Natalee Case Discussion #745 3/25 - 4/4/08

[caesu]

Advocaat-generaal per 1 juli weg

ORANJESTAD — Advocaat-generaal en waarnemend procureur-generaal Nico Jörg neemt op 1 juli afscheid van het Openbaar Ministerie. Hij heeft dat in een brief aan minister Rudy Croes van Justitie laten weten. Jörg keert na die datum terug naar Nederland waar hij zijn oude functie als advocaat-generaal aan het Gerechtshof in Den Haag weer zal gaan uitoefenen. (Amigoe)
 

Nico Jörg wrote Rudy Croes a letter that he is resigning 1 july.

[caesu]

OM in beroep in vijftal zaken

ORANJESTAD — Het Openbaar Ministerie (OM) heeft appèl ingesteld tegen een vijftal beslissingen van het Gerecht in de zaak Fondo Desaroyo Nobo (FDN). Het OM wil dat het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba zich buigt over de oordelen van de rechter in de zaken tegen voormalig premier Henny Eman, Tico Croes, Ronald Sint Jago, Otmar Oduber en Roy Maduro. Dit heeft het OM dinsdag bekendgemaakt in een persbericht. (Amigoe)
 

OM is appealing 5 rulings in Fondo Desaroyo Nobo corruption case.

[caesu]

Zorgen Bijleveld om corruptie

PHILIPSBURG — De Nederlandse staatssecretaris van Koninkrijksrelaties Ank Bijleveld-Schouten (CDA) maakt zich zorgen om het gebrek aan structuur op St. Maarten, waardoor corruptie mogelijk wordt. (Amigoe)

state secretary kingdom affairs Bijleveld worries about the lack of structure which enables corruption on St. Maarten.

[texasmom]

JE  thanks for translation.

GBMW (and JE)

I have never wasted my time analyzing actions of Natalee's family when they were not on the island and could not have been involved in her loss.  My concern was for my petite, blonde, 105 pound, traveling-the-world, daughter (who can enjoy a wine or two).  I could see it happening to me and mine.  My daughter is wise but also interested in "cultural" experiences and different people.  Natalee's loss happened in four days of leaving home.  Whatever influence, power, resources they could or can muster....I say use everything available or offered. There are many that are not afforded as many resources but that does not make the family that has help, an inferior family.
I don't know what's in Beth's mind or heart but it was just over a month ago that a tip sent them to Nicaragua.  Imagine always having a doubt of what happened...what to do...where to search.  I think it is reasonable to have doubted Joran because of all his lies.  If he was innocent, this would have been over long ago. The big question was "was Natalee still alive somewhere".  We know she quoted Joran's early statements accurately because between the PVs and his book we have seen many. All she said is that "those three boys know more".  She was right.  Joran kept her with a 1% chance of "do I need to search forever"...until he demonstrated her daughters distress, on video.  It doesn't matter who did the "final" disposal.  Her mother's instincts and the material many PIs, investigative reporters and profilers gathered was accurate.  Joran knew what happened to Natalee and did not care about anyone still searching for her. She pleaded with him the first night, she pleaded with his friend, she pleaded with his parents. Joran deserves every angry word directed at him. If he had said on day one, she seized and I gave her to a boat guy, she would have searched for Natalee by searching out the boat guy.   It's all about Natalee.

