kathleen Maher, an analyst at Jon Peddie Research.

Many kinds of software are available for use online in a trend known as "software as a service," or "cloud computing." The earliest were e-mail programs, but they now include services to create and manage content and even whole operating systems. And they don't require time-consuming upgrades because they're maintained by the service provider.

Google Inc. provides a host of such services, as do Microsoft Corp. and others.

"This is the battlefield where Adobe and Microsoft and Google are going to fight some pretty big battles," Maher said.

Photoshop enters the online photo-management arena many years after such services first appeared. Some companies have already made a big name for themselves, like 9-year-old storage solution Shutterfly Inc., photo-editing service Picnik or image-sharing site Photobucket Inc.

Adobe says providing Photoshop Express for free is part marketing and part a strategy to create up-sell opportunities. It hopes some customers will move from it to boxed software like its $99 Photoshop Elements or to a subscription-based version of Express that's in the works.

Ron Glaz, a research analyst at IDC, says the move was necessary for Adobe to keep pace. Users are less likely to switch to a software they aren't familiar with, he said.

"They have a whole market that they are missing out on, and they need to make sure that the market is aware there is a Photoshop solution for them. As that market grows and becomes more sophisticated, hopefully it will generate money," Glaz said.

"It's one of those things, if you can't beat them, join them," Glaz said. "If they don't join them, the long run could be really painful."

___

On the Web: http://www.photoshop.com/express
****************************
Go to it Monkeys!!!

 

There are always "strings" attached to free things.  I use several programs in conjunction with one another at times.  No program has all the features.  Easier is not always better, as someone is out there with access.  Just be careful if you have evidential pictures for cases in there or what you want protected such as your family pictures.  Keep these on an outside disk that is not for sharing, etc.
Well, enough said on that.  I just wanted to keep the "cage" around the monks.
J/b

[jackb]

Paul van der Sloot said in a phone conversation with Peter de Vries that they had a lot to tell but they will not do that just now because of people involved who could be hurt by this information

******* ... In the ACA interview ... Joran words mirrored Paulus'.

Janet

++++++++++

Joran van der Sloot
A CURRENT AFFAIR
September 26, 2005

Harris Faulkner:  Well, I think if you can explain to people what really happened, and you were really forthcoming, the more forthcoming you are, the more chance there will be for you to get on with your life.
 
Joran van der Sloot: One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that.

He an Palus both made an admission in that case.  The only people they don't want to hurt is themselves.  They know if the other people are going to be hurt, then they will go down with it.  jack blue

[Keepthefaith]

Thank You  Monkeys.  A great big thank you for all your hard work and research.  The Monkeys have brought so much information out on this case that I otherwise would never have known about.  I don't know how y'all do it.  If I can ever contribute anything that will help the cause I will certainly post it.  But I appreciate just being able to read and learn here.  Thanks again. 

Oh, and I'm sure we will show up on that "other site".  They seem to take such joy from bashing anyone that supports Natalee and family. 

One more thing, if the "other site" is reading this.....  Beth has acted with the utmost graciousness throughout this whole nightmare.  As a mother of four children, I can tell you that I would NOT have been so gracious if this had happened to one of mine.  I would have already ripped their F..... faces off.  Take a poll on that ..........
 

I totally agree! 

I agree as well.Complete and utter Graciousness.What a special Family Natalee has.My blood just starts to boil when i think of Joran and his fanily and friends.If you are a friend of that family after what they've said and done.Shame on you.OK.I'm stopping before i.......

Keepthefaith

[Tamikosmom]

Considering the interrogation questions presented to Jug and Beth on May 31, 2005 ... maybe the Court which disregarded Joran's words on the Devries video recording concerning the "shaking of Natalee Holloway" ... should have read Joran's missing May 31, 2005 statement.

Also ... I assume that Freddie's statement which Joran refers to in his book was overlooked.

Both these statements would have corroborated Joran's words to Patrick vander Eem.

Janet

+++++++++++


February 15, 2008
Court of Appeal upholds lower judge’s decision not to detain J.v.d.S.
J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues

<snipped>

The Office of the Public Prosecutor had requested such an order after the “Peter R de Vries-tapes” had been received by the Office and had been evaluated. Last week the Office appealed the ruling of refusal by the judge.

The reasons underlying the Court’s decision are the following.  The Court has seen the visual materials, has listened to the audio materials and has inspected the verbatim reports. Based on that, the Court is of the opinion that there is a lack of sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspect’s involvement in the crimes for which he is being held responsible by the prosecution.

<snipped>


Joran van der Sloot
ABC NEWS
February 3, 2008

In one taped conversation, van der Sloot told van der Eem that Holloway visibly convulsed "like a movie," that she was shaking "a lot."
 
"Did you try CPR on her?" asked van der Eem.
 
"Of course, I tried everything," van der Sloot said. "I tried to shake her. I was shaking the bitch. I was like, 'What is wrong with you man?' I almost wanted to cry. Why does this s*** have to happen to me?"