I missed this post somehow, until I saw other responses to it.  As Buckeye was making this post I was trying to find the words to respond to GBMW's questions about Beth's anger being directed at JVDS, and not at "Daury".  Buckeye had the words that I could not find.  Very well said, Buckeye!  I don't have a daughter so mine would have been different in some aspects.  And I would like to add; Our children are our children.  If one is taken we need to know how, why, when, where, and should expect in the least to be able to have a proper burial for that child.  There are situations where that's not possible; but this was not a natural disaster or situation such as 9/11/01.  The answers are known to some if not many on that island as to where Natalee is and exactly what happened to her.  It is unacceptable that the suspects in this case among others have been allowed to torment her family by witholding that information for almost 3 years.  Along with the torment of "we know, but we're not going to tell right now" they have tried in every way imaginable to tarnish the reputation of Natalee and her mother especially; and the family in general.  Not one of the ugly dispicable lies that have been written/spoken/posted anywhere have been proven, but they are always there for those who happen upon them looking for information on the case.  And of course there are those who are willing to add to those lies and speculation on a regular basis.  What astounds me about at least one of the known contributors to the misinformation is that she is a mother herself; of four children from what I've read.  I can't imagine what amount of money or favors would induce her to such venom.  Others, I'm not sure of, maybe just to be a part of something?  Some may hide behind screen names but their hatred and slander of a family in so much pain speaks volumes of the people they are.  God is a forgiving Father if they seek Him.  If not, I'm sure there will be a special place in hell for all of them and their lies. 

[texasmom]

Advocaat-generaal per 1 juli weg

ORANJESTAD — Advocaat-generaal en waarnemend procureur-generaal Nico Jörg neemt op 1 juli afscheid van het Openbaar Ministerie. Hij heeft dat in een brief aan minister Rudy Croes van Justitie laten weten. Jörg keert na die datum terug naar Nederland waar hij zijn oude functie als advocaat-generaal aan het Gerechtshof in Den Haag weer zal gaan uitoefenen. (Amigoe)
 

Nico Jörg wrote Rudy Croes a letter that he is resigning 1 july.

Thanks Caesu!  There was an article posted the other day although I couldn't understand most of it (Papiamento, I believe) it seemed to mention the retirement of Nico Jorg.  Does the article say that Mr. Jorg will work somewhere else?  Did it mention the date of September 1 for any reason, I thought I could decipher that also from the previous article that was posted.  Thanks so much for posting the translations of these articles! 

[caesu]

Advocaat-generaal per 1 juli weg

ORANJESTAD — Advocaat-generaal en waarnemend procureur-generaal Nico Jörg neemt op 1 juli afscheid van het Openbaar Ministerie. Hij heeft dat in een brief aan minister Rudy Croes van Justitie laten weten. Jörg keert na die datum terug naar Nederland waar hij zijn oude functie als advocaat-generaal aan het Gerechtshof in Den Haag weer zal gaan uitoefenen. (Amigoe)
 

Nico Jörg wrote Rudy Croes a letter that he is resigning 1 july.

Thanks Caesu!  There was an article posted the other day although I couldn't understand most of it (Papiamento, I believe) it seemed to mention the retirement of Nico Jorg.  Does the article say that Mr. Jorg will work somewhere else?  Did it mention the date of September 1 for any reason, I thought I could decipher that also from the previous article that was posted.  Thanks so much for posting the translations of these articles! 

he goes back to his old job advocate-general at the Higher Court in The Hague.
he became acting procureur-general of aruba in juli 2007.

i think he is leaving because rudy croes has a aruban procureur-general to take over (a crony i think).

[texasmom]

Advocaat-generaal per 1 juli weg

ORANJESTAD — Advocaat-generaal en waarnemend procureur-generaal Nico Jörg neemt op 1 juli afscheid van het Openbaar Ministerie. Hij heeft dat in een brief aan minister Rudy Croes van Justitie laten weten. Jörg keert na die datum terug naar Nederland waar hij zijn oude functie als advocaat-generaal aan het Gerechtshof in Den Haag weer zal gaan uitoefenen. (Amigoe)
 

Nico Jörg wrote Rudy Croes a letter that he is resigning 1 july.

Thanks Caesu!  There was an article posted the other day although I couldn't understand most of it (Papiamento, I believe) it seemed to mention the retirement of Nico Jorg.  Does the article say that Mr. Jorg will work somewhere else?  Did it mention the date of September 1 for any reason, I thought I could decipher that also from the previous article that was posted.  Thanks so much for posting the translations of these articles! 

he goes back to his old job advocate-general at the Higher Court in The Hague.
he became acting procureur-general of aruba in juli 2007.

i think he is leaving because rudy croes has a aruban procureur-general to take over (a crony i think).

Thanks Caesu!  I'm sure your thoughts are correct, re a crony.

[Tamikosmom]

Good Night Monkeys.

It is way past Ducky and my bedtime.

Janet
11:15 PM

[Kiwi]

Buckeye well said. All of us with daughters worry about the predators we discuss here. At least 3 of them have names and faces for all of us to keep an eye on forever!

[Spock]

Guys, I have never seen the news coming this slow before or the forums posting this few pages. Is there anything going on or is this case actually closed?

[Spock]

Guys, I have never seen the news coming this slow before or the forums posting this few pages. Is there anything going on or is this case actually closed?

My personal opinion is Mos has closed the case and he will do nothing more. Afterall, he has released all three as suspects.

[Bearlyhere]

Happy Birthday Bearlyhere!   

Thanks, Sis!

  

[Bearlyhere]

CBB, Thanks so much, I love it!   

Welcome to all the NEW Monkeys, it's nice to see other opinions. 

Happy Birthday too, to all the March Monkeys, mine and hubbys has just passed in March also.

All I can say is "WOW" to all the hackings.  They are good!  They even hit some really important sites too.  Definately left a message for Aruba IMO.

Happy Birthday Hotshot and Hubby!!!  Thanks for the good wishes.

 

[hotping]

Happy Birthday Bearlyhere!   

Thanks, Sis!

  

You're Welcome! My Birthday was the 15th of March....Pisces Rock! 

[Bearlyhere]

Happy Birthday Bearlyhere!   

Thanks, Sis!

  

You're Welcome! My Birthday was the 15th of March....Pisces Rock! 

Happy Birthday, Hotping!  I knew there was something I liked about you.

Aries Rock, too!

[hotping]

Happy Birthday Bearlyhere!   

Thanks, Sis!

  

You're Welcome! My Birthday was the 15th of March....Pisces Rock! 

Happy Birthday, Hotping!  I knew there was something I liked about you.

Aries Rock, too!

Thanks Sis! Yes...Aries Do Rock! Good Night The Dog Woke Me and Now its back to the Monkey Bunkey! Talk To Ya Later! 

[GBMW]

JE  thanks for translation.

GBMW (and JE)

I have never wasted my time analyzing actions of Natalee's family when they were not on the island and could not have been involved in her loss.  My concern was for my petite, blonde, 105 pound, traveling-the-world, daughter (who can enjoy a wine or two).  I could see it happening to me and mine.  My daughter is wise but also interested in "cultural" experiences and different people.  Natalee's loss happened in four days of leaving home.  Whatever influence, power, resources they could or can muster....I say use everything available or offered. There are many that are not afforded as many resources but that does not make the family that has help, an inferior family.
I don't know what's in Beth's mind or heart but it was just over a month ago that a tip sent them to Nicaragua.  Imagine always having a doubt of what happened...what to do...where to search.  I think it is reasonable to have doubted Joran because of all his lies.  If he was innocent, this would have been over long ago. The big question was "was Natalee still alive somewhere".  We know she quoted Joran's early statements accurately because between the PVs and his book we have seen many. All she said is that "those three boys know more".  She was right.  Joran kept her with a 1% chance of "do I need to search forever"...until he demonstrated her daughters distress, on video.  It doesn't matter who did the "final" disposal.  Her mother's instincts and the material many PIs, investigative reporters and profilers gathered was accurate.  Joran knew what happened to Natalee and did not care about anyone still searching for her. She pleaded with him the first night, she pleaded with his friend, she pleaded with his parents. Joran deserves every angry word directed at him. If he had said on day one, she seized and I gave her to a boat guy, she would have searched for Natalee by searching out the boat guy.   It's all about Natalee.