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=4222253&page


Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 8, 2008

HOLLOWAY: Well, Larry, I think that a lot of people have kind of stepped into this tangled web, into Joran's web, well into this journey, and we -- we have a lot of thing that were transpiring early on in the island of Aruba, within the first 48 hours of Natalee's disappearance, and had a stunning revelation when I was watching the taped admissions of Joran to Patrick. And, when he imitates how Natalee was suffering through the seizures, well, Larry, within 48 hours of Natalee's disappearance on the island of Aruba, a lead detective, Dennis Jacobs (ph), first and only medical question he asked me was, does Natalee have a history of epilepsy or seizures. And I said, no, why would you ask that?

And he only asked me that once, and from there forward, three other detectives asked Natalee's step father probably a dozen times, Larry. Jug had to come to me six times and ask me if Natalee had a history of epilepsy or seizure. And I kept saying no, why do you keep asking us that? Why? So, it brought it full circle for us.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/07/lkl.01.html


John Kelly
On the Record w/ Greta
February 20, 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Twi7-8OqS4
 
KELLY:  Let me throw one more thing in on that Greta.  On May 31st, Joran was the first person interviewed by Jacobs when he's taking statements. Every police report subsequent to that, the statements made by Deepak, made by Satish, made by Beth that day, we have them all, there is no statement from Joran until June 9th.
Unofficial Transcript


Joran van der Sloot
De Zaak Natalee Holloway
Page 161

After Freddy's second statement on June 13th at 18:30, in which he keeps insisting that I told him the first story already on May 30th, the police confront us as best friends with each other.  Some further statements follow after that.  In the end Freddy states in his 6th and 7th statements that I have told him that Natalee went unconscious several times and did not regain consciousness at a certain moment, that I tried to wake her up by shaking her but that but this also did not work.
Unofficial Engish translation

[Tamikosmom]

If the ultimate goal is truth, one should not be afraid to explore all possible scenarios regardless of people concerned or loyalties based on ones perception of afore mentioned truth. Truth is based on facts not emotions. This being said it does not mean i disagree with you.

JE ... in my opinion ... a dialogue that shifts the focus of attention from the main suspects and the corrupt Aruban investigation ... to the family of the victim ... the family who were not on the Island when Natalee Holloway went missing ... is a distraction from the truth that encompassing the events of May 30, 2005.

Joran, Deepak and Satish were the last persons observed with Natalee Holloway.  Joran, Deepak and Satish lied regarding their final encounter with Natalee Holloway.  Lies are created to cover the truth which implies that Joran, Deepak and Satish know the truth.

Think about it ... Joran, Deepak and Satish must have been aware that Natalee Holloway was deceased when they related the Holiday Inn dropoff.  Logic dictates that these guys would not collaborate an account that could be refuted if Natalee were to turn up.

Janet

Logic dictates that these guys would not collaborate an account that could be refuted if Natalee were to turn up.

If she turned up all previous would be meaningless. I paniced and made up a story would be accepted but not even relevant if she turned up. Just a few kids lying for whatever reason. But she didn't turn up. I am not that sure about kalpoes knowing the truth, more inclined to believe that joran knows the truth. The point i was trying to make is that it does not matter what I or you believe. That's just venting personal opinion based on personal perception. Ther's just so many loose ends in this case. We need facts not opinions. And in that light you should read my comment about exploring all possible scenarios. Speculation or opinions won't get a conviction. The truth is out there. Like the codetalkers said hidden in plain sight. I can't see it yet and that pi$%es me off. It's there and someone will make the connection someday. All i meant with previous post was: keep an open mind things are never black n white. Question everything.

JE ... Joran's words to Freddy as well as the gardener's observation implies to me that Deepak was a participant in the events encompassing the "something bad" that happened to Natalee Holloway.

Janet

+++++++++++

Freddy Arambatzis
Witness Statement
De Zaak Natalee Holloway
June 12, 2005

<snipped>

The next day, Tuesday May 31st 2005 in the afternoon, I was with Joran at the raquetclub. Joran looked worried. He asked me if I could remember what he had said the previous day about the girl. I told him yes. The girl had gone missing. The FBI had been to his house during the night but he had not been home. His father had called him to find out where he was, Joran said that he was in the Raddison Casino. He told he that after that phone call he was called on the phone by Deepak and that Deepak picked him up a few minutes later. They drove to Joran's house. The FBI and the girls family were at his house. After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and himself did not drop off the girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that THE FOUR OF THEM drove to the beach at the north side of the Marriot Hotel. The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that THEY had left her on the beach. He also told me that he had left his gym/sporting shoes on the beach. After Joran had told me this, I asked him why he had left her there. He answered me that at that moment he had not known what to do. Joran told me that after this HE WAS DROPPED OFF AT HOME BY DEEPAK AND SATISH.