I missed this post somehow, until I saw other responses to it.  As Buckeye was making this post I was trying to find the words to respond to GBMW's questions about Beth's anger being directed at JVDS, and not at "Daury".  Buckeye had the words that I could not find.  Very well said, Buckeye!  I don't have a daughter so mine would have been different in some aspects.  And I would like to add; Our children are our children.  If one is taken we need to know how, why, when, where, and should expect in the least to be able to have a proper burial for that child.  There are situations where that's not possible; but this was not a natural disaster or situation such as 9/11/01.  The answers are known to some if not many on that island as to where Natalee is and exactly what happened to her.  It is unacceptable that the suspects in this case among others have been allowed to torment her family by witholding that information for almost 3 years.  Along with the torment of "we know, but we're not going to tell right now" they have tried in every way imaginable to tarnish the reputation of Natalee and her mother especially; and the family in general.  Not one of the ugly dispicable lies that have been written/spoken/posted anywhere have been proven, but they are always there for those who happen upon them looking for information on the case.  And of course there are those who are willing to add to those lies and speculation on a regular basis.  What astounds me about at least one of the known contributors to the misinformation is that she is a mother herself; of four children from what I've read.  I can't imagine what amount of money or favors would induce her to such venom.  Others, I'm not sure of, maybe just to be a part of something?  Some may hide behind screen names but their hatred and slander of a family in so much pain speaks volumes of the people they are.  God is a forgiving Father if they seek Him.  If not, I'm sure there will be a special place in hell for all of them and their lies. 

There was a request on Patrick van der Eems site for english translations; Patrick responded:

Nee, helaas, mijn Engels is ook niet zo heel erg goed en ik kan niet alles vertalen, want moet ook gewoon mijn bedrijf weer runnen. Als er belangrijk nieuws is dan zal ik kijken of ik het kan vertalen. Ik heb die automatische vertalingen gezien en die zijn echt siek; daar klopt niets van.

No, I'm sorry, my English isn't that great either and I can't translate everything, because I have to run a business also. If there is important news I'll see if I can translate it. I've also seen the translations (he means the google / babelvista ones) and they're awful.

And Texasmom & Buckeye; please read my posts with Janet concerning this (earlier in this thread). There is a copy here below but it might not look good because of the weird copy - pasting:


Hi Janet,
you asked for the things that make me wonder a bit sometimes. I gave you an example...that's all. I haven't thought of Beth / Natalee's family in any other way then they are the victims. To me it's about what happened to Natalee and who's responsible for what happened to her (I don't believe she committed suicide). Her family & friends deserve to know this & those responsible for her fate deserve to be held accountable for their actions.



GBMW .... I sincerely apologize if I over reacted.

Janet


The reaction came from the right perspective so you're forgiven 

I'm off to bed; it's 03:45 for me...bedtime! Luckily I don't have to get up early.

And I would like to add that I also believe that the people that helped with keeping things a secret should also be held accountable for their actions (even if they didn't do anything that specific night...

[Rob]

Guys, I have never seen the news coming this slow before or the forums posting this few pages. Is there anything going on or is this case actually closed?

My personal opinion is Mos has closed the case and he will do nothing more. Afterall, he has released all three as suspects.

I agree. That was the plan until Joraaan opened his big mouth and forced Aruba to act.... and then they didn't act.

case closed.

[Rob]

officially unofficially Joran got on the record the beach and away from his house. Sooo Machiavellian. He insulated his father and the crime scene.

hmmmm the KLPD didn't think the crime scene was the beach.

this is one diabolical element... and Aruba will never do anything to help Beth or Dave. The only hope is private citizens.

IF YOU CAN'T STAND UP FOR NATALEE - WHAT CAN YOU STAND UP FOR?

[wreck]

Guys, I have never seen the news coming this slow before or the forums posting this few pages. Is there anything going on or is this case actually closed?

My personal opinion is Mos has closed the case and he will do nothing more. Afterall, he has released all three as suspects.

I agree. That was the plan until Joraaan opened his big mouth and forced Aruba to act.... and then they didn't act.

case closed.

I agree -- I think they finally realized that Julia, MF, etc. are doing more harm than  good in the forums. I think they have all been ordered to just go "silent."