Translation Credit: Rammstein


Carlos Ramos - Gardener
Court Hearing
August 15, 2005

I have seen the car in the morning of 30 May of Sunday on Monday. I went to Lorena on Monday night, then I went to work, told that I saw a car standing along the way when I drove along there. I cannot remember on which day I saw the photograph of the persons in the newspaper. The photograph, which the police force showed me, is the same photograph as the photograph that appeared in the Diario. You ask me how can I know or recognize the persons from the photograph in the newspaper or that I had seen that night. The first time then I saw the photograph in the Diario I had been astonished and I said that to colleagues. You represent me that I have explained that I have recognized the persons from their construction and mail hour. You ask me if I could see from my position in the car. My position was a bit is higher, in the turning I had drive concerning a sand hill as a result of which my position was a bit slanted. As a result, I could look at in the car. I have recognized the car from the rims. Also to the color and the transparent squares. You ask me if I can designate the persons, which sat in the car. Yes.


Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
July 26, 2005

MANSUR: Because they were trying to hide their faces at that the hour, because we have to remember that the two Kalpoe brothers and Joran held on to the statement that they dropped Joran off at the beach and then went home. But here we have someone that says categorically that they did not go home, they were in the car with Joran. Joran was sitting in the driver`s seat.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/26/ng.01.html


Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/lkl.01.html

[Bearlyhere]

Paul van der Sloot said in a phone conversation with Peter de Vries that they had a lot to tell but they will not do that just now because of people involved who could be hurt by this information

I guess Joran was ready in the Land Rover... and Hans Mos only requests one interview. Sheezz!!!

Morning Everyone!

Hans is aware they both said those statements and would tell more at there choosing,he said on record why not now when he arrested Joran..Unfortunately PVDS told Joran to say nothing and he followed the fatherly advice. When JK2 said nothing Hans said he expected it

*******, you look dapper!   

[Bearlyhere]

Paul van der Sloot said in a phone conversation with Peter de Vries that they had a lot to tell but they will not do that just now because of people involved who could be hurt by this information

******* ... In the ACA interview ... Joran words mirrored Paulus'.

Janet

++++++++++

Joran van der Sloot
A CURRENT AFFAIR
September 26, 2005

Harris Faulkner:  Well, I think if you can explain to people what really happened, and you were really forthcoming, the more forthcoming you are, the more chance there will be for you to get on with your life.
 
Joran van der Sloot: One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that.

Yes, It seems that was the pre-planned, pat answer.

CBB, I have no idea how you do it, but you do such a wonderful job with the avatars. 
 
You have seen us all nekkid and haven't batted an eyelash! 

[crazybabyborg]

LOL @ Bearly! 

Check Musings, Bearly! 

[Bearlyhere]

O/T but I know how we love our Photoshop here.   

Free Web version of Photoshop launches
By AMANDA FEHD, Associated Press Writer

SAN FRANCISCO - The maker of the popular photo-editing software Photoshop on Thursday launched a basic version available for free online.

<snip>
___

On the Web: http://www.photoshop.com/express
****************************
Go to it Monkeys!!!

 

There are always "strings" attached to free things.  I use several programs in conjunction with one another at times.  No program has all the features.  Easier is not always better, as someone is out there with access.  Just be careful if you have evidential pictures for cases in there or what you want protected such as your family pictures.  Keep these on an outside disk that is not for sharing, etc.
Well, enough said on that.  I just wanted to keep the "cage" around the monks.
J/b

Sorry j/b, I didn't know.  I would never do anything to hurt the monkeys or our home sweet home.
 

[Bearlyhere]

LOL @ Bearly! 

Check Musings, Bearly! 

Thanks, CBB, you brought tears to my eyes.  It's the best birthday present I got all week. 

[Tater]

Good morning Monkeys!  After nearly 3 years of lurking, I finally decided to sign up.  Like all of you, I was fascinated with this story from the beginning.  I've enjoyed keeping up with the latest news on the case through SM and feel that I know many of you already.  Red, Klaas, and all Monkeys should be very proud of all the contributions that this community has made to the NH investigation. While more answers are needed, it goes without saying that without SM keeping this case alive, we'd know far less than we do at this point.  It's a refreshing feeling to see a group of people that give so much of themselves, of their time, and care so much for this young woman and her family.  I'm just thankful that I've been able to be a part of it (albeit silently, until now).

I've had some personal issues lately (sick family member) and have been unable to keep up as much as I normally do.  After some very "rushed" catching-up, it appears there's really no new news over the past couple weeks?  Any recent word on the whereabouts of that lying, scumsucking POS, better known as JVDS?  Any updates out of Aruba?  I have a feeling the PDV continues to look for answers and, hopefully, something will turn up soon (either thru him or someone else).  Any word on the remaining targets that need to be searched in the ocean (plans to return and complete the search)?

Again, thanks for all you guys do, and have done, for the family and the case.  While I don't know any of them personally, I know they are extremely thankful to have such a great bunch of people supporting their efforts!

Welcome to the forum CarolinaCull ...

[Tater]

LOL @ Bearly! 

Check Musings, Bearly! 

Thanks, CBB, you brought tears to my eyes.  It's the best birthday present I got all week. 

Happy Birthday to you sweet BearlyHere..

[klaasend]

now the Moomba website has been hacked, lol 

http://moombabeach.com/

[dennisintn]

now the Moomba website has been hacked, lol 

http://moombabeach.com/

is the hacker leaving an email address for comments?  is there a clue about why this is being done?
dennisintn